How Can We Wage War Against Allah?
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In my opinion (and not just my own but other people as well) this 841 doesn't speak about war at all, but about the profit. You should give to those categories 1/5th of your every profit.
There is no war, just self-defense. Under any circumstances it's not allowed to steal, rape, murder innocent people. How is this not common sense I do not get.
Peace.
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In my opinion (and not just my own but other people as well) this 841 doesn't speak about war at all, but about the profit. You should give to those categories 1/5th of your every profit.
There is no war, just self-defense. Under any circumstances it's not allowed to steal, rape, murder innocent people. How is this not common sense I do not get.
Peace.
And know that anything you obtain of war booty - then indeed, for Allah is one fifth of it and for the Messenger and for near relatives and the orphans, the needy, and the traveler, if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our Servant on the day of criterion - the day when the two armies met. And Allah , over all things, is competent.
But it's as clear as day that 1/5 of the profit is to be given to god...and this is when the quran doesn not make any sense at all
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My initial question hasn't been answered yet the discussion branches out to another (related) topic, which also interesting, as pointed out by kamenriderkiki )
His question is valid Why Allah would ask 20% commission fee on war profit?
It's as if saying "Hey it's my war, I should have at least 20% stake of profit from it.."Nonetheless..
The "20% stake" might be relevant 1400 years ago.. but it is not relevant now.
Because NOW.. war is a "Loss making" enterprises..It's costly and due to massive destruction capability of modern armament, there will not be any "profit" because many of the "spoil of war" is destroyed anyway after the war. Instead of "gaining" the winning party shall bear the responsibility of doing the "rebuilding" of the destroyed assets, which incur additional cost.
Back to the "Gimme 20%" verses
There is GREAT possibility that some verses were actually an "injected" verses during the book compilation. ON this verse it seems it was written to justify 20% poll tax on war booty / plunder of war. -
Hey Jafar
I'm beginning to think that the quran isn't even from the divine at all since there are many scientific inaccuracyIt seems that the verse that you're issuing is for the people back then since prophets don't exist today, if it's intended for the people in the 7th century then i don't think that the quran is universal or evolving from time to time like other people have said, hence...not perfect
Thus the quran is man made,just writings of someone's admiration of God in a book and using it for War purposes in the name of God...
No offence
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I'm beginning to think that the quran isn't even from the divine at all since there are many scientific inaccuracy
Very much possible
It seems that the verse that you're issuing is for the people back then since prophets don't exist today, if it's intended for the people in the 7th century then i don't think that the quran is universal or evolving from time to time like other people have said...
Based on it's content, the Quran is not universal (meanings applicable at any places and at any time)
Thus the quran is man made, someone's admiration of God, put it in a book, and using it for War purposes
Very much possible, and I've met some people who have arrived at the same conclusion...
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Thus the quran is man made,just writings of someone's admiration of God in a book and using it for War purposes in the name of God...
What if the "war purpose" parts are not saying what you imply but rather said something else?
It was someone with admiration of a pagan deity who interpreted Quran, but it was not the same person who authored it.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Guys,some of you are just mocking and making fun. Qoran is challenging you to study it in detail and see what you can find?
You seem to just take verses out of context and make up daft and isolated mistranslation of words and sentences.
Either study all of it, then bring your findings for us to check and discuss or leave Qoran well alone. You do not have to believe in it!
Jafar, Where does GOD say He wants 20%?
Karmen, be serious and make the effort to study the book from cover to cover. At least give it a go. You seem to have some hypotheses about Qoran from some misconceptions and mistranslations,and you are now looking for evidence to throw the bath water with the baby?
I am only asking you guys to be fair to Qoran,like you want fairness for your views/opinions!
The threads are getting silly and embarrassingly nonsensical?
But it is your choice guys.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Jafar, Where does GOD say He wants 20%?
Reposting kamenriderkiki
And know that anything you obtain of war booty - then indeed, for Allah is one fifth of itI'm not sure that it's God who said that, most definitely it's somebody posing as "God's authority / agent on earth" and are using God's name to get 20% of share.
Let me rephrase that
I'm CERTAIN that THE TRUE GOD DOES NOT NEED OR WANT OR ASK FOR 20% from War booty..I am only asking you guys to be fair to Qoran,like you want fairness for your views/opinions!
I don't see anyone treating the Quran unfairly here..
The threads are getting silly and embarrassingly nonsensical?
On contrary, I see people are starting to get objectively sensical about holy artifacts, including Quran.
Which is a good sign..And makes it clearer that God is the only source of guidance... and not some holy artifacts, holy places or holy books.
God bless you too.
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Peace Jafar.
Exactly my point. You are quoting what someone said about a verse.
Have you looked at the context with all the verses throughout Qoran? Have you checked it really means what you have backed up by your comments?
Jafar, if you are serious about finding out what Qoran really says, do the honest thing and study it from cover to cover ,then come back here and we will discuss any detail you wish to bring up.
Of course,it is your choice,but do not expect to be taken seriously if you believe "hearsay" about Qoran and take them as facts.
A book is not judged by how "holy" or how popular it is, or... But by its contents when they are analysed properly and fairly.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
The threads are getting silly and embarrassingly nonsensical?
But it is your choice guys.
GOD bless you.
Peace.I must admit that I am embarrassed by my involvement in this conversation.
Get well
@Jafar 8/41 simply means to share the spoils of war with a minimum of 20%
and to give zakat to "the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer."
(i.e., help folks)It's almost as if free-minds has disintegrated to the point of emptiness
with little to offer except doubt, logomachy, disbelief, misinformation,
stupidity, trolling, arrogance and the lack of intellectual integrity.God bless
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Peace Jafar
Have you looked at the context with all the verses throughout Qoran? Have you checked it really means what you have backed up by your comments?
Jafar, if you are serious about finding out what Qoran really says, do the honest thing and study it from cover to cover ,then come back here and we will discuss any detail you wish to bring up.Yes.. and how about you? have you checked?
The topic suddenly JUMPED on that SPECIFIC VERSE.
On the previous verses, the "You" was the "messenger".. the context was more of "encouragement" to the messenger to be "strong" in facing his enemy who are waging war against him.
On 43, the "You" seem to refer to someone else (not the messenger), with additional remark that 20% should go to Allah and then MESSENGER being explicitly mentioned...
Afterwards the mode of communication JUMPED BACK to "encouragement" where "you" refer to the messenger.
Of course,it is your choice,but do not expect to be taken seriously if you believe "hearsay" about Qoran and take them as facts.
And do not expect to be taken seriously either if you believe things which are said in your "holy book" you took them as a fact.
God bless you too..
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If we want to understand, gain the wisdom and knowledge by studying the Qur'an, then I suggest that we apply positive thinking (good thinking) toward the Creator, do not think bad/negative about God, do not have bad prejudice against your Master, be sincere in seeking the truth, and we should regard/value the messages in the Qur'an, do not underestimate those messages, and do not think that your knowledge is better (excel) than the messages that you could read in the Qur'an.
If you find something that confuse you in the Qur'an (or what you think seems wrong), then be patient, do not hurry to against/reject it, keep having good thinking toward your Rabb, and if you really want to know the true explanation, then you could humbly implore to Allah to grant you the understanding.
I felt the need to remind the readers here that applying positive (good) thinking toward your Creator and the Qur'an is necessary/important if you truly seek for guidance to the truth (to the right path). I hope those who truly have good heart will 'listen' to this.
Peace.
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@Jafar 8/41 simply means to share the spoils of war with a minimum of 20%
and to give zakat to "the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer."
(i.e., help folks)I'm sorry, but I doubted that the True God even asked for 20% "Heaven Tax" from spoils of war
But anyway it's irrelevant, as of to date there isn't any "Spoil of War" anyway..
Modern warfare is a loss making endeavor, the winner shall bear the burden of additional cost for rebuilding..
I found the "Geneva convention" (The treaties on Prisoner of War, Damages of War, Spoil of War and other related aspect of War) more "revealing" and more "humanely" compared to what's being written in the Holy Book titled Quran.
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I would remind people here that applying positive (good) thinking toward your Creator and the Qur'an is necessary/important if you truly seek for guidance to the truth (to the right path). I hope those who truly have good heart will listen to this.
Peace.
My Dear, the Quran is not a God..
A book or any artifacts can be written by human, and they claimed that it's being written by God.
However truth shall reveal itself and falsehood will be exposed...While the true guidance will come only from God..
The belief in any holy books is not required.... -
the Quran is not a God..
The Qur'an is not my God,
but because I believe that the Qur'an is from God, then I value the messages in the Qur'an highly.
I want to regard humbly to the messages (the lessons) that have shown to me by my Creator (my Teacher).
The messages have reached me, I have to be grateful.
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My Dear, the Quran is not a God..
A book or any artifacts can be written by human, and they claimed that it's being written by God.
However truth shall reveal itself and falsehood will be exposed...While the true guidance will come only from God..
The belief in any holy books is not required....Sanity and rationality is important, being an "authentic" source or not. You are right. One should take a narrative for how much sense it actually makes. If a text approves that a person, be it in the 7th century AD or not, takes spoil in warfare, then this (interpretation) cannot be from God. If a text says, "kill them wherever you find them", then this text cannot be from God. If a text says "kill them unless they perform and give ", then this text cannot be from God. If a text says "if she is disobedient then beat her", then this text is not from God. I could go on, but you all probably get my point.
(and I do not claim that the scripture says the above, it was a hypothetical example)
Be safe
Amenuel -
If we want to understand, gain the wisdom and knowledge by studying the Qur'an,
then I suggest that we apply positive thinking (good thinking) toward the Creator,
do not think bad/negative about God, do not have bad prejudice against your Master,
be sincere in seeking the truth, and we should regard/value the messages in the Qur'an,
do not underestimate those messages, and do not think that your knowledge is better
(excel) than the messages that you could read in the Qur'an.If you find something that confuse you in the Qur'an (or what you think seems wrong),
then be patient, do not hurry to against/reject it, keep having good thinking toward
your Rabb, and if you really want to know the true explanation, then you could
humbly implore to Allah to grant you the understanding.I felt the need to remind the readers here that applying positive (good) thinking
toward your Creator and the Qur'an is necessary/important if you truly seek for
guidance to the truth (to the right path). I hope those who truly have good heart
will 'listen' to this.Peace.
Excellent.
@ JavaLatte, Non-believers do not state that they are so they hide (kufr), behind words.
and argue against Allah and his book. It is for believers to call them what they are
thereby exposing them. In this forum there are many kaffirs who deny salat, hajj,
Quran, Allah, Muhammad.I'm sorry, but I doubted that the True God even asked for 20% "Heaven Tax" from spoils of war)
Peace Jafar
6/114 "Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed
to you the Book explained in detail?" And those to whom We
gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth,
so never be among the doubters.Sorry Man of Faith, but your disbelieve is apparent and you have no value
for guidance only misguidance.God bless
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Peace Jafar
6/114 "Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed
to you the Book explained in detail?" And those to whom We
gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth,
so never be among the doubters.Oh yes I doubted holy book, any holy books..
And my Lord will not even asked "why", because He already knows about it.
Even before I was born.. He already knows about it..
And the True God doesn't require me to believe in any man written book (or holy places, or holy idol, or holy artifacts)I will doubted the "Book of the Dead" when I was born in Ancient Egyptian context too..
Thus I believe my attitude is quite consistent.. regardless of the context.Plus I'm not hiding anything... (as such is the true meaning of the word "Kufr"..
As I believe the truth doesn't need any protection, it will reveal itself.. it just need to be told..Now can we stop this "Ad Hominem" attack and return back to the topic?
My question hasn't been answered..
How should we wage war against Allah?- What are the first steps?
- What is the stage or criteria to be fulfilled to meet the state of "I/We already waged war against Allah" as such subject to the gruesome punishment of painful.. and sloooowww death through crucifixion.
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Oh yes I doubted holy book, any holy books..
Now can we stop this "Ad Hominem" attack and return back to the topic?
Peace Jafar, the Quran is not referring to other holy books only the Quran.
Stop Ad Hominem attacks ??? attacking a position is not an Ad Hominem attack. nopeGod bless
peace
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Sorry Man of Faith, but your disbelieve is apparent and you have no value
for guidance only misguidance.Thanks hawk99. Your choice who to follow, deluded clerical figures from medieval times with their own agenda or me who has no real agenda.
What do I disbelieve in anyway? Can you not be more specific?
Why did you address me anyway? Do you not think I already understand my guidance has no value to you? Redundancy check.
Get well
Amenuel