Why were we created?
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Who says?
7143
So when Moses came to Our appointed time, and his Lord spoke to him, he said ?My Lord, let me look upon you.? He said ?You will not see Me, but look upon the mountain, if it stays in its place then you will see Me.? So when his Lord revealed Himself to the mountain, He caused it to crumble; thus Moses fell unconscious. When he awoke, he said ?Glory to You, I repent to You and I am the first of those who believe.? -
Peace OnlyOneGod.
Do you mean to ask this question;
Why were we created as humans?Or do you mean why us,the animals and all other creations on earth and elsewhere were created?
Notice how the choice is limited to all the creation. You find yourself a human and you have no choice but to accept and live this life as a human.
The creator has sent a message to explain your role. He has also explained that you have to earn your salvation why?. You are going back to Him to account for this life ,why?
Surely there must be a good reason !!!!.
He said "There was a feud between the various subjects before this creation". i.e before He sent us here on earth as humans. He says this is our final chance to redeem ourselves back to GOD s kingdom,why?
Surely there must be a very good reason, for someone like the creator ( Study all His attributes and see) to give us this chance.
Now ,study Qoran and see if you can find your answers there?
I believe the Creator. I trust the Creator, I have confidence in the Creator...etc.
I am satisfied with His explanations in His message(Qoran).
You ,I and all the humans were created to make up their minds. GOD or others?
If you decide to accept GOD Alone,you will be redeemed back to His kingdom.GOD bless you.
Peace."If you decide to accept GOD Alone,you will be redeemed back to His kingdom."
Sounds a lot like what the bible thumpers say, believe in Jesus and all your sins will be wiped out.
But why believe in this without absolute proof? Why create us as creatures of reasoning and intellect but then ask us to abandon all of that when believing in God and his message? The whole human trial on earth seems unjust to me. Allah says throughout the Quran that I am the most just and the most merciful. Since Allah (swt) is the most just, then our trial must also be based on justice. How can a trial based on blind faith be considered just? Hence my query, why were we created?
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7143
So when Moses came to Our appointed time, and his Lord spoke to him, he said ?My Lord, let me look upon you.? He said ?You will not see Me, but look upon the mountain, if it stays in its place then you will see Me.? So when his Lord revealed Himself to the mountain, He caused it to crumble; thus Moses fell unconscious. When he awoke, he said ?Glory to You, I repent to You and I am the first of those who believe.?And from this we get God is the destroyer of planets?
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But why believe in this without absolute proof?
Peace OnlyOneGod, what would you consider absolute proof?
Why create us as creatures of reasoning and intellect but then ask us to abandon all of that when believing in God and his message?
Sorry OnlyOneGod but it was my intellect and reasoning that makes me a believer
The whole human trial on earth seems unjust to me.
This is your understanding at the moment, keep observing, thinking, and listening.
Allah says throughout the Quran that I am the most just and the most merciful. Since Allah (swt) is the most just, then our trial must also be based on justice.
True
How can a trial based on blind faith be considered just? Hence my query, why were we created?
Your misunderstanding leads to such a conclusion.
God bless you
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Peace OnlyOneGod, what would you consider absolute proof?
Sorry OnlyOneGod but it was my intellect and reasoning that makes me a believer
This is your understanding at the moment, keep observing, thinking, and listening.
True
Your misunderstanding leads to such a conclusion.
God bless you
"Peace OnlyOneGod, what would you consider absolute proof"
Peace Hawk99, Absolute proof is what God has bestowed on his bellowed angels.
"Sorry OnlyOneGod but it was my intellect and reasoning that makes me a believer"
I do not doubt that ... but what baout the vast humanity whose reasoning and intellect does not guide them in the same way? Did God create them with an inferior intellect or do you think they are being dishonest about their beliefs?
"This is your understanding at the moment, keep observing, thinking, and listening."
I always do ... somehow my observations and thinking lead me towards doubt. Maybe its something about me, but God knows better.
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"If you decide to accept GOD Alone,you will be redeemed back to His kingdom."
How can a trial based on blind faith be considered just? Hence my query, why were we created?
Quran is actually against blind faith. Quran is against believing. It's about self-realisation. To connect with the Rabb(salat) and establish the Rabb's system(deen).This is what it actually means by "only Allah can guide". You can't guide yourself or another human. Islam, Christianity, Judaism and all religions seek to passing your beliefs to your children so they become "good practising". You cannot "convert" someone to the right path as these religions do. Religion is a trap. It gives the illusion of righteousness. They BELIEVE they are on the right path and serve the Rabb. Fact is, they do not even know the Rabb, The Source Of Knowledge, Teacher and Creator AKA Allah. Atheism is a different side of the same coin. They too do not know the Rabb. They BELIEVE there is no Creator. They are all unaware of themselves.
"And be not like those who forgot Allah; and He made them forget their own souls! Such are the rebellious transgressors!" (5919)
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Peace Hawk99, Absolute proof is what God has bestowed on his bellowed angels.
And what would that absolute proof be that was bestowed on his angels.
"Sorry OnlyOneGod but it was my intellect and reasoning that makes me a believer"
I do not doubt that ... but what baout the vast humanity whose reasoning and intellect does not guide them in the same way? Did God create them with an inferior intellect or do you think they are being dishonest about their beliefs?
I suppose there are many reasons, since there are many who make up humanity.
"This is your understanding at the moment, keep observing, thinking, and listening."
I always do ... somehow my observations and thinking lead me towards doubt. Maybe its something about me, but God knows better.
Peace OnlyOneGod be patient with yourself, some questions may take years to
answer, try not to draw premature conclusions (doubt is a conclusion).Indeed God knows best
peace
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And from this we get God is the destroyer of planets?
Well not exactly sure, just quoting what the other comment might have gotten that notion from. Although the events of the Last Day would suggest to something of that nature. Wouldn't you say?
The creation, at least in this present state would "crumble" ( fall in absolute humility) in awe of its Creator's Glory. -
Well not exactly sure, just quoting what the other comment might have gotten that notion from. Although the events of the Last Day would suggest to something of that nature. Wouldn't you say?
The creation, at least in this present state would "crumble" ( fall in absolute humility) in awe of its Creator's Glory.But it is a big leap from the verse to the planet destroying conclusion isn't it?
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I am fearful now that I have in this forum said about God what I do not know. And I seek refuge in my Lord lest I be among the losers.
Herman, I don't think you've done anything wrong. You were trying to find a textual basis for someone else's position, you didn't ram anything down anyone's throat or purposefully try to deceive anyone.
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That is quite misleading. The creation is a contradiction and not meant to be indulged in. One is not meant to be a Homo Sapiens but better than that.
That does not mean one has to become murderous towards the Body, but they must treat it as an animal and use wisdom in feeding and treating it. If it gets to choose itself then it will cause internal conflicts. It is like placing a neanderthal man in charge of a nuclear power plant with crucial controls he must use in order to operate the plant.
Be safe
AmenuelThanks for making it more clear. D
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I do not think there is such division body and what else? YOu or some peole may havve a problem with self division, I know that may well be possible, but that is by no means a universal trait. We ar a unit not a mismatched assemblage.
It would be useful if you are propound that schizofrenia as a nature of human beings that you bring some Qur'anic quotes that upphold such a thing.
The boy is no more sinful than the mind of the heart all of themcan be deluded, absolutely deluded, and may be the worse delusion is that of the "higher" understnadings. People who have absolute comand of their bodies can be absolute igs or shaytans, deluded by a false moral superiority.
I do have a deep distrust of people who disdain matter and the body- Usually, sooner or later they tur out to be absolute moral aqnd spiritually misfits, but they are delluded and full of pride.
Youmay say for instance that fat people are lead by their bodies, they crave for food and cannot keep themselves fromit. That is too bd for hem, relly. But there are peolequite able to control their bodies and they indulge and crave in siritual poison, thinking they are getting where other people don't. They arento fat but they may wellbe in the darkest hole. Give me fat people any time before those deluded.
Please bring proof from the Qur'an of what you say about divorce between body and the rest,and what that rest is.
Salaam
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Give me fat people any time before those deluded.
That was quite simply the best quote I've read here in quite some time. Wholeheartedly agree with the post too. -
Huruf,
I could bring you clear proof, but you would likely argue something else concerning the segments of text.
This body of ours is NOT something permanent to us but it is a temporary habitat, unless we incline towards its primate drive because then we would stay within this little bubble called Gehannom and get further assimilated with it. It is obviously your and everyone else's choice what to do. But each person deserves proper information at least.
One who is to be successful should not give in to their Body. For this reason the 'Ten Commandments' (the teachings of Torah) were given to us. Why do you think they were given? Each line of the "decree" contains parameters to avoid succumbing to its instinctive drive. Themselves they are called "stumbling blocks", i.e what causes someone to fall.
I know you disbelieve in the Biblical gospels, but one indication they are ambiguous is since Jesus/Isa/Jesua elaborated upon them and showed how one should perceive them, clearly showing one's must to control themselves. "Do not even be angry with your brother" instead of do not kill is one example.
Satan = the instinct of the primate species we are within
And there are no Jinn either. This is referring to the bodily.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Salam hanslan, I appreciate your input on the subject.
I do accept that we all have roles to play in this life. However my query relates to the WHY of it all. I guess I can break it down into the following
-Why create man and send him to earth?
-why send us and then wipe all memory of heaven from us?
-Why ask us to believe in one God, one religion (amongst hundreds) and then not show absolute clear proof of Gods own existence to mankind. Would be much easier to refrain from haram if we all had undisputed proof of Gods existence. No more atheists either!
-Why ask us to believe in Islam when Allah himself says in the Quran that "if I wanted all of mankind to believe, I would make them believe" (not an exact quote from the Quran, but words to that effect)God allowed the creation of hundreds of religions, with many similarities and many differences, now we are told to choose the correct one or we burn in hell for eternity. And not just choose the correct religion but choose the correct version of that religion amongst hundreds of interpretations of that religion. Seems a bit unfair to be honest.
Salam OnlyOneGod. I am going to answer you base on my understanding of the Quran so far.
-Why create man and send him to earth?
To be the Creator's viceroy on earth. To develop ourselves into a higher state (the perfect human / insanul kamil/ god like state) as opposed to the animal state we were created from in a short life time despite the memory wipe imposed (other beings live longer but are fully developed creations).
-why send us and then wipe all memory of heaven from us?
The Creator entrusted us with roles & purpose to develop ourselves in our own way confined within the earth/stage set by the Creator. If our memory was not wiped, there is no need for self development ie we probably are fully developed/finished product. Other creatures are created fully developed i.e. their roles do not expand further.
The main challenge for us and the trust given to us is in the form of the memory wipe ie can humans achieve optimum role/purpose despite the wipe?. Thus the different levels of heaven for different level of achievers.-Why ask us to believe in one God, one religion (amongst hundreds) and then not show absolute clear proof of Gods own existence to mankind.
Would be much easier to refrain from haram if we all had undisputed proof of Gods existence. No more atheists either!Absolute clear proof is given but it is our choice to take and reflect on it i.e. it does not take a rocket scientist to prove the existence of God but the fact that something exist must have a creator to create it but this becomes too simplistic for some hence the need for more evidence, religions, believes, systems etc whereupon the Creator said to the effect 'if everything is reveal now then the end has come'. Hence the concept of religion and god is a creation of man due to many reasons mostly for power over human kind. If we come to the right conclusion, if majority of humans come to the right conclusion by studying and living by the Quran (although everyone can have different levels of understanding) then human kind will be free from religion and realises that every single thing we do is for the creator given that we are just performing our roles and commitments.
What is haram in the Quran is clearly stated and if leads to confusion then it is considered not a clear prohibition - again the choice is personal. Personally I find very little that is explicitly haram in the Quran.
The many and countless harams may have come from the crusades when King Richard went to see Salehuddin and discovered a room full of women to that Salehuddin said 'haram' to King Richard! Hence 'haram' became 'harem' due to pronunciation but with different meanings. Seriously, the many and countless harams came from men.
-Why ask us to believe in Islam when Allah himself says in the Quran that "if I wanted all of mankind to believe, I would make them believe" (not an exact quote from the Quran, but words to that effect)
Humans were given the trust to uphold their commitments and develop their roles/purpose despite being wipe of memory and as reward the chance to develop oneself to an elevated station where no other sits. No one is given a free ride!Personally, I no longer ask the question 'why were we created' although at one point I was also like you. The answer that came was due to the attributes depicted by the names ArRahman and ArRahim. The two attributes were the reason for creation whilst all the drama and storyline are coming from other attributes of the Creator. Thus I wonder, when the Creator refer to 'we' does it refer to other attributes rather than referring to god and the angels. Thus, the exact nature of our Creator is a mystery because we are just a manifestation of the Creator's attributes.
Peace All.
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Huruf,
I could bring you clear proof, but you would likely argue something else concerning the segments of text.
This body of ours is NOT something permanent to us but it is a temporary habitat, unless we incline towards its primate drive because then we would stay within this little bubble called Gehannom and get further assimilated with it. It is obviously your and everyone else's choice what to do. But each person deserves proper information at least.
One who is to be successful should not give in to their Body. For this reason the 'Ten Commandments' (the teachings of Torah) were given to us. Why do you think they were given? Each line of the "decree" contains parameters to avoid succumbing to its instinctive drive. Themselves they are called "stumbling blocks", i.e what causes someone to fall.
I know you disbelieve in the Biblical gospels, but one indication they are ambiguous is since Jesus/Isa/Jesua elaborated upon them and showed how one should perceive them, clearly showing one's must to control themselves. "Do not even be angry with your brother" instead of do not kill is one example.
Satan = the instinct of the primate species we are within
And there are no Jinn either. This is referring to the bodily.
Be safe
AmenuelYou have repeated yourself but have brought no new insight or argument into your own statements about the sepaartio between body and whatever else.
And the peak of cheek, excuse, is that you say you do not bring proof because I
"would likely argue something else concerning the segments of text."
In fact I asked you to support your statements abut the body ad its relation with whtever else with quotes from the Qur'an. Have you trasformed that request into mere "proof", eliminating the Qur'an altogether?
s to what I would do, my God, do youwnat peoplle now to say amen to whatever, or do you suspect outright bad faith in me. Not that that would afect me, but have the honesty of bringing proper justifications (if it is that you atemted) and not mere excuses for ot doing what is requested of you to uphold what you uphold.
As to the gospels, som parables are very good, but nothing to be compared to the Qur'an. And parrticularly concenring the body there might be too much connection between what you extract from th egosels and certain strain of christianism really demented concerning the body and its evilness.
Please read again my revious message, you have nnot nswered it.
Salaam
Salaam
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Peace OnlyOneGod.
For me the answer is in your forum name. "OnlyOneGod or many gods? We have to choose!
Now, hanslan has given you some interesting answers. I happen to agree with most of what was said in that post.
Hope you clear up the query and keep being loyal to your creator.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
And what would that absolute proof be that was bestowed on his angels.
The fact that they can see him and thus be absolutely sure of his existence.
I suppose there are many reasons, since there are many who make up humanity.
Then why are those reasons not accommodated for when the Quran talks about the end times and hell for the disbelievers?
Peace OnlyOneGod be patient with yourself, some questions may take years to answer, try not to draw premature conclusions (doubt is a conclusion).
I am patient. To be honest, even though I have yet to understand the overarching philosophy behind our creation, I have not found a religion that matches Islam in its logic and humanity.
Indeed God knows best
Peace be upon all.