Do we need books to believe in God?
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Peace.
While I agree with some of what jafar has said, GOD sends "words/scripture/..." to teach us and guide us
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Then, Adam received from his Lord words, whereby He redeemed him. He is the Redeemer, Most Merciful.So the fact remains we have a "book" from GOD, regardless .
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace.
While I agree with some of what jafar has said, GOD sends "words/scripture/..." to teach us and guide us
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Then, Adam received from his Lord words, whereby He redeemed him. He is the Redeemer, Most Merciful.So the fact remains we have a "book" from GOD, regardless .
GOD bless you.
Peace.Peace good logic,
But for those multitudes of people who were not exposed to the Qur'an Jafar's comments do ring true do they not?
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Peace,
Folks believe in God and believe that Jesus is God or God is nature or
God and the devil are equal or that God needs people to sacrifice virgins
or children or the sun is God or pharaoh is God and many other
misconceptions about God.Reason for the quran To correct misconceptions and to guide.
16/63 By Allah, most certainly We sent (messengers) to nations before
you, but the Shaitan made their deeds fair-seeming to them, so he is
their guardian today, and they shall have a painful punishment.16/64 And We have not revealed to you the Book except that you may
make clear to them that about which they differ, and (as) a guidance
and a mercy for a people who believe.Ex. to the Jews Yes, Jesus is indeed the messiah, To the Christians
No, Jesus is not Allah,to the christians will you reject Muhammad as
the jews rejected Jesus?When this scripture came to them from GOD, and even though
it agrees with, and confirms what they have, and even though they
used to prophesy its advent when they talked with the disbelievers,
when their own prophecy came to pass, they disbelieved therein.
GOD's condemnation thus afflicts
the disbelievers.Quran The Ultimate Reference
Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous
scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance
with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the
truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different
rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He
thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you.
You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny?all of you?
then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.God bless
peace
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Peace Osman.
Past people are not our concern. They were exposed to other messages?GOD knows about them and will deal with them with justice. Since Adam,GOD has been sending messages with messengers? We cannot comment as we do not know what they received?
We live in the present and We have Qoran.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Osman.
Past people are not our concern. They were exposed to other messages?GOD knows about them and will deal with them with justice. Since Adam,GOD has been sending messages with messengers? We cannot comment as we do not know what they received?
We live in the present and We have Qoran.
GOD bless you.
Peace.There are many people right here right now, billions in fact who have not been exposed.
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There are many people right here right now, billions in fact who have not been exposed.
Yet they received much better guidance..
Native Islander Homer, why are you building a chapel?
Homer Because you are all terrible sinners.
Native Islander Since when?
Homer Since I got here. Now either grab a stone or go to Hell.
(Natives panic and rush to build the chapel.)
-- Homer Simpson, Missionary Impossible Episode -
Peace Osman.
"666" is with us. There will not be a single person who will not have the "internet" in a bit!
By the way "666" is "www" in Arabic .The value of w -waw in Arabic- in abjad "old numbers" is 6.
Of course billions will ignore. That I agree with.
Also for your information,I was in Africa a couple of years ago,I met this tribe called "Tuareg" in the sahara,. One of the sheperds had a mobile phone,he was using the internet to track down the weather to check where the rain was falling. I thought where is he getting the signal from? And he has never been educated .They do not even have a village.They live as nomads in tents and move about with their livestock. However,now days Education is slowly reaching all these places on earth slowly but surely.
GOD knows His message is going to go universal.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Good logic,
Also for your information,I was in Africa a couple of years ago,I met this tribe called "Tuareg" in the sahara,. One of the sheperds had a mobile phone,he was using the internet to track down the weather to check where the rain was falling. I thought where is he getting the signal from? And he has never been educated .They do not even have a village.They live as nomads in tents and move about with their livestock. However,now days Education is slowly reaching all these places on earth slowly but surely.
GOD knows His message is going to go universal.
GOD bless you.
Peace.So by saying this you mean that the Qur'an has reached everyone on Earth?
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Peace Osman.
That is "GOD s knowledge territory". How can I ever possibly know that?
There will always be infants whose life has been ,short,or people born with disability to process/learn/take in info...etc
However, GOD knows to whom and how He delivers His message and why!
I know on the day of judgement ,such people ( who are the category you mention and the category I mention) i.e people of "Aaraf",those who did not get a chance to receive the message,will be spared judgement( Nothing to be judged for). They will be told " Udkhulu Aljannata la khawfun alaikum..." "Enter paradise,you have nothing to fear....
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Even with Quran at hand, people have been misguided to a point where they revere the book for reasons they don't really understand, and base their understanding of islam in the exactly opposite direction. Of course the majority of people are lazy, ignorant, and they just go with the flow. What would happen without a book? We don't know since the book exists, it can't be undone.
Quran is for those who choose knowledge to beliefs. It is a great source to fall back to. Thanks to this book, we are able to get rid of 1400 years of accumulated ignorance simply by using our brains, and studying it with an objective mindset.
So, yes, we need "the book" to understand the concept of Abraham's Monotheism, and acknowledge the Oneness God, however we don't need books to believe in "gods".
The message is for every one of us, but the majority in a grand scale will not try to understand it.
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Even with Quran at hand, people have been misguided to a point where they revere the book for reasons they don't really understand, and base their understanding of islam in the exactly opposite direction. Of course the majority of people are lazy, ignorant, and they just go with the flow. What would happen without a book? We don't know since the book exists, it can't be undone.
Quran is for those who choose knowledge to beliefs. It is a great source to fall back to. Thanks to this book, we are able to get rid of 1400 years of accumulated ignorance simply by using our brains, and studying it with an objective mindset.
So, yes, we need "the book" to understand the concept of Abraham's Monotheism, and acknowledge the Oneness God, however we don't need books to believe in "gods".
The message is for every one of us, but the majority in a grand scale will not try to understand it.
Merhaba Ahmet,
Free-Minds foruma ho geldiniz.
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Even with Quran at hand, people have been misguided to a point where they revere the book for reasons they don't really understand, and base their understanding of islam in the exactly opposite direction. Of course the majority of people are lazy, ignorant, and they just go with the flow. What would happen without a book? We don't know since the book exists, it can't be undone.
You are better off without a holy book than one with false interpretations."Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."(2244). This verse seems to advocate for violence but it isn't rocket science to figure out that it has been interpreted by Muslims to support their violent and oppressive behaviour.
"Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know."(2216)
What kind of God would advocate for violence and bloodshed? Keeping in mind that the Quran is a GUIDE, this verse contradicts the system of GOD(deen). Violence is polar opposite to the system of GOD(deen). Caring for every human is part of GOD's system(deen), not killing. You cannot guide someone to GOD using swords, bombs or bullets."Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah?"(476)
So if you believe, you must fight."I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" (812)
No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle."Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."(929)
The above emphatically exhorts Muslims to conquer all non-Muslims until they pay a sum of money (Jizya) as a sign of their subjection and humiliation. Note, this is a mainstream interpretation and translation.Quran has been hijacked by pagans known as Muslims. Hijack, corrupt and kill is the motto of religion. Religion cannot exists without shoving it down peoples throats and killing them if they leave the religion, something the pagan cult of Islam has been doing for the past 1400 years.
Control through fear. Threats of death and hell for just using your intellect the Creator gifted you with. You must shut down your senses, not ask any questions and become a herded sheep AKA the Ummah of Islam.If you are self-aware, use your intellect and establish contact(salat) with the Creator, you will be guided and know to take care of fellow humans and not kill. This is the system of GOD(deen).
So, yes, we need "the book" to understand the concept of Abraham's Monotheism, and acknowledge the Oneness God, however we don't need books to believe in "gods".
No you don't. Abraham managed to become self-aware and know the Creator simply using his intellect the Creator gifted him with. You do not need a holy book to become self-aware, establish contact(Salat) and live by the decreed system of GOD(deen) by not causing corruption, oppression or bloodshed.
"Whatever of good reaches you, is from GOD, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself. And We have sent you as a messenger to mankind, and GOD is Sufficient as a Witness." (479)
We can accept the Rabb's system(deen), take care of fellow humans and thrive as a whole OR we can reject it and destroy ourselves. This is the true meaning of the above verse. Look at the state the world is in now. War, poverty, slavery and terrorism." Salat keeps one away from indecency and evil. It is the greatest act of worshiping GOD. GOD knows what you do."(2945)
Establishing contact(salat) with the Creator prevents you from committing evil. Without salat, you cannot establish the system of (GOD). Salat isn't what the cult of Islam claims it to be. Salat has nothing to do with worshiping a stone cube 5 times a day and performing braindead, robotic physical movements.The message is for every one of us, but the majority in a grand scale will not try to understand it.
Quran has loads of good stuff in it. You should never swallow any interpretation of the Quran though. Rather use your intellect the Creator gifted you with and ponder upon it.
Muslims don't seem to care. For them, to read the Quran is to sing it out loud with a melody. Singing the Quran with an East Asian scale is considered blasphemy and get you condemned by religious scholars. Jafar posted this earlier. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608039.msg379726#msg379726Like receiving a text message with important instructions and you then turn the message into a song. How stupid does that sound? You're meant to read it, ponder and reflect on the message, not sing while performing braindead physical rituals. Muslims have also spread false interpretations of the Quran and covered the truth up(kufr). This won't last forever. The pagan cult of Islam will come to an end and the truth shall be accepted.
"We bring forward the Truth to crush and destroy falsehood; it is doomed to be banished. Woe to you for that which you ascribe!"(211 -
Short answer no, however they are a guidance and a healing for believers and God
says that the believers will accept the books of God, and only the disbelievers reject them.Agreed
Quran is for those who choose knowledge to beliefs. It is a great source to fall back to.
Thanks to this book, we are able to get rid of 1400 years of accumulated ignorance
simply by using our brains, and studying it with an objective mindset.So, yes, we need "the book" to understand the concept of Abraham's Monotheism,
and acknowledge the Oneness God, however we don't need books to believe in "gods".The message is for every one of us, but the majority in a grand scale will not try
to understand it.Well said
peace
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You are better off without a holy book than one with false interpretations."Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."(2244). This verse seems to advocate for violence but it isn't rocket science to figure out that it has been interpreted by Muslims to support their violent and oppressive behaviour.
This is a favorite verse for people who (a) want to use religion for their sick agendas, (b) want to disgrace islam. It is a part of a two verse message, and the first part is almost always dropped, so that it remains with no context. Here is how it goes
2243 Did you not see those who left their homes in groups, all the while they were fearful of death; so God said to them "Die," then He resurrected them. God has bestowed a great grace over the people, but most of the people are not thankful.
2244 And fight in the cause of God and know that God is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.
It is a verse taken out of the context of the whole book, and the whole idea of islam. What I understand from this, fighting for God means fighting against oppression. It never says attack like wild dogs, it always says fight against oppression to me. The book could be interpreted in many ways, which Quran also mentions. Those who don't have disease in their hearts will think, and find the best meaning among them, however they will accept all the meanings are sent from God. So I guess you pick the meaning you want, and live with it. If a person has agendas, he will find a way to do it, with or without the book. I don't think a book can make a person good or evil.
I will continue later on, I've got to run now
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It is a verse taken out of the context of the whole book, and the whole idea of islam. What I understand from this, fighting for God means fighting against oppression.
Nothing is taken out of context. There are several verses in the Quran that have been falsely interpreted to advocating violence despite the fact that it is meant to be a guide that brings you closer to your Creator.
It never says attack like wild dogs, it always says fight against oppression to me.
"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds and beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means For Allah is Most High, Great."(434)
Beating a woman is fighting oppression?
The book could be interpreted in many ways, which Quran also mentions. Those who don't have disease in their hearts will think, and find the best meaning among them, however they will accept all the meanings are sent from God. So I guess you pick the meaning you want, and live with it. If a person has agendas, he will find a way to do it, with or without the book.
Agree.
I don't think a book can make a person good or evil.
Quran can make a good person better and a bad person worse.
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Hi All.
Some of you may mean,you do not need a book. like this
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT6qWghHkFI
For me that miracle is Qoran. Qoran does that to the true believer. And of course there is no miracle without GOD.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Nothing is taken out of context. There are several verses in the Quran that have been falsely interpreted to advocating violence despite the fact that it is meant to be a guide that brings you closer to your Creator.
"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds and beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means For Allah is Most High, Great."(434)
Beating a woman is fighting oppression?
This exact verse was one of the major reasons I lost interest in Quran a few years ago. No matter how I looked at it, it didn't make sense with the overall concept of Islam. It wasn't my only problem with the book, or I should rather say the translations. 434 was the first one in my list though. Talking to the spouse, and then separating beds are rational, however beating is not, it is weakness, opposite of peaceful. Somehow I knew this verse was fishy, just like any other verse about women. After a couple of months of break, I started searching for an answer, a proper translation, and found quite a few.
Here's one
434 The men are to support the women by what God has gifted them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The reformed women are devotees and protectors of privacy what God has protected. As for those women from whom you fear disloyalty, then you shall advise them, abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate them; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great.
Here is the foot note from the authors regarding "iDRiBuhunna", which have been translated as "beat" in many traditional translations
The second key word that is commonly mistranslated is iDRiBuhunna. In almost all translations, you will see it translated as "scourge," or "beat" or "beat (lightly)". The verb DaRaBa is a multiple-meaning verb akin to English ?strike? or ?get.? The Quran uses the same verb with various meanings, such as, to travel, to get out (3156; 4101; 3844; 7320; 2273), to strike (260; 7160; 812; 2077; 2431; 2663; 3793; 474), to beat (850), to beat or regret (4727), to set up (4358; 5713), to give (examples) (1424; 1675; 1832; 2435; 3028; 3678; 3927; 4317; 5921; 6610), to take away, to ignore (435), to condemn (261), to seal, to draw over (1811), to cover (2431), and to explain (1317). It is again interesting that the scholars pick the meaning BEAT, among the many other alternatives, when the relationship between man and woman is involved, a relationship that is defined by the Quran with mutual love and care (3021).
Now DaRaBa is a word with 10+ meanings in in Arabic. Of course you (not you ) would pick "beat" if you wanted to enslave women, and bury them alive in black cloth to keep them on leash, and marry a new one every 10 years to be able to feed your lust for younger meat. As Quran states, I understand that beating is one of the meanings of the verse, and I understand that it is not a meaning meant for me, and I denied all translations of the book until I found some people who chose not to betray their intelligence.
Here's my 2 cents on Quran. If you read something, and it doesn't make sense to you, it is probably messed up by a sectarian scholar. Try harder, and you'll find that there is a proper meaning to it. If you can't decide, skip it until the day it reveals itself in a proper way. Do not make a decision on that particular verse.
About the book making bad people worse, I still disagree. It's not the book, it's men submitting other men. Those people you mentioned, they do not read Quran to understand it anyways, they follow clergymen who tells them what the book means. I wouldn't blame any book.
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The aya is not talking about spouses, bu about men and women ing eneral and isnot addressed to any husbands but to the believers in general.They are general injunctions as to the functions of males and females as such, and the daraba part refers to women, not to wives, and of course it does notmean beat t all but to do something effective in order to prevent women who re in danger of disgracing themselves to do so. Read that part and connect it with aya 4.15, where it speaks about women who y'atina el fahisha and see whether it does notmatch prostitution.and it commands to settle them in the houses, not to imprison thembut to collect to settlethemin the houses. Where are they so tht you shoult put hemin the houses? In the street?
In 4.34, there is no beating of course becase besides nobody has broken anything, it says if you fear somethig not that something has happened and like all the ayas in that sura and that part of the sura it deals with shocial mattersnot with criminal matters. It is providing for social welfare not for punishments.
Salaam