Doha Debates: Should Arab Women Have Full Equality As Arab Men?

FreedomStands

I will agree. Get ride of religion for a peaceful planet.

Maybe get rid of humans and weather and all life forms and seismic activity, I guess the whole planet might have to go too.

Humans fight humans, they find any reason to fight. Religion, Politics, Resources, whatever it might be, often religion is merely an excuse in larger battles, but on the immediate level of interpersonal relationships it can cause a great deal of trouble between people.

Man_of_Faith

So it goes when you place a potent being into a neanderthal body. Ha ha...

Be well

FindingRightPathToAllah

Peace,

From what I have seen, most women themselves don't want freedom and equality, and the minority ones, who want it, in return get told to be like them, to compromise, called rebellious, etc by the same majority women who could care less about their own rights.

The Mainstream Islam teaches Husband Comes Right After God and all sort of opressed rule for women. So most women don't care and even if some do, they fear that they will go to hell if they say or do anything. I know girls who aren't even allowed to watch shows in their own houses. So forget about even leaving house to go somewhere without their husband or more like without their in-laws permission, and this is happening here in USA. Where as, the husband has friends outside, will watch all kind of shows, and do everything, but the same won't be allowed for the wife by the same husband using islam (Sunni islam) as an excuse.

But then I shouldn't care since it's these women themselves who don't say anything or will rarely say anything except the few women who really can't do anything and helpless. If it was because men won't listen to them, then how come they haven't done the same to me? My grandfather, father, uncles, etc are the same way, but they never stopped me and always trusted me to go out, spend my nights in trips, etc mostly because they always thought I was never interested into guys, Fashion, was super religious, etc. Or, may be I just got lucky when it came to such matters from men. In fact, they always encouraged me. Very rarely they have said anything to me or put any restrictions on me. Of course, they didnt give all sorts of freedom but way more than others were allowed to and just what I needed as I wasn't interested in more either when I didn't need. Thank God for that. Even if if they did tried to stop me, they knew I was stubborn and wouldn't have listened to them as they had always said. Instead, it's always the women who tried to stop me. I lost three years of my school because of one.

What I am just saying is that if most women want any freedom or any rights in these arab states, then they should say something but most women don't from my experiences with such women. So, I really don't know if I should feel bad for them. I am, however, concerned over those who genuinely want it.

Man_of_Faith

In their delusion they believe this is what GOD wants, making GOD pleased and by complying they safeguard their place in the so-called Paradise. For this delusion people do all kinds of wicked things or impose on themselves inhumane laws and regulations, and they do it because it is "in the name of GOD", but actually it is in the name of Paganism.

Be well

FreedomStands

Peace,

From what I have seen, most women themselves don't want freedom

Yeah, I've noticed that too.

yellowdog8272

I doubt it. The Gulf-countries have a high human index development. Many of their citizens especially women are very educated and have been exchange students in the West. Such is only going to draw inspiration. Nobody wants to remain in a kitchen. If I was a woman I wouldn't want to serve a man.

More women in Saudi-Arabia for example are beginning to demand their rights that were taken by the Saudi and the Western regimes. For example the right to drive (see https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sowNSH_W2r0). When Europe was primitive and when women were oppressed many rights began to show up when women were demanding small rights to be established. The point I'm making is that the right to drive is not the only right that is going to be demanded soon. More rights will be demanded and the Saudi regime better establish it before it ends up like Abdullah; a dead rat that probaly died of venereal disease according to wikileaks. They say European prostitution is not a good thing.

It is completely a disgrace how 'democratic' countries such as Denmark, Britain, Sweden, Germany and many other Western states keep supporting the theocratic Saudi regime. They are contributing to the Saudi regime on purpose whether one realizes it or not. Of course to a dumb average Western apologist, these are theories but the irony is that they aren't. It only proves that Westerners have not yet to evolve. One can argue that Europe is still primitive if it is going to support its 'friendly' regimes that are destroying women rights in other parts of the world. It is all about interests of course.

I come from an Arab country were women have had a strong roll in history especially since Zenobia. Some have taken part of nationalist secular groups (often socialist), others have taken part of communist groups and so on. All these groups have always been targetting Islamists and European facists/imperalists in the hope of establishing equality, secularism and democracy. European imperalists/facists and Islamists have always had a long history of opposing women rights. As a response, many feminists in the Arab world arose against those misogynists.

FreedomStands

Yeah, I've noticed that too.

My above comment was a joke about me, "Freedom".

yellowdog8272

However at the same time I'm really suprised that people who orginate from countries (that truly lacks human rights) talk about rights in the Arab world for women. Native women in countries such as Kuwait or the UAE are very educated (hell they even tend to be more educated than men) unlike Southeast-Asia and South-Asia were women are treated worser than dogs. But not only in South-Asia and Southeast Asia, even in the Gulf-countries were racism towards non-Gulf citizens is common. An Indian maid got her hand chopped off by her employer after she complained of terrible wages and I don't think the employer was given jail. Of course Saudi-Arabia would never do this to Western citizens because it does not dare to consider them inferior like it does to the non-Westerners. And let's not forget the prostitution and sex trafficking in Dubai were the majority prostitutes are probaly of South-Asian and Southeast origin who get treated like shit too.

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNJeYU70c4w - Dubais Night Secrets Prostitution And Sex Trafficking In Dubai, women from India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Pakistan, and the Philippines travel willingly to the U.A.E. to work as domestic servants, .

Meanwhile the citizens (especially women) in Kuwait, UAE, etc are doing very well (compared to most parts of Asia) and enjoy the ferraris and will be celebrating when religion dies in their region because then there will finally be equality but that is assuming no dictatorship comes to power. I always keep thinking that the rich Arab states can become better than Europe combined. They have the oil, they only lack human rights. Their problem is tribalism and theocracy. Qatar for example could become like Norway but instead it becomes like Afghanistan with oil. However don't think the West somehow supports human rights in the Gulf-countries infact they have very good relations with the savagery 'moderate' regimes who are oppressing equality.

Yosemite

This topic is old so it is probaly the reason to why the link exists no more.

Of course both should have equal rights.

with the same burdens?

The only one who disagrees are those conservative religious tards (especially Islamists) that do nothing but destroy planet Earth.

I could disagree with a few points concerning the "women's liberation" movement, instead of just stopping at the theoretical notion that sounds wonderful, the theoretical notion that we can all be equal.

One thing I would like to say is that it is important not to use the Qur'an letalone any other religious scripture when talking about equality. All religions have proven to be the opposite of equality and a strong source of misogyny regardless of how many times their scriptures get reinterpreted. There have been many Arab feminists in the Arab world and in Arab history. Some have taken part of nationalist secular groups (often socialist), others have taken part of communist groups and so on. All these groups have always been targetting Islamists and European facists in the hope of establishing equality.

Your approval of communism is rather disconcerting, considering the fact that communists have killed tens of millions of people throughout history, but you are fine with this notion because some feminists were communists, apparently.

I'd like you to tell me how you managed to insert "quran" and "religion" together in the same sentence, unless you believe that the quran presents us a religion as we have known them for centuries, run by figure heads telling us how to live while they live like pigs behind the curtains.

Equality is weak in the Gulf-countries as they are complete garbage that have imposed religion on state therefor its population are suffering the consquences. Their regimes are being supported by Western countries that enjoys refering to them as 'moderate' regimes.

The most feministic countries are the western countries. We now have a conflicting belief. Will you support the western powers which aim to spread feminism around the world, despite the fact that you tell us these same western powers are supporting the misogynists of the middle east?

The regimes of the Gulf do not have many protestors knocking on their doors because they have oil. Once their oil runs out the people will get rid of them and their religion from the state. Some protestors are already protesting against the Gulf regimes but the reason why you don't hear anything is because the Western regimes keep hiding their crimes. One could argue that the Western regimes are equally as responsible as the theocratic regimes in the Gulf.

No one heard about the "arab spring"? The same fake revolutions where the few well dressed, well educated minority decided to speak in the name of the majority? Looking at the pew polling of the region, most people in the middle east want sharia and all that stuff. The western world was responsible for the arab spring tragedy, the one where a country, libya, was torn to pieces by the feministic western powers, for no reason other than he didn't want to play ball with the west.

I strongly believe in equality. To achieve it you have to ban religion from state and ban religious people from forming their own religious political parties while establishing both secularism and democracy.

Irak is a result of western secularism and democracy. Libya is a result of western democracy and secularism. Syria is a result of western secularism and democracy. Are you sure you want that?

Equality in Sweden began showing up when the Christians were no longer allowed to impose thier religion on the state and their religion was gotten rid off. Sweden today is a democratic secular country with a strong equality between both genders.

Sweden today is the third country with the most rapes in the world. They welcome in all sorts of migrants without checking their background. This is the mentality of the modern western democratic secularist.

If you're going to debate in favour of equality, you might want to avoid using words describing the western entities that caused the troubles we see in the world today.

In your own admission, the same progressive secularist democratic west protects the arab nations imposing arab based culture on the people in the middle east. I don't see where the quran plays in when looking at saudi arabia.

yellowdog8272

with the same burdens?
I could disagree with a few points concerning the "women's liberation" movement, instead of just stopping at the theoretical notion that sounds wonderful, the theoretical notion that we can all be equal.