What is love? - discuss.
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Can science measure love? Atheists love things like all other humans. But can they actually measure it to prove that love exists? If they can't then they should reject love. Love does not exist if science cannot measure it with an apparatus. So how can you deny Allah? You can't measure Allah to prove that Allah exists.
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Peace Invalid777,
Perhaps the reason why science can't measure love is because love is an emotion. And emotions seem to be immeasurable and invisible. Thoughts also seem to be immeasureable and invisible. Perhaps that's why we can't see what others think. Also, the soul/self seems to be immeasureable and invisible. No matter how advanced technology becomes, I think scientists will never be able to measure thoughts and emotions. And no matter how advanced technology becomes, I think scientists will never be able to measure souls.
Just because we can't see or measure something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. As you say, we can't measure Allah. But we can feel/sense his presence. Isn't this an undeniable and irrefutable proof that God exists? If God doesn't exist, then why can we feel his presence? These questions are worth thinking about, in my opinion.
From my understanding of the Quran, God is unseen and unseeable.
Quran 594 O you who acknowledge, God will test you with some of the game for hunting, coming within reach of your hands and your spears, so that God will know who reveres Him when unseen. Whoever transgresses after this, then he will have a painful retribution.
Quran 3611 You can only warn him who follows the reminder, and reveres the Gracious while unseen. Give him good news of forgiveness and a generous reward.
Quran 2149 Those who revere their Lord, even when unseen, and they are wary of the moment.
Quran 6103 The eyesight cannot reach Him, yet He can reach all eyesight; and He is the Subtle, the Expert.
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Peace Wakas, all,
I have always liked the quote "?We come to love not by finding a perfect person, but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.? Sam Keen, To Love and Be Loved
I like that quote too. I actually found that quote some days ago while I was reading some quotes. Also, I found another quote about true/real love some days ago. And I like it a lot. The quote goes like this
"Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it."
- Rumi
I would like to share two more quotes here. The quotes explain what the meaning of true/real love is.
"When you love someone, you love the person as they are, and not as you?d like them to be."
? Leo Tolstoy"You must understand that love never keeps a man from pursuing his Personal Legend. If he abandons that pursuit, it's because it wasn't a true love.. the love that speaks the language of the world."
- Paulo Coelho
My favourite expression of this in poem form
http//www.katsandogz.com/onmarriage.htmlThanks for sharing the link. I have read parts of what Kahlil Gibran says about love (in the link you shared) by reading one of his quotes, in the past. But as far as I am remember, I hadn't read the chapter "On marriage" until you shared it in your post. I once talked to a very intelligent man (a stranger). He recommended me to read the book "The prophet" by Kahlil Gibran. I have the book in PDF format. I haven't read the whole book yet. I have just read some of it. But I am planning to read the whole book in the future.
My favourite text about the concept of love is this one
https//thevisionweekly.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/shams-of-tabrizs-40-rules-of-love/
The poet Shams Tabrizi, was apparently Rumi's mentor. And his text is very interesting and insightful, in my opinion. If you haven't read his text already, I deeply recommend reading it.
I also recommend these two texts
http//www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-text.php?tid=405&chid=4724
https//www.yogananda-srf.org/HowtoLive/Creating_Harmony_in_Our_Relationships_With_Others.aspx
You might find them interesting and insightful.
And of course
"And one of His signs is that He created mates from yourselves that you may find tranquillity in them, and He made between you love and mercy; Indeed, in that surely are signs for people who reflect." 3021I think the ayat/sign in verse 3021 is very insightful. And I think there is a sign in verse 2187.
Quran 2187...They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them...
I like the link to ayat/sign, bearing in mind 4153 also. I have found that it can certainly enhance your spirituality and bring you closer to the divine/God.
Interesting. I wonder if it is possible to get/come very close to God and reach a high level of spirituality without ever getting married (i.e. staying single/unmarried for the rest of ones life). As far as I know, there are two verses in the Quran that speaks about what brings people closer to God.
Quran 3437 And it is not your money or your children that will bring you closer to Us, but only those who believe and do good work, they will receive double the reward for their works, and they will reside in the high dwellings in peace.
Quran 999 And from the Nomads are those who believe in God and the Last Day, and he looks upon what he spends to make him closer to God, and the contact prayers of the messenger.It indeed makes them closer. God will admit them in His mercy; God is Forgiving, Merciful.
When it comes to verse 4153, I think there are signs/ayat both in the Quran and outside of the Quran (i.e. within ourselves and in nature/universe).
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LOVE
I have always liked the quote "?We come to love not by finding a perfect person, but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.? Sam Keen, To Love and Be Loved
"And one of His signs is that He created mates from yourselves that you may find tranquillity in them, and He made between you love and mercy; Indeed, in that surely are signs for people who reflect." 3021
+1
It is one of the great signs, for love can exist without any reason.
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It is one of the great signs, for love can exist without any reason.
Especially for dinosaurs. For no reason at all.
By the way, has anyone ever heard of John Lee's 6 love styles? Anyone did the quiz?
http//courses.washington.edu/psii101/geninfo/lovetest.pdf
I did the quiz, I'd pretty much do any quiz. Am unsure of what to make of it. I did find out that I'm not a romantic and that was kinda surprising. Guess it's a bit subjective.
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Especially for dinosaurs. For no reason at all.
Heeeeyyy i maybe old fashioned and old styled but i am not a dinosaur!!
rotfl -
Especially for dinosaurs. For no reason at all.
I did the quiz, I'd pretty much do any quiz. Am unsure of what to make of it. I did find out that I'm not a romantic and that was kinda surprising. Guess it's a bit subjective.Don't worry, the quiz needs to be updated. We are supposed to have more than one quality. That's according to biology research. The only thing I take from the love style is that probably not all humans see love in the same way.
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On Love
Bearing and nurturing,
Creating but not owning,
Giving without demanding,
Controlling without authority,
This is love.
-- Lao Tze, An unenlightened kuffar, never exposed to any of the God's bookOn Religion and Love
Well established hierarchies are not easily uprooted;
Closely held beliefs are not easily released;
So religion inherited generation after generation.
Religion is the end of love and honesty,
The beginning of confusion;
Faith is a colourful hope or fear,
The source of foolishness.
-- Lao Tze, An unenlightened kuffar, never exposed to any of the God's book -
Peace Jafar and everyone,
I would like to share some quotes with you.
"I learned the real meaning of love. Love is absolute loyalty. People fade, looks fade, but loyalty never fades. You can depend so much on certain people, you can set your watch by them. And that's love, even if it doesn't seem very exciting."
- Sylvester Stallone
"This is the meaning of true love, to give until it hurts."
- Mother Teresa
"You give but little when you give of your possessions. It is when you give of yourself that you truly give."
- Kahlil Gibran
"Let us love one another, but not try to possess one another."
- Paulo Coelho
"Love is not a debt that needs to be paid back with love."
- Paulo Coelho
"If you love someone you must be prepared to set them free."
- Paulo Coelho
'I find the best way to love someone is not to change them, but instead, help them reveal the greatest version of themselves.
- Steve Maraboli
I would also like to share an article/text about the work of a Korean artist with you.
Korean Artist Beautifully Illustrates What Real Love Looks Like
http//pulptastic.com/korean-artist-beautifully-illustrates-real-love/
You might find her illustrations interesting and inspirational.
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Is this quote your favorite poets forum or Quran alone forum??
26221 Shall I inform you on whom the devils come down?
26222 They come down on every sinful liar.
26223 They claim to listen, but most of them are liars.
26224 And the poets, are followed by the strayers.
26225 Do you not see that they traverse in every valley.
26226 And that what they say, is not what they do!
26227 Except for those who believe, and do good works, and remember God greatly, and were victorious after they were wronged. As for those who did wrong, they will know which fate they will meet.Will you provide the believers with citations from poets while the best guidance is from the Quran??
No more citing irrelevant documentation
O companions of the forum HOLD FIRMLY TO THE SCRIPTURE revealed to the messenger by GOD
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Peace HP_TECH
I do not see anyone going against the scripture here?
The thread is called "What is love"? Discuss.
So what is wrong with poems about love in the thread?
Are we going to impose rules on what to write here on members? Surely that is not in Qoran either?
May be that is how religions start!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace HP_TECH,
Is this quote your favorite poets forum or Quran alone forum??
In my view, there is a difference between learning from poets and following them. We can learn new things by reading the thoughts, opinions, theories and ideas of poets, scholars, thinkers, actors and artists without following them. The Quran doesn't discourage us from seeking knowledge, in my opinion. One the contrary, the Quran suggests that knowledge is vital if one wants to derive the correct/right interpretation of this sacred/divine book.
The Quran suggests that if one wants to understand the examples in it one must seek knowledge
Quran 2943 Such are the examples We cite for the people, but none reason except the knowledgeable.
The Quran suggests that only the knowledgeable among humans will be able to interpret it in a right/correct way
Quran 37 He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which there are lawgiving revelations; they are the essence of the Book; and others which are of a similitude. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow that which is of a similitude, seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except those who possess intelligence.
The Quran suggests that there is much value in knowledge
Quran 399 As for one who is meditating in the night, prostrating and standing, fearing the Hereafter, and seeking the mercy of his Lord. Say, "Are those who know equal to those who do not know?" Only those who possess understanding will remember.
Quran 1255 He said, "Make me keeper over the granaries of the land, for I know how to keep records and I am knowledgeable."
Quran 1883-84 AND THEY will ask thee about the Two-Horned One. Say "I will convey unto you something by which he ought to be remembered." Behold, We established him securely on earth, and endowed him with the right means to achieve anything ;
Quran 2247 And their prophet said to them "God has sent Saul to you as a king." They said "How can he have the kingship when we are more deserving than him, and he has not been given an abundance of wealth?" He said "God has chosen him over you and increased him in knowledge and physical stature." God grants His sovereignty to whom He chooses; and God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
As far as I know, there are no verses in the Quran which instruct us to only/read study the Quran. Some people seem to think that those who follow Quran alone, are not allowed to read/study any other book than the Quran. But since the Quran suggests that one must become knowledgeable, if one wants to understand the examples in it, and if one wants to derive the right/correct interpretation of its verses, then I think that it's a bad decision to only read/study the Quran.
As far as I know, there are no verses in the Quran which state that we are not allowed to read/study any other book than the Quran. Therefore, the notion that we shouldn't ready/study any book but the Quran, seems to be a fanatical/extreme approach to islam. And from my understanding of the Quran, the Quran doesn't support this approach. Besides, there is only one verse in the Quran which mentions the words "Quran alone" (see verse 1736). On the other hand, there are several verses which directly or indirectly seem to instruct us to follow "God alone." Here is one of them.
Quran 3945 And when God alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice!
From personal experience, I can tell you that knowledge about philosophy, physics, geography and history have helped me to understand the Quran on a deeper level. Also, practical knowledge have helped me to understand the Quran on a deeper level. I think that both theoretical and practical knowledge can improve our understanding of the Quran. That being said, some people seem to learn better "hands on" than from reading. There is a quote which goes like this
"Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books."
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Peace HP_TECH
I do not see anyone going against the scripture here?
The thread is called "What is love"? Discuss.
So what is wrong with poems about love in the thread?
Are we going to impose rules on what to write here on members? Surely that is not in Qoran either?
May be that is how religions start!
GOD bless you.
Peace.No I am not a manger over you but I will God willing be true to my oath that I will forbid from the wrong and invite to the good deeds.
Did God not create love and the feelings and everything in existence?
Or did Mara Theresa or Paulo or perhaps your favorite poet?
Do they know or does God know better He the Exalted the One who created everything?
Stand with me in righteousness brother, this goes far beyond just this post
But even for this matter WITH GOD THERE IS THE BEST/DECISIVE/GREATEST ARGUMENT -
Long live fundamentalism (?)
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Peace HP_TECH
I do not see anyone going against the scripture here?
The thread is called "What is love"? Discuss.
So what is wrong with poems about love in the thread?
Are we going to impose rules on what to write here on members? Surely that is not in Qoran either?
May be that is how religions start!
GOD bless you.
Peace.Agreed. And so we see, it is not so odd that sects and religions arise in this world. It all springs from the minds of people. Even under the banner of 'quran alone' there will be formations advocating prohibitions alike the sunni "this is haram and that is haram". No wonder mainstream mankind never received any pure message from the Creator in the form of a scripture. Of course, anyone may receive guidance, but public guidance will inevitably be corrupted, by the minds of men (human beings).
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Did God not create love and the feelings and everything in existence?
Yes, so?
Or did Mara Theresa or Paulo or perhaps your favorite poet?
Did anyone claim so?
Do they know or does God know better He the Exalted the One who created everything?
How is this question relevant when nobody claimed anything such like what you are insinuating?
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Is this quote your favorite poets forum or Quran alone forum??
26221 Shall I inform you on whom the devils come down?
26222 They come down on every sinful liar.
26223 They claim to listen, but most of them are liars.
26224 And the poets, are followed by the strayers.
26225 Do you not see that they traverse in every valley.
26226 And that what they say, is not what they do!I think that verse 26224 is referring to the poets that were living during the "Prophet's time." Because according to history, there were many poets in the era of Prophet Muhammad. Poetry was very popular at that time. When we read verse 26224 in its historical context, it seems to refer to the poets that were living during the era of Prophet Muhammad, not contemporary/modern poets. I think it's important to read verse 26244, in its proper context. That being said, there might be a possibility that there is a timeless lesson in verse 26224-226, which teaches us to recognize the hypocritical behaviour of some poets (and religious scholars and political leaders) who don't practice what they preach, and teaches us to not blindly follow such people. Afterall, the Quran is the only source of law and guidance in islam.
As far as I know, there are no verses in the Quran which prohibit poetry. Thus, poetry doesn't seem to be haram (forbidden) in islam. Also, Muhammad Iqbal, who followed the Quran, and have contributed a lot to the Quranic community, used to write Poems. In my view, the fact that he was a poet, didn't make him an unrighteous man.
Peace.