Destiny, Existence, Garden of Eden, Adam & Eve, and the Universe...

Bahman

This topic actually a reply to a tread, however I wanted to post it as a separate subject.

Let's talk about destiny. If God knows everything, but still tells us to use the brain, think ,think, and think, then the destiny might be a bit different than how it's commonly known and explained.

In my understanding, God knows all the choices that would be available to humans, and all the results for those endless combination of choices we do during our lifetime. Because God has control on our universe...

What we ALWAYS forget is the concept of time. Time is relative and it is a part of our Universe. It does not necessarily apply for the Creator. We always think God knows "the future". What if there's no concept of time for God? God said BE, and it became to existence. It only took some 13.82 billion years in our lifetime, but that time only applies to us.

I like the example of the computer programmer, and the application. It's something we can relate with. Let's call these applications Adam and Eve. They ran on an Operating System (OS). called Eden. Adam v1.0 and Eve v3.1 are two similar applications designed to communicate with each other with the information they gather. Women's software is more complicated and advanced than men's, that's why I called it a v3.1... hypno

If we managed to write a proper artificial intelligence (AI) software, we would create something that is consciously very close to ourselves. This could as well be the story of creation of mankind, who knows? Asking the programmer why s/he wrote such a challenging software would be exactly the same as asking God why we were created. Answer could be as simple as "for the heck of it".

The computer would be the universe the AI software would be living in, and we could tell the program to keep away from a certain folder (knowledge tree from Genesis in Tanakh Bible). However, there is a Trojan in the system, and it is called "Satan". Satan acts like a trojan program, looking harmless and all, but while causing massive harm to the file system. The OS is not equipped with a protection system, however Adam and Eve apps do have their own intelligence to potentially protect themselves from corruption.

In the original story, Adam and Eve fail to detect the Trojan (Satan), and they access the Knowledge Folder after accepting Satan's statements. According to Satan, Adam and Eve has the potential to dethrone God, and God is afraid of this. That's why God told them to keep away from the Knowledge Folder. We all know Trojans are programmed software, and obviously it was created by THE Programmer. Therefore God knew they would potentially get there. It was a test for their AI. Would it think for itself and follow the Creator's lead, or the Trojan's? They had two choices, yes or no, and God know the results of both.

As a result of getting all that knowledge, they became aware of their bodies. At this point, God wanted to test this further by uploading Adam and Eve to a massive amount of hosts in another realm, The Universe. Different hosts in different servers used a variety of versions of this application. The simplest ones would be animals, which came with basic functions and pre installed information. As an example, cats born with the information to look for dirt for their toilet needs, and they try to cover it up. That's a pre-installed information. Due to the low capacity of their operating system, they gain a limited amount of experience, and they teach it to their children, however they do not progress any further than a cat from hundreds of years ago.

Although I think there are many others like us in different worlds, we, the "Mankind" is equipped with an AI, and we progress in a different level. I still call it an AI, because it is artificial to its Creator. However, no matter how advanced the newer generation is, the consciousness can not be taught by previous generations, it could only exist by using the maximum capacity to think and evaluate the data.

I would like to think that God is not interested in how advanced mankind becomes. The key is the consciousness. We will not be tested for making the fastest space ship, but our consciousness for existence, for the environment, and our Creator.

The same application causes different effects on the host, and God promises to download the app back to Eden server if the app passes the test of consciousness.

We are living in interesting times, where we can get instant access to information through our mobile devices. It totally makes sense how our good deeds and bad decisions could be uploaded to the main server to be evaluated at the end of days. We call it "The Cloud". We could be connected to an astral cloud system.

Just another idea among many... It would be cool to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

Peace...

Peace
Interesting opinion , i have had same taught but make it simpler using ROBOT, the one that foen to Mars has been programmed to do many action and report back, but may the virus infect some program by manipulating the messages which programmer ( Creator) sends new message and again viruse which is a testing tool corrupts and finally decides to use some codes to prevent manipulation of messages more, now we have purified scripture for younger generation not for following religious ritual which is for 1400 centuries ago but a sign for existence of Creator.

We are robots which have freedom, like we walk in a very wide one way road , we have freedom to walk zig zag and move this road (life) but we miss the chance to reach to end of the road which is truth.

No creature can understand the Creator, a robot can do many things that we can not but its built by our 6-7 % granted brain and when we will be able to create a complete bionic human like our self never can understand us as all knowledge are uploaded by us. It can check my finger point and give all information.
But finally we read in Quran this life is illusion
Peace.

Ahmet

Yeah, that's one of the countless possibilities we can speculate on. Mankind's relocation from Mars to Earth. It is a valid theory until proven wrong, or a sci-fi fantasy until proven to be correct. Some relate it with Noah, who according to Tanakh Bible and Quran, lived 950 years. We don't know what kind of calendar this 950 years is based on, but it hints us that it might be a different planet, or even a different dimension... I find it quite interesting that his children lived almost half as many years. The new environment might have lacked certain nutrients, or the calendar system might have changed. Another mystery...

I would like to call us Conscious Robots since we do not really do tasks according to our programming. I've met many people who lack consciousness. Perhaps the idea behind our programming is simply "Do Whatever You See Fit", a generously randomized task that allows every individual to follow a different path, while the behavior of each individual would be monitored, and the ones that think and act more like the Creator would be cherry picked. In that case, we could definitely be Robots by definition.

I would question the idea of "corruption of the program due to a virus" because it leads to the Christian way of thinking that every child is born as a sinner. Since we are basing our theories on sacred history, we should make sure all our statements go inline with it.

Quran 643 He created the heavens and the earth with the truth, and He designed you and perfected your design, and to Him is the final destiny.

I still think Satan, the corrupter is like a built in Trojan in our O/S. You just need to double click and run it's program to corrupt the mind. We are born with the potential of corruption, not corrupted. Those unfortunate ones who born with physical and mental disabilities pop a question mark here. There is an imperfection there, and I honestly don't know how to deal with how it clashes with verse 643. Anything I would come up would sound apologetic.

reel

I have been thinking a lot about this kind of philosophies and came to conclusion that there is a serious need for scientific research on whatever God says in the Quran. Destiny, heaven, hell, jinn, etc can be explained through it. I know some here have tried to find different meanings of them. But they are claims without proof. The rationality we have at this point is just not enough for such unknown things.

huruf

I have always foud that tying with God something that is bound with time is tyaing Godto something that does not affect Himat all. Time is for us, for God time is just an element of matter not of Him, therefore we experience in time and space, but those are not lay to God. He creates us all the time. He creates every instant of existence for us. As I think it says somewhere in the Qur'an if God did not do that everything would end. Thatis obvious as nothing exists by itself, only God exists by etiself and cn mke anything exist.

As to Adam and Eve, in Qur'an there is not such a thig as Eve. There is adam, the creature made of "mud" (as opposed to made of fire like the jinns) and adam is nnot the name of a man but the denomination of th species, adam and his partner where it is not specified who is which sex.

So as to our existence, since God creates us every instant, He does not have to have predestined anything. He makes us whatever he wills as we go. Or he may have a idea all over, or everyidea all over. I do ot think that we will ever be able in this life to determine God's plans beyond what the Qur'an says. May be he creates millions of destinies for each person and then picks the one H is going to judge us by... We may speculate unendlessly.

What is important for us is the our fitra, go by it and acknowledge the teaching that are inherent in us and those that come to us through other means, revelation or learning, trough pondering or experience.

Salaam

Man_of_Faith

But they are claims without proof.

Many of my linguistic arguments have not been claims. I would say they are evidence. It is not my fault that people ignore reason and logic.

Take jinn for example.

What the lexicons delve into

= Jiim-Nun-Nun (root of jinn) = veiled/concealed/covered/hid/protected (e.g. cloth, armour, grave, shield)

From Lane's

inf. n. , (TA,) It veiled, concealed, hid, covered, or protected, him; (

(S, TA or the latter, he wrapped it in graveclothing (K and he buried it.

The greater, main, or chief, part, or the main body, or bulk, of men, or of mankind; as also ; (K
because he who enters among them becomes concealed by them (TA or the latter means the general
assemblage, or collective body, of men* (IAar, S, TA or what veils, conceals, covers, or protects, one,
of a thing. (AA, TA.)

Bingo. The bodily.

A thing by which a person is veiled, concealed, hidden, covered, or protected an arm, or armour,
with which one protects himself (S anything protective (K or coats of mail, and any defensive, or
protective, arm or armour (TA pl. . (S.)
A piece of cloth which a woman wears, covering

A garment that conceals the body. (TA.) [See also [.

The word implies the actual covering of an item. It is easy to add 1 + 1. The meaning of hidden is fabricated and it does seem absurd with some kind of supernatural being named Jinn. You conceal (cover) your skin with clothes, dress up. You cover it against cold and due to your sense of modesty. In summary al-jinn speaks about that surface of covering which in Quranic terms refers to the "flesh" as it was called in the Bible's New Testament. An "jinny" person is a very hedonistic person who thinks a lot about this World.

What I argue

Al-jinn is the bodily as opposed to al-nas which is the spiritual, related to the soul. Janna - teh is the object form producing an item of bodily, i.e. a body. It seems unbelievable only because certain people in the past have had such a believability and made it so uniform so that it is automatically taken for ultimate truth. The fools made body into garden. In truth there is no freaking garden waiting if you die here on Earth and is successful but you become an angel (a malekateh). The wish for a garden in where you live a carefree and slack life is just what a hedonistic human is wishing for. Your destiny is way more advanced than that and you are ethereal and you are at the Rabb's side, even reside in the Rabb.

I call what I propagate in every thread to be able to be considered evidence easily depending on your viewpoint and level of maturity (of spirituality) of course. Even researching into ancient lexicons can reveal a great deal with a portion of critical thinking applied.

To be honest I wonder what makes it so God damned hard to realize the meaning of Jinn. It literally is in the lexicons for who just cares to read a little. Edward Lane made it simpler in the 19th century for English people.

I have also spoken out about the nature of the word allah and ought to make a whole lot sense but people ignore the logic within my reasoning and purchase the traditional reasoning for a cheap price just because an overwhelming majority agrees with it.

Be safe
Amenuel

reel

Take jinn for example.

The meaning you gave is not the problem. My sis has been confusing me with jinn vs satan. Meanwhile, my dad's family has always claimed that they called jinns to do "shopping" for them. The truth is that their are beings out there and we can't see them. Hence, we can use your translation here. I must also add that our eyes have limited power. Scientific explanation about it
7. The "Visible" Spectrum
Probably the most well-known of human sensory limitations, the typical human eye is only capable of perceiving light at wavelengths between 390 and 750 nanometers. Of course, calling it the "visible" spectrum is a bit of a misnomer, as plenty of animals are capable of perceiving light with frequencies outside this relatively narrow band of electromagnetic radiation.http//io9.gizmodo.com/5926643/10-fundamental-limits-to-human-perception----and-how-they-shape-your-world

Warning for novices and overly curious people Do not try what I am gonna talk about below.

For MOF Have you ever heard of the drug called DMT? Many people who take it have reported of seeing creatures. This was caught even in clinical studies. Some have drawn what they saw. Here is an example.
http//www.dmtsite.com/dmt/experience/imgs/pict_zarkhov.jpg

When research on it some months ago, I came across a story according to which the author and his friends found themselves in the same weird spot outside reality after taking that drug. I wanted to add the link, but couldn't find it. But here is one that has collection of storieshttp//www.serendipity.li/dmt/cl_rpts.html
Also check out this thread http//www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6270801/fpart/all/vc/1

Some of the pictures I saw reminded me of how people draw satan. The entities seemed to have horns and all. But then there were certain pics showing sacred geometry. I have no idea what these things are. But every time I read the descriptions I begin to think about jinn and satan. I also start to feel that there must be a wall behind which exists another world. That's why, I suggested scientific experiments on what God says.

Same goes for the destiny. You know that if the future is truly fixed then there might be no free will at all. But then God says that he guides us and that we would go to hell if we do bad things. This leaves many confused because at this point our logic does not agree with it. But there must be something connecting free will and destiny together. 9 years ago, when I was sunni I once tried three psychics. Strangely, all three said the same thing about my future love life. I still ponder upon this despite the fact that I have been a big supporter of the power of free will. I tried using the rationality that maybe I programmed/forced myself to take the path to prove that they were right. But I still feel defeated when I think of how 3 of them gave the same conclusion. Can parallel universe explain such things?
http//image.slidesharecdn.com/einsteinformulaco16printcrystalgraphics-131001133547-phpapp01/95/einstein-formula-and-the-5-638.jpg?cb=1380634599

Invalid777

Same goes for the destiny. You know that if the future is truly fixed then there might be no free will at all. But then God says that he guides us and that we would go to hell if we do bad things. This leaves many confused because at this point our logic does not agree with it. But there must be something connecting free will and destiny together. 9 years ago, when I was sunni I once tried three psychics. Strangely, all three said the same thing about my future love life. I still ponder upon this despite the fact that I have been a big supporter of the power of free will. I tried using the rationality that maybe I programmed/forced myself to take the path to prove that they were right. But I still feel defeated when I think of how 3 of them gave the same conclusion. Can parallel universe explain such things?
http//image.slidesharecdn.com/einsteinformulaco16printcrystalgraphics-131001133547-phpapp01/95/einstein-formula-and-the-5-638.jpg?cb=1380634599

With predetermination, the all-knowing Intelligence (GOD) creates an infinite amount of timelines. We are given the ability think and make choices i.e. free will. All of the choices we make add up to form a timeline. The Creator knows how this timeline will form because he/it created it. The Creator knows the final outcome too.

If I had not dropped out of university, my life would be very different. It was one of the reasons that made me reconsider my life. I did not know what to do with my life. I started asking questions that I would never had asked. Was my life to just be like what my parent wanted me to be? I had already failed one of my parent?s expectations, to go to university. The first domino fell, and before I knew it, I was no longer a Muslim. Something my parents wanted me to become, a religious person. Here I am today, typing this on Free-minds.

As with the theory of parallel universes you posted, there are an infinite amount of universes. There could be a universe where I didn?t drop out of university, become a lawyer, never asked questions, never rejected hadiths and stayed a Muslim. I would never have signed up on Free-minds and none of you would have read the stuff that I wrote here. One small event changes the course of the whole future because all our choices add up to form a timeline. The Creator created an infinite amount of timelines (possibilities). This existed before we were born. Every choice we make affects everyone around us.

If an ancient ancestor of yours was murdered, you would not have been born, and again, I would not be typing this to you right now because you were never born. We are all connected in away. The Creator knows the outcome of every choice we make because he/it created these choices. Each choice leads to a different timeline. We end up in only one of the infinite amount of timelines that have been created.

So no, we are not puppets with no choice at all. We control our destiny. We have been given the ability to think and make choices. The future depends on the choices we make. There are infinite choices hence infinite amount of possibilities of what the future may become. With freedom comes responsibility.
Predetermination has been misunderstood (especially by religion) which is what caused me a big headache about it.

Man_of_Faith

There are reports of people seeing pink elephants too. Different drugs create different hallucinogenic visions including their color spectrum. The color seems to vary with the drug. There are no creatures called Jinn, that is superstition.

Some people eating death cap have seen some flurry vision of many different colors.

I have taken an overdose of nutmeg receiving red wandering creatures in my field of vision.

The reason you see things is because your vision is impaired and your fantasy projects elements that do not exist, affected by the drug's effect.

Be safe
Amenuel

savage_carrot

9 years ago, when I was sunni I once tried three psychics. Strangely, all three said the same thing about my future love life. I still ponder upon this despite the fact that I have been a big supporter of the power of free will. I tried using the rationality that maybe I programmed/forced myself to take the path to prove that they were right. But I still feel defeated when I think of how 3 of them gave the same conclusion. Can parallel universe explain such things?
Were they very specific? Since it could be something that could possibly be a generalized coincidence otherwise. I find the idea of parallel universes very interesting, it could possibly explain a lot of things inclusive of souls/people etc not having lived their full lives in just one and the idea of external situations changing like simulators and so on. I'm not sure about the way reincarnation is understood commonly, but perhaps it could actually be in parallel as opposed to one after the other.

huruf

Many things depend on the degree of perception of persons. Psychics may be right not becuase anything alien an illogical, but mrely because they are exremely perceptive. Just s dogs know things about persons, other animals and thigs because they perceive things that we do not. Perceptiveness of people is very different, not only in degree but also in content. Some people arevery erceptivo details that mos t eople do not notice. Also certain people are more perceptive of charactr, and characr tends to also shape destiny. It is not difficult to guess that somebody who is outgoing and jolly will be popular and attract a lot of people and have many boy or girl friends.

Somepeople are not perceptive as to their own bodies and they eat things that make them sick because they do not perceive it, others know automatically what is going to do them good and what not. So nothing unusual or magic about it.

Salaam

Taro_Hiroshi

Peace reel and everyone,

For MOF Have you ever heard of the drug called DMT? Many people who take it have reported of seeing creatures. This was caught even in clinical studies.

Personally, I have decided to never try any type of drugs, no matter how fascinating it sounds. In my view, drugs are risky. Because it seems that scientists don't know enough about the long-term effect of drugs (especially hallucinogens). For all we know, drugs might do unrepairable damage to people. I recommend the post below.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607636.msg372776#msg372776

reel

There are reports of people seeing pink elephants too.

Not universally.

Different drugs create different hallucinogenic visions including their color spectrum. The color seems to vary with the drug. There are no creatures called Jinn, that is superstition.

Try studying the effects of DMT.

There are no creatures called Jinn, that is superstition.

Not so fast! There are entities out there and they are not limited to just one location of the earth.

The reason you see things is because your vision is impaired and your fantasy projects elements that do not exist, affected by the drug's effect.

Fact or fiction for DMT? There is no true consensus among scientists about this.

Were they very specific? Since it could be something that could possibly be a generalized coincidence otherwise.

I would like to believe it was a coincidence. All three gave the same timeline and the distance between me and him at the time. I did ask how he looked. Two gave correct features and the other one said her spirit showed things in black shade. Hence, she could not see the real face.

I find the idea of parallel universes very interesting, it could possibly explain a lot of things inclusive of souls/people etc not having lived their full lives in just one and the idea of external situations changing like simulators and so on.

This has caught up my interest too. I am trying to find out more about it.

Just s dogs know things about persons, other animals and thigs because they perceive things that we do not.

This makes me sad. Why didn't God give us their eyesight?

Personally, I have decided to never try any type of drugs, no matter how fascinating it sounds. In my view, drugs are risky.

I never tried any either. But I believe scientists can research on those who take them.

Man_of_Faith

Not so fast! There are entities out there and they are not limited to just one location of the earth.

If they are ethereal they are not limited to any location at all. You would also be ethereal except that you are force-attached to a Body.

Nevertheless, the word al-jinn in Quran does not refer to any such phenomenon.

Be safe
Amenuel