Why were we created?
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Huruf,
I could bring you clear proof, but you would likely argue something else concerning the segments of text.
This body of ours is NOT something permanent to us but it is a temporary habitat, unless we incline towards its primate drive because then we would stay within this little bubble called Gehannom and get further assimilated with it. It is obviously your and everyone else's choice what to do. But each person deserves proper information at least.
One who is to be successful should not give in to their Body. For this reason the 'Ten Commandments' (the teachings of Torah) were given to us. Why do you think they were given? Each line of the "decree" contains parameters to avoid succumbing to its instinctive drive. Themselves they are called "stumbling blocks", i.e what causes someone to fall.
I know you disbelieve in the Biblical gospels, but one indication they are ambiguous is since Jesus/Isa/Jesua elaborated upon them and showed how one should perceive them, clearly showing one's must to control themselves. "Do not even be angry with your brother" instead of do not kill is one example.
Satan = the instinct of the primate species we are within
And there are no Jinn either. This is referring to the bodily.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Salam hanslan, I appreciate your input on the subject.
I do accept that we all have roles to play in this life. However my query relates to the WHY of it all. I guess I can break it down into the following
-Why create man and send him to earth?
-why send us and then wipe all memory of heaven from us?
-Why ask us to believe in one God, one religion (amongst hundreds) and then not show absolute clear proof of Gods own existence to mankind. Would be much easier to refrain from haram if we all had undisputed proof of Gods existence. No more atheists either!
-Why ask us to believe in Islam when Allah himself says in the Quran that "if I wanted all of mankind to believe, I would make them believe" (not an exact quote from the Quran, but words to that effect)God allowed the creation of hundreds of religions, with many similarities and many differences, now we are told to choose the correct one or we burn in hell for eternity. And not just choose the correct religion but choose the correct version of that religion amongst hundreds of interpretations of that religion. Seems a bit unfair to be honest.
Salam OnlyOneGod. I am going to answer you base on my understanding of the Quran so far.
-Why create man and send him to earth?
To be the Creator's viceroy on earth. To develop ourselves into a higher state (the perfect human / insanul kamil/ god like state) as opposed to the animal state we were created from in a short life time despite the memory wipe imposed (other beings live longer but are fully developed creations).
-why send us and then wipe all memory of heaven from us?
The Creator entrusted us with roles & purpose to develop ourselves in our own way confined within the earth/stage set by the Creator. If our memory was not wiped, there is no need for self development ie we probably are fully developed/finished product. Other creatures are created fully developed i.e. their roles do not expand further.
The main challenge for us and the trust given to us is in the form of the memory wipe ie can humans achieve optimum role/purpose despite the wipe?. Thus the different levels of heaven for different level of achievers.-Why ask us to believe in one God, one religion (amongst hundreds) and then not show absolute clear proof of Gods own existence to mankind.
Would be much easier to refrain from haram if we all had undisputed proof of Gods existence. No more atheists either!Absolute clear proof is given but it is our choice to take and reflect on it i.e. it does not take a rocket scientist to prove the existence of God but the fact that something exist must have a creator to create it but this becomes too simplistic for some hence the need for more evidence, religions, believes, systems etc whereupon the Creator said to the effect 'if everything is reveal now then the end has come'. Hence the concept of religion and god is a creation of man due to many reasons mostly for power over human kind. If we come to the right conclusion, if majority of humans come to the right conclusion by studying and living by the Quran (although everyone can have different levels of understanding) then human kind will be free from religion and realises that every single thing we do is for the creator given that we are just performing our roles and commitments.
What is haram in the Quran is clearly stated and if leads to confusion then it is considered not a clear prohibition - again the choice is personal. Personally I find very little that is explicitly haram in the Quran.
The many and countless harams may have come from the crusades when King Richard went to see Salehuddin and discovered a room full of women to that Salehuddin said 'haram' to King Richard! Hence 'haram' became 'harem' due to pronunciation but with different meanings. Seriously, the many and countless harams came from men.
-Why ask us to believe in Islam when Allah himself says in the Quran that "if I wanted all of mankind to believe, I would make them believe" (not an exact quote from the Quran, but words to that effect)
Humans were given the trust to uphold their commitments and develop their roles/purpose despite being wipe of memory and as reward the chance to develop oneself to an elevated station where no other sits. No one is given a free ride!Personally, I no longer ask the question 'why were we created' although at one point I was also like you. The answer that came was due to the attributes depicted by the names ArRahman and ArRahim. The two attributes were the reason for creation whilst all the drama and storyline are coming from other attributes of the Creator. Thus I wonder, when the Creator refer to 'we' does it refer to other attributes rather than referring to god and the angels. Thus, the exact nature of our Creator is a mystery because we are just a manifestation of the Creator's attributes.
Peace All.
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Huruf,
I could bring you clear proof, but you would likely argue something else concerning the segments of text.
This body of ours is NOT something permanent to us but it is a temporary habitat, unless we incline towards its primate drive because then we would stay within this little bubble called Gehannom and get further assimilated with it. It is obviously your and everyone else's choice what to do. But each person deserves proper information at least.
One who is to be successful should not give in to their Body. For this reason the 'Ten Commandments' (the teachings of Torah) were given to us. Why do you think they were given? Each line of the "decree" contains parameters to avoid succumbing to its instinctive drive. Themselves they are called "stumbling blocks", i.e what causes someone to fall.
I know you disbelieve in the Biblical gospels, but one indication they are ambiguous is since Jesus/Isa/Jesua elaborated upon them and showed how one should perceive them, clearly showing one's must to control themselves. "Do not even be angry with your brother" instead of do not kill is one example.
Satan = the instinct of the primate species we are within
And there are no Jinn either. This is referring to the bodily.
Be safe
AmenuelYou have repeated yourself but have brought no new insight or argument into your own statements about the sepaartio between body and whatever else.
And the peak of cheek, excuse, is that you say you do not bring proof because I
"would likely argue something else concerning the segments of text."
In fact I asked you to support your statements abut the body ad its relation with whtever else with quotes from the Qur'an. Have you trasformed that request into mere "proof", eliminating the Qur'an altogether?
s to what I would do, my God, do youwnat peoplle now to say amen to whatever, or do you suspect outright bad faith in me. Not that that would afect me, but have the honesty of bringing proper justifications (if it is that you atemted) and not mere excuses for ot doing what is requested of you to uphold what you uphold.
As to the gospels, som parables are very good, but nothing to be compared to the Qur'an. And parrticularly concenring the body there might be too much connection between what you extract from th egosels and certain strain of christianism really demented concerning the body and its evilness.
Please read again my revious message, you have nnot nswered it.
Salaam
Salaam
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Peace OnlyOneGod.
For me the answer is in your forum name. "OnlyOneGod or many gods? We have to choose!
Now, hanslan has given you some interesting answers. I happen to agree with most of what was said in that post.
Hope you clear up the query and keep being loyal to your creator.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
And what would that absolute proof be that was bestowed on his angels.
The fact that they can see him and thus be absolutely sure of his existence.
I suppose there are many reasons, since there are many who make up humanity.
Then why are those reasons not accommodated for when the Quran talks about the end times and hell for the disbelievers?
Peace OnlyOneGod be patient with yourself, some questions may take years to answer, try not to draw premature conclusions (doubt is a conclusion).
I am patient. To be honest, even though I have yet to understand the overarching philosophy behind our creation, I have not found a religion that matches Islam in its logic and humanity.
Indeed God knows best
Peace be upon all.
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The fact that they can see him and thus be absolutely sure of his existence.
Then why are those reasons not accommodated for when the Quran talks about the end times and hell for the disbelievers?
I am patient. To be honest, even though I have yet to understand the
overarching philosophy behind our creation, I have not found a religion that matches
Islam in its logic and humanity.Indeed God knows best
Peace be upon all.
And what would that absolute proof be that was bestowed on his angels.
OnlyOneGod The fact that they can see him and thus be absolutely sure of his existence.
I'm not sure that the angels can physically "see" Allah.
I do not understand what you mean here
OnlyOneGod Then why are those reasons not accommodated for when the Quran talks about the
end times and hell for the disbelievers?OnlyOneGodI am patient. To be honest, even though I have yet to
understand the overarching philosophy behind our creation, I have not found a religion that
matches Islam in its logic and humanity.I too have not found a religion that matches Islam in its logic and humanity.
OnlyOneGod Indeed God knows best
Indeed
peace
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The rpoof of anything is experiencing it. God gives us a life for that. And the proof is very simple. You say that the proof for angels was to see God, well there as an aya which says "wherever you turn is the face of Allah".
Obviously is not talking about about a litteral face, but for most people and usually a face is the thing that on first sight makes us recognize a person. Thre you are everything around you and beyond is the face of Allah, you ay recognize Him.
Salaam
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Peace.
Why were we created? Can become Why were we created humans this time?, why am I saying this ?
Well because of this verse
228
How can you disbelieve in God when you were dead and He gave you life, then He puts you to death, then He brings you back to life, then to Him you ultimately return?GOD is very precise , He says " Kuntum Amwatan"---you were dead!!!!,then gave you life. That implies we were created before this new life/creation, otherwise GOD would have said " you were nothing".
The fact that we were dead before this creation as humans, means we were alive before that?
The only logical meaning to "You were dead" is we must have been alive then put to death?
Ponder the verse guys!
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Peace.
Why were we created? Can become Why were we created humans this time?, why am I saying this ?
Well because of this verse
228
How can you disbelieve in God when you were dead and He gave you life, then He puts you to death, then He brings you back to life, then to Him you ultimately return?GOD is very precise , He says " Kuntum Amwatan"---you were dead!!!!,then gave you life. That implies we were created before this new life/creation, otherwise GOD would have said " you were nothing".
The fact that we were dead before this creation as humans, means we were alive before that?
The only logical meaning to "You were dead" is we must have been alive then put to death?
Ponder the verse guys!
GOD bless.
Peace.You have touched on that which I have pondered for a while indeed 7172
In the name of God the Most Gracious The Most Merciful
And when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, , "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware."That is why God sends us reminders and we are constantly told to remember Allah
Furthermore, in 4010-11
In the Name of The God, The Most Gracious, The Most MercifulIndeed, those who disbelieve will be addressed, "The hatred of Allah for you was greater than your hatred of yourselves when you were invited to faith, but you refused."
They will say, "Our Lord, You made us lifeless twice and gave us life twice, and we have confessed our sins. So is there to an exit any way?"Therefore, believing in Allah is remembering in your innate soul that you were before Him once before
Just my humble 2cents
Peace
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Salam OnlyOneGod. I am going to answer you base on my understanding of the Quran so far.
-Why create man and send him to earth?
To be the Creator's viceroy on earth. To develop ourselves into a higher state (the perfect human / insanul kamil/ god like state) as opposed to the animal state we were created from in a short life time despite the memory wipe imposed (other beings live longer but are fully developed creations).
-why send us and then wipe all memory of heaven from us?
The Creator entrusted us with roles & purpose to develop ourselves in our own way confined within the earth/stage set by the Creator. If our memory was not wiped, there is no need for self development ie we probably are fully developed/finished product. Other creatures are created fully developed i.e. their roles do not expand further.
The main challenge for us and the trust given to us is in the form of the memory wipe ie can humans achieve optimum role/purpose despite the wipe?. Thus the different levels of heaven for different level of achievers.-Why ask us to believe in one God, one religion (amongst hundreds) and then not show absolute clear proof of Gods own existence to mankind.
Would be much easier to refrain from haram if we all had undisputed proof of Gods existence. No more atheists either!Absolute clear proof is given but it is our choice to take and reflect on it i.e. it does not take a rocket scientist to prove the existence of God but the fact that something exist must have a creator to create it but this becomes too simplistic for some hence the need for more evidence, religions, believes, systems etc whereupon the Creator said to the effect 'if everything is reveal now then the end has come'. Hence the concept of religion and god is a creation of man due to many reasons mostly for power over human kind. If we come to the right conclusion, if majority of humans come to the right conclusion by studying and living by the Quran (although everyone can have different levels of understanding) then human kind will be free from religion and realises that every single thing we do is for the creator given that we are just performing our roles and commitments.
What is haram in the Quran is clearly stated and if leads to confusion then it is considered not a clear prohibition - again the choice is personal. Personally I find very little that is explicitly haram in the Quran.
The many and countless harams may have come from the crusades when King Richard went to see Salehuddin and discovered a room full of women to that Salehuddin said 'haram' to King Richard! Hence 'haram' became 'harem' due to pronunciation but with different meanings. Seriously, the many and countless harams came from men.
-Why ask us to believe in Islam when Allah himself says in the Quran that "if I wanted all of mankind to believe, I would make them believe" (not an exact quote from the Quran, but words to that effect)
Humans were given the trust to uphold their commitments and develop their roles/purpose despite being wipe of memory and as reward the chance to develop oneself to an elevated station where no other sits. No one is given a free ride!Personally, I no longer ask the question 'why were we created' although at one point I was also like you. The answer that came was due to the attributes depicted by the names ArRahman and ArRahim. The two attributes were the reason for creation whilst all the drama and storyline are coming from other attributes of the Creator. Thus I wonder, when the Creator refer to 'we' does it refer to other attributes rather than referring to god and the angels. Thus, the exact nature of our Creator is a mystery because we are just a manifestation of the Creator's attributes.
Peace All.
"To be the Creator's viceroy on earth. To develop ourselves into a higher state (the perfect human / insanul kamil/ god like state) as opposed to the animal state we were created from in a short life time despite the memory wipe imposed (other beings live longer but are fully developed creations). "
If God wanted us to be a creature of a higher state then why create us at a lower state?
"The Creator entrusted us with roles & purpose to develop ourselves in our own way confined within the earth/stage set by the Creator. If our memory was not wiped, there is no need for self development ie we probably are fully developed/finished product. Other creatures are created fully developed i.e. their roles do not expand further."
If the creator entrusted us with roles and purposes to develop ourselves within those confines, then would you say that a hindu created within the role and the family culture of a hindu family will not be sent to hell?
"The main challenge for us and the trust given to us is in the form of the memory wipe ie can humans achieve optimum role/purpose despite the wipe?. Thus the different levels of heaven for different level of achievers."
Different levels of humans come up with different reasons for our existence, and all of them do not guide them towards islam even when they are sincere in their search.
"Absolute clear proof is given but it is our choice to take and reflect on it i.e. it does not take a rocket scientist to prove the existence of God but the fact that something exist must have a creator to create it but this becomes too simplistic for some hence the need for more evidence, religions, believes, systems etc whereupon the Creator said to the effect 'if everything is reveal now then the end has come'."
What is this "absolute proof"? You say that something that exists must have a creator, then what or who created the creator?
Allah (swt) in the Quran wants us and the whole humanity to believe in him. If he wants us to believe then the easiest path is to show the whole of humanity his miracles through Muslims. Why doesn't he do that, eventhough he wants us to believe in him?
And if the only reason is that "if everything is revealed then the end has come" then why expect people that God has created with this complex brain and this ingrained need to question, to believe on blind faith? Why give us this ability to ask for proofs and then declare thousands of years of hell for those who question it?
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Peace OnlyOneGod.
You ask a valid question/s
What is this "absolute proof"? You say that something that exists must have a creator, then what or who created the creator?GOD gives us the answer when he uses the word "Absolute one",
There has to be one supremacy and one intelligence, a source and a founder of all that exist;
Your question "What or who created the creator" will keep going on and on if there was no "Absolute one" i.e the Origin, Source .That is exactly who the Creator is The Origin. the only one, the Absolute one. He calls Himself the "First" and the "Last"...etc.
Everything stops at the Creator. He simply always existed,before anything...
The words absolute and relative are quite straight forward in what they mean. Anything relative is that which can be compared to or related to other things. Whenever we describe that object we are always describing it in relation to other things. On the other hand an absolute is that which is self-existent and conceivable without relation to other things.
So who created the one who created...are all relative, connected to each other. GOD is absolute, disconnected from the chain of who created...etc
The absolute God then means that nothing is like or akin to Him, but if we were to consider the possibility of the existence of more than one god, immediately the question will arise as to which god came first, which god is more powerful and so on, and that would ultimately reduce these gods to being relative because comparisons will arise.
If God is absolute, by definition, He must be One and not created by any other. i.e the buck stops there.
Somebody might say "Why are you quoting the Qoran when I do not believe in it?" i.e using the "Absolut one"?
I say logic also leads to this conclusion?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace OnlyOneGod
"To be the Creator's viceroy on earth. To develop ourselves into a higher state (the perfect human / insanul kamil/ god like state) as opposed to the animal state we were created from in a short life time despite the memory wipe imposed (other beings live longer but are fully developed creations). "
If God wanted us to be a creature of a higher state then why create us at a lower state?
To Grow/achieve as you have stated
"The Creator entrusted us with roles & purpose to develop ourselves in our own way confined within the earth/stage set by the Creator. If our memory was not wiped, there is no need for self development ie we probably are fully developed/finished product. Other creatures are created fully developed i.e. their roles do not expand further."
If the creator entrusted us with roles and purposes to develop ourselves within those confines, then would you say that a hindu created within the role and the family culture of a hindu family will not be sent to hell?
God judges the intentions there are good and bad people everywhere.
What is this "absolute proof"? You say that something that exists must have a creator,
then what or who created the creator?The creator created "this" we are not capable of thinking beyond creation.
(sorry for exposing our limitations, but the human does not have infinite capabilities)Allah (swt) in the Quran wants us and the whole humanity to believe in him.
This is one of the most common and gross errors that leads to many erroneous conclusions!
God bless you
peace
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One question I have asked myself many times is why there omthing instead of there being nothing.
It is a question which has no answer, no answer that I may know answering it directly.
On the other hand I have an answer whatever I may imagine or not imaginne because it is actually imppossible to imagine "nothing", there is no way of going around the fact tht something exists, and since something exists we also exist and we need to make sense of existence, we would very uch like to no mater what. God gives sense to existence.
Salaam
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No I do not mean that, I mean why there is God even, of course let alone anything other than God. I know th thought is unthinkable, because how can you imagine nothing when there is something andand nobody can have been in existence without existence so that he-she-it whould ever have the possibility of having known nothing including a Creator or God. When I said nothing a mean no God, no nothing, nothing inexistence. Isn't that startling?
Salaam
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No I do not mean that, I mean why there is God even, of course let alone anything other than God. I know th thought is unthinkable, because how can you imagine nothing when there is something andand nobody can have been in existence without existence so that he-she-it whould ever have the possibility of having known nothing including a Creator or God. When I said nothing a mean no God, no nothing, nothing inexistence. Isn't that startling?
Salaam
Salaam,
Ok thank you I misunderstood.
RED Because He is The Existing. You may ask now, but why does The Existing exists and why does The Existing not exists? That is because He is The Existing by definition. And non-existing does not exists by definition, so trying to imagine why He exists instead of not-existing is forcing a circle to be square.
What I am trying to say, is that He is beyond our flawed thoughts.
"No God", "no nothing", "nothing nonexistence", are thoughts without a meaning they can not be defined. It's like you say why is there no not-apple? what is no not-apple? We know ONLY what is, what NOT is, we do not know.
But He knows yes
And when He wants no-not-no-no-not-not-no-non-non-non-not-no-existing to exists, it will be only 1 command and it wil exist yesSalaam,
Bender -
No, I know it cannot be, simply because it is not. But the thought of it is startling, the most awful thought one can have.
Salaam
RED yes I know, when I have that thoughts I conclude as fast as I can that He is Allah, and let it rest, otherwise it will drive me to insanity.
The why questions never end. On every why question, there is a why-why-question, it never ends. We can not go beyond some borders especially non existing borders -
It is like when we have a nightmare, we awake and are so relieved. I do not dwell in those thoughts but the little I think of it I find it so awful... and feel relieved that it i not so, that it cannot be so because it is already something else which makes it impossible and we do have REAL problems already that give us not teoretical but real headaches.
Thank God.
Salaam