THE TRUE QURANIC SHAHADA
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Bender,
Would you have preferred that I said "Muhammad (saas) as Allah's prophet and messenger and the Quran as Allah's message and revelation." Do you prefer that I use Allah over the word "God."
Our allegiance to Allah comes through Muhammad (saas) and the Quran, and what makes us Muslims is that Muhammad through/and the Quran is the vessel of our allegiance to Allah. This is what makes us distinct from the Hindu, the Christian, the Jew, the Buddhist, the Voudun practitioner, etc. etc. Otherwise, you're just talking about a Theist or a Deist and ANYONE who claims to follow Allah is a Deist/Theist. If you don't follow Allah through a book or a particular guide then you are called a Gnostic Theist/Deist. If you do it through Christ (saas) you are a Christian. If you do it through Israelite scriptures you are called a Jew. If you do it through Hindu scriptures you are called a Hindu, etc. etc.
I don't really see how you can miss these facts.
Salam
- Why we need to do an allegiance to Allah? If not to Allah is there any alternative? And what will Allah do with the allegiance?
- What if the allegiance is through Quran + Muhammad AND Christ AND Israeli Scripture AND Hindu Scriptures?
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You could think what you like about me.
I think you could have your own opinion, and I have my own.
For me it is clear that it is not righteous to let the same crimes (cheating & stealing) happened again and again, meanwhile the person knew and he had authority to stop those.
I really dislike such attitude, because I think that kind of attitude is a "disease" which happens in my country.
I do not want to defend something what is clearly wrong.
Even if you mentioned such thing 1000 times, my stance is not affected by your personal stance, insha'Allah, especially after I already read myself your words in Reply #13.
And I think it is good if you ever cared to remind those people (some of your family) to stop cheating and stealing. If they stole because of starvation for example, then I think it is better if they talk honest to the boss to ask for help/aid rather than continuously stealing.
I think I was/am going off topic, but I don't like if something seriously wrong like that is not straightened.
If we cheat and steal again and again and moreover think that our boss is so good because he lets us steal and cheat again and again => this is not right, this is seriously wrong.
And also, where is their sense of guilt!?
Salaam.
Salaam,
I still think you judge too hasty.
There is a good lesson in 3821 till 3826.Salaam,
Bender -
Layth, good logic and everyone else,
Read carefully. I took this from the Quran. You are not giving testimony that Muhammad (saas) is God's messenger. You are giving testimony that Muhammad, who is God's messenger, is true. This conforms with what the following verse says
"How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore TESTIMONY that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust." (Surah Al-Imran, 86)
"There is no god but/if not He That is the TESTIMONY of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice.There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise." (Surah Al-Imran, 1
Read the verses in English or read them in Arabic. It is still clear that the believers in the Quran bear testimony that there shall be no gods but God and they bear testimony that Muhammad, the messenger of Allah, is true.
As for saas, it means saws. sallaa allahu 3alayhi wa sallam, which means may God bless him and keep him.
As for those of you who follow books other than the Quran and also follow the Quran, if you believe that there should be no other gods but/without God and that Muhammad (saas) is God's messenger and that he is true, then what is the problem? Your belief in these two items sets you apart, and makes you apart of a demographic that is not Hindu, not Jewish, and not Christian but Muslim despite having found truth in all of the scriptures of these people.
Salaam
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Salaam, good_logic,
The other issue I have with "Mohammed (saas)" is What does "saas" mean?
I have asked this question numerous times and I have not got any logical /other answer that makes sense?
Can anyone enlighten me on its meaning? It just does not make sense to me !
"Saas" means "mother-in-law" in Hindi and Urdu.
Salaam.
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Good logic,
Great. I hope I cleared that up for you.
Salaam
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Peace As-Salaatayn.
Far from it Let me give you the context of 386
384
All these messengers brought the same message, "True Islam", why? carry on
385Hence "all brought true Islam" confirmed above
386"Qawmun" of every messenger "past,present and future Each messenger brings "Islam"- true submission" Hence those who witness the messenger are addressed here.This could also be witnesses of a future messenger, since all the true messengers confirm "true Islam" i,e submission to GOD Alone.
GOD is not asking us to "parrot" words that have no meaning He is asking us to believe by accepting the messenger and message when we witness the event of the coming of GOD s messenger.Now for "saas" you say it means blessings on the messenger, I say it has no meaning ,why?
GOD supported the messenger Mohammed and the Angels did also, So GOD is asking the believers to support him as well. The verse is not asking anyone to parrot words on the prophet.
The same as when GOD asked the believers not to raise their voices above that of the prophet. All these instructions were required when the prophet was alive. He is no longer alive ,hence we cannot physically support him nor are we able to raise our voice above his today!!!!
You see brother, Qoran does not instruct us to send blessings on the messenger, the word "yusalluna" just means support in that verse.Thank you for your post.
GOD bless you
Peace. -
Good logic,
Neither you or I are wrong about the idexcept in one thing. Why are we both right? Becaue al-rasool can mean 'the messengers, the message, the messenger or this messenger.' This is very simple for me to admit.
But your struggle is seeing where I am correct as well. As we know the messenger of God for our time is Muhammad (saas). Please don't think I am some traditionalist in hiding. The real struggle is for you to see the truth of what I am saying here, and that it is a step toward reconciliation as well.
Last but not least I can assure you that sallaa 3alaa and sallama do not mean support. God is telling us to pray for him/bless him as well as to salute him/wish peace on him. This is a fact, despite what most of my fellow Quranists WANT it (or don't want it) to be. We are to do this with all of God's prophets (saas).
Peace
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Last but not least I can assure you that sallaa 3alaa and sallama do not mean support. God is telling us to pray for him/bless him as well as to salute him/wish peace on him.
Do you mean to say he is not in peace? From my understanding, verse 3356 is telling us to show respect to the Prophet. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
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Prophecy is much more than having a person from time to time to speak revelations from God.
Also when the Qur'an says that Muhammad is the seal of prophets what does it mean and to what do we attest to if we declare that Muhammad is a prophet of His?
I think what is being acknowledge is the fact tht prophecy exists. The root r-s-l indicates that it is at work all the time. Prophecy is not the privilege of a few, it is a flow from God to humans all the time that these acknowledge. God is not cut off from humanity and humans are not in need of having at all times a particular person to tell them this or that.
God, his message his essence flows all the time from Him to humans. To some humans it flows so strongly that the message, like a river, overflows and fills the heart of other humans, but it is not something which has a wall and is kept for some. Muhammad, as the seal is the acknowledgemnt of prophecy to everybody who wishes to acknowledge, praise and express gratitude for it.
With these discussions about the shahada I have the same feeling as with those bizantyne discussions over the sex of angels, seem to me pure theoretical speculation over something that will not change anything at all however much we discuss it as if we were mastered the question, when, I think it goes beyond theortical formulations and is not bound by them.
I can't see how acknowledging prophecy for humanity is detracting from our aknowledgement of the fact that God is all there is and that everything is His and we ar also His and that nothing but nothing is but what God makes of it.
God does not risk loosing any status but we must know how we are connected to Him and praise that in his infinite Mercefulnes He made us aware of it.
I undersand this suspicion about mentionning the prophets comes from the demential exageration of imitating and praising Muhammad as if he were some kind of allpowerful "secretary" to God and therefore the way to get to Him, when of course God is there, here, all the time and nobody or anything is so, except that God wants us to feel some other presence, like may be the presence of a beloved that passed away or something, like a a gift from God to lighten our loss or things like that. Summing up all this is a need to acknowledge the essential unity of being, us with God and all the prophets and all the pwople and all that exists is one.
How can anything compete with God or how could we come to such an idea? I mean isn't that overworring about something impossible?
Salaam
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We all have the ability to prophesy but depending on our assimilation "In the deen".
Be safe
Amenuel -
Reel,
What is the greeting of the denizens of paradise?
Man of faith,
You should check what the Bible says about the original name for many "prophets." It says that most people later called prophets were just called 'seers' before that and they were not considered prophets. Prophet became an epithet for those who are not truly prophets.
A prophet bring information form the unknown and unseen world. So there can be prophets of any unkown being or thing. I'm sure many are prophets of Jinn. In Arabic nabeey comes from naba' or information. Tanabba' means to forecast. So a prophet of God has received information directly from God. If he is told to fullfill or spread it, he is a messenger of God.
Salaam.
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Prophet, the word, is supposed to mean a person who can predict the future. It is not synonymous with the Arabic Nabi even if people translate it as such. Nabi means insightful and it is quite synonymous with the Sanskrit word buddha.
The word prophet is used properly in the Bible but it fits poorly. As you said, "seer" could have been a better translation choice. "False seers" rather than "false prophets". It means they bring false insight (information).
It has been taught before how to recognize a false one. They will not live as they teach. They may ask for money. They may ask for hedonistic living.
Be safe
Amenuel -
Prophet, the word, is supposed to mean a person who can predict the future. It is not synonymous with the Arabic Nabi even if people translate it as such. Nabi means insightful and it is quite synonymous with the Sanskrit word buddha.
The word prophet is used properly in the Bible but it fits poorly. As you said, "seer" could have been a better translation choice. "False seers" rather than "false prophets". It means they bring false insight (information).
It has been taught before how to recognize a false one. They will not live as they teach. They may ask for money. They may ask for hedonistic living.
Isn't it kind of a prophecy when someone says that if we don't do good we will end up in hell?
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Isn't it kind of a prophecy when someone says that if we don't do good we will end up in hell?
Not really. Allah says that, and Allah knows everything (glorified is He). People just have faith in Allah. We can not verify that bad people go to Hell until we are dead. That's not quite the same thing as a prophecy really.
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Isn't it kind of a prophecy when someone says that if we don't do good we will end up in hell?
Depends on whether that person has any consciousness to be able to have any significant influence. If you speak of what people have said of old their words are distorted. You can also not change something which was prophesied in Genesis, you cannot overwrite an older prophecy.
Hell is a phenomenon which was invented much later and it did not truly exist in elder times. The first turn towards corruption was when the Jews spoke of a valley called GeHinnom, but they did not really know what they were talking about. This whole (physical) World is actually Gehennom, so right now you and me dwell in Gehennom. Our aim should be to get out of this mess and delusion and that is only possible by merging into the consciousness of Rabb, i.e. gain independence, become a recognized consciousness within or else one will remain among the dead (lifeless). One can think that people are alive in this World but in fact they are rather dead, swallowed by their own instincts in the Beast their soul is placed within. The only way is to go against the crowd and find their true self which is an image of Rabb.
In Genesis "Man was created in His image", i.e. the soul.
Be safe
Amenuel -
As for those of you who follow books other than the Quran and also follow the Quran, if you believe that there should be no other gods but/without God and that Muhammad (saas) is God's messenger and that he is true, then what is the problem? Your belief in these two items sets you apart, and makes you apart of a demographic that is not Hindu, not Jewish, and not Christian but Muslim despite having found truth in all of the scriptures of these people.
Why do you think there IS A NEED to set people apart?
Why do you think there IS A NEED to put a label on human as Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Christian? -
Jafar,
Because God tells those of us who believe in the Quran to prefer each other and to form a community apart by taking each other as awliyaa' of each other. And that we should not prefer those who do not believe in the Quran over those who do. The labels only represent reality.
Salaam
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Man of Faith,
I have found that the term 'oracle' is not only cooler but more accurate.
a a person (as a priestess of ancient Greece) through whom a deity is believed to speak
b a shrine in which a deity reveals hidden knowledge or the divine purpose through such a person
c an answer or decision given by an oracle
2
a a person giving wise or authoritative decisions or opinions
b an authoritative or wise expression or answerhttp//www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oracle
Salaam
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Not really. Allah says that, and Allah knows everything (glorified is He). People just have faith in Allah. We can not verify that bad people go to Hell until we are dead. That's not quite the same thing as a prophecy really.
But isn't it like Quran gives certain examples of things that would lead us to hell?
Hell is a phenomenon which was invented much later and it did not truly exist in elder times. The first turn towards corruption was when the Jews spoke of a valley called GeHinnom, but they did not really know what they were talking about. This whole (physical) World is actually Gehennom, so right now you and me dwell in Gehennom. Our aim should be to get out of this mess and delusion and that is only possible by merging into the consciousness of Rabb, i.e. gain independence, become a recognized consciousness within or else one will remain among the dead (lifeless). One can think that people are alive in this World but in fact they are rather dead, swallowed by their own instincts in the Beast their soul is placed within. The only way is to go against the crowd and find their true self which is an image of Rabb.
In Genesis "Man was created in His image", i.e. the soul.
Be safe
AmenuelThank you for the explanation of MOF. I will have to research more on it. Haven't made up my mind. By the way, I am talking about GeHinnom. It is possible that they spoke of it just like that, but again, we can't deny the fact that they did receive message from God.
When it comes to hell, I would stick to what Quran says.
Hell should torture all the bad people without discrimination. But this is not the case in this world. Rothschilds, Bush family and the likes are having a pretty good time here.
peace