Why dating is halal (including sex)
-
@Jafar
It is not a matter of forbidding or enforcing, it is a matter of obeying the Quran. I simply intended to illustrate that dating is not contradictory to the Quran's commandments. -
Hello fish_launcher
I had similar problems with the term marriage and the rituals involved.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608060.msg380032#msg380032I believe marriage has nothing to do with how religion and culture portrays it. It is extremely straightforward but thanks to human nature, we like to complicate something as basic as a marriage. Man-made laws and over-complications doesn't stop there. Something as basic as eating and drinking is made a fuss of. Religious people argue whether this food or drink is haram or halal, which hand is haram to use when eating and which leg to use to enter the toilet. Soon they will be arguing about which oxygen particles are haram and halal to inhale.
-
@Jafar
It is not a matter of forbidding or enforcing, it is a matter of obeying the Quran. I simply intended to illustrate that dating is not contradictory to the Quran's commandments.Marriage exist even before the Quran was written down...
It's not a matter of obeying the Quran.
It's a matter of general social welfare.. and survivability..My point is For female who are living in a patriarchal society.. pre marital sex (for them) is generally bad.
There's no guarantee that her male partner will stay with her when she become pregnant.It's similar as Start working without a contract.. there's no guarantee that you will eventually get paid by your employer for your work. But in the end it's left to each individual judgement to make such decision.
-
Yeah, you did miss something
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htm
What does The Quran say on the age of marriage?
The Quran does not state a specific legal age of marriage, however it does give a guideline and mentions situations and conditions that should be considered before marriage
Determining mutual attraction/compatibility
Ascertaining whether the potential partner is of similar beliefs/faith
Discussion of and agreeing to the level of dower and other terms (if any)
Understanding and mutual acceptance of marriage as a solemn/strong oath/contract
If male, capable of providing for the family/household
To have physically matured / post-puberty
To have the marriage contract/oaths witnessedIf the marriage is unsuccessful, one should also be capable of undertaking divorce proceedings, e.g. separation period, arbitration, discussion of settlement etc .
-
Dating in western culture refers to meeting the partner in public. I know it is lost in translation now, but that is the original meaning. I agree that the Quran pretty much supports that. We are to not take secret lovers. Sorry forgot the number of the verse. I still have trouble connecting dating with sexual acts though. Not everyone who dates is having sex.
The difference between "dating" and "marriage" in Western culture is that marriage begins with a large ceremony, and is expected to last until death. In the Quran, marriage is neither of those things. The guidelines for marriage is thus, courtesy of @Wakas
You got that wrong. In western culture, marriage begins with signing the contract/buying the marriage license. That whole large ceremony thing is not compulsory. In some countries, if the partners are living together for years they are considered married. But that's just about being lenient.
-
It is not a matter of forbidding or enforcing, it is a matter of obeying the Quran. I simply intended to illustrate that dating is not contradictory to the Quran's commandments.
You have to first define your understanding of dating in detail.
Many people have different interpretations in the West about what is considered dating.
There is certainly a minuscule minority of people that do not engage in sexual activities while they are dating.
In the West sex with a partner prior to marriage is a testing requirement. Kind of like test driving a car. You want to ensure that it handles well and feels good; all punts intended.
I do not believe that the West definition of "dating" by any means fits with the Message of the Quran.
If that is what you believe because of your perverse interpretation I would refrain completely from claiming that you are illustrating that the Quran is not contradictory to "dating".
I have chosen to oppose you firmly despite what you meant by dating because the obvious majority indulges into promiscuity and because you failed to properly fine in your terms and through proper Quranic evidence the type of dating you think it supports.Dating leads to promiscuity, rape, over sexualized culture constantly competing for attention.
Marriage is there to support the structure of family. It is important for children to be in a good structured household.
Many children in the West lack that and we can see the results as we are speaking.
Children lost in this generation! Disrespectful to their parents, adults and each other beyond what is acceptable, engaging in sexual activities way on early, egoistic, self-centered, materialistic, superficial and tossed into gender fluidity and sexual orientation confusion.That is what you are essentially advocating for brother
Peace
-
You have to first define your understanding of dating in detail.
Many people have different interpretations in the West about what is considered dating.
There is certainly a minuscule minority of people that do not engage in sexual activities while they are dating.
In the West sex with a partner prior to marriage is a testing requirement. Kind of like test driving a car. You want to ensure that it handles well and feels good; all punts intended.By "dating", I meant a mutual, romantic, but not necessarily permanent relationship between two people, often accompanied by sexual activity. Sch relations are reminiscent of the husband/wife dynamic (without necessarily cohabitation), but are not culturally considered marriage. By this, I exclude the exploitative form of dating that you may be referring to below."
I do not believe that the West definition of "dating" by any means fits with the Message of the Quran. If that is what you believe because of your perverse interpretation I would refrain completely from claiming that you are illustrating that the Quran is not contradictory to "dating".
Why not? I simply proposed that nikah can take place with no need for a culturally sanctioned "marriage", which other people would see as dating.I have chosen to oppose you firmly despite what you meant by dating because the obvious majority indulges into promiscuity and because you failed to properly fine in your terms and through proper Quranic evidence the type of dating you think it supports.
I suppose I should have done that earlier. Well, I'm doing it now.Dating leads to promiscuity, rape, over sexualized culture constantly competing for attention.
Marriage is there to support the structure of family. It is important for children to be in a good structured household.
Many children in the West lack that and we can see the results as we are speaking.Or, perhaps, a patriarchal culture that exploits women to the point of using their naked bodies to sell burgers. I agree that it is important to respect your partner, but I believe it is also important to reject cultural scripts and Islamic innovations that serve no purpose. And while I see nothing wrong with having multiple partners (over the course of one's lifetime), rape has existed in nearly every society, and sexual objectification has existed in every culture where the primary purpose of women was seen to please men. It is not a byproduct of dating, it is a symptom of a toxic patriarchy.
Children lost in this generation! Disrespectful to their parents, adults and each other beyond what is acceptable, engaging in sexual activities way on early, egoistic, self-centered, materialistic, superficial and tossed into gender fluidity and sexual orientation confusion.
"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.? -Socrates
"..a fearful multitude of untutored savages... with dogs at their heels and other evidence of dissolute habits... drive coal-carts, ride astride upon horses, drink, swear, fight, smoke, whistle, and care for nobody...the morals of children are tenfold worse than formerly." 7th Earl of Shaftesbury, 1842
"Whither are the manly vigor and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt..." Anonymous - 1771
"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress." Peter the Hermit, 1274 A.DChildren were lost in every generation, brother
-
Well, it is worse than ever now, fish_launcher
-
Yeah, you did miss something
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htm
What does The Quran say on the age of marriage?
The Quran does not state a specific legal age of marriage, however it does give a guideline and mentions situations and conditions that should be considered before marriage
Determining mutual attraction/compatibility
Ascertaining whether the potential partner is of similar beliefs/faith
Discussion of and agreeing to the level of dower and other terms (if any)
Understanding and mutual acceptance of marriage as a solemn/strong oath/contract
If male, capable of providing for the family/household
To have physically matured / post-puberty
To have the marriage contract/oaths witnessedIf the marriage is unsuccessful, one should also be capable of undertaking divorce proceedings, e.g. separation period, arbitration, discussion of settlement etc .
the age of man hood is 40 but when it comes to marriage it's just lots of responsibility so what was the age of Prophet abraham's son when he reached the age of work with him? or the age of talut also spoken of in the quran when he was choosen to lead the people.
also with physical maturity there are body changes that happen after sexually intercourse like needing a wheel chair.
lolz no but once a woman can dispense eggs she's a woman, if a chicken can lay eggs you don't wait a while for the eggs to be just "right" (according to your views of the perfect chicken and the perfect egg) you get cracking. the law is literally incorrect about regulating how many children you can have and what age you can have them at."Metamorphosis is a biological process by which an animal physically develops after birth or hatching, involving a conspicuous and relatively abrupt change in the animal's body structure through cell growth and differentiation"
if someone goes astray for set purpose "let" them, we were human beings before democracy and will be after it it should not change our mating habits, that's a bit against nature.
-
the age of man hood is 40 but when it comes to marriage it's just lots of responsibility so what was the age of Prophet abraham's son when he reached the age of work with him? or the age of talut also spoken of in the quran when he was choosen to lead the people.
also with physical maturity there are body changes that happen after sexually intercourse like needing a wheel chair.
lolz no but once a woman can dispense eggs she's a woman, if a chicken can lay eggs you don't wait a while for the eggs to be just "right" (according to your views of the perfect chicken and the perfect egg) you get cracking. the law is literally incorrect about regulating how many children you can have and what age you can have them at."Metamorphosis is a biological process by which an animal physically develops after birth or hatching, involving a conspicuous and relatively abrupt change in the animal's body structure through cell growth and differentiation"
if someone goes astray for set purpose "let" them, we were human beings before democracy and will be after it it should not change our mating habits, that's a bit against nature.
I've not been following this discussion, but having read what you wrote, are you suggesting that an 8/9 year old girl should be engaging in sexual intercourse as long as she has started menstruating?
