THE TEMPLE OF GOD IN THE QURAN
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Peace,
Most of this is covered in the term 3umrah.
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peace
Innovators? Please provide step-by-step guides from the complete and detailed book(Quran) on how to perform the Hajj ritual WITHOUT performing mental gymnastics. The Verses you quoted DO NOT indicate a physical Hajj ritual. Does The Reading(Quran) tell you to walk around a stone cube idol 7 times, run between two rock outcropping deities 7 times, kiss a black stone to get sins wiped and drink holy zamzam water?
mental gymnastics because your mind is not willing to accept the truth. Read your Quran, Maybe Allah will show you what from those innovations you speak of is truth and what is lies. Most of it is false, but not all.
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Peace wakas
Words in all languages have many meanings depending in the context they are being spoken, and the Arabic is not exception. Words are also used as metaphors and similes where words get a special meaning that it is attached to the story being narrated, as in many verses in the Quran.
You claim "maqam" means "Station/house/standing place/box/temple/sanctuary/
I did not claim it means that. what I was trying to say was that whatever translation you give, to me is clear what it is.
I never claimed that maqam only means physical. Maqam mean many things, but maqam Abraham in that particular verse, is a place, in a desert valley, surrounded by people. Therefore, in this case, it is physical.
Arabic dictionaries give many related meanings to this words, but you take the only exception to the rule, even though it creates contradictions in the Quran's message. but you do not know this, because the word is not in your heart. Shaitan inspires you, but shaitan is a liar.
396 The first Sanctuary established for the people is the one in Bakk?a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.
397 In it are clear signs the station of Abraham. And whoever entersit will be secure. And God is owed from the people to make Pilgrimage to the Sanctuary, whoever can make a path to it. And whoever rejects, then God has no need of the worlds.
even the way you put it, I still see that "maqam abraham" is a synonym of "The first Sanctuary established for the people." I do not understand why you see it as a different thing.synonym= A word or expression that serves as a figurative or symbolic substitute for another
Please reply to the above, and we shall find out what you can or cannot see.
I can see clearly what you mean, glory be to God that opened my eyes, but that does not mean that I accept it, for it contradicts God's message.
The innovators are making a big effort to twist the word of God in order to make it all spiritual, such as Paul's Christianity, then they will claim that it is faith that matters and not actions, at least their twisted meaning of faith.
May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
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http//www.quranaloneislam.net/hajj-and-umrah-3
http//www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=653
This is the site that I like the most
http//www.detailedquran.com/quran_data/Hajj%20in%20the%20Quran.htm
But Quranists have not realized that although the sacred months are 4, the months of pilgrimage are 3.
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wrkmm,
I asked you 3 questions.
Question Is deen a physical building/place? Yes/No.
You admitted words can have different meanings depending upon context. Thus, indirectly admitting your simplistic reasoning i.e. the verse used enter/dakhala so it clearly means physical place, was proven weak as per Quran.
You admitted "maqam" can mean many things and IN YOUR OPINION it means a physical place in that verse. Note how you provided no other Quranic evidence of this whatsoever.
You failed to answer.
And you result to insult, with a baseless claim that "shaitan" inspires me. I generally find that in discussion if someone has no sound argument they resort to fallacious argument, e.g. insult/ad hominen. Thank you for letting readers see your character.
I recommend reading that article I linked to.
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Peace wakas
You thank me, but I thank God that He is showing our true faces. I hope you have enjoyed your revenge, and that blocking my account, and banning me from the forum for all this time, has satisfied your ego. You did not have to flex your muscle to show your power here, I knew from the beginning that you are of the leadership of free-minds. You people had threatened me of this in the past. You disliked that I said that Satan inspires in the unbelievers heart, but if somebody is not being guided by Allah, then who is guiding him/her. The truth is the truth, not mater who hates it.
The answer is clear; we can not be both in the right path. One of us is selling a lie, and one of us is giving the truth as it was given to him.
494O you who believe! when you go forth in Allah's way, make investigation, and do not say to any one who offers you peace You are not a believer.
Believers are not arrogant; come in truth and The-truth in them; do not fear censorship; bear with patience whatever the ignorant throw at them; do not seeks the ignorant-ones(like= E deep junk sell); you shall certainly recognize them for the word they speak.The fact that you belong to a sect is more than enough evidence against you.
Matthew 73"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
There is no point in continuing this discussion with you, for maybe those buying rotten fruit from the sects will listen, but you are of the sellers, you will not listen; unless Allah wills it. Therefore, peace woman.
279 Woe, then, unto those who write down, with their own hands, divine writ, and then say. "This is from God," in order to acquire a trifling gain thereby; woe, then, unto them for what their hands have written, and woe unto them for all that they may have gained!May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
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Peace more verses
Translating the Qura?n should not be taken lightly, but it shall be taken with the greatest fear, for there is a great punishment for those who invent lies about Allah. Not that it is an easy task, except if God wills it, because those who claim to obey the Quran have become very perverted people, and have manipulated the words for so long, that now it seems that nobody knows the real meaning of many words. Also, the tense in the interpretations/translations is very corrupted. Translators, even in word by word Qurans, seem to force the already established interpretations of verses into the translation. Furthermore, it is as if every body is interpreting at will, as if the Arabic had no rules as a language. And many, instead of following the rules, they base their interpretations in ancient interpretations, which is outrageous.
lilnas qyama al-haram al-bayt al-ka?bah Allah ja?al ---
... for-*-men straight/upright the-forbidden the-house the-Ka?bah the-God made 597min w-atkhidwa wa-amna lilnas mathabah al-bayt ja?alna wain ----
of so-you-shall-take and-safety for-*-men gathering-place/reward the-house we-have-made and-lo! 2125wa-isma?yl ibrahym aly wa?ahidna musaly ibrahym maqam
and-Isma?yl Abrahym on and-we-covenanted prayerplace Abrahym stationwa-al-ruk?u wa-al-?akifyn lil-taifyn bayty tahara an
and-the-bow-down and-the-devotees for-the- circumambulating-ones my-house purify thatal-sujwd
the-prostrationThe arabic text copied in the wrong order here. I hope you understand it.
May God have mercy on me if my translation has errors.
maqam translates in the quran in this form of the root and its closest as ?position,station, standing?.I interpret this verse in to ways, and I accept both when I read the verse
You shall take the place/station/position/standing of Abraham in place of prayer 1 believers shall take the house/kabah as the one temple for the one God, just as the Israelites had the one temple in Jerusalem. 2 Believers shall take the position of Abraham in the prayerplace; in status /standing, this meaning that in a way they are agreeing to same covenant and responsibilities that Abraham agreed.Interpretation by Muhamad Asad and more verses
2125 AND LO! We made the Temple a goal to which people might repair again and again, and a sanctuary take then, the place whereon Abraham once stood as your place of prayer." And thus did We command Abraham and Ishmael "Purify My Temple for those who will walk around it, and those who will abide near it in meditation, and those who will bow down and prostrate themselves."
2126 And, lo, Abraham prayed "O my Sustainer! Make this a land secure, and grant its people fruitful sustenance - such of them as believe in God and the Last Day." answered "And whoever shall deny the truth, him will I let enjoy himself for a short while - but in the end I shall drive him to suffering through fire and how vile a journey's end!"
2127 And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the Temple, "O our Sustainer! Accept Thou this from us for, verily, Thou alone art all-hearing, all-knowing!
2128 "O our Sustainer! Make us surrender ourselves unto Thee, and make out of our offspring a
community that shall surrender itself unto Thee, and show us our ways of worship, and accept
our repentance for, verily, Thou alone art the Acceptor of Repentance, the Dispenser of Grace!
2226 For, when we assigned unto Abraham the site of this Temple...
2791 SAY, "I have been bidden to worship the Sustainer of this City - Him who has made it sacred, and unto whom all things belong; and I have been bidden to be of those who surrender themselves to Him, (2792) and to convey this Qur'an ." Whoever, therefore, chooses to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good; and if any wills to go astray, say "I am only a warner!"May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
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wrkmmm - Salaam. You made a number of assertions in your original post that I didn't understand. The location of the Temple is an important subject for me, so I'd be grateful if you could help me understand your reasoning.
You said that the "lands of Israel are lands that flow milk and honey, not infertile like the ones around the Sacred Temple" as evidence that the temple must not be in Jerusalem. The verse you quoted says "I have settled some of my offspring in a valley in which there is no arable land, close to Thy sanctified Temple". I see your point, but you can not be certain that every valley near to the Temple Mount was arable. Some may have been rocky or prone to flooding or have contained too much clay. There's lots of reasons why a plot might not be arable. Your logic seems far too simplistic here.
Your second point was that "there is no evidence that a people called Quraysh had existed in a place other than Makah". As far as I know, there is not a shred of evidence (beyond the hadith) that a people called Quraysh existed at Makkah either. And besides, a lack of proof that something is true does not prove that it isn't.
You then assert that the "infidels that expelled the believers had power over the Sacred House, and worshiped in it", which "means that the valley of Makah and Bakah, were either very close, or they both are the same place". I don't see how that is logical at all.
You then state quite rudely that the "ignorant argue that the Sacred House is not the Kabah in Makah/Bakah, thus, saying that even prophet Muhamad made pilgrimage during his whole life to the wrong place. How deluded is their mind". You failed to offer your evidence that Mohammed ever made pilgrimage to Arabia.
I have four questions for you, but you would only need to provide a compelling answer to any one of the four to convince me that you are correct about the location of the Temple. Could you answer one of these four questions convincingly please?
What proves that every valley in Jerusalem was arable?
What proves that the Quraysh lived in Arabia?
How does the fact that the infidel controlled the Temple prove that Makkah and Bacca are near to each other?
What evidence do you have that Mohammed made pilgrimage to Arabia specifically?Thanks.
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PEACE
I was banned for a month now. May God humble down this people, and then we will be brothers in Islam.God loves those who are 554? humble towards the believers, proud towards all who deny the truth who strive hard in God's cause, and do not fear to be censured by anyone who might censure them such is God's favour, which He grants unto whom He wills. And God is infinite, all-knowing.
1784 Say "Everyone acts in a manner peculiar to himself - and your Sustainer is fully aware as to who has chosen the best path."
Those who are against The Truth will be the losers. -
PEACE CSmith
All your answers are in the verses of Quran. Reread the original post and the additional posted verses, because you did not see anything, and it is not I who is putting a veil over your eyes. Focus in the Quran verses not in my words. Do not look for the truth in my words, that will be associating (shirk); look for it in the verses of Quran. What is there and in the additional posted verses is all that has been shown to me from the Quran regarding the temple?s location by my lord, and that is enough for me. Read the verses from your Quran, at night when there is less distraction, as God advises, and after praying to your lord to show you the truth, and wait, and be patient. If God wills, HE will give you what you want, if you are truthful.
4144?Say "Unto all who have attained to faith, this is a guidance and a source of health; but as for those who will not believe in their ears is deafness, and so it remains obscure to them they are , the while it only adds to the ruin of evildoers.
My posts are not to make the blind see; they are just an invitation to read Quran. Then, God will open the book to whomever He wills of His humble slaves, and show them the truth. And, as for those that the Quran does not suffice you/meets your requirements, ask your Lord to came and point the location of the temple to you, and if He does, please share it with me.
The temple is an essential part of the Covenant of obedience for those who truly believe; As It was for the Children of Israel their temple. The one that after years of moving around in the lands of Israel, ended up being built of stone in Jerusalem, then demolished, then rebuilt, and then destroyed again and its foundation given to another people. The word fulfilled, and the temple was taken from them until they say; blessed be the one that comes in the name of the lord, which includes P. Mohamed. Therefore, if the Jews were to obey the word of God, then they will have a temple. However, it will be the House chosen by The Wise, God, for this generation. Because, the location of the temple is whatever God ordains it to be, and He can change it at will. Therefore, for those who lost it, you should hurry in finding it, because you are at fault in many of what you are commanded.
Read your Quran, Torah, Bible, and Gospel, God will show you the light among the darkness of man corruption. I am not responsible for you.
May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
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PEACE
MORE VERSES
(427) Thus have We revealed to you an Arabic Qur?an that you may warn the Mother of the Towns and those around it, and warn of the Day of Gathering, in which there is no doubt, a part will be in paradise and a part will be in the Blaze.
The Israelites did not speak Arabic , neither the Egyptians, nor the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Romans, or the Persians. According to ancient maps, the only place left is the desert of the Araba, known nowadays as the Arabian Desert. So, for those who have lost what has been ordained for this generation of souls, search there for what you have lost.
May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
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PEACE
as for those who say that Hj is argument
hj(as root word) pilgrimage, visit, head fracture, proof, argue, year(hjj).
hj(noun)pilgrimage
haj (verb) to visit, to argue.
hjh/t (noun) visitation , argument.However, this does not mean that alhj, hj, hj albayt (pilgrimage), shall be translated as argument. Take the English word ?race,? it has two total different meanings. 1 swift movement run, compete, competition, etc. 2 related to people lineage, clan, subspecies, variety, etc. Then, the meaning of the word in a verse totally depends on the discourse surrounding it (context) to determine the exact meaning. Therefore, the word HJ is no different, except that the discourse surrounding it, it is the Quran as a whole, and the meaning is clarified by Allah.
Use your reason brothers. People do not take provisions to an argument, argue in special months, has sex during arguments, hunt animals, or do fishing. Do not let the shaitans delude your mind.
May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
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peace
@Wakas, don't know that you like to debate a brickwall and a hardcore sunni takfiri to boot bravo To claim that some brother who has been doing his best to facilitate the study of the Qur'an easier with all the tools and other resources, as someone inspired by shaitan, is just mindbogling.
@wrkmmm
" O ye who believe! Enter into Islam whole-heartedly; and follow not the footsteps of the evil one; for he is to you an avowed enemy".(220. Does "Udkhulu" in this verse means enter into a physical islam?Re Maqam Ibrahim- does it mean status, standing or stance of Ibrahim ( regarding The One-ness of Allah)? And how can one enter a holy foot print in a large bird-cage be entered into and be safe?
What makes you so certain that Ibrahim and his wife and son was ever in Makkah or near it? Have you a quranic evidence regarding this? Please check out this verse and reflect on it.
" [bBut We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners. (3444). So, if you think the messenger of Allah Muhammad resided in Makkah, you would know from this verse that there were never any other messenger/warner sent to the area prior to him.
Peace
almarh0m
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Peace almarh0m
" [bBut We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners. (3444). So, if you think the messenger of Allah Muhammad resided in Makkah, you would know from this verse that there were never any other messenger/warner sent to the area prior to him.
First none of the books previous to quran is addressed to the Arabs and world.
Second the prophets that walked in the arab lands before muhamad did not have as their mission to be warners to the arabs or world, if you but know their story.
Third The temple was not ordained to be built for the Arabs, but it was built by Abraham's own initiative.not because Jesus walked in the cities of the Samaritans means that he was a messenger sent unto them as warner.
May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
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Peace
Peace almarh0m
First none of the books previous to quran is addressed to the Arabs and world.
Second the prophets that walked in the arab lands before muhamad did not have as their mission to be warners to the arabs or world, if you but know their story.
Third The temple was not ordained to be built for the Arabs, but it was built by Abraham's own initiative.not because Jesus walked in the cities of the Samaritans means that he was a messenger sent unto them as warner.
May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
Firstly, I would like to remind you that all of Allah's messages/books are addressed to all man-kind in their respective languages and by messengers from their own people. Secondly, every messenger is obliged to convey the message of Allah to anyone who is in contact with them. Please remember that messengers were/are sent as mercy to mankind. For you to claim that Ibrahim the messenger of Allah was living in Makkah with his family and yet ignored the local inhabitants when it comes to conveying Allah's message, is borne of sheer ignorance. Are the local Arab inhabitants Neanderthals or sub-human? Not deserving or worthy of being told the truth from their creator? Here is a clear verse informing us that RasulAllah Ibrahim was appointed an Imam for man-kind.
" Waithi ibtala ibraheema rabbuhu bikalimatin faatammahunna qala innee jaAAiluka lilnnasi imaman qala wamin thurriyyatee qala la yanalu AAahdee alththalimeena".
"And (remember) when his Lord tried Abraham with (His) commands, and he fulfilled them, He said Lo! I have appointed thee a leader for mankind. (Abraham) said And of my offspring (will there be leaders)? He said My covenant includeth not wrong-doers". ( 2124).
Now, according to your reasoning, would an Imam for mankind appointed by Allah failed to do what he was sent for? Even those of us mere mortals who consider himself/herself muslim and mukmin would find it their duty to remind people about Allah's message where-ever they are living when they are asked. For people can see others from their deeds and actions not what they labelled themselves. Don't you think that the Meccans would be curious about Ibrahim and his family residing among themselves and no social interactions between them.
In respect of your second point, you seem to be singling out prophet Muhammad to be put on a pedestal to be adored over and above other prophets/messengers, even though Ibrahim and Musa were called Imam (Leader) for mankind.
In respect of your 3rd point, it is possible that prophet Ibrahim and his son built The Kaaba or Cube building on his own initiative but it is highly unlikely that a properly guided messenger would erect such Idol to mislead people, considering that he believed in idol-free way of life.
Concerning your other point regarding the Arabs and Arabic language, Rasul-Allah Muhammad may not be the first to received revelation in Arabic, as the word Arabic may means other thing such as "clear language". It is worth considering as we can see in this verse
"Wamin qablihi kitabu moosa imaman warahmatan wahatha kitabun musaddiqun lisanan AAarabiyyan liyunthira allatheena thalamoo wabushra lilmuhsineena'.
" When before it there was the Scripture of Moses, an example and a mercy; and this is a confirming Scripture in the Arabic language, that it may warn those who do wrong and bring good tidings for the righteous.
. (4612)
As for your assertion that Isa al Masih is Jesus, is highly questionable, whereas Isa of the Qur'an is a real historical figure, Jesus on the other hand is a mythical being copied from other older religions and christianized him.
By the way, regarding verses disputing presence of prophets/messengers in Makkah or its surrounding prior to Muhammad can be found in these 3444 (already cited), 32/3, 362-6 and 2846.
Didn't you say that you have read seven translations of The Qur'an? There is a saying that , "it is not how much you have read, but how much you have grasped". As muslims, Allah and his messengers encourage us to seek knowledge, to observe, to listen and to read and take the best or the truth from what we have heard and seen for the truth is from Allah. Being quranists we have to use our minds and hearts, which means to use our senses and faculty of reasoning in order to received guidance as well as being sincere in our words and actions.
Peace
almarh0m
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Peace alarmon
Firstly, I would like to remind you that all of Allah's messages/books are addressed to all man-kind in their respective languages and by messengers from their own people.
Show me evidence from torah, psalms, gospel, quran, if you are truthful.
to claim that Ibrahim the messenger of Allah was living in Makkah with his family and yet ignored the local inhabitants when it comes to conveying Allah's message, is borne of sheer ignorance.
Show your evidence that the temple was built for the makans, or if even maka existed as a city at the time. Maybe Abraham chose that place because it was so barren that very few would be interested about bothering it there, only God Knows. Who said Abraham lived in maka, first read the Holy Books, then come with your claims, so who is the ignorant here.
I have appointed thee a leader for mankind. said And of my offspring? He said My covenant includeth not wrong-doers".
If it does not includes the wrongdoers from his offspring, what makes you think that includes the people of maka, if such people existed at the time.
Matthew 39-10 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ?We have Abraham as our father.? 10 For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
Show your evidence, where it says that he was going to be a, leader/example to follow, exclusive for his generation of souls.Now, according to your reasoning
I do not judge according to my desires like you, but according to what I have between my hands, Torah-bible-Quran.
In respect of your second point, you seem to be singling out prophet Muhammad to be put on a pedestal to be adored over and above other prophets/messengers, even though Ibrahim and Musa were called Imam (Leader) for mankind.
You are the one doing what you accuse me of. I do not make difference between prophets. to me they are no more than humans graced by our Lord, and their reward is with Allah, I do not owe them anything.
it is possible that prophet Ibrahim and his son built The Kaaba or Cube building on his own initiative but it is highly unlikely that a properly guided messenger would erect such Idol to mislead people, considering that he believed in idol-free way of life.
temples dedicated to the worship of Allah are not an Idols you ignorant folk. If people Idolizes them, it is not the fault of the builders.
Being quranists we have to use our minds and hearts,
I am not a disbeliever quranist. Quranist have no basis in the quran. I am a servant of Allah, a Muslim.
Concerning your other point regarding the Arabs and Arabic language, Rasul-Allah Muhammad may not be the first to received revelation in Arabic, as the word Arabic may means other thing such as "clear language".
If we twist the words to fit our desires, then we can get whatever we want.
and this is a confirming Scripture in the Arabic language
This does not means that the previous scripture was in the same Arabic language. Go ask the Ch. of Israel, they will lough of you.
As for your assertion that Isa al Masih is Jesus, is highly questionable, whereas Isa of the Qur'an is a real historical figure, Jesus on the other hand is a mythical being copied from other older religions and christianized him.
This are your own inventions, which contradict the main Idea/purpose in the word of God. Beginning in the torah and ending with the Quran. The first confirms the second, and the second confirms the first, one is evidence of the other, if you but knew it. I only exclude shaitan Paul's writings in the bible, and letters attributed to P. Jesus disciples.
hich means to use our senses and faculty of reasoning in order to received guidance as well as being sincere in our words and actions.
You use to much poetry, but little evidence.
May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
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Peace wrkmmm
Peace alarmon
Show me evidence from torah, psalms, gospel, quran, if you are truthful.Show your evidence that the temple was built for the makans, or if even maka existed as a city at the time. Maybe Abraham chose that place because it was so barren that very few would be interested about bothering it there, only God Knows. Who said Abraham lived in maka, first read the Holy Books, then come with your claims, so who is the ignorant here.
If it does not includes the wrongdoers from his offspring, what makes you think that includes the people of maka, if such people existed at the time.
Matthew 39-10 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ?We have Abraham as our father.? 10 For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
Show your evidence, where it says that he was going to be a, leader/example to follow, exclusive for his generation of souls.I do not judge according to my desires like you, but according to what I have between my hands, Torah-bible-Quran. You are the one doing what you accuse me of. I do not make difference between prophets. to me they are no more than humans graced by our Lord, and their reward is with Allah, I do not owe them anything. temples dedicated to the worship of Allah are not an Idols you ignorant folk. If people Idolizes them, it is not the fault of the builders.
I am not a disbeliever quranist. Quranist have no basis in the quran. I am a servant of Allah, a Muslim.If we twist the words to fit our desires, then we can get whatever we want.
This does not means that the previous scripture was in the same Arabic language. Go ask the Ch. of Israel, they will lough of you.This are your own inventions, which contradict the main Idea/purpose in the word of God. Beginning in the torah and ending with the Quran. The first confirms the second, and the second confirms the first, one is evidence of the other, if you but knew it. I only exclude shaitan Paul's writings in the bible, and letters attributed to P. Jesus disciples.You use to much poetry, but little evidence.May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
Why would I give you evidence from Torah, Psalm and Gospel when you know none of the genuine Quranist believe in the Bible whether it is The New or The Old Testament? We are discussing evidence from the Qur'an which you totally ignored. For your information The Old Testament is not The Taurat nor is The New Testament = The Injil.
Since you totally ignored all the evidence from The Qur'an, I shall not engage in any thread that you post in, I don't enjoy wasting my time talking to a brickwall. But before I leave you to your Bible, I would just like to remind you to learn 1. What is the duty of a messenger. 2. Has Allah's message over the millennia changed in substance at all ( you have quoted some verses regarding this) and finally, please read 6114-115 and think.
Peace
almarhom
