Happy to have found a community.

Invalid777

welcome Study

All humans are students. Our job on earth is to learn. We are here to grow spiritually and learn from the mistakes we make. The rabbit hole goes very deep. Keep going and you will find the answers.

Study

I am more A ' rabic than I look.

Sorry. Didn't mean to offend you. -X
Turns out I'm more superficial than I thought. brickwall Learned something new I guess (hope)

The current times
Well at the moment, somebody with whole lot of $$$ from selling oil is spending Billion of $$$ to do hate campaign all around the world towards a specific group called the Shiiites...

I'm guessing the rich ones are Saudis? I seriously need to step up my political understanding. Far too ignorant when it comes to global affairs.
God knows how much I could develop if I'd widen my knowledge in this area.

And I share your opinion about profession of faith...
None of the profession of faith from any religion is appealing for me...

Which reminds of something philosophical I'd been wondering about, I guess I'll open a new topic regarding the issue of religion in and of itself.

I believe that we shouldn't differentiate people based on their religion, ethnicity and nationality..
It's their actual deed that count..

They profess Muhammad is a messenger.. fine.. they profess muhammad is not a messenger fine..
They profess Ali has a 10 inch "sword" fine.... they profess Krishna's true color is blue.. fine
Because truly it doesn't matter..

Thanks for holding me a mirror in my face.
Actually had to sit down for a moment and reflect on these words.
"For you your way, and for me my way" (1096)
Can't force people to think/believe or act your way.
I've said it myself at the beginning of this topic, so hypocritical of me. elektro
"No matter how much you believe to know, or how correct you think you are, there is always the possibility that you may be mistaken."

Thanks @Invalid777 @Bender
)

parvez_mushtaq

Hi all, peace be with you all.
I am so glad to have found an active community in which I can, hopefully, share my thoughts.
Tried finding forums like this one in which people argue with logic, the only other forum I had found was like a desert. nope

To me, I'm from a "shia" background. Shia in quotation marks, because I never really practiced religion the way I should have.
Hopefully that'll change. )
The reason I named myself study is because (I didn't feel like using my real name ;D) I've got so much to learn. And I believe all of us do.
No matter how much you believe to know, or how correct you think you are, there is always the possibility that you may be mistaken.
Here I go lecturing people while introducing myself, haha, sorry about that. rotfl
Let's hope that my nickname reminds me to never be closed-minded, and I hope that Allah may expand/open my chest. (I believe that's what the expression stands for).

Btw. I don't know arabic, and hope to have my many questions answered here pr
Linguistic arguments/reasons would be real cool, but I'm thankfull for every reply.

Peace
sun

Assalamualaikum Rahamatullahi Wbarakathahu

Welcome to FM, Study

I am also a baby here
after seeing your post here ,i think you are not new to forums .
I am from salafi background but i cannot uphold all of their viewpoints
Any way ,hope we will have a good and healthy discussions

Study

Assalamualaikum Rahamatullahi Wbarakathahu

Welcome to FM, Study

I am also a baby here
after seeing your post here ,i think you are not new to forums .
I am from salafi background but i cannot uphold all of their viewpoints
Any way ,hope we will have a good and healthy discussions

And be peace be upon you )
This is actually the first time I'm surfing a religious forum.
Often times I don't even need to comment because most of my thoughts/question are already being answered. So although I may look like I'm inactive, I'm actually lurking through the comments and many of them are so very interesting.
I've been on this forum for just a single night and my understanding of the word kufar/kafir has been completely flipped upside down.
I need to remind myself to not rush into taking positions and be skeptical and absorb knowledge like a sponge and once I've attained enough pro/con arguments I need to evaluate. However this forum just shows how little my knowledge is on so many topics.
I also hope we'll have a healthy discussions, although I don't think I can hold a candle against most of the arguments here rotfl

And welcome to you as well, if that makes any sense.

clashncruz

Assalamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullah my brother,

It is always nice to welcome a new member to the forum. Insha'Allah you will find the conversation here courteous, respectful, and informative. Many people here come from many different backgrounds. I, for one, am from California and was born and raised in a family of Atheists; so, ask any questions if you are interested, and I am sure people will be willing to share.

That is cool you are from a Shia background. I personally like to study all the different forms and perspectives that exist on Fiqh (Jurisprudence), being a Western-trained Political Scientist, I find the study of law very interesting. Thus, I have studied Shia as well as Sunni concepts behind many of the topics we discuss on this forum (salaat, zakat, marriage, word meaning, politics, etc.). My ultimate point here being this many of the Shia concepts, hadiths, and legal rulings, as well as their political stances throughout history seem fairly closely aligned with the Qur'anic teachings of Social Justice, Humility, and Patience. (Look at the recent spectacle of Saudi Arabia beheading Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr to see a modern day glimpse of this).

My perspective on Hadith is much like my perspective on history. People wrote what was convenient for them at the time of their writing depending on their particular political/social/religious ideology. We don't not read ancient historians, or any other historian for that matter, because they have bias. We know they have bias, everyone has bias, it is impossible to escape. We simply read writers knowing their bias, and apply that to our reasoning.

Of course, the Qur'an is the ultimate Guide with which to hold others accountable, which is why you are here; I am so thrilled!

Sorry for the long-winded post, but welcome and Tabarak'Alllahu.

May God Bless your journey through this world.

Peace,

Clash

Comrox

Peace Study,

Welcome to the community. ) I don't have a picture on here, but for the record, I'm from the United States and look about as western as you can get. D

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. )

Man_of_Faith

Find it a bit odd it is stereotyped that a person interested in Quran would be a person with Arabic bodily ethnicity. It is just one book that has been released and available for centuries and its contents is intended just about for any person upon this Earth.

It has been in the hands of Persian (Indo-European) people since its advent. It has another Semitic language in it but it is otherwise quite similar to Aramaic. A person skilled at Aramaic would be able to briefly understand Arabic too as long as they recognize the letters.

Be safe
Amenuel

Study

Assalamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullah my brother,

And upon you as well my brother.

It is always nice to welcome a new member to the forum. Insha'Allah you will find the conversation here courteous, respectful, and informative. Many people here come from many different backgrounds. I, for one, am from California and was born and raised in a family of Atheists; so, ask any questions if you are interested, and I am sure people will be willing to share.

I find it fascinating that people find the "courage?" to take this huge step, eventhough it should be natural that people choose their way of living themselves. Did you change your point of view at a given moment in time? Or had your perception stayed the same and you found that the Quran reflects your world-view?

Till the age of 18 I had been a closed-minded person, it's thanks to my teacher that I started confronting myself with different world-views, ones in which, for example women have equal rights and aren't chained to the kitchen and can intellectualy be at the same level or even higher than men. I believe defense-mechanisms prevent many people from self-critic, at least with me it was the case. And probably still is to some degree.

Did you tell your parents? If yes, did they accept it?
I still haven't told anyone except for my best friend. Out of fear of rejection.

That is cool you are from a Shia background. I personally like to study all the different forms and perspectives that exist on Fiqh (Jurisprudence), being a Western-trained Political Scientist, I find the study of law very interesting. Thus, I have studied Shia as well as Sunni concepts behind many of the topics we discuss on this forum (salaat, zakat, marriage, word meaning, politics, etc.). My ultimate point here being this many of the Shia concepts, hadiths, and legal rulings, as well as their political stances throughout history seem fairly closely aligned with the Qur'anic teachings of Social Justice, Humility, and Patience. (Look at the recent spectacle of Saudi Arabia beheading Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr to see a modern day glimpse of this).

Your knowledge regarding Shia traditions/interpretations surpasses mine D
I plan on building up my political knowledge, however at the moment that's not my priority.

My perspective on Hadith is much like my perspective on history. People wrote what was convenient for them at the time of their writing depending on their particular political/social/religious ideology. We don't not read ancient historians, or any other historian for that matter, because they have bias. We know they have bias, everyone has bias, it is impossible to escape. We simply read writers knowing their bias, and apply that to our reasoning.

Knowing that they've got bias I try to avoid reading them, for they, without me wanting, create a certain image in my mind. Which in turn influences the way I perceive the Quran.
I can't help but get the image of a bearded man with shoulder long hair when I think of the prophet Muhammad.
I believe the reason why it is forbidden to illustrate prophets, may be because humans make unconscious judgements based on appearances.
For example, identification, which is nothing more than putting people into categories.
This judgemental instinct has been used in wars as well, portrayal of jews for example, during the nazi regime. Or the enslavement of black people. Creating a "they" feeling in order to feel better about yourself.
Now what do you think the Prophet of God is going to look like? That's right, like "us" so that we can feel good about ourselves, hence the white portrayal of Jesus, I believe it was Paul's portrayal, in case I'm mistaken, please do correct me.
So very ironic that so many people wish for others to die because they've portrayed Muhammad and they themselves try to look like him, growing their beards like that, wearing the clothes that he wore. Aren't they aware that what they're doing is a form of portraying as well?

Of course, the Qur'an is the ultimate Guide with which to hold others accountable, which is why you are here; I am so thrilled!
Sorry for the long-winded post, but welcome and Tabarak'Alllahu.
May God Bless your journey through this world.
Peace,
Clash

Thanks for the long-winded post
I'm on a forum so that I can read, no need to hold back D
May you be blessed as well, and may we all earn paradise, inshaAllah.

Study

Peace Study,

Welcome to the community. I don't have a picture on here, but for the record, I'm from the United States and look about as western as you can get. D

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Peace Comrox, well, actually there isn't that much to say, I was simply surprised over something so simple.
I live in Germany, and out of all the Germans I've met, I can't remember one of them being a muslim. Of course there are German Muslims as well, I believe, I just have never met them.
I've only met one Quran-alone Muslim in all of my life.

To be honest I feel attracted towards western women, and I naturally want to satisfy my desires and engage into a love-relationship with a western woman. For some reason or another, I want her to be following the Quran alone or be a nontrinitarian Christian. I haven't positioned myself regarding this yet, however I don't want to make the mistake of developing an intense relationship with a woman who won't fit my life-style.
I'm getting older as times passes and I feel like I need to settle my minds regarding this, since I feel myself getting inpatient and I'm worried of rushing into a decision I may regret.
Feel free to criticize me in any way you see fit, I may develop through head-on confrontation.

Study

Find it a bit odd it is stereotyped that a person interested in Quran would be a person with Arabic bodily ethnicity. It is just one book that has been released and available for centuries and its contents is intended just about for any person upon this Earth.

Naturalisation through repetition in media, I believe.
It isn't simply odd, it's wrong (IMO).

It has been in the hands of Persian (Indo-European) people since its advent. It has another Semitic language in it but it is otherwise quite similar to Aramaic. A person skilled at Aramaic would be able to briefly understand Arabic too as long as they recognize the letters.

Be safe
Amenuel

I've heard about the similarities between Arabic and Aramaic before, and I find it very interesting.
While lurking through some pages on this forum I saw a comment of yours regarding your understanding of hell being metaphorical, you said that people simply cease to exist.
I find that interpretation to be very interesting. Do you have something that you can recommend me? Like a detailed explanation of yours somewhere on a page/site.
It would please me if I could have a deeper understanding of how you came to such a conclusion.

Stay sound

By the way, is it ok for me to make multiple comments in a row like this?

clashncruz

Peace unto you brother,

It is fine to leave multiple comments.

In answer to your questions

Yes, my mind has changed about certain things, but truly I did find that the Quranic view fit my own Sociopolitical/Moral/Economic viewpoint that I had been developing for years.
Yes, I eventually told my parents; though this was very difficult. My father and brother are Atheists and my mother "believes in a higher power", but nothing specific. So needless to say, most of my conversations have been with my father and brother, who seem to find my belief highly unsettling.

I also had to tell my VERY Southern Baptist side of the family in Georgia over breakfast a year or so ago at a family reunion; that was interesting..."So that means you want to kill all of us now!?" - My Aunt
"Aunt Dean! Of course not, how could you say that? I've been here for the last three days helping you and cleaning dishes" - Me. Still not sure if that side of the family has accepted things, it seems they think if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, then you are going to Hell; similar extremist viewpoints as the Islam we are all against as well.

The only person I have not told is my Grandmother, who is in her eighties, and a strong Catholic; I suppose I just feel that she is already so elderly (moving towards senility), that it is not a proper context to explain such difficult, and in my country highly controversial, information. Fiqh Al-Waqiah (Jurisprudence of Context) this is an important concept you should learn about. Here is a good video https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgBwGmfXi5E

I also do not tell most people I meet or work with, only my good friends know for the most part. The one time of year where you will be 'outed' as a Muslim is if you hold the traditional Food/Water fast during Ramadan. I have personally had the following conversation
"Hey do you want some lunch, I just cooked this pasta?" -Offering Person
"Uh-hmm...well actually I can't eat right now" - Me
"Why not?" - Offering person,
"Because I am fasting" -Me,
"Fasting for what?" - Offering person,
"For Ramadan" -Me,
"But you're not Black!" - Offering Person.

Needless to say, many people are ignorant in our world; therefore, it is our task to educate them.

Finally, in regards to the drawings of the prophets, and the people trying to dress like the prophets. I completely agree with you; no one should be killed for drawing a photo (Though all good intelligence on the subject suggests Charlie Hebdo was a False Flag attack; if you do not know about False Flag attacks, please research them). I also agree that reading Hadith can be dangerous if it starts to make you mix it or confuse it with Qur'an; one must be able to differentiate between the two, and know that the Qur'an is the True Criteria.

It is great to have some more active members here, we always need new minds at Free Minds.

Peace.

Clash

Man_of_Faith

Salam Study,

In fact I understand "Hell" as what we go through right now and it is a kind of purgatory. If staying too long in it, this soul ceases to exist as its consciousness fades.

"Heaven" is ethereal in origin and one has no physical shape anymore.

Be safe
Amenuel

As-Salaatayn

Study,

"For you your way, and for me my way" (1096)

This is a great quote from the Quran, but be aware that if you use it some people here will think you are calling them Kuffar. I have had it happen to me.

For all of the fascination of a place where people of Islamic backgrounds, affiliations and interests can discuss Islamic and Quranic issues, be aware. There are many agendas here that go much deeper and far beyond being students of the Quran and wanting to live and apply what it teaches and commands us, whether they openly admit to it or not. And it is easy to get heckled/trolled here as well as get caught up in endless discussions that go nowhere. Choose your topics and conversation partners wisely or this place will become more like a heroine addiction than a place of enlightenment.

I am very versed in and about Classical Arabic and linguistics in general. These are my passions. Please pick my brain whenever you'd like. And I have a deep-seated allergy to linguistic fraud, including the "Arabic is really Aramaic" crowd or the "All semitic languages and roots are interchangeable" crowd, as well as the "True Arabic is to be found in Semitic and Arabic etymology" crowd as well.

Salam

Man_of_Faith

And I have a deep-seated allergy to linguistic fraud, including the "Arabic is really Aramaic" crowd or the "All semitic languages and roots are interchangeable" crowd, as well as the "True Arabic is to be found in Semitic and Arabic etymology" crowd as well.

And I am allergic against arrogant ones who think they know something and ignore basic logic and proclaim themselves knowledgeable when actually that is quite weak.

Be safe
Amenuel

Study

I also had to tell my VERY Southern Baptist side of the family in Georgia over breakfast a year or so ago at a family reunion; that was interesting..."So that means you want to kill all of us now!?" - My Aunt
"Aunt Dean! Of course not, how could you say that? I've been here for the last three days helping you and cleaning dishes" - Me. Still not sure if that side of the family has accepted things, it seems they think if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, then you are going to Hell; similar extremist viewpoints as the Islam we are all against as well.

That sounds as if it were ripped straight out of a movie dialogue. rotfl
I'm so sorry my brother that you had to experience something like that.
In all honesty though, I don't think we are ones to judge. Our belief rejects trinitarian belief just as much as trinitarian's belief rejects us.

The only person I have not told is my Grandmother, who is in her eighties, and a strong Catholic; I suppose I just feel that she is already so elderly (moving towards senility), that it is not a proper context to explain such difficult, and in my country highly controversial, information. Fiqh Al-Waqiah (Jurisprudence of Context)

Well, it's a personal decision and I don't see why everyone has to know. I agree that it'd be inproper to tell her.
I still haven't told almost anyone.

I also do not tell most people I meet or work with, only my good friends know for the most part. The one time of year where you will be 'outed' as a Muslim is if you hold the traditional Food/Water fast during Ramadan. I have personally had the following conversation
"Hey do you want some lunch, I just cooked this pasta?" -Offering Person
"Uh-hmm...well actually I can't eat right now" - Me
"Why not?" - Offering person,
"Because I am fasting" -Me,
"Fasting for what?" - Offering person,
"For Ramadan" -Me,
"But you're not Black!" - Offering Person.

Movie dialoque number two rotfl
I guess here in Germany people would have responded "But you're not Mediterranean!"

Needless to say, many people are ignorant in our world; therefore, it is our task to educate them.

Brother I think our job is to educate ourselves first. That's the reason why I'm here in the first place, to challenge my convinctions.
Or simply to gain more knowledge.

peace

clashncruz

Yes Study, classic, and I got plenty more too. My younger brother is studying to be a film director/producer/writer so maybe one day...

I agree with you Study; I am actually a teacher by profession, and my philosophy is this We are all teachers and students for life, we all have things to teach others, and we all have things to learn from others.

Peace brother.

Comrox

Peace Comrox, well, actually there isn't that much to say, I was simply surprised over something so simple.
I live in Germany, and out of all the Germans I've met, I can't remember one of them being a muslim. Of course there are German Muslims as well, I believe, I just have never met them.
I've only met one Quran-alone Muslim in all of my life.

To be honest I feel attracted towards western women, and I naturally want to satisfy my desires and engage into a love-relationship with a western woman. For some reason or another, I want her to be following the Quran alone or be a nontrinitarian Christian. I haven't positioned myself regarding this yet, however I don't want to make the mistake of developing an intense relationship with a woman who won't fit my life-style.
I'm getting older as times passes and I feel like I need to settle my minds regarding this, since I feel myself getting inpatient and I'm worried of rushing into a decision I may regret.
Feel free to criticize me in any way you see fit, I may develop through head-on confrontation.

Peace Study,

I know there are muslims in my area as well, but like you I feel like a lot of us haven't met many others who only use the Qur'an for guidance.
Interesting that your attraction is towards western women only. ) I think a lot of people don't want to develop a relationship with someone who won't fit their lifestyle, especially on this forum. I have to figure that one out myself.

Study

Yes Study, classic, and I got plenty more too. My younger brother is studying to be a film director/producer/writer so maybe one day...

I agree with you Study; I am actually a teacher by profession, and my philosophy is this We are all teachers and students for life, we all have things to teach others, and we all have things to learn from others.

Peace brother.

Ah yeah, I want to be a film director, screenwriter, producer myself D
However I prefer a job that is a bit more secure so I decided to study education.
The study in Germany is ridiculous though,
If I manage to absolve, then I will become an English and Music teacher.
English in and of itself is already ridiculous.
Linguitics, phonetics & phonlogy, Literary studies, history, cultural studies and much more.
Many of my professors believe that ministry is making it difficult on purpose so that the students fail.

Peace Study,

I know there are muslims in my area as well, but like you I feel like a lot of us haven't met many others who only use the Qur'an for guidance.
Interesting that your attraction is towards western women only. ) I think a lot of people don't want to develop a relationship with someone who won't fit their lifestyle, especially on this forum. I have to figure that one out myself.

Well, only was an exaggeration, mostly, I actually have a distaste regarding people from my origin. There are some exceptions though.
That's just the supperficial aspect, I feel like I need to lower my expectations. -X

Anyway
to all of you
thanks for the warm welcome peace

Jafar

English in and of itself is already ridiculous.
Linguitics, phonetics & phonlogy, Literary studies, history, cultural studies and much more.
Many of my professors believe that ministry is making it difficult on purpose so that the students fail.

Well, only was an exaggeration, mostly, I actually have a distaste regarding people from my origin. There are some exceptions though.
That's just the supperficial aspect, I feel like I need to lower my expectations. -X

Linguistic, History and Culture are indeed interesting subjects..

The english language is a good example... inconsistent grammar, inconsistent spelling... it's the product of mixing languages together..
Predominantly old germanic with good mixes from Latin, French, Slavic and the native tongue of Briton / Celts... plus additional new mixes from Sanskrit, Hindi, Chinese, Malay, Arabic, Hebrew and Turkic..
And voila.. see how different it can be with today's German language.. all within the short timeframe of merely 1500 years..