REQUEST FOR CONSULTATION: I CAN'T GO TO MY DISBELIEVING PARENT FUNERAL!!!

HP_TECH

does not imply that you should pray for them

Your words, not mine.

Also just because Allah does not forbid you to be kind and just to the disbelievers that don't fight to drive you out of the land, does not imply that you should pray for them or stand at their graves when they die

No these were my words zayd

And I mean that you are using one extreme,that Allah does not forbid to be kind and just, to imply that it would be perhaps kind and just to simply pray or stand at the graves of those who have died as disbelievers.

When two have nothing to do with each other. We are misunderstanding one another.
608-9 is meant to inform the believers that they do not have to be hostile to every group of disbelievers.

While 984 is indicating to the prophet to not pray/support nor stand at the graves of those who have disbelieved.

Me including or omitting it would make no difference to the latter.

You've kind of put the cart in front of the horse by focusing on the meanings of "tusalli" while disregarding the most important issue in this whole damn thing

Are you mad at me? I hope you are not upset by my tone. But, please do not use such language while we are referring to the Quran.

Should your family be included in in the first place or not?

Who are "they" in ?

Hypocrites? Then is your family a bunch of people who only pretend to be mu'mineen? Yes or No?

Disbelievers? Then is your family the type or the type?

I see there is this tendency of trying to match my family as it has become the subject, to those descriptions.
If it helps do not think about my family, but think of it in general. After all, it is upon me to investigate whether those who I interact are indeed brothers in the din just as the prophet is instructed to examine all the people who emigrate to the system.

6010
O you who believe! When come to you the believing women (as) emigrants, then examine them. Allah (is) most knowing of their faith. And if you know them (to be) believers, then (do) not return them to the disbelievers. Not they (are) lawful for them and not they are lawful for them. But give them what they have spent. And not any blame upon you if you marry them when you have given them their (bridal) dues. And (do) not hold to marriage bonds with disbelieving women, but ask (for) what you have spent, and let them ask what they have spent. That (is the) Judgment (of) Allah. He judges between you. And Allah (is) All-Knowing, All-Wise.
6012
O Prophet! When come to you the believing women pledging to you that not they will associate with Allah anything, and not they will steal, and not they will commit adultery, and not they will kill their children, and not they bring slander, they invent it between their hands and their feet, and not they will disobey you in (the) right, then accept their pledge and ask forgiveness for them (from) Allah. Indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

So perhaps at this point I have known them to not be believers, Allah knows best about their faith.

Like I have said to reel. Disbelievers come in varying degrees.

I'll keep it short, but if we are told not even pray/support not stand at the graves of hypocrites (who seemingly only refused to mobilize) how much worse disbelievers who deny the Message of the Quran and its Messenger, and deny the Oneness of Allah and claim He has begotten? Glory be to Him above what they associate!

In fact look at how Allah addresses the People of the Book and what He conveys to the believers about not grieving over the DISBELIEVERS in 568
Say, "O People (of) the Book! You are not on anything until you stand firmly (by) the Taurat and the Injeel and what has been revealed to you from your Lord. And surely increase many of them, what has been revealed to you from your Lord, (in) rebellion and disbelief. So (do) not grieve over the disbelieving people.

Do you think the latter have an exemption in that command given in 984 so do you think if there are disbelievers who do not fit in the descriptions given, but out right reject and deny, that then it makes it ok to participate in their funeral?

And another thing I missed about what you previously asked about Noah. No I don't think his son was actively part of those persecuting them, there are different kinds of deniers like there are degrees among the believers. If his son was an active opposing persecuting figure, why would he be in such a surprise that he would risk addressing Allah about him after he had been clearly admonished to do so? It seems like He expected his son to be on board with them and even called out to him.
Just like you might expect some around you to be on board with you but lo and behold deep in their heart they disagreed with you completely.
I do not think this is too hard to picture. Regardless of the example of my own family.
ANSWER THIS HONESTLY PLEASE

Do you think it is appropriate for a believer( not me just in general) to attend a disbeliever's funeral per what I have demonstrated of the evidence in Quran

984, Noah, Lut, Shuaib

Suppliant

Recently my grandpa passed away my mother asked me to help her write an eulogy, I have never met the man, nor heard his voice, nor know his name, nor has he ever pen-palled me or come to visit me EVER. Furthermore, he basically abandoned my mother when she was a teen and tended to his other family. My mother had not seen him for nearly 30 years before he passed. I obviously do not hold this man in any esteem, rather the opposite. He neglected my mother and us. He always visited his other family and grandchildren and called them and conversed with them frequently on the phone. I literally have nothing nice to say about him. I do not want to support such a man in anyway. I am also convinced he was not a muslimina. I am vehemently opposed to supporting anything in relation to this funeral, including helping my mother write this eulogy. I feel it would violate the command in 984. Therefore, I do not feel bad when I told my mother I could not help her. I cannot obey her on associating with Allah what I have not been given any authority on.

I'm thinking you won't like my answer, but if it helps, you said that you don't know this man, your grandpa. You are also convinced he was not a muslimina.

This is what the Qur'an says

O believers, eschew much suspicion; some suspicion is a sin. And do not spy, neither backbite one another; would any of you like to eat the flesh of his brother dead? You would abominate it. And fear you God; assuredly God turns, and He is All-compassionate. - 49.12

I suppose if you never knew the man, can you say he was not a muslimina and not call yourself suspicious?

Just my two-cents on this. It sounds a bit personal, as you do not want to have anything to do with the funeral because of how he has treated your mother & family. But then again, I do not know your situation. Please ask God for help on this.

hawk99

You pick and choose ayats to follow the prophets to make your argument.
Have you confronted the leaders of society? Do you have a book? Are you exempt
from the marriage laws? Can you declare war? Do you preach publicly?
If not, do not compare yourself to the prophets. Some things in Quran are
addressed to the prophets (singular) I am not saying pray or stand
at the grave, I am saying support your mother I know you are
hurt by your grandfathers shunning but for once give up your selfishness
and think about someone who needs you. Your mother will not be with you forever. nope
Sometimes we intellectualize when there is no need

peace

HP_TECH

Okay I see a lot are really focusing on the example I have given about my family, it is just an example.

So let us try it a bit differently this time....

Based on Quranic evidence presented and your own knowledge of the Book

Abraham who asked forgiveness for his disbelieving father and we are told to not follow his example in that.
Noah who was admonished for addressing Allah about his disbelieving son
Lut who fled the city early in the morning and left behind his disbelieving wife
Shuaib turning away from and refraining to grieve over those who had disbelieved and died among his people
Muhammad being commanded not pray/support nor stand at the graves of those who disbelieved and died while being disobedient.

In general forget about my family's example....
...Would you say that a believer should in any way support and attend the funeral of one who has clearly died as a disbeliever?

Please be honest thanks.

HP_TECH

You pick and choose ayats to follow the prophets to make your argument.
Have you confronted the leaders of society? Do you have a book? Are you exempt
from the marriage laws? Can you declare war? Do you preach publicly?
If not, do not compare yourself to the prophets. Some things in Quran are
addressed to the prophets (singular) I am not saying pray or stand
at the grave, I am saying support your mother I know you are
hurt by your grandfathers shunning but for once give up your selfishness
and think about someone who needs you. Your mother will not be with you forever. nope
Sometimes we intellectualize when there is no need

peace

Wow...I did not pick and choose anything, I tried to be as thorough as possible, to include all relevant ayaats I am only a human.
If there are any other relevant ayaats to the topic of supporting disbelievers or standing at their graves, please bring them forth.
I only presented all that I was capable of recollecting.

Allah clearly says to follow the path of those who turn to Him, we have of the best examples in the Quran. Hence Allah telling us in surah 60 that in Abraham and his followers we have a great example as to deal with the disbelievers. Meaning we should follow their examples. Does me wanting to follow what I am told by Allah in the Quran equal to me comparing myself to the prophets??
How do you judge hawk99?

Indeed most of what is addressed to the prophet applies to us as well as He is a great example to follow for the exception of some obvious instructions like the marriage laws and a few others. But to mention this, is a very down-low attempt from you brother to make me feel like I was aspiring to be a prophet or something. That's not right..... You know I meant good by my request and presenting all the ayaats I could find.

It is the opposite of selfishness, selfish would be desiring the life of the world and bonds and relationships among family, while it is much harder to take a step back from wanting to help my mother and say no because of fearing to transgress.

No, I am not selfish indeed but Allah knows, and I'll be patient over all this. I only sought help from those who I thought were my brothers in the deen.

Yet it is true I should ultimately refer back to Allah

Indeed He raises in degrees some among others, perhaps we are not all on the same degree

I will turn to my Lord He will guide me

Peace

Suppliant

Okay I see a lot are really focusing on the example I have given about my family, it is just an example.

So let us try it a bit differently this time....

Based on Quranic evidence presented and your own knowledge of the Book

Abraham who asked forgiveness for his disbelieving father and we are told to not follow his example in that.
Noah who was admonished for addressing Allah about his disbelieving son
Lut who fled the city early in the morning and left behind his disbelieving wife
Shuaib turning away from and refraining to grieve over those who had disbelieved and died among his people
Muhammad being commanded not pray/support nor stand at the graves of those who disbelieved and died while being disobedient.

In general forget about my family's example....
...Would you say that a believer should in any way support and attend the funeral of one who has clearly died as a disbeliever?

Please be honest thanks.

Peace.

To answer your question, I would say that a believer should not in any way support and attend the funeral of one who has clearly died as a disbeliever.

However, please note the following in the Qur'an

The Prophet is nearer to the believers than their selves; his wives are their mothers. Those who are bound by blood are nearer to one another in the Book of God than the believers and the emigrants; nevertheless you should act towards your friends honourably; that stands inscribed in the Book. - 33.6

In my understanding, it stands to reason that if your family is closer to you than believers, they must be closer to you than disbelievers. Family is different when it comes to separating them from believers vs disbelievers, so while the answer to your question is "a believer should not support..." this instance may not apply to family.

If you consider the example of Abraham and his father, as well as Noah and his son. Both these prophets prayed for their kin UNTIL God admonished them. I suppose if God admonishes you for praying for the disbeliever, then you can continue to pray for kin.

This is my opinion that I have formed from the above verse and what I know of the Book. Please put this into consideration when formulating your answer.

Best of luck to you, bro. Listen to what God has to say.

reel

I am saying support your mother I know you are
hurt by your grandfathers shunning but for once give up your selfishness
and think about someone who needs you. Your mother will not be with you forever.

Very true and honestly speaking, no matter how terrible a parent/sibling/aunt/grandpa is the bitterness just goes away when it comes to their death.

HP_TECH bro,
Since you didn't come in contact with the man your approach to him at this time is based on rationality. He didn't care. So you don't see the need to be all that sad about him. Your position not wrong. Probably, your mom felt the same way, but you see, death changes things a lot. We humans are created weak and one of our weakest links happens to be our heart which melts too easily during moments like this.

But you see, the thing is, that I do not think people need to completely match those descriptions. What I mean there are many more ayaas describing hypocrites and disbelievers. In essence the hypocrites are a kind of disbelievers. They are disbelievers who pretend to be believers, while the disbelievers outright reject and deny.

I haven't seen any verse which tells us to shun away someone just because they are disbeliever.

I would think that if the prophet is told to not pray nor stand on the graves of these hypocrites, how much worse the disbelievers who out right mock the believers, spread rumors, deny his messengership, deny the Hereafter, People of the Book who transgressed and etcetera. The list is huge and varies, everything is in degrees.

There is a difference between the disbelievers spoken about in the Quran and the ones we find in our environment. Don't depend just on one verse. Read everything surrounding it. Also use your logic. Don't wanna brag, but ask yourself why we are the number one and the most incomparable state in this country. Once Iraq saw similar trend when they welcomed diversity. When people are shun away we become Texas or Saudia Arabia.

Belief is almost same as love.
In your mind, you have fallen in love with Allah and you have the rationality through which you can say why he is the one. But same is not true about the people in your environment. They love a different God and in their head, somehow they figured out how to translate the meaning of Trinity. They are so faithful to it that what you tell them about Allah does not make sense to them. It is made worse by the media. You can scream as much as you want about how your version of the Islam is peaceful. But it won't make sense to them without you show it through your own actions. Always remind yourself that the prophets didn't get followers overnight and plenty of them ended up getting murder threats.

fye

yep stand not by there graves it's one of those hard choices but you gain a strength and firmness afterward.

consider the other options you want everyone you know and love to live forever but at some point they all die, does that make them closer to you? or is a funeral another day that you can just say you over slept on?

the problem is you making a big deal over the command of ALLAH.

I have a question when you go to a funeral does it comfort the dead? what do the deceased feel about this?

zayd

Do you think it is appropriate for a believer( not me just in general) to attend a disbeliever's funeral

If the person who disagreed with your religion was not an evil person like the ones described in chapter 9, then yes, absolutely. You may attend to show support for the family and help out with the funeral. Who said that you must pray for them, or that it is mandatory to attend funerals? If you weren't close to the deceased or the family, then you don't have to go. End of story.

You, on the other hand, are using the Qur'an itself, taking a verse that talks about strife out of its context, to justify shunning your own family's funerals just because they disagree with your religion. Does that sound like a universal system to you, or is it more like a petty, tribal cult? For someone to think that the Creator of the universe would tell us to do this is really just sad and stupid. How can your family not be concerned about your being a Muslim if you act like you're in a cult? Ask yourse- no, ask as many people as you can Would it be considered unkind for someone to shun the funeral of their own parent? Yes or No?

All the prophets turned away from the wrongdoers after they passed away

Denial had come before them from the people of Noah, and the Confederates after them. And every nation obsessed with their messenger?to take him?and they disputed by means of falsehood to defeat with it the truth. So I took them; how then was My punishment!

(Asad)

to the truth gave the lie, before their time, the people of Noah and, after them, all those who were leagued together ; and each of those communities schemed against the apostle sent unto them, aiming to lay hands on him; and they contended with fallacious arguments, so as to render void the truth thereby but then I took them to task - and how awesome was My retribution!

(Arberry)

The people of Noah before them also cried lies, and the parties after them; every nation purposed against their Messenger to seize him, and disputed with falsehood that they might rebut thereby the truth. Then I seized them; and how was My retribution!

O you who believe, do not take My enemy and your enemy as allies. You extend love to them, even though they have rejected the truth that has come to you. They drive you and the messenger out, simply because you believe in God, your Lord. If you are mobilizing to strive in My cause, seeking My blessings, then how can you secretly love them? I am fully aware of everything you conceal and what you declare. And whoever of you does this, then he has gone astray from the right path.

...

Perhaps God will grant compassion between you and those you consider enemies; and God is Capable. And God is Forgiving, Merciful.

God does not prohibit you from those who have not fought you because of your system, nor drove you out of your homes, that you deal kindly and equitably with them. For God loves the equitable.

But God does prohibit you regarding those who fought you because of your system, and drove you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out. You shall not ally with them. Those who ally with them, then such are the transgressors.

It seems like you're already dead set on condemning your family though, but to anyone else thinking of doing the same sad and stupid thing to their disbelieving family, I sincerely advise you to think it over before you drink the boiling drink of lifelong regret. Good bye.

huruf

When in doubt, do the best and think that we all will need a lot of mercy and forgiving from God to ourselves. Someboy who is dead willnot harm you any more. Be kind and humble and think that even withyour mistakes and shortcomings you will want that somebody be sorry for yur death, tht somebody will have a charitable thought when you pass away. If we had o pay for everything we do wrong or we do not do right...

Burial may be a good opportunity to gt closer to people who are usually ardened through life. The loss of a beloved person softens the heart and may be they become more understandng oyou if you show softeness in an occasion such as this

Salaam

alihawa

Dear HPTech,

I have read your points and others too about this issue.

You have strong points bro. We should not use other people's tradition and habits and use them as a tool to define what's rignt or wrong. Quran already gives us clear order backed up with some stories to give clear perspective.

As long as our parents live, then we must respect them. But after they died, no obligation at all. I dont see any description to do a funeral in Quran, so think it is not a critical thing to get safe in the hereafter.

The problem in the funeral thing is not about the deceased one. It is always about the ones who left behind. But to make matters clearer, what is more important to us, being good in our family's eyes or our being good towards our God? Easy choice in mind perspective, but can be quite hard in real life.

In my opinion, there are 3 things that one must agree in order to escape from being the enemy of ALLAH, they are

One must believe that God is one
One must believe on the hereafter
One must commit to do good things

Doing just 2 of them (or less) make one will enter the hell in the hereafter. In my opinion, ALLAH will not punish anyone to hell if it is not a big thing. The problem is the big things for ALLAH may not look so big in common people's eyes, while the big things for common people (just like wealth and children) is not so big in ALLAH perception.

So yes, you are on the right track. Carry on with your understanding and dont let common tradition and perspective misled you. Quran teaching does not have to follow common people tradition and perspective.

I hope ALLAH gives you strength to carry on. Peace brother!

fye

Wow...I did not pick and choose anything, I tried to be as thorough as possible, to include all relevant ayaats I am only a human.
If there are any other relevant ayaats to the topic of supporting disbelievers or standing at their graves, please bring them forth.
I only presented all that I was capable of recollecting.

Allah clearly says to follow the path of those who turn to Him, we have of the best examples in the Quran. Hence Allah telling us in surah 60 that in Abraham and his followers we have a great example as to deal with the disbelievers. Meaning we should follow their examples. Does me wanting to follow what I am told by Allah in the Quran equal to me comparing myself to the prophets??
How do you judge hawk99?

Indeed most of what is addressed to the prophet applies to us as well as He is a great example to follow for the exception of some obvious instructions like the marriage laws and a few others. But to mention this, is a very down-low attempt from you brother to make me feel like I was aspiring to be a prophet or something. That's not right..... You know I meant good by my request and presenting all the ayaats I could find.

It is the opposite of selfishness, selfish would be desiring the life of the world and bonds and relationships among family, while it is much harder to take a step back from wanting to help my mother and say no because of fearing to transgress.

No, I am not selfish indeed but Allah knows, and I'll be patient over all this. I only sought help from those who I thought were my brothers in the deen.

Yet it is true I should ultimately refer back to Allah

Indeed He raises in degrees some among others, perhaps we are not all on the same degree

I will turn to my Lord He will guide me

Peace

salaam

your question is kinda answering it's self this is exactly what the prophets of old did followed what ALLAH told them in the quran if they didn't they wouldn't be prophets they would be disbelievers. being an Abrahamic monotheist i see that we like abraham are given situations with obvious choices and commands from ALLAH, it's the situation that steers you to the right but it's wanted outcomes that make people disobey. recall ALLAH makes the faith easy for us, and the knowledge of good and evil is always very clear to every human being wheater they choose to admit it or not, in fact that knowledge is why they choose to admit or deny making it the base of everything we do.

if you were to become a prophet would it be by choice? could you simply reject?
what made abraham a prophet? a kid selling idols then after some deep thought at odds with his people? years later his about to cut his son on an alter, what made him a prophet he was once a punk kid 12, 15, 17 running around loved by the unbelievers (pagans are equally unbelievers which i'm sure you've read).
you could be a prophet in a few years it's not your will it's ALLAH's. have delivered the messege to a people who knew nothing about it? are you not the messenger of ALLAH if you have?
maybe your objection is what kept you from obtaining these titles?
surah yasin (good read) also don't go to the funeral even though it's your mother only if you promised to go when she was alive and then that's just three days of fast to get out of your oath.

simonejamilla

HP_TECH I completely agree with you. Some folks like to water down God's message, so as to fit their diverse lifestyle. We live in a world were most people do not have One God Consciousness, so it is usual for most who claim to follow God, that we remain tolerant to those family members around us that do not have the same belief. Not only does this happen with family, but with friendships. God has made it clear to us, who we need to associate with, and who we need to avoid. Whether they be your family or close friends, if they reject One God consciousness, and the Book of guidance, then be polite to them, feed them if they are hungry, see them to safety if need be, but do not take them into your confidence, or visit their graves, pray over them or for them.

As for your situation If you can't afford to move out, then be patient and God will find a way out for you. If they reject your belief, then it is not healthy for you to be around disbelievers, for me at least, living an isolated existence is the only way to stay purified. Trust me! I refuse to see my sister anymore, because she treats me like I'm a brainwashed mental patient, and believe me I did try for years, but I realise that following God's directives is far more important.

The_Sardar

As for your situation If you can't afford to move out, then be patient and God will find a way out for you. If they reject your belief, then it is not healthy for you to be around disbelievers, for me at least, living an isolated existence is the only way to stay purified. Trust me! I refuse to see my sister anymore, because she treats me like I'm a brainwashed mental patient, and believe me I did try for years, but I realise that following God's directives is far more important.

Wow! I can't believe your own blood sister would somewhat disown you for simply following Allah/God's (SWTAY) Divine Revelation. That is sad and disturbing. Seems they value this worldly life than the Creator and The Hereafter. I am sorry for your situation dear sister.

simonejamilla

Thank you The Sardar for your kind words. She didn't disown me, I disowned her. She treated me as if I was touched, mental, not right in the head, not able to make my own decisions, brainwashed. She felt sorry for me, and couldn't understand why I decided to go muslim? She was convinced it was a phase that I would soon grow out of. As her older sister, I felt the dynamics of the relationship were off balance, and I got fed up with not being taken seriously. so I made the decision to stop talking to her. She still tries to contact me from time to time, but I've been down that road before with her, and it soon goes pear shaped after a couple of weeks. It was sad and I felt a twitch in my heart, but staying close to God is what's important, staying purified, not associating with people who make me feel lesser than, or disturb my mind. )

The_Sardar

Thank you The Sardar for your kind words. She didn't disown me, I disowned her. She treated me as if I was touched, mental, not right in the head, not able to make my own decisions, brainwashed. She felt sorry for me, and couldn't understand why I decided to go muslim? She was convinced it was a phase that I would soon grow out of. As her older sister, I felt the dynamics of the relationship were off balance, and I got fed up with not being taken seriously. so I made the decision to stop talking to her. She still tries to contact me from time to time, but I've been down that road before with her, and it soon goes pear shaped after a couple of weeks. It was sad and I felt a twitch in my heart, but staying close to God is what's important, staying purified, not associating with people who make me feel lesser than, or disturb my mind.

Why would she treat you like a mental patient? That does not sound like she feels sorry to be honest.

simonejamilla

Shrug! Maybe not! It could be because I used to beat her up when we were little. I have apologised since.