Prophet Muhammad wives
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No, the prophet is made an exception of in the Qur'an but not to allow himmore leeway but less.
The Qur'andoes not prohibit poligamy neither masculine or feminine, but it makes it plai that the normal ordinary marriage is the monogamous one.
But at the time the Qur'an was revealed there was already plenty of poligamy. Poligamy is usual where the wealthy or prestigious social classes can pick and can pay for it.
Th prophet thanks to his prestige and also due to the possibility of breaking peace arrangements through marriageas has been common through history may have gathered a few wives for that reason. Who was he, if he was responsible for the people who followed him, to refuse such arrangements that could bring peace and safety for people? Even if he did not want a wife coul he feel justified because he didn't want it, for his own sake, not to do something that would be good for his followers.
The the Qur'a puts a choice before the wives of the prophet either you choose to be with him and give up a dream of carrying an ostentatious life of luxury and then when he dies not marry again, or you just leave him and get an honourable settlement. Those who chose to stay with him were to lead exemplary lives the others were free of the marriage bond. Those who stayed could not marry again whe he died and the prophet is prohibited to take any new wife after that or to exchange them.So it was a restriction, because he could not divorce no mtter what nor could he get not even one more wife.
So in fact he got prohibited what others did not get prohibited. And so did his wives ad the Qu?ran doees not make a secret of it it states it clearly that the prophet's wives were not like any other women.
Those that were already polgamous were not force to relinquish any woman.Salaam
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The Qur'andoes not prohibit poligamy neither masculine or feminine, but it makes it plai that the normal ordinary marriage is the monogamous one.
Do we have any other verse connected to the polygamy one (subtract the Prophet ones)? I have come across only one verse in which men are told they won't be able to love two wives at the same time. This does not permit polygamy. But verse 2432 you gave earlier has the explicit instruction of choosing only the singles for marriage. In that situation, if a man is already married he can't have another wife. Quran gives good amount of details about the time of the Prophet. A verse mentions that people back then used to marry their moms confused. Allah prohibits it, but at the same time makes it clear that those who already had the mummy wives were exempted.
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No, the prophet is made an exception of in the Qur'an but not to allow himmore leeway but less.
The Qur'andoes not prohibit poligamy neither masculine or feminine, but it makes it plai that the normal ordinary marriage is the monogamous one.
But at the time the Qur'an was revealed there was already plenty of poligamy. Poligamy is usual where the wealthy or prestigious social classes can pick and can pay for it.
Th prophet thanks to his prestige and also due to the possibility of breaking peace arrangements through marriageas has been common through history may have gathered a few wives for that reason. Who was he, if he was responsible for the people who followed him, to refuse such arrangements that could bring peace and safety for people? Even if he did not want a wife coul he feel justified because he didn't want it, for his own sake, not to do something that would be good for his followers.
The the Qur'a puts a choice before the wives of the prophet either you choose to be with him and give up a dream of carrying an ostentatious life of luxury and then when he dies not marry again, or you just leave him and get an honourable settlement. Those who chose to stay with him were to lead exemplary lives the others were free of the marriage bond. Those who stayed could not marry again whe he died and the prophet is prohibited to take any new wife after that or to exchange them.So it was a restriction, because he could not divorce no mtter what nor could he get not even one more wife.
So in fact he got prohibited what others did not get prohibited. And so did his wives ad the Qu?ran doees not make a secret of it it states it clearly that the prophet's wives were not like any other women.
Those that were already polgamous were not force to relinquish any woman.Salaam
I still feel that these are just assumptions and such exception doesn't really fit with the message of the Quran.
My understanding so far is that rules/laws/advices in the Quran are for everyone and there are exceptions for certain categories but not a specific person. Allah in the Quran will deliver a message stating a rule that everyone has to or should follow (depending on whether is compulsory or recommended). However, Allah does also create rules that override others(they don't contradict but override) allowing exceptions.
E.g 56 Ablution you have to use water for ablution; however if there's no water, you can perform it differently.According to your logic Huruf, the Prophet was an exception and this wasn't for his pleasure but for the sake of piece(no evidence here but lets assume you're right). Why would the Quran be so ambiguous about such topic? Why such an important topic (polygamy) not only creates a very specific exception and yet leaves everything else to assumptions(why such exception was applied as your interpretation about the Prophet not having any choice has no hard evidence anywhere and the least I would expect on such topic is the Quran to narrate why the Prophet had to do this)
BOLD You are stating the Quran emphasises on a monogamous marriage. Does this mean that polygamy is discouraged?BOLD-RED Again, this doesn't make it clear. The prophet wives being like no other women could have been as a result of them simply being the Prophet wives and being an example for other women to follow; however such result could have been reached by having one wife only. Therefore, his wife being like no other women doesn't automatically apply that those wives were as a result of a piece making contract, a non refutable offer and so on...
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Look I hav invented nothing, the Qur'an does say that the wives of the prophet are like no ter women, in some other aya it tells the prophet that a certain provision is only for him, not for the general people, it also tells him clearly he is not allowed to take any other wives after that nor exchange one for another. All that in sura 33. Read it. Why did h have the wives he had. I have reason to think that it is not for lust, since he is said in the Qur'an itself to be a good model of a man and lust is not allowed by the Qur'an. So what do you want me to believe? Should I be fashionable and aring and make an attempt to discredit the prophet thinking the worst of him? The Qur'n orders us to think the best no the worst of the people. So of somebody who as good a to hing been charged by God with the transmissi?n of the Qur'an what do you want me to believe? explain. That he a met a lady in an inn and got charmed and married her then and there although he already had other wife or wives? Please.
You do not agree that God should provide for him and his wives different from other people? Well they were indeed different from other people. Read sura 33.
Salaam
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On secod reading I doubt that you understood what I said. When talking to the Propht God is not speakig about poligamy at all. He is speakig about the particular case of the prophet, and he is making stricter dispositions for him than for anybody else and so for his wives. Any poligamy comes before that and God did not prohibit poligamy neithr for men nor for women, but made monogamy throughout the Qur'an as the rule, any poligamybound to be exceptional, and I guess to be left to people as the need might arise, like where there is a big unbalance between the number of one sex and the number of the other.
I reallydon't know what you want or expect.
Salaam
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Look I hav invented nothing, the Qur'an does say that the wives of the prophet are like no ter women, in some other aya it tells the prophet that a certain provision is only for him, not for the general people, it also tells him clearly he is not allowed to take any other wives after that nor exchange one for another. All that in sura 33. Read it. Why did h have the wives he had. I have reason to think that it is not for lust, since he is said in the Qur'an itself to be a good model of a man and lust is not allowed by the Qur'an. So what do you want me to believe? Should I be fashionable and aring and make an attempt to discredit the prophet thinking the worst of him? The Qur'n orders us to think the best no the worst of the people. So of somebody who as good a to hing been charged by God with the transmissi?n of the Qur'an what do you want me to believe? explain. That he a met a lady in an inn and got charmed and married her then and there although he already had other wife or wives? Please.
You do not agree that God should provide for him and his wives different from other people? Well they were indeed different from other people. Read sura 33.
Salaam
Peace Huruf,
I believe we are both misunderstanding each other and from the tone of your reply it feels like you got a bit irritated lol. I didn't mean to offend you in anyway.
BOLD I never said this was invented.The section of your reply that I classified as an assumption is when you said that the Prophet probably didn't have any choice as multiple wives were offered to him as a result of a peace making contract or something similar( I haven't come across such statement but I also said that let's imply that your assumption is right)
Based on the above, I believe this is a very sensitive topic and I would expect Allah not to be allegorical or create huge ambiguity when discussing the topic of polygamy in the Quran( an ambiguity I feel keeps raising as a result of the multiple interpretation I came across both on this side and from people that follow the Hadith)Now my understanding is as follow
Polygamy is allowed, provided that all the rules in regards to this situation are followed (I remember an interpretation about polygamy being only allowed where a married men can only marry those women that are divorced or have no husband as a result of death or something similar; this to me sounds reasonable because it doesn't let men just go after young girls or single women(which is what happens these days) )However, my initial question was about the number of wives the prophet had; I didn't want to give my view yet as I wanted to know what exactly the prophet did, whether he followed this rule or not.
By knowing the number of wives of the prophet and their profile (whether they were divorced,young, single etc) I can eliminate my view above about rules on polygamy (which I currently find reasonable) and approach this matter from a different angle.However , the view you've suggested doesn't seem to fit simply because if we agree that the Quran is the message of Allah and is for the mankind and having rules for everyone else and a rule for the prophet seems unreasonable to me.
I will read surah 33 and see whether my view changes about the prophet and his wives being so different that the Quran decided to create such a distinct rule for them.
Salaam
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You are not getting it even though Ikeep repeating it.
The difference between the prophet and other men is not that he is allowed more poligamy tha anybody else. I do notknow from where you get that. Restrictions are given generally, where the exception is made is to the prophet not to anybody else. Nobody is prohibited to marry any more women escept the prophet. Nobody i forbidden to divorce from his wives, any of them but the prophet is. and neither can he devorce one and then gt another one instead. He is forbidden things he is not given mor freedomthan others but less. I don't know whether you understand it now. Nowhere is he given more freedom or anywhere is it stated that he can marry more women than anybody else. If you hold that, then quote or give the number of he aya, because such a thig is not in the Qur'an. What there is in Qur'an are restrictions to the prophet is prohibition to divorce and prohibition to marry any other woman.Nor is it a question of keeping the ame number, as you see he is forbidden to exchange one for another. Likewise his wives are not allowed to marry anybody aftr the prohet dies. That is just for them not for any othr woman. Again it is not a question of poligamy or not, it i the same for all prophet or not prophet. Bu only the prophet is forbidden to divorceany of his woen whether it is two or whether it is a thousand, and he cannot exchange them fr other or others. He has to stick with the ones who chose to stay with him when they were put to the choice.
Salaam
Salaam
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Wait, wait. I went over the verses. Having trouble understanding now. Food for thought
The Prophet is more worthy of the believers than themselves, and his wives are their mothers. And those of relationship are more entitled in the decree of Allah than the believers and the emigrants, except that you may do to your close associates a kindness. That was in the Book inscribed.
Why is it "that was"?
If prophet's wives are the mothers why their examples are not mentioned in the Quran? We do have Aisha in hadiths, but again, we have to ask if her father was secretly in love with Persia, for the name is not persian and not found in Quran.For verse 3328
Why yayyuh l-nabiyu? It is translated as O Prophet just once in english. But we find O Prophet O Prophet mentioned twice when we go for the actual wordings.
See
http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/33/28/w4wbv.html
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=33&verse=28#(33281)For 3330
Is God talking to wives or.....believing female followers of the Prophet? It seems that the interpreters played around with yanisaa http//islamawakened.com/quran/roots/Nun-Siin-Waw.htmlFor verse 3332, I have to ask if Prophet who was asked to verify the truthfulness of new believing women would marry a bunch of uncontrollable ones whom Allah had to personally tell how they should behave. Strangely, just a few verses away, Allah says they already were hearing Quran in their "houses" (hmm, multiple houses).
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I do not think that the nisaa' are the same as the azway. If the Qur'an call different thing, then they are different things. The azway are the mates or wives of the prophet and the nisaa' I take it to mean the women of his family, whether daughters or any other relationship but who are considered of his family.
As to the wives of the prophet being mothers of the believers that obviously is a social conideration and also a moral one. The wives the prophet those who stay with him after being given the choice of leaving him with a compensation or staying with him and leading a life with more restrictions than other women, it is understood that those women give up rights for the sake of the community in the way of God. It is a high social and moral consideration for them and also a high and ocial conideration for believers, since they are "children" of mothers who give up everything for the sake of God.
Some people ay that they are called mothers of the believers because they cannot marry anybody after the death of the prophet on the grounds that a woman cannot marry her sons, but that would mean that he mouminin meant in the aya are only males. I do not see that in the text anysuch restriction is made nor why should it, ince it is already mentionned that they are not marry after the death of the prophet.
As to the "that was" , I do not see any problem with it. It is completed action, so it was "written" but it is still effective, like "do not kill" it was written and is still written and it is forever written. That is, nothing new under the sun.
In 33.28 I do not see why you ay that the prophet is twice addressedin that aya. I can see only one in the original.
For verse 3332, I have to ask if Prophet who was asked to verify the truthfulness of new believing women would marry a bunch of uncontrollable ones whom Allah had to personally tell how they should behave. Strangely, just a few verses away, Allah says they already were hearing Quran in their "houses" (hmm, multiple houses).
I can't see it that way, and I do not have to necessarily conjecture that women of the prophet were of any particular kind. In this case it is the nisaa' not the azway, but even if it were the azway, to me what the aya indicate is that they were free women who might not have cared much about appearance or gossips and who had for a long time lived the hardest part of the struggle of the community, which now becoms free and buoyant. It is clear from the text that they ow have the possiblity of becoming like the principal wome of yore, and parade their wealth or importance. It i not saying that they are this or that or that tey will become this or that it is just warning that thoe things might happen and that they are not any mmore any women but women who will be put on the spot all the time. They, or some of them might be naive, not loose but naive and be taken advantage of by political or social climbers. I do not find that it characerises in any way any woman, but just warn about the traps ahead. Also, even without wanting it, they might indeed feel tempted after so much struggle to release themselves of the sress and try to enjoy the lighter parts of life. Nothing wrong with it in itself but may be not advisable in the circumstances, that those who have been enjoining self sacrifice and not loving of luxury should tart loving luxury as soon as they get the opportunity, which i understandable in itself. At least I understand it, but again without presuming badness in the persons, it is human. After keeping the reins for years and years, who will not want to take a little revenge on hardship? I would, just for a little while, not forver, but just a little.
Imagine if now we got reports that as soon as the Prophet becam victorious and wealthy, his family and the women of his family suddenly caved in into luxury and verything that was criticised before... Those of his wives who did not want to continue a life of restrictions were given the option to leave him with a proper compensation, but those who stayed had to adhere to the conditions. It was heir choice. Those that were not his wives or mates, but othr members of hi family were simply warned.
Salaam
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Oops, sorry guys, I made a mistake. Correction provided.
for the name is not persian and not found in Quran.
I have been suspicious of the name Aisha for a long time.
Anyways, I dissected the first part of verse 3328 a little more. yayyuh is not supposed to be O Prophet, but O believers/people.
The occurrences of the word in other verses http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/roots/Alif-Ya-Ya.html
Why didn't the translations mention O believers/ people? Why cut it out?I then went to verse 3330. I see a strange thing here also. Neither Islam awakened nor corpus is letting me check
Can we truly see its meaning as whoever or human beings?Going into anatomy of the verses is a lengthy process. I have less time right now. What I have found so far strengthens my suspicion about the other verses about the prophet's wives".
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people was blindly follow the tradition at the time of prophet so logicially as a duty of last messenger he need to finish that traditions in shape of setting examples for the believers.. for example the case of zaid. he was adopted son. the case of getting married with widow divorced . virgin. elder in age so on,,,whatever the number of marriage is not matter ,, what matter is the reason behind it. its quite clear as a last messenger and prophet he fullfills all these requirements for the sake of generations not for polygamy or lust or some own desires. why dnt people understand properly instead of twisting the meanings.
advice to all of you plz get some time and read different versions of transaltion of full topic or full chapter so that you get your answers and reasons. only Allah can help and put things on ur mind. do this experience inshAllah you guys will get better answers than anybody else.
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Oops, sorry guys, I made a mistake. Correction provided.I have been suspicious of the name Aisha for a long time.
Anyways, I dissected the first part of verse 3328 a little more. yayyuh is not supposed to be O Prophet, but O believers/people.
The occurrences of the word in other verses http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/roots/Alif-Ya-Ya.html
Why didn't the translations mention O believers/ people? Why cut it out?I then went to verse 3330. I see a strange thing here also. Neither Islam awakened nor corpus is letting me check
Can we truly see its meaning as whoever or human beings?Going into anatomy of the verses is a lengthy process. I have less time right now. What I have found so far strengthens my suspicion about the other verses about the prophet's wives".
Reel, ya ayyuha, is just a vocative, it is not people people is naas. When it addresses people it says Ya ayyuha annaas, when it addresses the believers it is ya ayyuha allathina amanu.
So in 33.28 it is indeed addressing the nabi.
As to man in 33.30 Man is a pronoun who indeed means whoever.
I tend to be wary of translations but in this case, the thing you mention seem to me all right.
Concerning the poligamy thing, it hass been and is still around particularly with another name or without name particularly with people who can afford it and pick and obviously do not worry about morals. Cases where one can ee a moral justification for it, for one sex or the other, are exceptions. The Qur'an along the period or revelations seemingly proressively set higher standards of social morals, but as said in some ayas it tried to prevent exccesses but not to destroy familhy tie that were already existing before any reform or improvement. o what that meant for the prophet, wo was an example for people in this question was to set an end to acquiring any wives.
I hardly see that anything better could have been done without falling into fanaticism and hypocrisy.
I know that some christian missionaries when come in places where there was poligamy when people converted undid the marriages and forced the men to have ony one wife, That did not arrange anything for the wive with children that were left hanging and illegal, but created more problem than solved specially in populations with women overnumbering men. Finlly if hey had not broken the marriages they could always have divorced if they did find somebody else whomthey could marry monogamously and it was better for them and their children.
Breaking everything up because one is in possession of the truth
may not be the most human way to a better society and openness about difficult situations is always better tha double talk and bad behaviour under pious appearances.Salaam
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No, the prophet is made an exception of in the Qur'an but not to allow himmore leeway but less.
You are correct, Huruf
Prophet was an exception regarding marriageBut i cannot understand this from you
The Qur'andoes not prohibit poligamy neither masculine or feminine, but it makes it plai that the normal ordinary marriage is the monogamous one.
You mean to quran allows polygamy for women
this is surprising
you mean to say even women can have more than husbands one at any given point of time
or is that i misunderstood your meaning -
not for polygamy or lust or some own desires
Of course not. That's why we have been wondering. Newfreemind has valid question which gives birth to another question of why would he have multiple wives if we consider the entire Quran which seems to scream "you have a lot of work to do". The idea that Prophet was allowed, but not the believers does not exactly gel well neither with his work nor Allah. Sectarians had similar answer when we used to ask them why he married a kid. Their excuse was, "well, that was a gift from God". Truth is that I can't find a verse justifying the reason for him to have multiple "uncontrollable" Muslim wives in....multiple houses. But again, we already have some confusion about the mate of Adam also.
Reel, ya ayyuha, is just a vocative, it is not people people is naas.
So its O Prophet O Prophet? I am not yet convinced.
Concerning the poligamy thing, it hass been and is still around particularly with another name or without name particularly with people who can afford it and pick and obviously do not worry about morals. Cases where one can ee a moral justification for it, for one sex or the other, are exceptions. The Qur'an along the period or revelations seemingly proressively set higher standards of social morals, but as said in some ayas it tried to prevent exccesses but not to destroy familhy tie that were already existing before any reform or improvement. o what that meant for the prophet, wo was an example for people in this question was to set an end to acquiring any wives.
I hardly see that anything better could have been done without falling into fanaticism and hypocrisy.
I think we already know the amount of chaos polygamy brings to a family. Yes, it was practiced earlier and did create some of the worse historical moments throughout the world.
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Of course not. That's why we have been wondering. Newfreemind has valid question which gives birth to another question of why would he have multiple wives if we consider the entire Quran which seems to scream "you have a lot of work to do". The idea that Prophet was allowed, but not the believers does not exactly gel well neither with his work nor Allah. Sectarians had similar answer when we used to ask them why he married a kid. Their excuse was, "well, that was a gift from God". Truth is that I can't find a verse justifying the reason for him to have multiple "uncontrollable" Muslim wives in....multiple houses.
I am just speculating here and could be completely wrong but it may have something to do with bringing tribes closer together, uniting them via family ties? Or as a means to free slaves?
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I am just speculating here and could be completely wrong but it may have something to do with bringing tribes closer together, uniting them via family ties? Or as a means to free slaves?
I have been using similar speculations and I will not say that they are wrong; they seem reasonable but at the same time these conclusions put the message of the Quran under a different category,which I find difficult to understand with my reasoning right now.
The reason why the above doesn't sound going well with the message of Quran on how the prophet was the exception as a result of him being restricted(if we holds Huruf's view), is because if we replace the scenario above then I would like to know what would have happened.
SP1)Let's say the way to bring peace, avoid war and so on, was to drink alcohol and eat pork as opposed to marry someone.
As I state the above, we also have to imagine for a minute that verses in the Quran are different and they tell the prophet to drink alcohol and eat pork,however these verses don't give any reason as to why(so we start creating the SP1 speculation)
Now,would the message of God really risk delivering a message that gives the prophet an exemption under a form of restriction(let's say the restriction in this case was to eat pork and have alcohol for the rest of his life), and forbid/discourage/not recommend others from doing so without explaining why such restriction/exception was imposed on the prophet?
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There is not exemption or restriction special for te prophet as regards having more than one wife. Nothing of the sort is said in the Qur'an. So as to that you are inventing whatever exemption or whatever restriction. If you are affirming such a thing, please quote the aya where such a thing is said.
Second, with your pork comparison. Do you think those who might have eaten pork before the prohibition was revealed and transmitted would you say that they should vomit outright all of the pork they had eaten before? Or what do you suggest?
Salaam
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Okay, I am getting only a little bit of it when I read verse 3050. I understand that new female Muslim women going somewhere alone would not be considered desirable by men of those days. But the last part of the verse still makes me wonder why God says it won't be discomfort for the prophet.
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There is not exemption or restriction special for te prophet as regards having more than one wife. Nothing of the sort is said in the Qur'an. So as to that you are inventing whatever exemption or whatever restriction. If you are affirming such a thing, please quote the aya where such a thing is said.
Nobody is prohibited to marry any more women escept the prophet. Nobody i forbidden to divorce from his wives, any of them but the prophet is. and neither can he devorce one and then gt another one instead. He is forbidden things he is not given mor freedomthan others but less.
According to you, there was restriction on the prophet as to whether he could marry more women.
Second, with your pork comparison. Do you think those who might have eaten pork before the prohibition was revealed and transmitted would you say that they should vomit outright all of the pork they had eaten before? Or what do you suggest?
SalaamI would suggest that they stop eating pork and drinking alcohol. Fact is that such thing is a rule for everyone in the Quran, there's very little ambiguity as to whether you can or cannot eat pork or drink alcohol. AND, if there was an exception in the Quran as to whether you're allowed to drink or eat pork, this would be explained with reasoning by telling you that you can't.
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I do not know what you want to get at and it seems to me that you disregard some of the things I say and then come with the same thing again and again as if I had not said anything.
As to the restriction to the prophet, it was a restriction that was not on the number because at that time he was also told to tell the wives he had to choose whether to stay with him under the conditions that are also meant in the Qur'an or to leave him with nice compensation. In the Qur'an we are not told how many left and how many stayed, which goes to show that the number is not the question, and you cannot say from there that he was allowed a greater or a leser number of wives than anybody else. Just that at that point he was told to let go of those who did not accept God's conditions and keep those who accepted them and not make any change in that after that. That, as it is obvious, does not say he was allowed a greater or a lesser number of wive tha anybody else.
You say don't eat pork after that. Exactly the same as with any other dissposition that cmes in the Qur'an, after it comes, you have to follow it, before itis another question but you keep on and on that from the beginning there were different set of rules for the prophet and for other as regards poligamy and that in spite of rules for all people regardless, the prophet kept adding wives and wives thanks to a particular rule for him, which obviously you disapprove strongly.
Fine, disapprove as much a you want, but please do bring proof that the prophet got indeed aproval for a greater number of wives than anybody else. Please quote those ayas, please do, and let us stop running around.
As to pork, God makes exception indeed.
2.173 Sahih International He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah. But whoever is forced , neither desiring nor transgressing , there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.If we are told to marry the singles, we do have to marry the singles, except if we are unable to. Women should not marry married men, but if there are many single men or single women in proportions greater than the other sex, the single of them there would still have to be married, if they desire so unless you want to condemn on your own responsibility great chunks of people to a life without marriage and without children.
We should not forget the aleyas about the heifer to be sacrificed. We are nit-picking, but that we nit-pick does not make us any more sincere or better willed or better hearted. We all know finally why we do things, whether out of good will and got intentions, or selfseeking and sef-righteous.
No amount of turning the Qur'an provisions right and left and this way and that is going to make up for lack of real commitment to goodness and mercy, for ourselves and for our fellowbeings. If we lack that, we may be as monogamous as we care it will do us no good.
Salaam