Reason and belief
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So the first principle of Islam is the rejection of all gods, all false attributions. It is the Anti-God religion. It is the War against the "Gods".
Every day, the Muslims raise up their finger and make a declaration of War against the Gods to purify themselves of falsehood.
We can start there. Please don't be shy to ask me anything you might want to. I know the arrogance of people can lead them to not really share any real question they may have and instead turn to mockery or something else instead, which is only a wasted opportunity for you.
- Rejection of All Gods/Powers (the Iconoclasm) until you reach the Ultimate conclusion (the process that Ibrahim is described as going through in his stories)
- Acknowledgment of Only the Ultimate (but it needs the right definition and understanding)
- The Qur'an does not matter, if it says something wrong, then those statements are to be rejected, this religion goes beyond all the scriptures, luckily the Qur'an doesn't actually say anything wrong, people just interpret it in different ways, when one's MIND IS SET RIGHT FIRST that is what makes the difference. That is why the Qur'an is "for the believers" those who already have the right mindset. Allah misguides those with their minds set on wrong ideas, they can then find in the Qur'an that God is a man or any number of stupid ideas they want to make.
- Right channeling of everything, including things like hate, anger, and fear.
- Utilization of as much as possible towards good ends, even idols and the various "signs and symbols" towards good reminders and meanings whenever they become present, this is having one's mind set on seeing things with insight and in a meditative way. Just like the Qur'an, the very same symbols and signs can be involved with false and misleading thoughts for some people.
What is Islam all about? Islam should be all about being right. To do what is best of all and get what is best of all and be what is best of all.
There should be no blind faith, and everything should have clear and well reasoned justifications and reasoning backing it up strongly.
What is logically necessary is all that we should comprehend as true, and we should not believe much in the transitory things which don't matter too much anyway except for as far as they might help us in making decisions pertaining to life and other strategies.
Islam is not a very complex religion at all, and neither is plain logic and common sense very difficult, except that people perhaps lack patience to follow through with the thoughts to their absolute ends. Often, things make sense to people the way things make sense in dreams, and upon awakening, those things are realized as clearly dreamy hallucinations, illusions with only the chemical of acceptance behind them."
"Good questions.
The Shahada can be false in what people imagine, or they can deal with it in an honest understanding. It is an affirmation of the basic creed of Islam and its underlying core, which is the rejection of all Gods/Powers other than the Ultimate, and then added to it also was that Muhammed is the slave and messenger of Allah. None of the statements are false if understood correctly. It can be considered an affirmation and meditation on the essential truths
- There is no power whatsoever other than Allah.
- What is the Ultimate and Only Power is what is being called Allah, it is not supposed to be anything that people imagine, but is unlike everything. Everything is information, it is not information, it can only ever be One.
- The one that the Qur'an is attributed to is known as Muhammed, regardless if he told the truth or lies, like all that exists, he was a slave and a messenger of Allah.
If someone is imagining their cousin Muhammed Jameel that is not what the creed is about, that is their own imagination. It is merely a tool, like the whole performance of the prayer.
People doubt why they should mention Muhammed, because they are associating things with Muhammed or in their imagination, and it works to expose their doubts concerning him or his existence.
The Qur'an exists, its a book, the one who brought the book is generally known as Muhammed. Whoever brought the book, called Muhammed, was a slave like we are all slaves, and a messenger of Allah, even the most foul mouthed liars are servants and messengers of Allah, no sacrifice is being made in these statements, except the Qur'an speaks the truth, and Muhammed is the one said to have brought it, so we are also affirming that we believe in the Qur'an, that it is a message of Allah, which again is true, even if it were all lies from top to bottom, again no sacrifices are being made in these statements.
It is a full statement and meditation against shirk, and mentioning that Muhammed is merely a slave and messenger like any other is not a glorification of Muhammed, but reminding people what he is, not a God, not a Savior, but a Slave who brought a Message, the Message was the Qur'an, it doesn't matter what the Qur'an says, it is just that is what he was, a slave who brought a message and thus a messenger."
"Good question! It is assumed by many people the one the Muslims call Ibrahim was a semitic language speaker. I have no certain knowledge what language he spoke or what word he used. The Qur'an describes something which has taken on the word Islam these days and is generally said to mean "Surrender".
I give it the longer definition at times, due to some of the common meanings associated with the root word and other implications "realizing peace/relief/healing by complete and utter surrender/submission/acknowledgment of the Truth/Reality (which is that Allah is the only power and cause of everything, the one to fear and the one we rely on willingly or unwillingly always)".
If anyone in the past had such an understanding, I don't know. If Ibrahim existed or how he existed or what he believed, I don't know. The Mormons for example rudely make a Book of the statements of Abraham and he is constantly talking about "Gods" and the Bible makes him out to be what seems to be a lying pimp. I eschew those things, and I prefer what the Qur'an depicts, the truth of which is moreover in its utility than in its history, the history of which matters little to me compared to its uses for our benefit."
"Now you may notice "peace/relief/healing" was mentioned, as the result of coming to terms with some sort of "truth" generally accepted to be concerning the nature of the Ultimate Reality, that is, what I call God.
From The Terrible Temple of FreedomStands http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607788.0
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I am grateful to all who have generously responded here. Thank you!
You are welcome )
Faruk,
You are quite daring that you actually read entire posts of Freedomstands D That said, he was very lively. But there are things he didn't mention in this post of his and that would leave any new interested person confused.Every day, the Muslims raise up their finger and make a declaration of War against the Gods to purify themselves of falsehood.
I don't think we are at war against Gods. We are just accepting there is only One. Saying declaration of War against the Gods asserts that we won't let anyone worship their respective Gods.
- Rejection of All Gods/Powers (the Iconoclasm) until you reach the Ultimate conclusion (the process that Ibrahim is described as going through in his stories)
This one assumes that we first became atheist and then chose the One.
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The Qur'an does not matter, if it says something wrong, then those statements are to be rejected, this religion goes beyond all the scriptures, luckily the Qur'an doesn't actually say anything wrong, people just interpret it in different ways, when one's MIND IS SET RIGHT FIRST that is what makes the difference. That is why the Qur'an is "for the believers" those who already have the right mindset. Allah misguides those with their minds set on wrong ideas, they can then find in the Qur'an that God is a man or any number of stupid ideas they want to make.
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Right channeling of everything, including things like hate, anger, and fear
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Utilization of as much as possible towards good ends, even idols and the various "signs and symbols" towards good reminders and meanings whenever they become present, this is having one's mind set on seeing things with insight and in a meditative way. Just like the Qur'an, the very same symbols and signs can be involved with false and misleading thoughts for some people.
He knew how to set the tone for sure. First shock the readers and then unlock the mystery. He is right here. I feel thankful to Allah that he gives us the freedom to express and be individuals.
It is a full statement and meditation against shirk, and mentioning that Muhammed is merely a slave and messenger like any other is not a glorification of Muhammed, but reminding people what he is, not a God, not a Savior, but a Slave who brought a Message, the Message was the Qur'an, it doesn't matter what the Qur'an says, it is just that is what he was, a slave who brought a message and thus a messenger."
That's the mainstream view. They all tell us that they don't worship Muhammad. But eating like him, following his fashion, etc are not so different from how a little monster follows Lady Gaga out of admiration. And yes, now Gaga does call herself Goddess and her position is not wrong. And it seems corruptions begin as soon as a human or statue is picked to be the focus of the religion. Have you seen an unusual change taking place in the mainstream Islam? People are slowly replacing Allah with Muhammad. I mean it is no more about what God tells us to do. It is just all about the Prophet. Even Miss Malala in her nobel prize speech was all over Muhammad instead of Allah. Same thing was seen in the mosque leaders who served tea and cookies to EDL. They went something like "what prophet would do in this situation".
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You are welcome
Faruk,
You are quite daring that you actually read entire posts of Freedomstands D That said, he was very lively. But there are things he didn't mention in this post of his and that would leave any new interested person confused.Salam. Yes I read all his posts. I found it interesting and eye opening. Not to be confused , you have to read all his posts. I miss him.
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Dear Mr. HP_TECH,Peace,
In reply to a member on this forum,(let me cal him "A"
you said ,"read the
book first for his guidance, and then give your opinion"
OK,are you suggesting that "A" has never read the book?Please do reply so that small fries like me may understand you and islam.
Next you wrote that read the Book for guidance,well why you needed to say so,every body is doing it so,but there is a point of insult to fellow "A" that he has not read the book hence has no guidance from Allah.Well if you are correct then I am sure ,that you have read the Book and have received the guidance from Allah..!! Well if so,would you please like to share with us that how or what guidance you received,or who guided you,did u receive some information in dream,or heard a voice out of no where,or did u received a piece of paperwith some guidance written on it,or u just got inspired by Allah..???
you said about "A" that perhaps he not reading the book..!! well but how do you determine this??how do you dteremine that which member is guided or not.?
you said "A" should not give his opinion if he has not read the book and received guidance , well if so dont u know that many members of this forum are not muslims,even if muslims ,hve not read the book fully,even if read the book have not understood it fully ,like u have, and might not have received guidance ,like u have,.U have made a fun of "A" (I am trying to hide his name from being dishonored /ashamed) -
Dear Mr. HP_TECH,Peace,
In reply to a member on this forum,(let me cal him "A"
you said ,"read the
book first for his guidance, and then give your opinion"Read the Book seeking His guidance first then make your opinions
Would you start giving your opinions about a Book when you haven't finished it? If so, I repeat the same to you as well.
It is a perfectly sound advice.OK,are you suggesting that "A" has never read the book?Please do reply so that small fries like me may understand you and islam.
Are you kidding me? Read the entire Original Post again. I have never conveyed anyone is a small fry
my reasoning does not succeed in reconciling, on the one hand, the concept of God/Allah being the all-knowing predeterminer of good and evil alike, and, on the other hand, free will, which, we are told, is to determine for a person a fate either of heaven or hell. How, I must ask, can a person be held responsible for what was predetermined by his Maker? How can a loving God predetermine eternal hellfire for his creation, a human being? If I believe in a loving God, which must be the foundation of any religious concepts I adopt, then I cannot believe there is a hell. This is what reason, presumably endowed by God, tells me!
Can someone who is on guidance from His Lord by reading the Quran, deny Hell? That is in fact opposite The rejecters destined for Hell deny it and the meeting with Allah.
Can someone who has read the entire Book earnestly have any doubts about Allah and be guided?The OP also asked if mystery and mysticism have a place in Islam. Does someone who asks such a question have firm grasp of what is in the Quran?
Does someone who is firm on Quran, get told by a woman is interested in marrying that she is a Quranist and then get suckered into seeking help from traditionalists and sectarians at the local mosque?
Do not ask foolish questions marifhaq.
Running to the defense of the doubter, instead of the one firm on faith, who directs to Allah and His Book?
Next you wrote that read the Book for guidance,well why you needed to say so,every body is doing it so,but there is a point of insult to fellow "A" that he has not read the book hence has no guidance from Allah.
It is conveyed in the OP in my opinion a desire to assimilate with Muslim culture to acquire marriage relationship, not the desire to truly understand Islam as in the Quran.
That is why he went to a local mosque. Instead of seeking Allah through the Reading.
Can someone who is on guidance from His Lord by reading the Quran, deny Hell? That is in fact opposite The rejecters destined for Hell deny it and the meeting with Allah.
Can someone who has read the entire Book earnestly have any doubts about Allah and be guided?Well if you are correct then I am sure ,that you have read the Book and have received the guidance from Allah..!!
I follow the guidance of Allah in His Book! Not He is unkind to me in my supplication to Him!
Well if so,would you please like to share with us that how or what guidance you received,or who guided you,did u receive some information in dream,or heard a voice out of no where,or did u received a piece of paperwith some guidance written on it,or u just got inspired by Allah..???
Go back behind you and seek light!
you said about "A" that perhaps he not reading the book..!! well but how do you determine this??how do you dteremine that which member is guided or not.?
By everything he conveyed in his post. Deductive reasoning. Give it another read and suppress your anger.
you said "A" should not give his opinion if he has not read the book and received guidance , well if so dont u know that many members of this forum are not muslims,even if muslims ,hve not read the book fully,even if read the book have not understood it fully ,like u have, and might not have received guidance ,like u have,.
4035 Those who dispute concerning the Signs of Allah without any authority having come to them, it is greatly hateful in the sight of Allah and in the sight of those who believe. Thus Allah sets a seal over the heart of every arrogant, tyrant.?
U have made a fun of "A" (I am trying to hide his name from being dishonored /ashamed)
No indeed you were mocking me
Well if you are correct then I am sure ,that you have read the Book and have received the guidance from Allah..!! Well if so,would you please like to share with us that how or what guidance you received,or who guided you,did u receive some information in dream,or heard a voice out of no where,or did u received a piece of paperwith some guidance written on it,or u just got inspired by Allah..???
Evil is what your faith calls you to if you are a believer
And of who do you come in defense of, the firm believer or the doubter?
Was your help asked for?
Did the OP not ask for advice and then brushed off my sincerest advice when it did not suit him?
Who are you here to support, the firm believer or the one who is unsure of Allah and seeks to conform to gain a mere marital relationship?
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HP_TECH, You dodged his questions for your rant about denying Hell while he asked sound questions you did not answer wisely.
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HP_TECH, You dodged his questions for your rant about denying Hell while he asked sound questions you did not answer wisely.
Exactly what I said you come up with two liners, because you are angry about my response to you in another posts. You never answered any of my questions there. You rather dodged all my questions. Go and answer them, then tell me which questions I have dodged if you are truthful.
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Hell is not eternal, neither is Paradise, only God is eternal.
And all that has come from God will return to God. The Qur'an plenty of times states that our destiny is God. There i no eternity for u either in heaven or hell we will end up in God.
What is bet for us is to fall in love with God, so that if we suffer we suffer with satisfaction. Adn that we know the delight of total love.
Predestination is a toy idea.
We may think of that because we are bound by time. We are completely unable even to imagine timelessness.
So whe we get into those discussions we are handling elements of which we have no knowledge and on which we have no power.
There is the aya where we are told to construe de best meaning out of what we read in the Qur'an.
What is the best meaning we can get of justice, of the jahannam, of paradise of etrnity.
Look at the dogs, they may have no intellect but they have world of trust. You may go for a long time, they alway trust you will be back. they may be naughty but they never doubt you or stand up against you. They are happy even in very tough and trying circumstances if thyknow you acknowledge as belonging to you. They already have their share of paradise. Are they wrong?
God can make universes not only cese to exist but to not have existed. What is this worry as beforehand and after. That is us not God. Whatever answer we come up with is th answer of the ignorant. We are talking of magnitudes that we cannot grasp not conceive.
God is our master and whateve He does is what it should be.
Salaam