Does salat really means 'Ritual Prayers' ?

good_logic

Peace almarh0m.

OK. I get you. Then you believe "Aquimi Salat" to be some form of contact with GOD. So where does the details of how to "Aquimi salat" come from?
Certainly not hadith!!!
The way we observe "Aquimi, Salah", is not based on Hadith. Qoran teaches us that its rituals were in existence and were delivered and practised by prophet Abraham way before Qoran and prophet Muhammad's time.

You shall strive for the cause of God as you should strive for His cause. He has chosen you and has placed no hardship on you in practising your deen - the Millat of your father Abraham. He is the one who named you "Muslimeen" originally. Thus, the messenger shall serve as a witness among you, and you shall serve as witnesses among the people. Therefore, you shall Aquimi Salat and give the Zakat, and hold fast to God; He is your Lord, the best Lord and the best Supporter.

As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient.
"Our Lord, make us Muslimeen to You, and from our descendants let there be a community of Muslimeen to You. Teach us the rites of our religion, and redeem us. You are the Redeemer, Most Merciful.

Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham,* the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.

Yes Abraham was taught "Iquami Salat" by GOD, In turn Abraham taught his followers and each generation of believers taught the next and so on. "Iquami Salat" was taught from generation to generation all the way back from Abraham.

Believing in Quran alone mandates the belief in the words stated by God to teach us the above system of how we inherited our rites including of course our "Aquimi Salat". This system is spelled out in 16123, 4125, 2278, and 2127-128.

Ignoring this clear system issued by God, and hanging on our personal wishes to find all the details of our rituals in Qoran only reflects our disbelief in Qoran itself, the lack of trust in its divinity, and the lack of trust in God and His systems. .

Indeed, Qoran is complete and fully detailed. Part of its complete details is the above system of inheriting our rites from Abraham. Either we believe in it or we choose to be with those who take the word of God partially and conditionally.
Qoran only corrected what was corrupted by people. i.e that "Aquimi Salat" is to be dedicated to GOD Alone.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Wakas

Claim

Ignoring this clear system issued by God, and hanging on our personal wishes to find all the details of our rituals in Qoran only reflects our disbelief in Qoran itself, the lack of trust in its divinity, and the lack of trust in God and His systems. .

Reality
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607918.msg377846#msg377846

almarh0m

Peace be with you all

First, I would like to inform my respected brothers and sisters in this forum that, it is not my intention to debate or argue about the subject at hand, but rather to have an intelligent discussions based on the reality of life and of course The Qur'an. Never occurred to me to engage in any discourse with an intention to win or lose. I am here as other fellow Qur'anists to learn, to obtain knowledge and wisdom from Allah's guidance and commandments through the learned Brothers and sisters. I realize of course that all knowledge and wisdom come from our creator, but we all need to go through the normal learning processes in order for Allah to guide us and increases our knowledge and wisdom. And I am forever grateful to Allah for this forum's existence, and my heart felt thanks to all the dedicated people who make this forum available to all truth seekers.

Having copy-pasted the root word of salat i.e. Sad-Lam-Waw in an earlier post, I extracted only four meanings from those listed in the root to use in my effort to draw a more clear meaning to verses involving salat which I will refer to shortly. These meanings are 1. To honour, to follow closely, to remain attached, and finally commitment ( my own understanding from all the previously stated meanings). Why these four meanings only you may ask? The reason being these are the closest meanings that I could link to the purpose of salat, and why we are commanded by Allah to uphold/establish salat in the first place.

I think, It is important to ask from the above mentioned meanings, What is it to be honoured, follow closely or to remain attached to or to commit oneself to? The answer is of course the guidance and commandments/the law of Allah as given in Al Qur'an. Now, lets see the verse where Allah Himself commands to serve Him and uphold salat for His rememberance.

AQ 20/14 " "

"
Transliteration 14 Innanee ana Allahu la ilaha illa ana faoAAbudnee waaqimi alssalata lithikree

Yusuf Ali 14 "Verily, I am Allah There is no god but I So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

Mohsin Khan 14 "Verily! I am Allah! La ilaha illa Ana (none has the right to be worshipped but I), so worship Me, and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat) for My Remembrance.

Saheeh 14 Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance

From this verse it is clear as daylight that the purpose of salat is the rememberance of Allah, this verse linked the doer of salat to honour the guidance and commandments of Allah, likewise make people follow closely and remain attached and commit themselves to this guidance law/commandments of Allah in all their waking ( conscious ) hours. Which guidance and law of Allah to followed closely? Preferably the whole of The Qur'an but we can start with AQ 2/1-5, 3/18, and 31/1-5 and of course 6/151-153 without forgetting 17/36. This I feel is sufficient for any muslim and believers to start with by knowing the purpose of upholding salat.

As for the goal and object/effect of salat, most muslims know that by upholding salat we are guarded from evil thought and deeds ( here, I mean upholding salat) not ritual prayers. You don't need me to tell you that there hundreds of millions of people out there in the real world who performs regular ritual prayers every day of their lives. The question is, are these ritual prayers prevented these so called muslims from committing crimes or other evil deeds? The answer is a big No. Let us check A.Q 29/45, if following closely the guidance of Allah i.e. upholding salat that prevent us from committing vice or evil deed, or have the rituals prayers failed the multitude of muslim faithful?

A.Q. 29/45

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Transliteration 45 Otlu ma oohiya ilayka mina alkitabi waaqimi alssalata inna alssalata tanha AAani alfahshai waalmunkari walathikru Allahi akbaru waAllahu yaAAlamu ma tasnaAAoona

Yusuf Ali 45 Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee, and establish regular Prayer for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds; and remembrance of Allah is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And Allah knows the (deeds) that ye do.

Mohsin Khan 45 Recite (O Muhammad &#1605 what has been revealed to you of the Book (the Qur'an), and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat). Verily, As-Salat (the prayer) prevents from Al-Fahsha' (i.e. great sins of every kind, unlawful sexual intercourse) and Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism, and every kind of evil wicked deed) and the remembering (praising) of (you by) Allah (in front of the angels) is greater indeed , what has been revealed to you of the Book and establish prayer. Indeed, prayer prohibits immorality and wrongdoing, and the remembrance of Allah is greater. And Allah knows that which you do

Again, the above verse puts a lie to the notion that salat is equal to ritual prayers, if salat was ritual prayers, one would not see or find muslim/believers committing heinous crimes anywhere but the sad reality is the perpetrators of crimes and evil deeds such as corruptions, rapes and paedophilia in muslim majority countries are largely committed by people who professed to be muslims and most if not all of them are regular masjid goers and practitioners of ritual prayers. This is what drives me to find out for certain if salat is different from the proscribed ritual prayers without basis from The Qur'an.

Here is another verse to help clarify the difference between salat and ritual prayers.

A.Q 14/40

"
Transliteration 40 Rabbi ijAAalnee muqeema alssalati wamin thurriyyatee rabbana wtaqabbal duAAai

Yusuf Ali 40 O my Lord! make me one who establishes regular Prayer, and also (raise such) among my offspring O our Lord! and accept Thou my Prayer.

Mohsin Khan 40 "O my Lord! Make me one who performs As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat ), and (also) from my offspring, our Lord! And accept my invocation.

Saheeh 40 My Lord, make me an establisher of prayer, and from my descendants. Our Lord, and accept my supplication

Hope this verse help clarify that salat is following closely, Honouring, remain attached to and committed to the Book of Allah/Kitabullah. By the way, I agree with most of Brothers @Arman. @Someone and @ HP_TECH regarding ritual prayers is contained in the Salat but not vice versa.

Peace and may Allah increases our knowledge according to the effort that we put into that endeavour.

almarh0m

parvez_mushtaq

Peace be with you all

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As for the goal and object/effect of salat, most muslims know that by upholding salat we are guarded from evil thought and deeds ( here, I mean upholding salat) not ritual prayers. You don't need me to tell you that there hundreds of millions of people out there in the real world who performs regular ritual prayers every day of their lives. The question is, are these ritual prayers prevented these so called muslims from committing crimes or other evil deeds? The answer is a big No. Let us check A.Q 29/45, if following closely the guidance of Allah i.e. upholding salat that prevent us from committing vice or evil deed, or have the rituals prayers failed the multitude of muslim faithful?

A.Q. 29/45

"
Transliteration 45 Otlu ma oohiya ilayka mina alkitabi waaqimi alssalata inna alssalata tanha AAani alfahshai waalmunkari walathikru Allahi akbaru waAllahu yaAAlamu ma tasnaAAoona

Yusuf Ali 45 Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee, and establish regular Prayer for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds; and remembrance of Allah is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And Allah knows the (deeds) that ye do.

Mohsin Khan 45 Recite (O Muhammad &#1605 what has been revealed to you of the Book (the Qur'an), and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat). Verily, As-Salat (the prayer) prevents from Al-Fahsha' (i.e. great sins of every kind, unlawful sexual intercourse) and Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism, and every kind of evil wicked deed) and the remembering (praising) of (you by) Allah (in front of the angels) is greater indeed , what has been revealed to you of the Book and establish prayer. Indeed, prayer prohibits immorality and wrongdoing, and the remembrance of Allah is greater. And Allah knows that which you do

Again, the above verse puts a lie to the notion that salat is equal to ritual prayers, if salat was ritual prayers, one would not see or find muslim/believers committing heinous crimes anywhere but the sad reality is the perpetrators of crimes and evil deeds such as corruptions, rapes and paedophilia in muslim majority countries are largely committed by people who professed to be muslims and most if not all of them are regular masjid goers and practitioners of ritual prayers. This is what drives me to find out for certain if salat is different from the proscribed ritual prayers without basis from The Qur'an.

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almarh0m

I may agree with you everything about salat but not this .This was the idea of Inayatullah Khan Mashriqi.To my personal level (note that you have generalized your view point),Yes salah do prevent from fahisahd (shameful and unjust)provided if your salah is not under this verses
verse 104.4
So woe to those who pray
verse 104.5
who are heedless of their prayer -
verse 104.6
Those who make show

parvez_mushtaq

Peace almarh0m.

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Yes Abraham was taught "Iquami Salat" by GOD, In turn Abraham taught his followers and each generation of believers taught the next and so on. "Iquami Salat" was taught from generation to generation all the way back from Abraham.

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GOD bless you.
Peace.

wonder how Abraham(PBUH) knew about quran
did he read quran in his salah
really weird

good_logic

Peace Wakas.

Here is my reply to you
Peace Wakas.

Thank you for your post.

Here are the verses you requested

, ...

Muhammad A Follower of Abraham*

16123
Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham,* the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.

We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Salat and the obligatory charity (Zakat)....

GOD bless you.
Peace.

HP_TECH

wonder how Abraham(PBUH) knew about quran
did he read quran in his salah
really weird

Ibrahim was a prophet who also received Scripture this is written in Quran.

Wakas

peace GL,

Peace Wakas.

Here is my reply to you

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We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Salat and the obligatory charity (Zakat)....

Readers should study the actual Arabic
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=21&verse=73#(21731)

We made them leaders who guided by Our command and we revealed/inspired them the doing of good deeds and establishment of the salat and giving the zakat....

As the previous post link demonstrates GL's views on this are based on his assumptions and interpretations
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607918.msg377846#msg377846

hawk99

Peace, prayer is universal and a good thing, standing, bowing, and prostrating are mentioned in
Quran Kareem and Allah has not said that this standing, bowing, and prostrating are not to be
done physically, therefore if one concludes that standing, bowing, and prostrating are not
physical it is their opinion and not supported by Quran.

22/26 And when We assigned to Ibrahim the place of the House, saying Do not associate with Me aught,
and purify My House for those who make the circuit and stand to pray and bow and prostrate themselves.

peace

HP_TECH

Peace, prayer is universal and a good thing, standing, bowing, and prostrating are mentioned in
Quran Kareem and Allah has not said that this standing, bowing, and prostrating are not to be
done physically, therefore if one concludes that standing, bowing, and prostrating are not
physical it is their opinion and not supported by Quran.

22/26 And when We assigned to Ibrahim the place of the House, saying Do not associate with Me aught,
and purify My House for those who make the circuit and stand to pray and bow and prostrate themselves.

peace

bravo

Zulf

Peace, prayer is universal and a good thing, standing, bowing, and prostrating are mentioned in
Quran Kareem and Allah has not said that this standing, bowing, and prostrating are not to be
done physically, therefore if one concludes that standing, bowing, and prostrating are not
physical it is their opinion and not supported by Quran.

Sorry for being a pain in the a**, but I thought I'd comment on that.

Red But according to this logic, the opposite is also true. Allah has not said that it is not to be done "un-physically".
Green This 'therefore' depends on the logic soundness and validity of the red.
Blue This becomes only another opinion.

HP_TECH

Sorry for being a pain in the a**, but I thought I'd comment on that.

Red But according to this logic, the opposite is also true. Allah has not said that it is not to be done "un-physically".
Green This 'therefore' depends on the logic soundness and validity of the red.
Blue This becomes only another opinion.

Your desire to just oppose has out your foot in your own mouth.
Standing, bowing an prostrating sound like unphysical to you?
Come on now. You'll only be a source of pain to your own soul

parvez_mushtaq

Ibrahim was a prophet who also received Scripture this is written in Quran.

Yes ,you are correct ,it was mention in surah Aala

So ALLAH subhananvatala thought Abraham (pbuh) how to perform salah as per GL
i agree with him as well as with you ,so Abraham(pbuh) read his scripture in salah

and this procedure was transformed to our prophet thru the way told by GL , i agree with him 100%

Yes Abraham was taught "Iquami Salat" by GOD, In turn Abraham taught his followers and each generation of believers taught the next and so on. "Iquami Salat" was taught from generation to generation all the way back from Abraham.

And our prophet ,performed salah as performed by Abraham(pbuh),imean read suhufaa Ibrahim in his salah at least till this verse from surah muzammli was reveled

Surah 73 Aya 4
Or add to it, and recite the Qur'an with measured recitation.
note that even before this revelation our prophet performed salah as per the verse from surah alaq suggests
verse 96.10
A servant when he prays?

My question is , did Ibrahim alaissalam had all the criterion mention in the quran ,namely ,standing,bowing ,prostration or only bowing and prostration ....I want proof from quran
if this was his procedure then why it cant be the same procedure that we are following now because in both cases this procedure was transformed by performing generation after generation

good_logic

Peace Wakas.

I really am assuming that "reveal" / inspire" does mean teach and why not?

If you happen to agree that GOD revealed to Abraham how to establish salat ,then how come you are not assuming ,but I am?

The bottom line is this
I have no idea how one comes to the conclusion that salat is taught in hadith. If you put a person on an island with hadith books only , he will know how to perform salat?

Actually if one has not witnessed people doing "salat", by watching and learning from each other, no one will know how to do salat?

GOD has "taught" ( revealed /inspired)Abraham how to do salat according to Qoran. Then Abraham taught his children/people, then it was taught down the line to our day.

GOD only corrected the corruption that were introduced into "salat" or changed certain instruction that he made clear in the scriptures that followed Abraham. GOD tries generations according to HIS knowledge and wisdom.

That is my understanding about "salat".
GOD bless you.
Peace.

almarh0m

Peace be with you all

I hope some of the brothers here do not make the errors of presuming that "Salat" is only ordained or obligated upon muslims from the time of Ibrahim. We know that The Deen of Allah ( Deen Al Islam) went back to ante-deluvian time or at least since the time of Prophet Nuh, perhaps even all the way back to the advent of intelligent human beings. We could see this through AQ 4213 which is as follows..

4213 "
Transliteration 13 SharaAAa lakum mina alddeeni ma wassa bihi noohan waallathee awhayna ilayka wama wassayna bihi ibraheema wamoosa waAAeesa an aqeemoo alddeena wala tatafarraqoo feehi kabura AAala almushrikeena ma tadAAoohum ilayhi Allahu yajtabee ilayhi man yashao wayahdee ilayhi man yuneebu

Yusuf Ali 13 The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).

Mohsin Khan 13 He (Allah) has ordained for you the same religion (Islamic Monotheism) which He ordained for Nuh (Noah), and that which We have revealed to you (O Muhammad &#1605, and that which We ordained for Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses) and '?sa (Jesus) saying you should establish religion (i.e. to do what it orders you to do practically), and make no divisions in it (religion) (i.e. various sects in religion). Intolerable for the Mushrikun, is that (Islamic Monotheism) to which you (O Muhammad &#1605 call them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills, and guides unto Himself who turns to Him in repentance and in obedience.

Saheeh 13 He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, , and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back .

We have no reason to doubt that theDeen mentioned in verse is none other that Deenul Islam which we all know enjoined salat in it. We can go further back than even the time of Nuh if we care to look at these verses 319 and 383.

"
Transliteration 19 Inna alddeena AAinda Allahi alislamu wama ikhtalafa allatheena ootoo alkitaba illa min baAAdi ma jaahumu alAAilmu baghyan baynahum waman yakfur biayati Allahi fainna Allaha sareeAAu alhisabi

Yusuf Ali 19 The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will) Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.

Mohsin Khan 19 Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah, then surely, Allah is Swift in calling to account.

Saheeh 19 Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah, then indeed, Allah is swift in account

And 383

"
Transliteration 83 Afaghayra deeni Allahi yabghoona walahu aslama man fee alssamawati waalardi tawAAan wakarhan wailayhi yurjaAAoona

Yusuf Ali 83 Do they seek for other than the Religion of Allah?-while all creatures in the heavens and on earth have, willing or unwilling, bowed to His Will (Accepted Islam), and to Him shall they all be brought back.

Mohsin Khan 83 Do they seek other than the religion of Allah (the true Islamic Monotheism - worshipping none but Allah Alone), while to Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned.

Saheeh 83 So is it other than the religion of Allah they desire, while to Him have submitted those within the heavens and earth, willingly or by compulsion, and to Him they will be returned?

If salat was really the ritual prayers as most muslims believe, we would have seen traces of those communities from the earliest time or even just from the time of Nuh down to the time of Isa ibnu Maryam, at least in the forms of inscriptions or crude drawings regarding the performance of the so called ritual prayers. The fact remains to be seen, as at from the time of writing, I am not yet aware of any archaeological finding in respect of this very important matters to all muslims.

Peace
almarh0m

parvez_mushtaq

Peace Wakas.

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The bottom line is this
I have no idea how one comes to the conclusion that salat is taught in hadith. If you put a person on an island with hadith books only , he will know how to perform salat?

Actually if one has not witnessed people doing "salat", by watching and learning from each other, no one will know how to do salat?

I fully agree with you GL
it is impossible to perform salah by reading Ahadith
and the same holds true for Quran also .(i know what will be next answer of JAQs(Jamat ie Alhulu Quran) .it might be " quran has detailed everything and not believing in that is kufur"of course you may come out with a verse from quran )
but the reality is quran does not have the exact procedure of salah .we cannot expect ALLAH subhanavatala will send diagrams about salah (it may be bit weird way to talk but this what you people wanted) .so salah was there from the time of Ibrahim aslasisalam and may be much before him as almarh0m said in his post

Saheeh verse 42.13 He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, , and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back .

why quran does not give procedure of salah .....the answer is as follows (which was answered by GL and i am making few improvisations )

Actually if one has not witnessed people doing "salat", by watching and learning from each other, no one will know how to do salat?

GOD has "taught" ( revealed /inspired)Abraham how to do salat according to Qoran. Then Abraham taught his children/people, then it was taught down the line to our day.

Again ,i whole heartily accept the view point of GL,You cannot learn salah without watching it .one question remained unanswered by GL is that ,how did ALLAH subhanavatala thought Salah to Ibrahim alasisalam .note that it is clearly mention in quran ALLAH subahnmavatala never talked to anyone directly except to Musa alaissalam .so this leaves with two options ,either by dreams or by sending angel

GOD only corrected the corruption that were introduced into "salat" or changed certain instruction that he made clear in the scriptures that followed Abraham. GOD tries generations according to HIS knowledge and wisdom.

Again ,GL is correct
ALLAH subhanavatala corrected or changed few instructions .because surah muzammil
Surah 73 Aya 4
Or add to it, and recite the Qur'an with measured recitation

ALLAH subahnavatala instruct our prophet to read quran in the salah till then ,it implies, our prophet was reciting something else in his which i cannot assume (17.36)

yes there might be corrections as well .
The question is ,how those corrections and changes were made .if it was thru written instruction then those instruction will be there in quran ,(as instructed about safaa and marwa in hajj) further note that our prophet never had revelations in dreams as it happen in the case Ibrahim alaissalam ,so this changes and instruction must have been thought by Gibrial alaissalam .tell me where i am standing now

HP_TECH

There is a bit of misconception here, the rites that Ibrahim and Ismail asked the Lord to teach them was concerning the Hajj not salat.

You people are acting like the jews who asked 21 questions about slaughtering one simple cow.

Stand bow prostrate, does anyone need to be taught how to stand, bow and prostrate? Or is it something that needs to be passed down from generation to generation? They are simple and clear movements, yet you people like to complicate everything!

What color is she? What age is she? Just slaughter the cow already!

Come on! I seek refuge in Allah that I be among the ignorant ones!

parvez_mushtaq

There is a bit of misconception here, the rites that Ibrahim and Ismail asked the Lord to teach them was concerning the Hajj not salat.

Oh! this is a misconception than
ok ,let see few verses and decide what were these people doing
Verse 3.39

So the angels called him while he was standing in prayer in the chamber, "Indeed, Allah gives you good tidings of John, confirming a word from Allah and honorable, abstaining , and a prophet from among the righteous."

what did zakaria alassalam was doing in his chamber ....standing and just saying ALLAH...ALLAH....ALLAH....or he was praying like his forefather ,Ibrahim alasissalam

If ,rukhu and sujood were not the part of prayer , then why did ALLAH subhanvatala was commanding Mariam alasissalam to bow and make rukhu with those who are doing this action

Surah 3 Aya 43

O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow ."

Ok ,one more example for the procedure of prayer
Verse 4.102

And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, let a group of them stand with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have prostrated, let them be behind you and have the other group come forward which has not prayed and let them pray with you, taking precaution and carrying their arms. Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your baggage so they could come down upon you in one attack. But there is no blame upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms, but take precaution. Indeed, Allah has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

The classical example of two rakas

One more example

Verse 48.29

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating , seeking bounty from Allah and pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward.

does the above verse are referring to hajj or salah .Have a heart HP_T

You people are acting like the jews who asked 21 questions about slaughtering one simple cow.
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What color is she? What age is she? Just slaughter the cow already!

Yeah , i remember one more verse regarding Jews

Verse 2.83
And when We took the covenant from the Children of Israel, , "Do not worship except Allah; and to parents do good and to relatives, orphans, and the needy. And speak to people good and establish prayer and give zakah." Then you turned away, except a few of you, and you were refusing.

Verse 2.84
And when We took your covenant, , "Do not shed each other's blood or evict one another from your homes." Then you acknowledged while you were witnessing.

Verse 2.85
Then, you are those killing one another and evicting a party of your people from their homes, cooperating against them in sin and aggression. And if they come to you as captives, you ransom them, although their eviction was forbidden to you. So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the Day of Resurrection they will be sent back to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do.

HP_TECH

Oh! this is a misconception than
ok ,let see few verses and decide what were these people doing
Verse 3.39

So the angels called him while he was standing in prayer in the chamber, "Indeed, Allah gives you good tidings of John, confirming a word from Allah and honorable, abstaining , and a prophet from among the righteous."

what did zakaria alassalam was doing in his chamber ....standing and just saying ALLAH...ALLAH....ALLAH....or he was praying like his forefather ,Ibrahim alasissalam

If ,rukhu and sujood were not the part of prayer , then why did ALLAH subhanvatala was commanding Mariam alasissalam to bow and make rukhu with those who are doing this action

Surah 3 Aya 43

O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow ."

Ok ,one more example for the procedure of prayer
Verse 4.102

And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, let a group of them stand with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have prostrated, let them be behind you and have the other group come forward which has not prayed and let them pray with you, taking precaution and carrying their arms. Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your baggage so they could come down upon you in one attack. But there is no blame upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms, but take precaution. Indeed, Allah has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

The classical example of two rakas

One more example

Verse 48.29

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating , seeking bounty from Allah and pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward.

does the above verse are referring to hajj or salah .Have a heart HP_T
Yeah , i remember one more verse regarding Jews

Verse 2.83
And when We took the covenant from the Children of Israel, , "Do not worship except Allah; and to parents do good and to relatives, orphans, and the needy. And speak to people good and establish prayer and give zakah." Then you turned away, except a few of you, and you were refusing.

Verse 2.84
And when We took your covenant, , "Do not shed each other's blood or evict one another from your homes." Then you acknowledged while you were witnessing.

Verse 2.85
Then, you are those killing one another and evicting a party of your people from their homes, cooperating against them in sin and aggression. And if they come to you as captives, you ransom them, although their eviction was forbidden to you. So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the Day of Resurrection they will be sent back to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do.

I think you are arguing against the wrong person. I support all the movements indicated by Allah (standing, kneeling/bowing and prostrating) during salat and I perform my salat accordingly.

My argument is that these movements do not have a particular mandatory choreographic structure.
It is just as the instructions say simply stand bow and prostrate and it is up to the individuals to decide the particular details.
If one is alone he can vary according to his preference.
If some are in a group they can decide to stand throughout the entire Reading of the Quran and kneel and prostrate at the end of The Reading and in unison praise and glorify Allah AlHamdulillahi Rabilalameen All Praise to be to Allah Lord of the worlds

Essentially my argument is that salat is not something that needs to be passed down its common sense, Ibrahim was not the first to establish salat in the worlds.
That claim is ridiculous there were many prophets before him, you read about them in Quran.

Man_of_Faith

Is it ignorant to question the fact that no explicit instruction exists for that salat ritual in a book claiming to be in detail? And the references are scattered all across that scripture?

I find it enlightened to then question that since it is witted to noticed such a thing. It is not logical that the most advanced intelligence in existence would not comprehensively write out about an allegedly important ritual.

And it is not sufficient to argue that the salat ritual was in place before the advent of Quran because if this is supposed to be a rectifying scripture then it has to teach an ignorant community on how to exactly perform the alleged ritual. Otherwise it is not complete.

Now almost everyone seems to take for granted that the root definitely has to mean "contact prayer" while multiple definitions exist within ancient Classical Arabic lexicons. Ancient interpreters played around with interpretation acrobatics to fit a strange activity into the context.

Be well
Amenuel