Animal and souls
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And how about you Man Of Faith, the human, are you self aware?
Do you have any soul?I would personally say that. I know you are only striving to destabilize me though from some kind of thought-to-be witted sarcasm.
The other primates, for example, can learn and they may have human-like societal habits, and much of that is because the style of instincts is shared between primates (the Homo Sapiens body is a primate). They do equal, depending on how you see it (if considered your below quote), the instinctive living of a human with little to no spiritual development who will also behave according to their societal instincts and other motivations. It is just this kind of part an ascended PERSON is supposed to get away from to stop being like an animal and instead like their 'Foundation-Giver'.
All those people you later wrote about, they are victims of instincts which control them rather than logic and reason and the combination of animal and superior spirit makes them highly dangerous. We are at best when we separate ourselves from the primate's call. But your orangutan, gorilla, chimpanzee or whatever you mentioned, they are ONLY animals, they will not become a person. They may be the most advanced primates besides Homo Sapiens, but that is it, and that is not arrogance but pure logical reasoning. As long as Rabb has not planted a "seed" within something it is not going to develop beyond the Spatial Intelligence. That being said, if Rabb now planted a "seed" to change the direction, a orangutan could suddenly begin to develop on a spiritual level too at a fast rate, and then they would need to also master their bodily influence like Homo Sapiens and according to me it would not be any easier.
Again I find your writing above a bit uncalled for, unnecessarily rude. You can see on my reasoning and see the answer without even asking.
And so does human...
They can be easily indoctrinated to do anything (including suicide and massive killing of fellow species) for the reward of 72 virgins on their afterlife..
The ultimate reward for obedience to their leader / deity.
How can that be any different?You are not even reading and processing my posts so I will not give you any answer I already gave you. But I will tell you one thing, and that is the fact these humans are like primates and their spirit is undeveloped and they could be compared with these animals in discussion.
However those who become persons for real are different and advanced.
You still have to face it that animals are not advanced and they cannot be counted as PERSONS, they do not have that individuality, or could you be compared with a gorilla in terms of (abstract) intellect (soul depth) in your opinion? Maybe you two could have a barbecue, play some chess or perhaps you will be beaten by the gorilla at that? Come on, you cannot compare your Spirit potential with an animal? You can only compare an animal with a very bodily human, one that has succumbed to their own beast inside and these are tragic victims of themselves and their idolization of a divine phenomenon, which phenomenon is manifest in those 'Who Are' and cannot be found elsewhere. They themselves show God in them, if They truly Are (i.e. exist), i.e. Allehem . It has often been said that you find God from within yourself, and that is due to who you were made to be, in(side of) God's "image". You have more potential than an animal, come on. Those you mentioned in the quote is how it goes when you combine a superior Spirit in a primate body which has no control over its instincts when it can think abstractly, it only makes my argumentation stronger.
Even by giving you these replies I also made the answer evident from your first inquiry (of your quotes).
Please don't equate rats or orangutan to low animal named human..
I mean those low life human who manipulate others to do mass killing or perform mass killing themselves...
Equating those human scums to rats or orangutan is an insult to ratnity and orangutanity...I will still insist to do so, that poor Homo Sapiens body which has an evil spirit possession in it, i.e. that intruding spirit in it. The body is innocent and could be as any animal including that gorilla you love. At least the gorilla will follow their instincts to 100% and never invent a nuclear bomb as it does not think in that direction (as it has no individuality and is no person), even if the gorilla may kill another gorilla or other animal by instinct (just like a human might) it will not commit genocide.
But even then I pity those human seeds of the Father who succumbed to the deception of the world and messed up completely. They become as that body of theirs and the result is horrible given their versatile mind even within a very narrow scope.
Agree...
Observe the evidence.. use reason and make a clear judgement..Exactly. Analyze all sources of information and reflect upon if.
Be well
Amenuel -
HP_TECH,
You can disqualify that rendition by logic alone. You cannot offer something to which has no life whatsoever but is dead matter because it will not agree or disagree because it cannot offer a response. It speaks for itself that the translation "sucks", as they use to say. It is something you cling unto while you call yourself intellectual and educated, is that not embarrassing to you?
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HP_TECH,
You can disqualify that rendition by logic alone. You cannot offer something to which has no life whatsoever but is dead matter because it will not agree or disagree because it cannot offer a response. It speaks for itself that the translation "sucks", as they use to say. It is something you cling unto while you call yourself intellectual and educated, is that not embarrassing to you?
I have never called myself those things and I have no reason to feel embarrassed.
I see that you changed focus from the question to address translation issues.
Is it only you, who has the key to the correct translation?
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https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_language
They don't have an arbitrary language like we humans do.Correct, they don't really communicate through exchange of complex audio signals..
Yet that doesn't mean that they don't communicate at all or they don't have complex thought (like human do) within their mind..Human is a class of animal who are hasten to judge and arrogant.. always like to think himself as superior to others..
Every single word above this sentence is arbitrary, except for maybe "hi". Many animals do have a language system but as explained before with de saussure's "sign" theory, these languages do not result into what's necessary to develop (simple) philosophical ideas.
The Chantek experiment (link provided in my post above) is an interesting insight to the mind of Orangutan..
For many generation, human didn't developed any philosophical ideas either..
They're just too busy seeking out food to survive.. 80% of their awake time were spent on hunting and gathering..
The invention of agriculture changed that... finally human can allocate more time thinking about 'other than food'..And it's applicable to all animals.. the same thing happened to Chantek when he got all of the food fulfilled without any constant need of daily foraging..
Actually, this was something a professor of mine told me, I didn't believe it at first neither. However it is true.
https//www.newscientist.com/article/dn6303-language-may-shape-human-thought/Language shapes thought.
They don't have the concept of quantityIt happened vice versa.. language is the product of human thought.. and language influence / shape the human thought..
What will human do when there wasn't any word / expression yet to express his mind? He invented a new word or expression.. and that's how the language (thus also human mind) evolves...Animal prostitution is what it's called. https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_among_animals
Many animals have behavior similar to humans, we are social animals.Chimps are indeed human closest cousin..
The same with human, they also aggressive, do collective and coordinate hunting (yes they ate meat too), and often involved in a 'gang war' among themselves.. -
Alhamdulillah, i learn alot from this thread about animal.
Previously, i only know they can communicate or exchange complex ideas to sulaiman and to each other like what is said in Quran, but now i know they are more than that.
Just my curious thinking, is it true that the big difference between us and animal is the free-will?
What i mean by the free-will is the option to obey or to disobey the creator.Why this question is pretty important? Because i think only the ones who disobey the creator that will go to hell, so if animal has no free-will, then i think there is no chance they will go to hell at all. They can have an individual or so called collective soul, but as long as there is no chance for them to do anything wrong, they will be ok in the afterlife.
Please share your thoughts brothers and sisters.
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Alhamdulillah, i learn alot from this thread about animal.
Previously, i only know they can communicate or exchange complex ideas to sulaiman and to each other like what is said in Quran, but now i know they are more than that.
Just my curious thinking, is it true that the big difference between us and animal is the free-will?
What i mean by the free-will is the option to obey or to disobey the creator.Why this question is pretty important? Because i think only the ones who disobey the creator that will go to hell, so if animal has no free-will, then i think there is no chance they will go to hell at all. They can have an individual or so called collective soul, but as long as there is no chance for them to do anything wrong, they will be ok in the afterlife.
Please share your thoughts brothers and sisters.
Allah has judged in this matter for us
The OP is already a bit problematic with the question about souls. Allah has already stated it is of His Affair and we haven't been given much knowledge
638 And not any animal in the earth and not a bird (that) flies with its wings - but (are) communities like you. We have not neglected in the Book anything, then to their Lord they will be gathered.
639 And those who rejected Our Verses (are) deaf and dumb in the darkness. Whoever Allah wills - He and whoever He wills - He places him on (the) straight way.4229 And among His Signs (is the) creation (of) the heavens and the earth and whatever He has dispersed in both of them of (the) creatures. And He (is) over their gathering, when He wills, All-Powerful.
Every Creature will be gathered. The Gathering entails Accountability
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'Heh', not for us to judge? You can just see and judge for yourself of what you can observe.
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I asked in a different topic if animals have "individuality"/"soul" and the topic started to lose it's original hypothesis (does God dwell inside of us).
I made this topic so that the other one wouldn't get off-track.dear brother,
actually i dont know precisely what is the meaning of soul, but if you mean soul is individuality, then my answer is a Big Yes. animal has individuality because they are different to each other and it can differentiate itself to one another. furthermore, they are not as simple as that. my argument is based on these verses
Q 2718
Until they came to a valley of ants, a female ant said O ants, enter your homes else you will be crushed by Sulaiman and his
soldiers while they do not notice.this verse talks about an ant communication to other ants. this verse implies that an ant is aware that there is a danger situation towards the other ants. this verse also implies that this particular ant aware about the social condition of human i.e these particular human that are marching toward them are soldiers, not merchants, sculptures or antyhing, and those soldiers are led by someone named Sulaiman.
Q 2720 -28
2720 And he inspected the birds, then said Why do I not see the hoopoe, or is he among those absent?
2721 I will punish him severely, or I will kill him, else he should have a clear excuse.
2722 But the hoopoe did not stay away long, then he said I have seen what you do not know, and I have come to you from Sheba with news which is certain.
2723 I found them ruled by a woman, and she was given all possessions,and she had a great throne.
2724 And I found her and her people prostrating to the sun instead of God! And the devil had made their works appear good to them, so he kept them away from the path, for they are not being guided.
2725 Will they not prostrate to God who brings out what is hidden in the heavens and the earth, and He knows what you hide and what you declare?
2726 God, there is no god except He, the Lord of the supreme Throne.
2727 He said We will see if you are being truthful or are one of those who lie.
2728 Take this letter of mine and cast it to them, then withdraw from them and observe what they respond with.these verses are really beyond my wildest imagination (and Alhamdulillah God increase my understanding about animal from these verses). these verses imply that
- Sulaiman demands discipline from a bird and expect clear reasoning/excuses from a bird for its undisciplined action
- the Hoopoe knows that Sulaiman does not know anything about a human kingdom named Sheba before it reports it to Sulaiman
- the Hoopoe knows that there is a certainty degree in a news and he had make sure that the news it bring is certain
- the Hoopoe knows a human kingdom named Sheba, led by a human woman, she has lots of possession and a great throne
- the Hoopoe knows that human is prostrating to Sun and it knows that they should prostrate to ALLAH (idolatry concept)
- the Hoopoe understand the role of the Devil to make people believe that their bad work looks goods
- the Hoopoe understands God's power in heaven and earth and God's knowledge on human hearts.
- the Hoopoe understand that there is only one God and God has a supreme throne
- Sulaiman knows that there is a possibility that Hoopoe is lying instead of telling the truth
- Sulaiman knows that he can entrust a Hoopoe with a letter drooping and eavesdropping task
take a look at the list brother. all those points will surely look crazy in the eyes of non-quran believer. But what really amazed me is point 1, 3, 5 and 9. i wonder why those Quran attackers do not attack these verses ? or have they
what do you think brother ?
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Hmm.... so because there is a behavioral difference between animals you say they have souls (i.e. are persons = selves) and a unique consciousness. I wonder how you find that the most logical explanation.
Animal is an animal, and also Homo Sapiens is a lifeless (no soul/self) animal unless spiritually developed and undeveloped they are just a more advanced animal primate yet following primitive behavioral patterns just like animals dominated by the instinctive drive. I am not calling that anything to attribute life to but a lifeless automation. Quran calls it "no character" (al-mowt) referring to that it is not an individual. A cat is always a cat even if you give it a name and make a difference between that one and other cats.
It can have personality traits, i.e. different behavior usually affected by the animal's life experiences, but it is not enough to give it a unique self. Its prime drive will be determined by its instinct alone and flow of hormones in the body. A difference in the hormones will affect behavior. Even in humans it is different.
Certain hormones will cause exaggerated confidence, another will cause violent tendencies, another higher socialization drive and this is just not controlled by any spiritual being, no self. An animal cannot change voluntarily their behavior compared to a strong-willed human.
Instinctive impulses can be hard to resist, but it is possible and one can change themselves so they are not like a mindless animal. Those often make it difficult to reason logically without the influence of emotions and superstition. Break the sterotypical patterns and find out how very predictable you are underneath your belief that you are a unique person. Then you might understand the phenomenon of lifelessness and how you are a slave to your own body and its desires. Desires that are vain and you could live without and which are only to release various hormones so you get a physical stimulus but do not logically lead to anything efficiently productive. And productive is not hoarding meaningless wealth
Be well
Amenuel -
Hmm.... so because there is a behavioral difference between animals you say they have souls (i.e. are persons = selves) and a unique consciousness. I wonder how you find that the most logical explanation.
Animal is an animal, and also Homo Sapiens is a lifeless (no soul/self) animal unless spiritually developed and undeveloped they are just a more advanced animal primate yet following primitive behavioral patterns just like animals dominated by the instinctive drive. I am not calling that anything to attribute life to but a lifeless automation. Quran calls it "no character" (al-mowt) referring to that it is not an individual. A cat is always a cat even if you give it a name and make a difference between that one and other cats.
It can have personality traits, i.e. different behavior usually affected by the animal's life experiences, but it is not enough to give it a unique self. Its prime drive will be determined by its instinct alone and flow of hormones in the body. A difference in the hormones will affect behavior. Even in humans it is different.
Certain hormones will cause exaggerated confidence, another will cause violent tendencies, another higher socialization drive and this is just not controlled by any spiritual being, no self. An animal cannot change voluntarily their behavior compared to a strong-willed human.
Instinctive impulses can be hard to resist, but it is possible and one can change themselves so they are not like a mindless animal. Those often make it difficult to reason logically without the influence of emotions and superstition. Break the sterotypical patterns and find out how very predictable you are underneath your belief that you are a unique person. Then you might understand the phenomenon of lifelessness and how you are a slave to your own body and its desires. Desires that are vain and you could live without and which are only to release various hormones so you get a physical stimulus but do not logically lead to anything efficiently productive. And productive is not hoarding meaningless wealth
Be well
Amenuelhave you read my post above?
quran implies that that particular ant can differentiate itself from the other ants. doesn't it require uniqueness at least among the ants?
quran implies that Sulaiman wants to discipline or even kill a hoopoe for its nondisciplinary action if it didnot give clear reason, do you think Sulaiman will kill all the hoopoe int the world? or just that particular Hoopoe? again, doesn't it require uniqueness? at least among the Hoopoes?can you see that animals on that verses are not just acting with primitive instinc? they can reason, they can understand human social condition, they understand about God, Iblis and idolatry, they can have responsibility and also they can lie.
our current understanding about animal and technology about animal communication is very limited due to our ignorance to these verses. not because they are simple and fully dependent on their instinct.
May ALLAH increase our understanding and iman
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Not to throw salt or always seem to be attacking Amenuel, but look at his argument. There is not a single statement developed from true Quranic knowledge
Animal is an animal,
An animal is an animal is an animal ok we know that. But that does not mean an animal does not have self-awareness, individuality and volition.
and also Homo Sapiens is a lifeless (no soul/self) animal unless spiritually developed and undeveloped they are just a more advanced animal primate yet following primitive behavioral patterns just like animals dominated by the instinctive drive.
Where in the Quran does it say that a human is an animal unless spiritually developed? It is true that those who do not hear or listen are akin to cattle, and if do not repent and reform potentially face Hell, but this does not imply that animals (like cattle) are spiritually undeveloped
I am not calling that anything to attribute life to but a lifeless automation. Quran calls it "no character" (al-mowt) referring to that it is not an individual.
That is not how al-mawt is used in Quran
Miim-Waw-Ta = To die, to pass away from the earthly life, to be destitute or deprived of life, deprived of sensation, deprived of the intellectual faculty, to be still/quiet/motionless, to be calm/still, to sleep, lifeless, to be assuaged, dried up by the earth, to cease, wear out/be worn out, to be poor/reduced to poverty, abject/base/despicable/vile, disobedient or rebellious, lowly/humble/submissive, to be soft/loose/flabby/relaxed, lack spirit or life.
Furthermore there is no example to the best of my knowledge which uses this word in reference to animal's lack of "soul", "life", or individuality.
A cat is always a cat even if you give it a name and make a difference between that one and other cats.
This does not provide any insight into your claim about animals being lifeless. It is a reiteration of a cat is a cat is a cat.
(Fan of Gertrude Stein?)It can have personality traits, i.e. different behavior usually affected by the animal's life experiences, but it is not enough to give it a unique self.
More guessing, speculation and conjecture.
How do you determine this? Where in the Quran or Torah do you see such indication?Its prime drive will be determined by its instinct alone and flow of hormones in the body. A difference in the hormones will affect behavior. Even in humans it is different.
What do hormonal physiological states have to do with individuality or accountability? This is not something that can be addressed or explained by chemical processes or solely in a biologic aspect.
It is more of a philosophical question and we ( those who follow Quran) derive our philosophical responses from the Quran
Certain hormones will cause exaggerated confidence, another will cause violent tendencies, another higher socialization drive and this is just not controlled by any spiritual being, no self.
Where is your proof for the notion that these behaviors are not controlled by the "self"? Do you have any ayaats from the Quran or research studies to provide as evidence?
An animal cannot change voluntarily their behavior compared to a strong-willed human.
Again, where do you get this information? That statement is neither scientific nor logical.
Where is your scientific research supported evidence for that?
Where is your evidence for this notion in Quran?Instinctive impulses can be hard to resist, but it is possible and one can change themselves so they are not like a mindless animal. Those often make it difficult to reason logically without the influence of emotions and superstition. Break the sterotypical patterns and find out how very predictable you are underneath your belief that you are a unique person. Then you might understand the phenomenon of lifelessness and how you are a slave to your own body and its desires. Desires that are vain and you could live without and which are only to release various hormones so you get a physical stimulus but do not logically lead to anything efficiently productive. And productive is not hoarding meaningless wealth
I generally agree with this, but just because someone is more governed by his desires does not translate that animals who appear to be acting based on instinct and primal desires are not individuals
Hmm.... so because there is a behavioral difference between animals you say they have souls (i.e. are persons = selves) and a unique consciousness. I wonder how you find that the most logical explanation.
WATCH THIS PLEASE
https//youtu.be/jlR3UVU_nHQ
It is more than mere behavioral differences...
What instinct does a dog have that drive it to risk its own life to save an estranged dog in need, when most dogs bark at each other or ignore each other?
V. O. L. I. T. I. O. N.
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Hmm.... so because there is a behavioral difference between animals you say they have souls (i.e. are persons = selves) and a unique consciousness. I wonder how you find that the most logical explanation.
Animal is an animal, and also Homo Sapiens is a lifeless (no soul/self) animal unless spiritually developed and undeveloped they are just a more advanced animal primate yet following primitive behavioral patterns just like animals dominated by the instinctive drive. I am not calling that anything to attribute life to but a lifeless automation. Quran calls it "no character" (al-mowt) referring to that it is not an individual. A cat is always a cat even if you give it a name and make a difference between that one and other cats.
It can have personality traits, i.e. different behavior usually affected by the animal's life experiences, but it is not enough to give it a unique self. Its prime drive will be determined by its instinct alone and flow of hormones in the body. A difference in the hormones will affect behavior. Even in humans it is different.
Certain hormones will cause exaggerated confidence, another will cause violent tendencies, another higher socialization drive and this is just not controlled by any spiritual being, no self. An animal cannot change voluntarily their behavior compared to a strong-willed human.
Instinctive impulses can be hard to resist, but it is possible and one can change themselves so they are not like a mindless animal. Those often make it difficult to reason logically without the influence of emotions and superstition. Break the sterotypical patterns and find out how very predictable you are underneath your belief that you are a unique person. Then you might understand the phenomenon of lifelessness and how you are a slave to your own body and its desires. Desires that are vain and you could live without and which are only to release various hormones so you get a physical stimulus but do not logically lead to anything efficiently productive. And productive is not hoarding meaningless wealth
Be well
AmenuelHi,
What strikes me in your recent posts is that you speak with such confidence about some things of which I think are impossible to know.
Do you know the unknown? If so, then I have a lot of questions to ask. -
He has actually claimed that he has communication. I am not ridiculing, just citing. So indeed, go ahead and question him and specifically if you will. I too would like clear explanations.
"God" does provide proof to (certain) people today. "God" has made "Himself" manifested to me myself. The problem is that many if not all would consider it lunacy to argue that.
But the reason for that was because my faith in "God" was unshakeable even before the manifestation and I had declared that "I know you ("God" exist even if you do not show yourself". I had like many others wished for a sign of course and it took me some years to get even a sign. The funny part is once it happened then "Hell broke loose" and I got it all at once including real communication and I can understand people see it as unbelievable who have not experienced it. The point is that when you quit looking for "God" and try to find your self instead then suddenly "God" is there as "God" is to be found in yourself.
I began to question the sanity of Quran to begin with and that unraveled a whole lot of things actually. Right now I have discovered a different model of spiritually actually, which does also make more sense.
One of the most interesting answers was the one I got when I asked; "What is Gehennom?", to which "God" replied "testing ground". It is exactly the purpose of it. People are not aware what they experience right now is that.
And why "God" leaves things to you is because you are supposed to be able to function independently with "God's" Spirit. The integration comes when you are deemed worthy and you will sense more of the (real) power of the world and the void ("Heaven". That is when "God" no longer sees your realization as weak and you do not doubt, you begin to develop as intended. And through growth comes reward, such as no longer merely believing "God" to exist but even reside in "God" and share traits such as absoluteness. The more you progress the more inspiration comes streaming from the void ("Heaven" and perhaps you even turn into an insightful one (nabi = "prophet".
Wellness to you
Amenuel -
HP_TECH,
Where is your proof for the notion that these behaviors are not controlled by the "self"? Do you have any ayaats from the Quran or research studies to provide as evidence?
It passes by the self due to the instinct and this is also a lifeless fate and when you are a slave to your own body with its instinctive drive.
That is not how al-mawt is used in Quran
Mowt (ت is a grammatical form including (not) and (symbol of characteristic). It generally means lifeless in a plausible translation into English and morphologically "no character". Of course it can mean dead too since a dead person does not have a lifesign and then in Arabic you say lifeless basically. It can also imply that a person is dead in Spirit like being too vague in existence to be considered alive.
Where in the Quran does it say that a human is an animal unless spiritually developed? It is true that those who do not hear or listen are akin to cattle, and if do not repent and reform potentially face Hell, but this does not imply that animals (like cattle) are spiritually undeveloped
Quran calls the human, or more specifically the accompanying body, a primate in the second chapter (the chapter traditionally labeled al-baqara). Sectarian translations are too weak to bring that forth however, need someone who can decipher it properly.
You once again speak against logic. If a person's mind is like cattle then how can they possibly repent if their minds are that shallow and empty?
Not to throw salt or always seem to be attacking Amenuel, but look at his argument. There is not a single statement developed from true Quranic knowledge
What statement is likely to be based on "true" Quranic knowledge, one that is coherent, reasonable and brings answers or one that is full of contradiction?
An animal is an animal is an animal ok we know that. But that does not mean an animal does not have self-awareness, individuality and volition.
If a human, lifeless in Spirit, is not self-aware, how can you expect an animal to be that which is driven by instinct alone and only exists in this world?
It can never be a person. It was never intended to be and a candidate of ours was never intended to be a Homo Sapiens but were placed in the body which was to work as a contradiction and to be a test.
This does not provide any insight into your claim about animals being lifeless. It is a reiteration of a cat is a cat is a cat.
(Fan of Gertrude Stein?)It was my personal compilation, it happened to resemble what you referred to coincidentally.
The point is that you can be more than only a primate while the cat is always a cat. It cannot be a person.
More guessing, speculation and conjecture.
How do you determine this? Where in the Quran or Torah do you see such indication?Conjecture is when you are not right. This is.
Ask another primate who it is and see what kind of answer you will receive. It will not even sufficiently comprehend your question.
What do hormonal physiological states have to do with individuality or accountability? This is not something that can be addressed or explained by chemical processes or solely in a biologic aspect.
It is more of a philosophical question and we ( those who follow Quran) derive our philosophical responses from the Quran
It is empirical science, not philosophy.
Animals including human bodies are created with gene variations causing them to possess behavioral differences due to the secretion of hormones from the glands is not identical in each specimen. That is an environmental cause and effect and belongs to the world's business rather than on spiritual level.
Again, where do you get this information? That statement is neither scientific nor logical.
Where is your scientific research supported evidence for that?
Where is your evidence for this notion in Quran?Scientific or not depends on the level of knowledge of human science.
It is logical however. A human can potentially control instinctive behavior while an animal will live its life for the sake of its drive.
What was so hard to understand?
WATCH THIS PLEASE
https//youtu.be/jlR3UVU_nHQ
It is more than mere behavioral differences...
What instinct does a dog have that drive it to risk its own life to save an estranged dog in need, when most dogs bark at each other or ignore each other?
There can be several good explanations to your case and they all have to do with the instincts. The dog can be a trained dog to save others and awaits reward (gives release of reward hormones). The dog sees the other dog as of its own kin due to often heavy exposure to random foreign dogs. In all explanations the action is ignited by the dogs instinctive drive. That does not make the dog a person, nor does it make a lifeless human a person even if they happen to save another human.
The dog may have begun to imitate human behavior. When the dog respectfully sees its human master as its leader of the pack it will obey unquestionably and learn an attitude influenced by the master. A dog is exalted in pleasure by that belonging when the master causes it to have a good life and the human body possesses similar blind affiliation affection, a human will also imitate others they have a passion for unless they master themselves and are themselves when they can be more unaffected and unbiased due to their surroundings. A dog cannot choose that, it will slavishly become attached through taming and will be obedient even to a plain idiot. And if you cannot understand that parable I pity you, i.e. it cannot see right from wrong because its living is determined by its instinct alone. And in what I wrote you can compare with a lifeless human. How many did not obey Hitler? Either in amazement or in fear, the dog works the same.
In all there is also a logical explanation bound to the nature of each species.
Be well
Amenuel -
Bender,
Hi,
What strikes me in your recent posts is that you speak with such confidence about some things of which I think are impossible to know.
Do you know the unknown? If so, then I have a lot of questions to ask.Do you not speak with confidence if you know about something?
What I wrote is not at all impossible to know, it just takes some insight and investigation and often logical contemplation.
That Rabb gave confirmation and approval was a bonus. The whole teaching of mine of which you consider false has been clarified in Quran, the real interpretation of the Arabic tongue. That I had begun to unravel even before I was contacted by Rabb the first time and whose approval was a great relief (as I had an inner fear of being wrong even despite the thorough research I had already started). Rabb told me that I should not worry, "they will come".
I also learned that in order to understand Quran you have to approach it like a blind man, i.e. you do not have any preconception of what it looks like but you feel yourself forward to experience it yourself. I hope you understand the parable in that.
Be well
Amenuel -
Not to throw salt or always seem to be attacking Amenuel, but look at his argument. There is not a single statement developed from true Quranic knowledge
An animal is an animal is an animal ok we know that. But that does not mean an animal does not have self-awareness, individuality and volition.Where in the Quran does it say that a human is an animal unless spiritually developed? It is true that those who do not hear or listen are akin to cattle, and if do not repent and reform potentially face Hell, but this does not imply that animals (like cattle) are spiritually undeveloped
That is not how al-mawt is used in QuranMiim-Waw-Ta = To die, to pass away from the earthly life, to be destitute or deprived of life, deprived of sensation, deprived of the intellectual faculty, to be still/quiet/motionless, to be calm/still, to sleep, lifeless, to be assuaged, dried up by the earth, to cease, wear out/be worn out, to be poor/reduced to poverty, abject/base/despicable/vile, disobedient or rebellious, lowly/humble/submissive, to be soft/loose/flabby/relaxed, lack spirit or life.
Furthermore there is no example to the best of my knowledge which uses this word in reference to animal's lack of "soul", "life", or individuality.
This does not provide any insight into your claim about animals being lifeless. It is a reiteration of a cat is a cat is a cat.
(Fan of Gertrude Stein?)
More guessing, speculation and conjecture.
How do you determine this? Where in the Quran or Torah do you see such indication?
What do hormonal physiological states have to do with individuality or accountability? This is not something that can be addressed or explained by chemical processes or solely in a biologic aspect.It is more of a philosophical question and we ( those who follow Quran) derive our philosophical responses from the Quran
Where is your proof for the notion that these behaviors are not controlled by the "self"? Do you have any ayaats from the Quran or research studies to provide as evidence?Again, where do you get this information? That statement is neither scientific nor logical.
Where is your scientific research supported evidence for that?
Where is your evidence for this notion in Quran?
I generally agree with this, but just because someone is more governed by his desires does not translate that animals who appear to be acting based on instinct and primal desires are not individualsWATCH THIS PLEASE
https//youtu.be/jlR3UVU_nHQ
It is more than mere behavioral differences...
What instinct does a dog have that drive it to risk its own life to save an estranged dog in need, when most dogs bark at each other or ignore each other?
V. O. L. I. T. I. O. N.
Subhanallah, thank you for sharing the video brother. I filled my eyes with tears watching that video. I dont think that the dog owner, if there is any, have ever taught that dog to help another dog lying helplessly in the street. Who have ever taught their dog that way? It must come from the dog itself or directly from God.
Thank you again for sharing that eye opening video.