Inheritance according to Qur?an
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Peace Recluse.
May be according to your understanding ,you may say this
The Qur'an is most definitely treating females like objects of men... they are to always "obey" their husbands, they can even be beaten, they get less inheritance than men, they are not equal witnesses in court and so on and so forth. Come on Huruf, be honest with yourself. I'm sure God loves honesty, don't you think
According to my understanding, it is you who is not honest with GOD s words. Qoran never implies what you say. GOD is fair and just.
Those who take words /verses out of context are telling lies about GOD, and you are not checking properly.
Be fair to Qoran and study it with honesty and sincerity . Do not take what others say about it as truth!!!GOD bless you.
Peace.Peace good logic,
The Qur'an definitely says all those things I mentioned, all the 'ulema' and 'fukaha' throughout the entire history of Islam have agreed - including the prophet's closest companions!! They were the receivers of those messages, not you or anyone else here on free-minds.org... So you think the prophet, his closest companions and all the "ulema" and "fukaha"and all the schools of thought knew absolutely nothing and were just making things up for 1400 years until recently? Or were they all liars, every single 'alim' in the entire history of Islam was an impostor?
Only recently have some "modernists" come into the picture trying to make the Qur'an more "palatable" for people in the 21st century. With good intentions obviously, but flawed logic... it's extremely hard for people to accept the "horrible truth" that the Qur'an was directly addressing the Arabs in Arabia 1400 years ago and their own unique problems... that's why it's impossible to take the Qur'an literally or treat it as a book of law for eternity...
Peace.
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Man o Faith
I don't have ay questionwith what you yourself say and you say it, but that was not he matter of may post ad you are igoring my pos. Say whateve ryou want I have n quarrel with it, but you said that The Qur'an favours males over females, I do not care what you favour but if you say that the Qur'an favors males over females that is what I question and I say that you are worng and yu have not deied that you have said that.
That is the question, so not about what you say I have spoken but about what you say the qur'an says, which is false.
Salaam
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The Qur'an most definitely says all those things I mentioned, all the "ulema" throughout the entire history of Islam have agreed - including the prophet's closest companions !! They were the receivers of those messages, not you or anyone else on free-minds.org. Only recently have some "modernists" come into the picture trying to make the Qur'an more "palatable" for people in the 21st century. With very good intentions of course, but flawed logic... it's extremely hard for most people to accept the "horrible truth" that the Qur'an was addressing the Arabs in Arabia 1400 years ago...
Peace.
Eitheryou lie formidably or you are foridaly ignorant. I suppose it is the second and that your imagination takes you to the sar. You mut know all the ulemas as well as you know first hand the hundreds of illions of muslims for whom you vouched in other messages.
Salaam
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Peace Recluse.
The flawed logic is to blame Qoran.
No matter, leave it alone and move on., if it is so bad.
Why waste your time being angry and bitter about what others do with it?Personally I think you confuse "true Islam" with "Traditional Islam",but that is my opinion.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Bingo
And the simple reason for that is because the Qur'an is mostly addressing the Arabs of 1400 years ago, it's not addressing any of us here. None of those Qur'anic "laws" have any relation to our own reality in the here and now, but this is extremely hard to accept for those who worship the book and equate that book with God (or God's might) Himself. They think the Qur'an is on the same level as God's knowledge when it's just a book confined by time and space, a certain culture (Arab), history and socio-economic situation. To fundamentalists accepting this simple reality would be equal to disbelief in God Himself (because God = Qur'an = Perfect) and enough to deserve eternal Hellfire. I used to think like that too, but when I learned about alternative views (initially by some Turkish Islamic scholars), I understood that I had been duped and indoctrinated from childhood.
As the Qur'an says;
"Those who listen to all that is said, and follow the best of it it is they whom God has graced with His guidance, and it is they who are endowed with insight"
Peace,
?zcanHi,
RED Why are you quoting 3918? It has nothing to do with you or me, it's for Arabs of 1400 years ago.
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Hi,
RED Why are you quoting 3918? It has nothing to do with you or me, it's for Arabs of 1400 years ago.
Hi,
Because regardless of who said it (God Himself or a person), my conscience tells me that it is true.. )
This verse can and in my opinion should be universally applied... but if you were to apply the verses about male or female slaves, you would commit grave injustice.. or the verse that says wives must obey their husbands... those must be categorically rejected. And by rejecting those, we are not rejecting God... The Qur'an is not equal to God or to God's knowledge.
There are many other verses in the Qur'an that I like to quote and take lessons from.
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Peace Recluse.
The flawed logic is to blame Qoran.
No matter, leave it alone and move on., if it is so bad.
Why waste your time being angry and bitter about what others do with it?Personally I think you confuse "true Islam" with "Traditional Islam",but that is my opinion.
GOD bless you.
Peace.I'm not bitter or angry, I only get irritated sometimes when someone attacks my character instead of dealing with the topic being discussed. It really doesn't matter at all if nobody agreed with me on anything..
Peace and God bless you too..
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Hi,
Because regardless of who said it (God Himself or a person), my conscience tells me that it is true..
This verse can and in my opinion should be universally applied... but if you were to apply the verses about male or female slaves,you would commit grave injustice.. or the verse that says wives must obey their husbands... those must be categorically rejected. And by rejecting those, we are not rejecting God... The Qur'an is not equal to God or to God's knowledge.
There are many other verses in the Qur'an that I like to quote and take lessons from.
RED If we apply YOUR understanding of those verses then for sure we have to reject them.
just curious, what is the word for "slave" in the quran? -
Peace Recluse.
Please take my posts as general comments.
No other intention except to give my view amicably.Thank you and GOD bless you
Peace. -
RED If we apply YOUR understanding of those verses then for sure we have to reject them.
just curious, what is the word for "slave" in the quran?Peace Bender,
There are verses about being able to have sexual relations with "those whom our right hands possess".
History shows this was common practice 1400 years ago when the Qur'an was revealed...
Or do you think the Qur'an was revealed to the people of Norway in 2016?
But there are no "slaves" in Norway. The Norwegians must be thinking; why is the Qur'an talking about slaves? What slaves, where ? And "Those whom your right hand possess", what on earth is that rotfl
Anyway, why should I apply your understanding and not the established and historical understanding of the "entire ummah" for 1400 years ?
Were ALL Islamic thinkers, Islamic scholars, Arabic language specialists, ulema, fukaha, madhabs / schools of thought and others throughout history complete morons ??? You know better than ALL of them? Or were ALL OF THEM devious/evil people who were enemies of the Qur'an?
I know your CONSCIENCE is telling you that what the Qur'an says is immoral so it MUST be saying something else... that's good because unlike most Sunnis and Shias you have a conscience. You are not inhumane. But is it honesty to always change the meanings of the Qur'an as you please? To subject the Qur'an to endless interpretations? I thought the Qur'an was easy to understand? Who has the authority to decide the "real" meanings? And if there is no consensus, how can we follow any of it? brickwall
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Huruf,
What about the passage that noon wa alqalami constantly floods the thread with then? This is the sectarian interpretation of Quran and I do not argue that the real interpretation of Quran argues that.
You are hostile towards me for no real reason.
You have not even understood my stance since you claim I argue that Quran favors men over women which is wrong by you. Chill out a bit and like me a bit more instead. You have no right to dislike me since I have not hurt you. Relax.
Quran does NOT favor men over women, only a flawed sectarian interpreted one does. Please keep apart when I say "in the sectarian interpretation" because that marks the most commonly accepted understanding which is not correct. I thought it is clear that I do not argue such thing about Quran and I cannot remember that I ever argued that Quran says for real that it favors men over women but I always wrote "sectarian interpretation".
Be well
Amenuel -
Apart from you and me, huruf, the majority of those who call themselves Muslim actually find authority in that sectarian interpretation where men are over women and inheritance is like noonwaalqalami prints out and obviously my mission is to unbalance that unquestionable faith they have in that interpretation and not leave Quran altogether. From time to time I also come with reports on the progress of my research by delving into the rightful interpretation of Quran too.
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Have you read atetively Noon's posts,because he has changed his views sevral times nd I don't think he has closed the question, and that is why there is his thread pinned in order to contribute to it, so I do not think he is attached to any male favouring, except whatever is left always in anybody from too long ingrained absorbed "inital facts".
Myself I amnot sure that I understand always the way he sets his ideas in printing.But what noon says is neither here nor there because that is not the question concerning what you wrote. You yourslf wrote a if you thought the female hostile interppretation of usual juriprudence was right in its interpretation of the Qur'a. So the question is whether you say that the Qur'an favour males over females regarding inheritance.
Salaam
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I am not really blaming him, it was an example right here, but he still makes a difference between male and female with his belief in the interpretation even if he has been working on some sort of more deep-down analysis which unfortunately still stays within similar proportions as the standard version.
When comparing what it allegedly says with logic it seems not to add up unless women truly are worth less which they obviously are not. That is something to keep in mind.
I am not expecting anything but flawless logic when I am reading something inspired by Rabb. I cannot call the sectarian interpretation of Quran as flawless logic. Would it not be that I found it is a lousy interpretation I would have abandoned it for sure. Something must be sound both now and millennia ago.
Be well
Amenuel -
Huruf,
From how I read what you wrote it seems you keep seriously misinterpreting the English I write, i.e from the replies I get, because the replied understanding is misrepresented as something I have never written.
So the question is whether you say that the Qur'an favour males over females regarding inheritance.
The answer, answered more than once already, is NO. Not my interpretation of it anyways, albeit if I read any traditional translation including Monotheist translation it is impossible to understand something other than that men are above women.
Be well
Amenuel -
This is the sectarian interpretation of Quran and I do not argue that the real interpretation of Quran argues that.
Who gets to decide what is the ultimate and only correct and acceptable interpretation? According to which and whose criteria?
Does the historical and cultural context and reality of the people who directly received those 'revelations' have any meaning or relevance when interpreting the Qur'an?
Quran does NOT favor men over women, only a flawed sectarian interpreted one does.
Then why must women obey their husbands? This is merely one out of countless examples to disprove the claim that the Qur'an does not favour men. It obviously does in its literal meanings.
PS I'm not hostile to you, you seem to be a very nice dude
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Peace Bender,
There are verses about being able to have sexual relations with "those whom our right hands possess".
Peace Recluse,
I don't know about you but I have only 1 right hand and it possess 5 fingers.
History shows this was common practice 1400 years ago when the Qur'an was revealed...
No, this shows that your understanding is flawed.
Or do you think the Qur'an was revealed to the people of Norway in 2016?
Yes, i believe it is revealed to people of Norway of 2016 and people of Chili in 3234
But there are no "slaves" in Norway. The Norwegians must be thinking; why is the Qur'an talking about slaves? What slaves, where ? And "Those whom your right hand possess", what on earth is that rotfl
There are people here on this forum who are from Scandinavian countries who do not think that, because they are smart enough to not let themselves get indoctrinated by the interpretation of sexual obsessed people.
Anyway, why should I apply your understanding and not the established and historical understanding of the "entire ummah" for 1400 years ?
Were ALL Islamic thinkers, Islamic scholars, Arabic language specialists, ulema, fukaha, madhabs / schools of thought and others throughout history complete morons ??? You know better than ALL of them? Or were ALL OF THEM devious/evil people who were enemies of the Qur'an?Because I believe my understanding and the understanding of a lot of people here is much better than the established and historical understanding of the "entire ummah".
So because you said that verse 3918 should be universally applied...
3918 "Those who listen to all that is said, and follow the best of it it is they whom God has graced with His guidance, and it is they who are endowed with insight" (your translation)
It means thus that you are not on the right track, as you insist to choose over and over again the inferior understanding over what is better.I know your CONSCIENCE is telling you that what the Qur'an says is immoral so it MUST be saying something else... that's good because unlike most Sunnis and Shias you have a conscience. You are not inhumane. But is it honesty to always change the meanings of the Qur'an as you please?
RED Not change it to what pleases me, that is what sexual obsessed people do and other evil people.
But change it to what I think is best. If someone comes with a better understanding than mine then I would be a fool not to accept his/her understanding over mine.To subject the Qur'an to endless interpretations? I thought the Qur'an was easy to understand? Who has the authority to decide the "real" meanings? And if there is no consensus, how can we follow any of it? brickwall
3918 is as you said universal, so apply that, strive for what is better in everything, including how to understand the quran.
Salaam,
Bender -
Peace Recluse,
I don't know about you but I have only 1 right hand and it possess 5 fingers.
No, this shows that your understanding is flawed.
Yes, i believe it is revealed to people of Norway of 2016 and people of Chili in 3234
There are people here on this forum who are from Scandinavian countries who do not think that, because they are smart enough to not let themselves get indoctrinated by the interpretation of sexual obsessed people.Because I believe my understanding and the understanding of a lot of people here is much better than the established and historical understanding of the "entire ummah".
So because you said that verse 3918 should be universally applied...
3918 "Those who listen to all that is said, and follow the best of it it is they whom God has graced with His guidance, and it is they who are endowed with insight" (your translation)
It means thus that you are not on the right track, as you insist to choose over and over again the inferior understanding over what is better.
RED Not change it to what pleases me, that is what sexual obsessed people do and other evil people.
But change it to what I think is best. If someone comes with a better understanding than mine then I would be a fool not to accept his/her understanding over mine.
3918 is as you said universal, so apply that, strive for what is better in everything, including how to understand the quran.Salaam,
Benderbravo bravo bravo
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@ Bender )
Your are too emotional and display very strong signs of blind faith.
Your reaction shows that you are horrified even by the very thought that you could be wrong.
It scares the living daylights outta you. You most probably think that you would or could become a kafir, if you thought too much....
... Destined for eternal hellfire by the Merciful God... )
Anyway, I must respectfully disagree; my understanding of the Qur'an is absolutely not less than people here, trust me..
I've been reading the Qur'an for many years, the Qur'an is nothing new to me...I could give you so many verses proving without a doubt that the Qur'an is not universal...
But you (like most people here who adhere to certain dogmas) would twist all their meanings, albeit with good intention, and thus, the discussion would lead nowhere..
So let's simply agree to disagree..
Peace )