Who was the first Muslim?

Recluse

Peace Recluse.
Yes I agree with Qoran.

Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts ( Any religion...); anyone who (1) believes in God, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

i.e they are all "Muslims".

"Islam is a spiritual state of mind and not a title of a religion that belongs to a specific group of people. ANYONE who submits and serves the one God without idolizing other entities is a "Muslim".

Peace good logic,

In that case, I totally disagree with the Qur'an.....

So the "merciful" God will burn billions of Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Shintoists and others in an eternal Hell? I completely reject the idea of such a psychopathic, immoral, unjust, narcissistic, angry, insane and evil God. The Qur'an, if it really says and means exactly this, is most definitely a man-made book, and the God of the Qur'an can not be the true Creator of the universe. My own God-given conscience tells me this can not be the case.

I believe deism is the future for mankind...

Peace

Armanaziz

Have you ever visited Nepal, Recluse ?

Last year I had the fortune. On my first day at Pokhara, early at dawn our travel guide drove us to Sangarkot viewing site. I was wondering what the big deal was. I learned it soon enough. As the tip of the somber Annapurna range suddenly took a glorious golden hue at the moment of day-break, it was a spectacle to behold! Hardly have I ever seen such a marvel of nature with my own eyes. To experience this marvel one has to keep his eyes open for the exact moment of sunrise.

http//bengivenni.smugmug.com/WhatsThis/Aloka-Lekhana/fish-tail-peak/916306489_gTahK-L.jpg
(Photo credit https//alokalekhana.wordpress.com/2010/06/29/annapurna-peak-at-sunrise/)

Have you seen the marvel of the first day-break, Recluse?

By the ?first? day break I do not mean the first ever day-break in the history of the earth. The ?first day-break? happens every time the daylight outstretches the darkness of night. And every time it is a marvel.

Don?t get too weary of the night my friend, for the night gets darkest right before the dawn.

May Allah guide us to the straight way.

Regards,
Arman

Man_of_Faith

It is who you are that will determine your destiny.

Recluse

@ Wakas

I clicked and read your first link which clearly implies that all "polytheists" will go to Hell.

I already know those arguments that "monotheists" are special people

Why do I have to repeat myself?

What if you were born in Thailand as a "polytheist", would you have gone to an eternal Hell in that case?

Peace

@Arman

Ignoring the issue (self-delusion) doesn't work for me..

Peace

Recluse

The fact is that there are no verses in the Quran which states that those who follow other religions/faiths/beliefs will go to hell.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608067.msg380257#msg380257

LOL

The crux of the matter is that only "monotheists" will go to Paradise according to the Qur'an, which means that billions of Buddhists, Hindus and others are condemned to Hellfire. Why do I have to repeat myself?

Peace

Wakas

What if you were born in Thailand as a "polytheist", would you have gone to an eternal Hell in that case?

No-one is born a "polytheist".

Re eternal hell
Research http//quranix.org/appendix/qrt/8

Bender

Peace,

Of course, I could also give you numerous verses about numerous issues that are inconsistent and incompatible.

Hi,

Of course you can, but I will save you some time.
Here is a site with thousands of contradictions of the quran including your fundamental contradiction in your OP.
Click and Click

mmkhan

Hi,

Of course you can, but I will save you some time.
Here is a site with thousands of contradictions of the quran including your fundamental contradiction in your OP.
Click and Click

Peace,

Hahaaa... funny links. Thanks!

Recluse

No-one is born a "polytheist".

Re eternal hell
Research http//quranix.org/appendix/qrt/8

People are definitely born into an existing culture and religion. It's sad that I have to explain this again; why are most people in Korea, Japan or China not "monotheists"? Answer; Because they were born into another culture/religion, that's the only reason....

Why are "Saudis / Arabs" Muslim? If those same Arab "Muslims" had been born in Thailand, they too would have gone to an eternal Hell as polytheists. Now, of course I don't believe that (maybe you don't really believe it either), but that is what the Qur'an seems to imply.

Recluse

Hi,

Of course you can, but I will save you some time.
Here is a site with thousands of contradictions of the quran including your fundamental contradiction in your OP.
Click and Click

Anyone who studies the Qur'an can clearly see many immoral and primitve medieval teachings in the Qur'an, this is not even debatable!

More importantly, according to the Qur'an, billions of "polytheists" will go to an eternal Hellfire....

If you can't see how incredibly irrational, unjust and unacceptable such a belief system is, then I have nothing further to say. Feel free to believe that billions of polytheists, i.e. Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Hindus and others are condemned to an eternal Hell by the Merciful God... rotfl rotfl rotfl

If that makes sense to you, then we have a very very different idea about what logic, justice and fairness is...

Peace.

mmkhan

Even more importantly, according to the Qur'an, billions of "polytheists" will go to an eternal Hellfire

Peace,

Well you made a very big claim bro.
I am interested in knowing those aayaat which gives you info about what you claimed.
Please quote the aayaats. Thanks.

Recluse

Have you ever read the Qur'an? Look it up please, I'm sure you can find those verses yourself...

Islam is the only accceptable religion No other religion will be accepted by the merciful God.

And polytheists/mushriks will never be forgiven by the Merciful God. All of this is in the Qur'an

Are you claiming that the Qur'an doesn't say all this?

If that is the case, then you believe in a book that you haven't read.... or maybe you've read it only once and forgot.

mmkhan

Have you ever read the Qur'an? Look it up please, I'm sure you can find those verses yourself...

Islam is the only accceptable religion No other religion will be accepted by the merciful God

And polytheists will never be forgiven. All of this is in the Qur'an

You probably believe in a book that you haven't read properly....

Peace,

This is not the answer to my question bro.
It is strange that you dont know the aayaat to quote and you are making such a big claim? &
No, I don't find aayaat regarding what you said.
If you know please quote them if you cannot then repentance is the best option.

Recluse

Just wondering; Have you ever read the Qur'an bro?

Please be honest because it most certainly doesn't seem so...

I will find them for you, but I will do this only once. I'm not going to quote any more verses after that.. I don't like playing that silly game.

Here you go;

"And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers." &

And there are many many verses saying that muhsriks/polytheists, i.e. those who "ascribe partners to Him" will never be forgiven. I hope you already know of those verses? -\ Or do I have to find one of those too? It's not hard you know, even you could find them in seconds, I'm sure!

And I'm not going to repeat myself anymore. Only if I see sincerity, I will reply.. haven't seen much of that until now!

Peace.

mmkhan

Just wondering; Have you ever read the Qur'an bro?

Please be honest because it most certainly doesn't seem so...

I will find them for you, but I will do this only once. I'm not going to quote any more verses after that.. I don't like playing that silly game.

Here you go;

Ali Imran 85;

"And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers."

Peace and thanks,

I came to know that you dont know anything about alQuraanic Arabic.
There is no mention of the word 'religion' in this aayat.

Deen = System.

And the word Islam cannot be translated as Islam.
Islam means Peace.

If you are referring to the judgement day when you said 'hereafter' you are wrong again.
Please refer to this article about the meaning of alAakhirat.

Now I think no further clarification is needed. You can translate the aayat on your own now and understand it.

And there are many verses saying that muhsriks/polytheists, i.e. those who "ascribe partners to Him" will never be forgiven. I hope you already know of those verses? Or do I have to find one of those too? It's not hard you know....

You wrote

muhsriks/polytheists

Will never be forgiven
will go to an eternal Hellfire....

You also said
God will burn billions of Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Shintoists and others in an eternal Hell?

billions of Buddhists, Hindus and others are condemned to Hellfire.

And you also believe that if someone born in Thailand becomes a polytheist by default.

Please choose the single correct point from above that you want to discuss. Thanks.

Will you apologize and repent now?

Peace.

I always do to my Sustainer.

Peace.

good_logic

Peace Recluse.

I say to you "any religion" and you skip past it like you did not read it and claim that "chineese. Japoneese.,Hindus...etc are not included.

Your argument is based on misunderstanding of what "Islam" is.

May be I shall put it to you this way

Jew "Muslim", Hindu Muslim, Christian Muslim, Moslim Muslim, Japaneese Muslim, Atheist Muslim...etc Anybody/Anyreligion Muslim...(And Yes there could also be an Atheist Muslim under certain conditions). All these Muslims are defined in that verse I quoted you!!!!

I can see now,having read your posts, why you have given up with Qoran. I hope you reconsider brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Man_of_Faith

Recluse,

People are definitely born into an existing culture and religion. It's sad that I have to explain this again; why are most people in Korea, Japan or China not "monotheists"? Answer; Because they were born into another culture/religion, that's the only reason....

Why are "Saudis / Arabs" Muslim? If those same Arab "Muslims" had been born in Thailand, they too would have gone to an eternal Hell as polytheists. Now, of course I don't believe that (maybe you don't really believe it either), but that is what the Qur'an seems to imply.

Actually humans are born heavy polytheists (idolators) and what they idolize the most is their own body, or rather they associate themselves with it.

But joke apart, things do not have to do with deism at all and whether it is monotheism or polytheism but about what you make of yourself and what you associate yourself with. The only negative association is to associate oneself with this contradicting world rather than your identity in Rabb which is both singular and plural at the same time including us making different forms of deism redundant to discuss.

Be well
Amenuel

Bender

Anyone who studies the Qur'an can clearly see many immoral and primitve medieval teachings in the Qur'an, this is not even debatable!

What is immoral with having a couple of teenage girls as wives?
And what is primitive about saluting every time a mosque when I enter it?

More importantly, according to the Qur'an, billions of "polytheists" will go to an eternal Hellfire....

But eternal hell fire should be their destiny.

If you can't see how incredibly irrational, unjust and unacceptable such a belief system is, then I have nothing further to say. Feel free to believe that billions of polytheists, i.e. Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Hindus and others are condemned to an eternal Hell by the Merciful God... rotfl rotfl rotfl

RED You have at least to agree with me on the Japanese people, those are by far the worst creatures here on earth, they deserve much much more then eternal hell fire.
But unfortunately God is Merciful, so they will go only to hell fire >
But I should not complain as I can watch them burn from my sofa while chilling with my 72 beautiful big eyed virgins yay

If that makes sense to you, then we have a very very different idea about what logic, justice and fairness is...

Peace.

If you do not hate Japanese people then there is indeed nothing to discuss with me.

peace

imrankhawaja

RED You have at least to agree with me on the Japanese people, those are by far the worst creatures here on earth, they deserve much much more then eternal hell fire.
peace

example of hiro sheema and nagasaki the only event happened that recorded deaths , becoz japanese and german (nazi) was about to kill and rule the whole world . so atom bomb was the only option but after that there is a ban that nobody will use atom bomb it includes the killing of civilians which have no link with army political issues , but again , it happened once with russia when russia plan to destroy world but get destroyed instead , now in pieces due to cold war , but again in the end its all depend on Allah who will gona die when,and how this world will get destroyed.

peace,

good_logic

Peace Bender.

I tell you brother,I rather go to eternal hell than have 72 beautiful eyed virgins.

Relaxing with them, you must be joking. How can you relax?

I cannot relax now with only one! By the way we say the same about each other!!!

If you want you can have my other 71 as well. How does 143 of them sound to you?

I am amazed at how Soloman managed according to that story of his in that other book?

Anyway brother, best of luck to you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.