Question regarding transsexualism in the Quran
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No I conveyed my message clearly to you.
I now see your position. You just follow your desires. So do whatever you will, Allah Sees and Hears All. He will judge among us and show you everything you did.Because being able to quoting random Quran verses and take them out of their context certainly makes you better in the eye of God. If you believe you are superior because of that, than be my guest. I won't try to change you. But if you talk, i answer. God didn't create language to troll, he created language so you would discuss things and then try to understand things by discussing with other observers.
I looked back at your post, and all you do is claim you have 'evidence' but first of all you don't explain what exactly you are trying to prove and second of all, it doesnt prove anything.
At least i'm honest enough to admit that most things i say are estimations, observations and intuition (which is usually sufficiently reliable, because it's the part of me that is in connection to God, if you don't feel connected to God, well, isn't it about time your start to do so?)
But apparently you have so-called evidence. You then back up your evidence by using verses that don't support your opinions at all. Though you don't really seem to bother to explain what your opinions are either. You prefer to talk in mysteries and hide behind the fa?ade of the Quran.
If abusing the Quran is your way of proving things. Well, then i hope for you God will forgive you. But if he forgives you, i won't object to that, because it's his decision, and he has the right to do so. And what if he forgives me? Are you going to take God to court because he does something conflicting with your image of the Quran? If you're that certain that your interpretations are proven facts, then i dare you to dake God to court for creating gender diversity! Yes of course it's ridiculous to question God! And that's what you're doing, you question his creation of trans people. (and other here also just try to prove it an put it on media, trends or capitalism) Look at the mirror before you dare to accuse someone of not respecting God's creation.What you did there are bring up stuff like 'being ungrateful'. Have i once mentionted that i'm ungrateful? No, God made me a transgendered person, and i do not blame him for that. I'm thankful that i've been lucky to experience so many things. Isn't denying my true self closer to being ungrateful than adapting to my true self?
You use the argument 'man and women', but when confronted to the obvious fact that the distinction between man and woman isn't clear-cut, you just go blurgh. And how can you blame someone for not reproducing when the world suffers massive overpopulation, whilst many children are parentless, and people like me would be happy to give shelter to parentless kids. Are you going to take care for those parentless kids? Well, i would be delighted to do so! Or are you going to claim those parentless kids should just die and rot and nobody has the right to care for them because God wants it like that? Sounds like a certain western religion to me. That religion is called Capitalism.
You complain about rejecting Gods creation (which is very diverse), but the only thing you do is closing your eyes to Gods beautiful creations if you don't like them. If it exists, it's created by God, and it is created for a purpose. If you don't like the idea of having a purpose, well yeah, again, then go take God to court if you are unhappy with it.I don't have to answer. I answer because i feel it's my responsability to to do so.
And your GMO argument is even more irrelevant. How can you compare destroying natural diversity to defending natural diversity? If you choose to refuse to understand the world as it is, how can you claim that someone else disrespects it? Claiming something is unnatural because you don't like it doesnt make it unnatural. Claiming something is unnatural because you refuse to read the Quran without worldly context doesnt prove it is unnatural. You can't abuse the Quran forever to justify your own dislikes and fears, i think it's time for you to stop being a child and face the world as it is. And when you dare to quote holy words, make sure they are relevant.
I do not 'just follow my own desires'. I have conversations with people who are directly involved with me, so i try to not hurt them. I am not without sin, of course. But calling me selfish? Yeah sure. I'm doing all this effort for selfish reason you know. Because you know what? I want to take over the world and make all muslims gay and infect them with HIV! Because i'm an illuminati lizard jew hired by the KGB, thats why!
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Because they had nothing to do with the subject. If you insist i give you a reaction, you're free to explain their relevancy.
Agan, this is not exclusive to LGBT, with most African countries with their high HIV-ratings in general as a good example.you're avoiding the issue by talking about third world countries instead of comparing directly with the population living in the same country as the 1 in 5 homosexuals having aids live in
i think it's very telling what you told us, you had to bring up third world countries to save your argument
compare what is comparable
Statistics are meaningless when there's no context. If city A has a number of 2000 registered crimes per year and city B a number of 4000 registered crimes, that doesnt mean city B automatically has more crimes. It could also mean the police of city B did their job a lot better than that of city A. Statistics are rather worthless if you look at the pure numbers. Because 'closeted' people will never pop up into the statistics, but their number is extremely big. Every statistic should be taken with a grain of salt, and emotionality is a huge factor in understanding the whole picture.
If the North-Korean goverment will tell you 100% of their population is heterosexual, are you seriously going to believe such a source (an official one), without taking it with a grain of salt? Usually emotional estimations are a bit closer to the real world than close statistics. At least when it comes to things that are not accepted like LGBT. They aren't accepted in the west, they are tolerated. Please understand the difference between these words.you're dismissing very important and very serious information with logical fallacies
when the CDC does their statistics, they are very rigorous, and when they tested homosexuals, they found that for a very good number N of homosexuals, one in five have HIV
that's the bottom line and there's no moral relativism or logical fallacies that will help you save your argument, the whole LGBT community is wicked because it is a movement principally based on sexuality and "free love"
the statistics prove this
I havent implied that thing about kids at all. Though it is the case that there is a concencus amongst heterosexual couples to have no kids and no marriage. Marriage and family nowadays is considered backwards, and the ones who want kids or families it the most are usually the LGBT people.
that's straight up bullshit excuse my french
(and that's a heartbreaking dilemma, though we don't really have a choice) I'm not really sure where you get this from.
Bisexual, Asexual, Bigender and Agender have nothing to do with the desire to have kids or not. Besides, for most of these groups, there's not much problem fitting into heteronormativity. However that doesnt mean they are hetero. Not having sexual desires does not mean you are physically unable to have sex, and being attracted to both genders does not usually pose any problems, as eventually they will choose either a heterosexual or a homosexual relationship. Usually a heterosexual because homosexuality is still frowned upon.this needs to be proven
Agender just means you're trying to be as genderneutral as possible, and bigender means you want to use both your male and female qualities. This doesnt usually pose problems, unless your partner/family/workplaces is extremely conservative, and insisting on media-based gender norms. Which is unfortunately still the case at some places.
this flies in the face of reality
i'm going back to what i said earlier, the vast majority of people out there are clear cis gendered heteroscum who do not fit into the LGBTQTP rainbow of gender class warfare lunacyEmpirical studies see my point above. They don't give a representative image of society. And no, in an anonymous poll, closeted people will still lie about their truth, because they're still scared someone will read it.
anonymous means no name and nothing recognizable
there are true and tested methods that give very accurate numbers, and you only learn that by going to a statistics and probability class in university or even on youtube
i think statistics and probability should be a mandatory part of everyone's education at this point, going deep into this subject because it helps understand a lot about pretty much everything
It doesnt make logical sense, but most of them have such little self-confidence that they will never admit it, not even anonymous. You don't seem to grasp what being closeted really means. Then there is also the problem of people being in denial. Are you seriously claiming that you're going to be able to put that into reliable statistics?
the burden of proof remains on you to show me the number of people in denial and the number of closetedIf anything, i only gained credebility, because i'm in favour of having a realistic representation of the world, rather than just believing only what i see. It is a fact that you can not put things into statistics when the information needed for these statistics is not available.
but you keep bringing up numbers without proof
Yes, i'm very, very critical to American sources. After all America is a christian-conservative and ?bercapitalist country. Every official source there has to be taken with a grain of salt. I'm not saying their statistics are wrong in se. I'm mostly saying they don't show the whole picture.
first of all there's literally nothing wrong with capitalism and there's nothing wrong with american christians, second of all i'm bringing you CDC and WHO stats which are not conservative run entities if you knew anything about them
stop hiding behind this fake "im such a progressive modern european" veil
Yup, and you we both know the actual number of homosexuals with HIV is far lower.
this shows you do not understand how statistics works
do you understand what frequency is? whenever the CDC would test homosexuals, the frequency of homos with hiv was far higher than that of heteros
instead of trying to understand why this is the case, you're simply dismissing the information as corrupt or wrong or erroneous
But when it comes to LGBT issues, estimations from insiders are still more realistic than statistics from the outsiders.
i also know the LGBTPTQ lobby is strong and well funded by leftist billionaires such as SOROS and the likes
you may not see the color of the money but someone does
i know for a fact that LGBTPTQ lifestyle is incompatible with what's written in the quran, considering what kind of people is representing the LGBTBBQ group nowadays
i mean, many of it's adherents promote aids and HIV as being great and totally cool, or how we should all live in a world where everyone has aids
yes, this happened, and yes, it's surreal
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That post on the 7th page of the thread I made was actually meant for Aisha. I do not know why but for some reason I thought you were Aisha under a different username. Do you have any relation to her?
That would explains why you never responded to begin with. Misunderstanding.
Although, I would have to remain firm and truthful with you.
It is indeed a Great thing that Allah has guided you to Himself, IF you are among the truthful. I am genuinely happy for that. I went back and read your OP.
My friend you came here for answers so give me ear and overlook our bad start.
Shall you? -
i mean, many of it's adherents promote aids and HIV as being great and totally cool, or how we should all live in a world where everyone has aids
Okay, sorry, that does end the discussion. I wrote a whole fell-funded answer (as i always did in this topic), but after saying insulting things like this, there is no point in continuing to talk with you. If you didn't understand it, my last comment to HP was cynical, just to say 'what you want to hear'
You're alienated from reality, and as long as you don't face reality, you'll only become more frustrated. You've been constantly claiming things about the west are just not true and not even realistic, and you keep on insisting on reliability of data which is by current technology impossible to be reliable or complete. Math revolves around one thing reliable data. That's what all math teachers (and physics teachers and chemisty teachers and biology teachers and geography teachers, etc. have told me) If you keep on insisting that data you referred to is reliable, whilst ignoring my very valid points i talked about, well, then you're just trolling. You can troll people, but you can't troll God.
If you're going to use guesswork to make your math work, then your argument against someone else who uses estimations is invalid. It does not matter how statistics work or not, because if you went outside, you'd see that at this point in history, the statistics are totally not matching up with the reality. I am confident that this will be possible in the future and we'll both live to see that day, but right now, statistics are just not complete enough. Using my intuition is more reliable than using statistics, because unlike your statistics, my intuition matches the real world pretty good.A fact that is very visible to the naked eye is that God created a diverse and beautiful world. If you don't experience it that way, you have to argue with the creator. If the real world doesnt match up with your interpretation of the Quran (and it clearly doesn't), then you are reading it wrong, because the way i read it, it makes perfect sense.
If you think you know the west better than everyone who lives here... well... facepalm
I also do not consider western values superior. Why would i even consider a religion that is hated by many people (islam) if i cared only about western values?But i'll return the favour and say a bold accusation towards you if you keep up this antiworldly attitude you'll end up being an otaku whose only social interaction is your waifu.
That post on the 7th page of the thread I made was actually meant for Aisha. I do not know why but for some reason I thought you were Aisha under a different username. Do you have any relation to her?
That would explains why you never responded to begin with. Misunderstanding.
Although, I would have to remain firm and truthful with you.
It is indeed a Great thing that Allah has guided you to Himself, IF you are among the truthful. I am genuinely happy for that. I went back and read your OP.
My friend you came here for answers so give me ear and overlook our bad start.
Shall you?I genuinely appreciate this comment and i do not blame you for mixing us up. No i do not have any relation to Aisha and she seems to be inactive today. I just bumped upon the topic she created some years ago by googling my questions, because it was relevant to me. So far i've had lot of answers to my questions, and i do not regret considering islam. The way i read it, it matches up to the reality.
I totally expected having to go into some arguments and even though it is hard to not lose my patience when some people are ignorant about the real world, it's a good preparation for when i go public with my transition, because i'll always have to face such opposition. Therefore avoiding opposition is not the right thing. God is testing me if i'm truly a woman by putting my trough these trails, and it makes perfect sense that he does so. It's by no means fun, but i'm accepting the challenge. The other test is being totally honest with my close ones, and i'm doing that too.
I apologise for any bold statements. Yet though i still think your points towards Aisha weren't really helpful to her either (if she were able to read it). I think my suggestion towards her of 'wait until your kid is an adult' was something we can both agree on though. Correct me if i'm wrong. -
you'll end up being an otaku whose only social interaction is your waifu
Never thought I'd read that here but awesome. Don't be discouraged by some who think they've got it all figured out, they're everywhere. You've done a great job of responding in a classy way (and no, I don't particularly like Trump). -
Never thought I'd read that here but awesome. Don't be discouraged by some who think they've got it all figured out, they're everywhere. You've done a great job of responding in a classy way (and no, I don't particularly like Trump).
I always thought that it really takes one otaku to know one. Just being familiar with those terms alone is indicative! "Waifu" Rofl haha
Anyway...terrible joke on my part..
Hello SC,
How are you? Did you receive my message? I PM'd you about 2 days ago, I think I PM'd the right person...maybe something glitched... -
Never thought I'd read that here but awesome. Don't be discouraged by some who think they've got it all figured out, they're everywhere. You've done a great job of responding in a classy way (and no, I don't particularly like Trump).
Brohoof!
(taking it too far?) -
Lol, not far enough brony...
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i remember song just chill chill just chill,
@ sinem, i just read ur comments pointing out u dnt know aisha and if i am not wrong you are male with female combination,
i was thinking its the son of aisha he probably be 16 by now,
and i can understand its a gifted creation enjoying characterstics of both sexes, lmao from your discussion,
anyway as far i concern there are lot of other things muslims dnt suppose to do but still they do it , like murder, sex, lie, dishonesty and lot more specially 99.99 canot escape from one unfavorable thing what we call backbitting , so it dosent matter but make sure you love your lord, obey your lord, never assosiate anything with lord, and rest of the matters God will decide and judge according to the conditions provided to beings, peace -
Lol, not far enough brony...
The female word would be 'pegasister'. Gosh, i lost all my credibility now, did i? ;D I suppose you're not actually muslim but a haruhiist?
@ sinem, i just read ur comments pointing out u dnt know aisha and if i am not wrong you are male with female combination
I guess that depends on your defenition (which is the whole point of the topic in the first place). I am what you would consider the same as her son/daughter (we don't know how this evolved, so i'll keep the slash in there), but the difference is i'm an adult person, and thus far better qualified to claim such things about myself than a teenager, as for teenagers this often is just a phase, however, when these feelings are still around in your late twenties, they're not ever going to dissapear, because they're inherent to your nature.
(also lot of transgendered people only realise it when they reach an age around 16 and 18 when the effects of male hormones (or female hormones in case of female-to-male transgendered people) start to become truly visible and the contrast between your personality and your body/instinctive nature becomes apparent. As opposed to the shallow reasons like clothing or toys that you find in kids.I'm what i refer to as semi-closeted. By which i mean i haven't started the 'transition' (reasons for that are lack of financial/professional stability and other issues not related to this), but i am open about it to all people important (partner, closest family, closest friends). Also as i mentioned a few times, i prefer to think such a decision trough and trough before i do it, because rushing into it will only cause damage to myself and other people in the long term. Though i've had some toe-in-the-water experiences/efforts, which led me to the conclusion that shallow stuff as simply changing clothes does not make me feel more or less feminine. Another problem is confusion between gender issues and things like autism and ADD/ADHD. Often people who originally got a (wrongful) autism-diagnosis later turn out to be transgendered instead, and there is currently a lot of research going on about these relations of these 3 'mental handicaps' (not illnesses), according to my psychiatrist. And i did need to understand more about all of those issues so i can distinguish the specific characteristics of them and try to seperate them from each other. And it seems autism isn't much of an issue (only the outside appearance), especially as my way of reasoning is totally different to them. (i met a lot of people).
I mention this, because i got a feeling that sooner or later someone would come up with autism to try to troll the discussion, but i beat them to it by confirming there is actual serious research going on about that relation. Theres much overlap in behaviour, though the way of thinking is different. With age, symptons have lessened and i'm more able to express myself like i really am somewhat emotional and someone who loves to talk and discuss and i'm somewhat of a chaotic personality and i feel uncomfortable with structured and simplistic things. I'm more a person who thinks and talks between the lines and outside of the box, and has lot of trouble thinking inside of the box. Quite the opposite of an autist thus, however i haven't been able to express myself that way in the past, which led to the wrongful diagnosis. (it's possible that some traces of autism are inside of me, but they are not significant, and i found out they were mostly learned behaviour from my parents rather than inherent nature)I've also been meeting specialists and fellow trans people (and autists too) But as i mentioned before, that 'public scene' is full of shallow people, which is probably what most people see. But i've also been able to talk to genuine people who acted normal. This is however not what the media sees. That scene is also not the 'mass drag queen disco orgy' stereotype as portrayed in movies, but just calm meeting places. Though those wild bars probably exist. That's not quite relevant, but a certain person seemed to think it is. The average homosexual does not look like Boy George and the average transgendered person does not look like Cher. They actually look like normal everyday people.
I'm also lucky that my partner comes from a Southeast Asian county where trans people are an everyday occurence. Having been there, i can indeed confirm that in that part of the world, you see lots of them every day, and that is only counting the ones where you can see it. I suppose this is partially due to the former Hindu influence in the whole of South Asia (which are today day both Buddhist, Christian and Muslim countries), and partially because those places are very densily populated.
Here in Europe, though, trans people are less accepted than in South/East Asia, and as i mentioned some pages ago, the scenes are somewhat elitist, so most people remain closeted or avoid being related to the scene. This however does not mean they don't exist, as a specific person tried to suggest. At the same time he also tried to suggest everyone in Europe is trans. Go figure. Though it must be said the public perception, the perception by specialists and the perception of the trans scene themselves are vastly different than my first attempts around 10 years ago. This because the young generation is more realistic about gender dysphoria, as they have a lot more access to clear and correct information. (especially as there are some official information website related to clinics, as opposed to the questionable blogs 10 years ago. And slowly the people who don't fit in to the typical 'i knew it as a kid' story are starting to find each other. The specialists also seem to notice that they focussed on the wrong people in their research.
It has been argued that a lot of people regret their decision. But looking closer, those people usually had many personality problems, others rushed in too fast and others had totally unrealistic expectations. The current generation is a lot more realistic.See, again i explain a lot more than i'm suppossed to, haha.
And yeah, i'd like to repeat that indeed i'm not ungrateful about how i was made. It is quite painful and i'm defenitely not happy joy joy about it, but i try to just make the best out of and try not to hurt others in the process.
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@ sinem yeh in my country there are lot of these people , they have different names, like khusra, hejra, khawjasira,
are you talking about them, but if u know they are males they makeup in such a way they looks womens or trans
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their names are most likely ,
fareeda rakshay wala,
naveed bablee,
zakoota kukri faroosh,
hameeda kothay tapni,
i know one of them was my frd he used to make up like womens and used to earn money by dancing in wedding parties ,
hahaha one funny situation one of them get gang rape once but police was unable to identify what gender they write in FIR so they write gender unknown
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I genuinely appreciate this comment and i do not blame you for mixing us up. No i do not have any relation to Aisha and she seems to be inactive today. I just bumped upon the topic she created some years ago by googling my questions, because it was relevant to me. So far i've had lot of answers to my questions, and i do not regret considering islam. The way i read it, it matches up to the reality.
I totally expected having to go into some arguments and even though it is hard to not lose my patience when some people are ignorant about the real world, it's a good preparation for when i go public with my transition, because i'll always have to face such opposition. Therefore avoiding opposition is not the right thing. God is testing me if i'm truly a woman by putting my trough these trails, and it makes perfect sense that he does so. It's by no means fun, but i'm accepting the challenge. The other test is being totally honest with my close ones, and i'm doing that too.
I apologise for any bold statements. Yet though i still think your points towards Aisha weren't really helpful to her either (if she were able to read it). I think my suggestion towards her of 'wait until your kid is an adult' was something we can both agree on though. Correct me if i'm wrong.Please await patiently, I will if Allah so wills come forth with a response fit for your questions in due time.
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The female word would be 'pegasister'. Gosh, i lost all my credibility now, did i? ;D I suppose you're not actually muslim but a haruhiist?
I think I'd prefer to be called brony since the female version is even worse! Don't worry about it, lost mine a long time back, and... I actually liked that anime back in the day laugh
their names are most likely ,
fareeda rakshay wala,
naveed bablee,
zakoota kukri faroosh,
hameeda kothay tapni,
i know one of them was my frd he used to make up like womens and used to earn money by dancing in wedding parties ,
hahaha one funny situation one of them get gang rape once but police was unable to identify what gender they write in FIR so they write gender unknown
What are you talking about...their names are most likely etc? These are their individual stage names or whatever they use to ply their trade, it's not 'most likely'. Not all such people are in that trade neither do they have these types of names. And that is not really a funny situation.
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And that is not really a funny situation.
lolx ooh i did not told you about the details, actually one of them was agree to do jigi jigi with one of the visitor who like the dance of that male/female version but during the process he could not finalise it becoz he was thinking something else , so he told to that dancer its cheating now give money back or give half servcice to one of my friend in return, dancer refused it and they get fighting , his makeup was like womens but his punches in self defence was fully male version punches rotfl rotfl
and police was in confusion what is this case rotfl people who try to make fun of nature and system they face consequences,
one more thing i know personally one of them and he have his own kids from a women , day time he is full make version night time he dance , i asked y you doing this then he said profession of earning money,
and anyboody remeber indian movie saddak(road) in which maharani played this role she was brotherl head,
and according to hadith or fatwa, if you irritate or tease anyone of them , your wishes never get fullfill and they will give you bad dua. something like curse, voodoo
and its nothing funny but i cant help it, for me its totally funny.depend on the taste of humor
there are some of them who engage in sex for money and inreturn they give you sex and massage both, a combination of relaxation ,lol
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and police was in confusion what is this case people who try to make fun of nature and system they face consequences
So...gang rape is a consequence of transvestites 'making fun of nature and system'? Right. I'm not really sure what is more amusing, the glaring disconnect or the lack of self awareness of how one comes across. I guess it would depend on the taste of humor. Some may even find it sad however.
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So...gang rape is a consequence of transvestites 'making fun of nature and system'? Right. I'm not really sure what is more amusing, the glaring disconnect or the lack of self awareness of how one comes across. I guess it would depend on the taste of humor. Some may even find it sad however.
my brother , you are making me laugh again, i did not say gang rape is the consequences of making fun of nature,
i was telling you the situation in which all these things happen and they confused in nature of fir, in the law of country there was only two genders , male female, so they write unkown gender in FIR and it was not gang rape at all , it was more likely you can say undisputed business between two males and one unkown gender, and reuslt finsih in fight, so ploice catch them, then the funny sitaution started before it was sad i agree, lol
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So no one actually got gang raped. The word was used just for effect apparently. Lest it sound like I'm disappointed, I'm not, more relieved but then there's the issue of your wording that means something else entirely to you other than what it reads as. I feel cheated. And violated by this egregious misuse. At least the multiple commas stopped, thank you. My mother always told me to look on the bright side.