undisputed facts about Quran
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Hizbullah,
You may pay attention to that it does not mention Quran in any way. As for the messenger it means the there is a person speaking the tongue of his people in order to reveal information in their own language. Teach about spirituality you can do without a book actually in communion with Allah. This is the danger with belief in a "Holy Book" as people may become obsessed with them. Allah does not guide with books alone and an insightful person can guide "on-the-fly".
Be well
Amenuel -
Amenuel
Yes it does, in case you have forgotten, the Quran is a Book that provide detail explanation. Explain in Arabic only and to the Arabs only?
There are many verses in the Quran that says to believe in the Book, let me quote you one...0202-04
That is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious
Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,
And who believe what was sent to you, and what was sent before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain
So we are to believe in the unseen, establish prayer spend out what we get, in what was sent to the Messenger and what was sent before the Messenger....So MOF what was sent to he Messenger and before him, if it was not the Quran?
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Amenuel
Yes it does, in case you have forgotten, the Quran is a Book that provide detail explanation. Explain in Arabic only and to the Arabs only?
There are many verses in the Quran that says to believe in the Book, let me quote you one...0202-04
That is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious
Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,
And who believe what was sent to you, and what was sent before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain
So we are to believe in the unseen, establish prayer spend out what we get, in what was sent to the Messenger and what was sent before the Messenger....So MOF what was sent to he Messenger and before him, if it was not the Quran?
For clarification, it sounds to me like you believe that ALL the messengers were given a (physical) Book exactly like Qur'an (in their own language, of course)? Do you believe this?
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For clarification, it sounds to me like you believe that ALL the messengers were given a (physical) Book exactly like Qur'an (in their own language, of course)? Do you believe this?
Yes, that s what the Quran explicitly says,
Quran 1404
And that we sent message of a messenger except in the language of his people to state clearly for them......
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apart from quran, all other books and scriptures may contain words of God and may contain words of pops, priest,rabbis,historians. and in different versions.
with quran its unique , the original language in which direct revelation recived is there since 1400 years atleast ,
people claiming here its been there since adam or some ar claiming since 4th century bc, but they dnt have any historical proof for this,
some people also think muhammad plagarised it or steal it , this evdence in the light of quran also hold no water,
i want some ideas of different people whats actually it is , and for the people who believe on reverse theories of quran where are their proofs or reasoning so that we all investigate it properly,
peace
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apart from quran, all other books and scriptures may contain words of God and may contain words of pops, priest,rabbis,historians. and in different versions.
with quran its unique , the original language in which direct revelation recived is there since 1400 years atleast ,
people claiming here its been there since adam or some ar claiming since 4th century bc, but they dnt have any historical proof for this,
some people also think muhammad plagarised it or steal it , this evdence in the light of quran also hold no water,
i want some ideas of different people whats actually it is , and for the people who believe on reverse theories of quran where are their proofs or reasoning so that we all investigate it properly,
peace
Te whole thing with the quran is that no one has some real evidence about it's origin.
Best "evidences" what we have are the hadiths and you know how reliable they are. -
Te whole thing with the quran is that no one has some real evidence about it's origin.
Best "evidences" what we have are the hadiths and you know how reliable they are.but the oldest copy of quran which is in birmingham library right now indicated the dates with the the dates of hadith(history)
its muslims who write the earliest history records i can understand hadith are not reliable but all the histories have same reliablity whether it is by muslims jews christians hindus so in light of history and the oldest copies indicates the muhammad was there and the dates are alright . evidences are enough
but again the people who are claiming opposite of it they dnt have any evidence so far , i will not gona beleive on their theories untill it will come to me with proper resoning and proof or any historical evidence.
peace
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Te whole thing with the quran is that no one has some real evidence about it's origin.
Best "evidences" what we have are the hadiths and you know how reliable they are.The Quran says in 1689
We have sent down to you the Book as manifestation for all things and as guidance and mercy and good tidings for the Muslims.
The Quran is truely the manifestation of all things including its origin! The Quran says that it was in the era of the Cursive Musnad writings which was presented in the 3rd / 4th Century CE. What further evidences or empirical research do we need?
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The Quran says in 1689
We have sent down to you the Book as manifestation for all things and as guidance and mercy and good tidings for the Muslims.
The Quran is truely the manifestation of all things including its origin! The Quran says that it was in the era of the Cursive Musnad writings which was presented in the 3rd / 4th Century CE. What further evidences or empirical research do we need?
how can you so sure about the dates i didnt see any dates 3rd or 4th century in whole quran, and where is the evidence?
now dnt reply me in the same manner about the dates 7th century is not mention as well,
red where does quran say something like that can you plz reference it, thanx
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how can you so sure about the dates i didnt see any dates 3rd or 4th century in whole quran, and where is the evidence?
Cursive Musnad is a writting script dated on palaeographic grounds to the 3rd / 4th Century CE confirmed by Professor Peter Stein, an expert in Ancient South Arabian script, from the University of Jena, Germany .
now dnt reply me in the same manner about the dates 7th century .
What are you talking about? Rephrase your sentence
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Cursive Musnad is a writting script dated on palaeographic grounds to the 3rd / 4th Century CE confirmed by Professor Peter Stein, an expert in Ancient South Arabian script, from the University of Jena, Germany .
whats in there, whether this so called writting script dated on 1000 bc does it make any difference? obviously arabic was not alien language for prophet, it was developed ages before revelation of quran its quite logical, and thats what aqal(reason) suggest us, if Allah want to talk with you he will talk with you in your native language instead of japanese.
What are you talking about? Rephrase your sentence
forget about it, i was guessing may be you will reply me in same tone about 7th century , although its not wirtten in quran infact any event in quran is not written in dates its due to a reason, this is a timeless book by timeless God, dnt need dates.
again u didnt give me the answer wher does quran say what you claim? in red
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nd one more thing .
professor peter stain,
if he get findings like, 6000 bc, or 1500 ad regarding something about this script, did it mean we blindly follow him or beleive him,
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whats in there, whether this so called writting script dated on 1000 bc does it make any difference? obviously arabic was not alien language for prophet, it was developed ages before revelation of quran its quite logical, and thats what aqal(reason) suggest us,
Where is your proof? Btw my logic is base from the Quran and it shows me that the original and oldest Arabic version Quran was written in Cursive Musnad script not Hijazi or Kufic script or Nastaliq Script! HIJAZI SCRIPT WAS ADOPTED IN THE 4TH CENTURY / 5TH CENTURY
Raqqush Inscription base on Nabatean Aramaic script dated in the 3rd Century. This is Ancient North Arabian script
http//arabetics.com/public/html/DeArabizing_Arabia/DeArabizing_Arabia_Chapter_3_English_files/image001.png
Jabal Ramm inscription dated in the 5th Century. . This inscription is the first oldest so far discovered in the Arabic alphabet. The grammar in this inscription is straightforward classical Arabic.
http//arabetics.com/public/html/more/History%20of%20the%20Arabic%20Script_article_files/image012.gif
So called Pre-Islamic Arabic Inscription At Umm Al-Jimal. The grammar in this inscription is straightforward classical Arabic.
http//arabetics.com/public/html/more/History%20of%20the%20Arabic%20Script_article_files/image022.jpg
Zebed Inscription So called A Pre-Islamic Trilingual Inscription In Greek, Syriac & Arabic from 5th / 6th Century CE. The Arabic is classical Arabic .
http//arabetics.com/public/html/more/History%20of%20the%20Arabic%20Script_article_files/image005.gif
Jabal Usays InscriptionSo called Pre-Islamic Arabic Inscription From 528 CE. This is the only so called pre-Islamic Arabic inscription with historical content.
https//s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/90/4a/ee/904aee273b1a96f93443ade5418661fe.jpg
Harran Inscription So called Pre-Islamic Arabic Inscription From 568 CE. A Greek-Arabic bilingual inscription from Harran, near Damascus, Syria.
https//squarekufic.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/harran1.png?w=676
One of the two earliest Arabic Kf inscriptions found in Mount Sal`, Madnah, Saudi Arabia. Dated 4 Islamic Hijr calendar (625 CE)
http//arabetics.com/public/html/more/History%20of%20the%20Arabic%20Script_article_files/image014.jpg
In the 3rd and 4th Century CE, only ANA and ASA were use in the north and Yemen respectively.
if Allah want to talk with you he will talk with you in your native language instead of japanese.
Exactly, that was what i am trying to tell you, ALLAH WILL TALK TO US IN OUR NATIVE LANGUAGE AS PER QURAN 1404!
again u didnt give me the answer wher does quran say what you claim? in red
My replied to you in my thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606373.90
And when you see them, you wonder their personality, and if they speak, you listen to their speech. They were Musnad script wood....
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nd one more thing .
professor peter stain,
if he get findings like, 6000 bc, or 1500 ad regarding something about this script, did it mean we blindly follow him or beleive him,
Say "Travel through the earth and see how ALLAH did originate creation;
Palaeography is the knowledge of ancient and historical handwriting. Experts like Prof Stein confirms of the forms and processes of writing and the textual content of documents. This is what knowledge is all about. Without knowledge, you are nothing, you will only be a blind follower. Thats why ALLAH says travel the earth not only for vacation but also for study purposes.
Furthermore, the most important thing is that the Quran is the manifestation of all things. Whateever the Quran agrees we will accept and what ever the Quran rejects we will reject.
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Exactly, that was what i am trying to tell you, ALLAH WILL TALK TO US IN OUR NATIVE LANGUAGE AS PER QURAN 1404!
And He hasn't stopped "talking" or should I say "communicating"..
Most of the time He's talking not in language at all... but in events and symbols..
We just need to be sensitive enough to listen..Furthermore, the most important thing is that the Quran is the manifestation of all things. Whateever the Quran agrees we will accept and what ever the Quran rejects we will reject.
Incorrect.. God is the manifestation of all things and not some holy book..
Whatever God has PLANNED / Agrees it will HAPPEN and whatever God Reject / Not Planned it will NOT HAPPEN.
The true God's law doesn't need any help from 3rd parties to be enforced.. The true God's law is being enforced automatically..
We just need to accept what God has planned.. whether it's willingly or unwillingly.. happily or angrily.. it's up to us...
Because sometimes what God has planned is not in accordance to our own wishes.. -
The most undisputed facts about Quran are
- Considered to be authored by God by some while some others consider it was authored by human.
- Originally it was written by Human or group of humans somewhere in the middle east region.
The rest are 'subjective' in nature and can be disputed..
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And He hasn't stopped "talking" or should I say "communicating"..
Most of the time He's talking not in language at all... but in events and symbols..
We just need to be sensitive enough to listen..Incorrect.. God is the manifestation of all things and not some holy book..
Whatever God has PLANNED / Agrees it will HAPPEN and whatever God Reject / Not Planned it will NOT HAPPEN.
The true God's law doesn't need any help from 3rd parties to be enforced.. The true God's law is being enforced automatically..
We just need to accept what God has planned.. whether it's willingly or unwillingly.. happily or angrily.. it's up to us...
Because sometimes what God has planned is not in accordance to our own wishes..How do one know the concept of GOD? How do one know the oneness of God is to accept that HE is distinct from everything else? How do one know the concept of GOD if there is no one to teach that GOD exist and that it would not suit GOD s majesty and glory to associate the limited attributes of HIS creation to HIM because HE is not restricted in any way, while HIS creation is. Yes you are absolutely correct, GOD, is a great manifestation of HIS mercy, but how do you now that? HOW Jafar? Do you think all this while it is the wisdom of mankind that this world functions. If you do not KNOW the concept of GOD HOW COULD YOU accept or rather how do you know that it is GOD who planned.. whether it's willingly or unwillingly.. happily or angrily?
If it is not that GOD talk to his Prophets in HIS level thereafter he sent his prophet to talk to us in our level so as to teach, us, mankind, explain HIS decrees, HIS own words and wisdom, thru them. HE show us thru them what we do not know. That is where civilization comes into being. It is GOD who made civilization for mankind by sending HIS Prophets and Messengers. It is not at our own free will. Mankind were at ground zero. Once the message had been finalised thats it! No more Prophets only messengers.
Its human nature to defy things which they are not aware, if suppose GOD would have not sent HIS prophets and a HIS Books, than it will be a different scenario, it will be the opposite of what Jafar had said. The Quran 06157
Nor can you say ?If the Book had been sent down to us, We would have been better guided than they were.?
When GOD send messengers and HIS books, you deny them, and if GOD do not send messengers and HIS books, you will ask, why GOD do not send messengers and HIS books as proves? So this how you will twist and turn, beat around the bush....
The people of Musa saw miracles and yet they denied the GOD in many occasion. Why Jafar?
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Yes you are absolutely correct, GOD, is a great manifestation of HIS mercy, but how do you now that? HOW Jafar? Do you think all this while it is the wisdom of mankind that this world functions. If you do not KNOW the concept of GOD HOW COULD YOU accept or rather how do you know that it is GOD who planned.. whether it's willingly or unwillingly.. happily or angrily?
How? You should ask Him directly...
From my own personal experience it is just a matter of 'realization'..
For you things might be different.. for others things might be different as well..
Everybody has their own role to play...It is not at our own free will. Mankind were at ground zero.
On the absolute level, there is no such thing as 'free' will..
Once the message had been finalised thats it! No more Prophets only messengers.
Nope the message is not yet 'finalised'.. if finalized here you mean no more revelation..
Revelation is a continuing process up until now, and instead of "stopping" it's actually "accelerating"..I don't want to go into "what is prophets or messenger" because truly it doesn't matter, the revelation is what truly matter.. the channel doesn't matter..
Its human nature to defy things which they are not aware, if suppose GOD would have not sent HIS prophets and a HIS Books, than it will be a different scenario, it will be the opposite of what Jafar had said.
The tradition or notion of "Prophets" only exist on a specific culture among human..(Semites / Israelites)
The majority of human doesn't even have this conception of "prophet" or "Gods spokeperson".
And or see themselves as the "Chosen one" and / or "Most enlightened" compared to the other human.What would happen to those without the notion of "prophets"? Well see the humanity all around you now.. they're doing ok, progressing.. rapidly as time progress... they are billions in number... and growing..To some extent those who doesn't have any notion of "prophet" (or holy books) fare better than those who do..
When GOD send messengers and HIS books, you deny them, and if GOD do not send messengers and HIS books, you will ask, why GOD do not send messengers and HIS books as proves? So this how you will twist and turn, beat around the bush....
The people of Musa saw miracles and yet they denied the GOD in many occasion. Why Jafar?
Ergh... billions of those who didn't even have any notion of "God's Spokeperson" or "God's Book" never asked for one.. to them the entire notion of "God has wrote a book" is totally ridiculous..
In the same manner as you find the concept of "God's developed a holy computer application" ridiculous...Regarding Musa, I wasn't even born when that even (supposed) to happen...
I really can't tell what truly happened.. perhaps it never happened at all... perhaps he never exist at all..
So I cannot comment merely on speculation or "based on the story of others"..Last but not least.. God "speaks" through conscience.. never lose your conscience, side with it at all time..
God's revelation hasn't stop...
