IDOL WORSHIPPING IS THE NEW ISLAM

reel

Nothing new.
Majority of the sectarians are in denial about the fact that their Islam is connected to worshiping the Prophet. From outside, it is crispy clean.
Just google muslims worship muhammad
These are the things you will find

So Basically Muslims worship Muhammad? Apr 10, 2016
Why do Muslims worship Muhammad? Oct 3, 2015
Why do Muslims worship Muhammad the pedophile? Feb 11, 2015
Why do Muslims worship Muhammad and not "God"? Aug 31, 2007
from answers.yahoo.com

Man_of_Faith

I think a lot of you believe in a pilgrimage to a cubic building in the desert, potentially walking multiple times around it. This too is idolatry by these measurements. Have you ever considered that?

Be well
Amenuel

Bender

I think a lot of you believe in a pilgrimage to a cubic building in the desert, potentially walking multiple times around it. This too is idolatry by these measurements. Have you ever considered that?

Be well
Amenuel

Hi,

I think there is nothing wrong with walking multiple times around a cube or kissing a stone, it has only no real benefit.

hawk99

welcome to the forum Loulou!

There is no such thing as a "new" Islam nope

THIS GUY IS TELLING PEOPLE TO KISS THE BLACK STONE. CLICK THIS YOUTUBE LINK FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND SKIP TO 1100
I'M HORRIFIED. NO WONDER THE SO CALLED MUSLIM WORLD TODAY IS BEING SHUNNED BY GOD. AFTER THIS VIDEO I DON'T KNOW HOW I CAN CALL MYSELF MUSLIM, A WORD THAT'S BEING SHARED WITH THESE IDOL WORSHIPPERS. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT THESE PEOPLE WERE LIKE BEFORE GOD BROUGHT DOWN THE QURAN?? THEY MUST HAVE BEEN THE BIGGEST IDOL WORSHIPPERS IN HUMAN HISTORY!! I'M SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW?..

I wonder why so many forum members worry about others (negative)?
On judgment day will you do the same?

Believe it or not there will always be people that are astray even right here
in this forum!

I think there is nothing wrong with walking multiple times around a cube or kissing a stone, it has only no real benefit.

Who's to say, an experience that means nothing to you may be profound for someone else!

Man_of_Faith

It is idolatry though, you believe that the ritual of worshiping the building will somehow bless you. Holy buildings or structures are quite common in Pagan religions too in which particularly people have to do things to appease the deity. Doing these things will bless people in return even if the chores would appear meaningless to any rational being.

Personally I find idolatry to be a very silly point though as if it would matter, but yet it would appear primitive to walk around a building several times. There are many points in classical religions I wonder about actually. One is that there appears to be no real purpose of the god creating the world except to be worshiped and let these worshipers dwell in some kind of meaningless paradise, or let the failers of the hidden agenda burn forever in some kind of fiery place called Hell as of that would have any kind of purpose in the long run. Torturing those in a kind of Hell forever just shows the primitive nature of that god as it has emotions (instinct) of revenge. Quite primitive god that does things which have no purpose. In that case the wiser god would simply just destroy those failing souls.

Simply logical questions.

Be well
Amenuel

Jafar

It is idolatry though, you believe that the ritual of worshiping the building will somehow bless you. Holy buildings or structures are quite common in Pagan religions too in which particularly people have to do things to appease the deity. Doing these things will bless people in return even if the chores would appear meaningless to any rational being.

Yup it is idolatry..

These idols are common to be found in Pagan religions

Holy buildings (Kabba, Hajjar Aswad, Holliest of Hollies, Pyramids)
Holy items / amulets (Zamzam water, Muhammad's Beard / Hair, Holy Grail, Crosses, Star of David)
Holy (dead or fictitious) people (Muhammad, Sahaba, Jesus, Saints, Krishna)
Holy living people (Priest, Clerics, Ulema, Mullah, Pope, Rabbis)
Holy mantra (Millions of it)
Holy books (Quran, Gospel, Tanakh, Book of the dead) <-- Only specific to be found in semitic religion

Hizbullah

Quran 1590-91

As We sent down on those conspirators, those who have made the Quran into a form one cannot comprehend.

And conspirators created the hadist and threathened the so called Muslims that they are to adhere the hadith because its close to DIVINE AND that it is not permissible to take instructions directly from the Quran. The so called divine Ahadith explain the Quran? Can you believe that???

Bender

It is idolatry though, you believe that the ritual of worshiping the building will somehow bless you.

I do not think it's idolatry. Most of them do that because they think Allah ordered them to do that or they think that's the way to get closer to Allah.

And we all do things to get somehow a blessing from God or even from others, only our methods are different. As long as our rituals/methods are not evil (harming ourselves and others) there is nothing wrong with them.

Bender

Yup it is idolatry..

These idols are common to be found in Pagan religions

Holy buildings (Kabba, Hajjar Aswad, Holliest of Hollies, Pyramids)
Holy items / amulets (Zamzam water, Muhammad's Beard / Hair, Holy Grail, Crosses, Star of David)
Holy (dead or fictitious) people (Muhammad, Sahaba, Jesus, Saints, Krishna)
Holy living people (Priest, Clerics, Ulema, Mullah, Pope, Rabbis)
Holy mantra (Millions of it)
Holy books (Quran, Gospel, Tanakh, Book of the dead) <-- Only specific to be found in semitic religion

You forgot

Holy scientists (Einstein, Darwin)
Holy books/theories (The Origin of Species, Relativity, Standard Model)
Holy systems (Democracy, freedom of speech, atheism)
Holy artists (Elvis, 2pac)
Holy clothes (Nike, Armani)

Loulou

Yup it is idolatry..

These idols are common to be found in Pagan religions

Holy buildings (Kabba, Hajjar Aswad, Holliest of Hollies, Pyramids)
Holy items / amulets (Zamzam water, Muhammad's Beard / Hair, Holy Grail, Crosses, Star of David)
Holy (dead or fictitious) people (Muhammad, Sahaba, Jesus, Saints, Krishna)
Holy living people (Priest, Clerics, Ulema, Mullah, Pope, Rabbis)
Holy mantra (Millions of it)
Holy books (Quran, Gospel, Tanakh, Book of the dead) <-- Only specific to be found in semitic religion

Why on earth would you think that Holy Books is idolatry? How can you associate the Quran with idolatry? Is this not a Muslim (Quranist) website? I'm confused.

Loulou

It is idolatry though, you believe that the ritual of worshiping the building will somehow bless you. Holy buildings or structures are quite common in Pagan religions too in which particularly people have to do things to appease the deity. Doing these things will bless people in return even if the chores would appear meaningless to any rational being.

Personally I find idolatry to be a very silly point though as if it would matter, but yet it would appear primitive to walk around a building several times. There are many points in classical religions I wonder about actually. One is that there appears to be no real purpose of the god creating the world except to be worshiped and let these worshipers dwell in some kind of meaningless paradise, or let the failers of the hidden agenda burn forever in some kind of fiery place called Hell as of that would have any kind of purpose in the long run. Torturing those in a kind of Hell forever just shows the primitive nature of that god as it has emotions (instinct) of revenge. Quite primitive god that does things which have no purpose. In that case the wiser god would simply just destroy those failing souls.

Simply logical questions.

Be well
Amenuel

Are you not a Muslim? It doesn't seem like you believe in the Quran from what you're saying about God, Heaven and Hell. I agree with the Hajj rituals being idolatry btw.

Man_of_Faith

Loulou,

I trust Quran, I do, but not the flimsy interpretations of it. What I wrote is true. Ask yourself if it is sane for a deity to let someone burn in a fire with no ever changing condition but just torment a failure forever, does that sound like an intelligent god? In that case I am more intelligent, and also more merciful.

The more logical solution would either be to wipe their memory and place them once more in the environment of testing (i.e. here on Earth) or simply delete their souls as they are deemed failures. I would not deal with petty revenge which would not lead to anything productive.

And failing people bring their own doom because their deeds will mark (burn) their souls, but obviously the merciful god would allow a sudden change of heart and redemption, if the condition of that soul would change and the prospect eventually grew mindful enough to start changing.

Jafar has a point in saying idolatry of a "Holy book" for when people become completely absorbed in a text even though the words in it would stem from Rabb (God). People tend to more idolize the fact and condition, and interpretations, that it is a holy book than for what the scripture actually is, and they seem to blindly accept whatever is claimed to say including what I wrote previously, despite it going against sound logic.

When you revere an alleged interpretation of a scripture against logic and rationality you could say you idolize something. And if one cannot use their intelligence to dismantle that then they risk getting stuck in teachings that avail them nothing, which lets them miss essential parts of what they must do and why. And correct teachings which could be found in a proper interpretation of Quran can on top of that be found within elder and alternative writings of the past, so Quran is not the only source of information possible albeit properly interpreted Quran would be a complete manifest of the case we are here right now, our origin and what we are, and what must be done for salvation, e.g. a remedy and solution to the trapped condition within a primate called Homo sapiens.

You asked me whether I am A Muslim and I would answer that I am Muslim, but that is in the eye of the beholder of course although I would boldly say I am. What others say matters little and it is evident in what I do and say, for the one who can realize that. Muslim is a key condition for any test subject in this world and the word essentially says that one is sound, has a clarity of mind and body rather than imbalance where the body causes the soul to be enslaved in which the body usually is not kept sound and also causing its accompanying soul to be a terrible mess too.

It is good that you have been wise enough to not believe in the Hajj rituals despite that they are right in there in the sectarian interpretations of Quran, showing that you at least have a level of critical thinking. You must also realize that you might believe in a very worldly portrayal of Rabb too, in which the Rabb is degraded to the same level as a lowly human affected by their body Homo sapiens. This Rabb is not much different from the angry Pagan deities that fearful superstitious people have to desperately appease unless they bring doom over them. Rabb is much more advanced than this, a superior Being. The worldly portrayal is also a reason why many people are atheists because the so-called spiritual leaders cannot bring sound arguments that thinking souls will buy. That is a shame actually because atheism is not a solution, either, because it brings the attention off that this is a test environment and not to be indulged, and that you belong with an all-encompassing Rabb and the world just like a distraction, a contradiction or illusion.

Be well
Amenuel

Loulou

Loulou,

I trust Quran, I do, but not the flimsy interpretations of it. What I wrote is true. Ask yourself if it is sane for a deity to let someone burn in a fire with no ever changing condition but just torment a failure forever, does that sound like an intelligent god? In that case I am more intelligent, and also more merciful.

The more logical solution would either be to wipe their memory and place them once more in the environment of testing (i.e. here on Earth) or simply delete their souls as they are deemed failures. I would not deal with petty revenge which would not lead to anything productive.

And failing people bring their own doom because their deeds will mark (burn) their souls, but obviously the merciful god would allow a sudden change of heart and redemption, if the condition of that soul would change and the prospect eventually grew mindful enough to start changing.

Jafar has a point in saying idolatry of a "Holy book" for when people become completely absorbed in a text even though the words in it would stem from Rabb (God). People tend to more idolize the fact and condition, and interpretations, that it is a holy book than for what the scripture actually is, and they seem to blindly accept whatever is claimed to say including what I wrote previously, despite it going against sound logic.

When you revere an alleged interpretation of a scripture against logic and rationality you could say you idolize something. And if one cannot use their intelligence to dismantle that then they risk getting stuck in teachings that avail them nothing, which lets them miss essential parts of what they must do and why. And correct teachings which could be found in a proper interpretation of Quran can on top of that be found within elder and alternative writings of the past, so Quran is not the only source of information possible albeit properly interpreted Quran would be a complete manifest of the case we are here right now, our origin and what we are, and what must be done for salvation, e.g. a remedy and solution to the trapped condition within a primate called Homo sapiens.

You asked me whether I am A Muslim and I would answer that I am Muslim, but that is in the eye of the beholder of course although I would boldly say I am. What others say matters little and it is evident in what I do and say, for the one who can realize that. Muslim is a key condition for any test subject in this world and the word essentially says that one is sound, has a clarity of mind and body rather than imbalance where the body causes the soul to be enslaved in which the body usually is not kept sound and also causing its accompanying soul to be a terrible mess too.

It is good that you have been wise enough to not believe in the Hajj rituals despite that they are right in there in the sectarian interpretations of Quran, showing that you at least have a level of critical thinking. You must also realize that you might believe in a very worldly portrayal of Rabb too, in which the Rabb is degraded to the same level as a lowly human affected by their body Homo sapiens. This Rabb is not much different from the angry Pagan deities that fearful superstitious people have to desperately appease unless they bring doom over them. Rabb is much more advanced than this, a superior Being. The worldly portrayal is also a reason why many people are atheists because the so-called spiritual leaders cannot bring sound arguments that thinking souls will buy. That is a shame actually because atheism is not a solution, either, because it brings the attention off that this is a test environment and not to be indulged, and that you belong with an all-encompassing Rabb and the world just like a distraction, a contradiction or illusion.

Be well
Amenuel

If God's message (the Quran) works against your "sound" human logic, then perhaps it's not for you. The Quran is a complete message to be accepted as a whole. According to the Quran itself, you don't get to pick and choose.

"So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the Day of Resurrection they will be sent back to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do."

So you see, one either submits himself humbly to God's message by believing in it completely, or one simply turns his back on it for whatever reason. Perhaps for highly intelligent, introspective people such as yourself, believing in the Quran completely is the best test of your FAITH.

Amenuel, sometimes the hardest thing to see is what's right in front of us... Islam simply means submission. You either submit yourself completely (intellectually, spiritually, emotionally, etc.) to what God has revealed in the Quran or you don't. Again, ISLAM is the keyword here.

Please read the verse from the Quran below very carefully.

"To each of you We prescribed a law and a method.
Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation .
But to TEST you in what He has given you; so race to good.
To Allah is your return all together, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ."

Finally, remember that God created you. Whatever intelligence, logic, reason and rhyme you posses is engineered by God. You can never surpass him in any way, shape, or form. Our brains are so small and limited, we will never ever comprehend fully God's revelations to mankind. Not even close! God therefore made his messages really simple and easy for mankind. Good vs Evil. Heaven vs Hell. Earth and Sky. Night and Day. Sun and Moon. Punishment vs Rewards. I mean, God even references a simple little mosquito in one of the verses!

"Surely Allah is not ashamed to set forth any parable- that of a mosquito or any thing above that; then as for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord, and as for those who disbelieve, they say What is it that Allah means by this parable He causes many to err by it and many He leads aright by it! but He does not cause (any) to err by it except the transgressors,"

Assalamu Alaikum,

-Loulou

Jafar

You forgot

Holy scientists (Einstein, Darwin)
Holy books/theories (The Origin of Species, Relativity, Standard Model)
Holy systems (Democracy, freedom of speech, atheism)
Holy artists (Elvis, 2pac)
Holy clothes (Nike, Armani)

i've mentioned holy books / theories, which cited Quran, Gospel, Bible among the example.. that also include any other book which one considered as flawless / holy, Harry Potter anyone?
Or idea.. Flat Earth, 7 layer of heaven, judgement day, heaven and hell.

I add more

Holy Nationality (Swedish, American, Syrian, Egyptian, Palestine etc..)
Holy Ethnicities (Arabs, Jewish, White, Black, Spanish / Latin)
Holy Football Club (Spurs, City, MU, Liverpool)

And i'm truly truly expecting this to come in as future form of idol..

Holy Software.. A computer software written by God.
Holy eBook.. Finally god "sent down" something in pdf format..

The common attitude of "idolators" was best described by this fellow..

?If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.?
Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi

Why on earth would you think that Holy Books is idolatry? How can you associate the Quran with idolatry? Is this not a Muslim (Quranist) website? I'm confused.

Yes it is a form of idolatry.. to consider an item made by human hand as flawless and godly...
The attitude of people on this forum can be an evidence for that..

Loulou,

I trust Quran, I do, but not the flimsy interpretations of it.

See? Don't trust Quran or any other holy book.. trust God..

Jafar has a point in saying idolatry of a "Holy book" for when people become completely absorbed in a text even though the words in it would stem from Rabb (God). People tend to more idolize the fact and condition, and interpretations, that it is a holy book than for what the scripture actually is, and they seem to blindly accept whatever is claimed to say including what I wrote previously, despite it going against sound logic.

God speaks to you all directly through your conscience.. listened to it very carefully..
When you see something from any sources (including "holy book&quot which is not inline with your own conscience..
Always side with your own conscience.. don't ignore it..

mmkhan

THIS GUY IS TELLING PEOPLE TO KISS THE BLACK STONE. CLICK THIS YOUTUBE LINK FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND SKIP TO 1100

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VtPOVusbtg

I'M HORRIFIED. NO WONDER THE SO CALLED MUSLIM WORLD TODAY IS BEING SHUNNED BY GOD. AFTER THIS VIDEO I DON'T KNOW HOW I CAN CALL MYSELF MUSLIM, A WORD THAT'S BEING SHARED WITH THESE IDOL WORSHIPPERS. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT THESE PEOPLE WERE LIKE BEFORE GOD BROUGHT DOWN THE QURAN?? THEY MUST HAVE BEEN THE BIGGEST IDOL WORSHIPPERS IN HUMAN HISTORY!! I'M SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW?..

Peace,

That person is not showing any Saudi conspiracy against Islam but he is promoting Ali.
He is surely a shia, who is far far far away from Islam.
So cool down and take it easy.

And surely circling round and kissing stones are idol worshipping.

parvez_mushtaq

Peace,

................

And surely circling round and kissing stones are idol worshipping.

Assalamualaikum Bro
I may agree with you regarding kissing of black stone( Alahamddulliah , i completed my hajj last year without kissing the black stone ) but how circling around kaba will ever become idol worship .can you elaborate your explanation ,bro

Man_of_Faith

Loulou,

What I was saying was asking you whether it is sane to read something that goes against basic logic.

And you are wrong about multiple things in your post. The word islam does not mean submission and furthermore submitting your intelligence to something unsound would be very unwise, would it not?

Finally, remember that God created you. Whatever intelligence, logic, reason and rhyme you posses is engineered by God. You can never surpass him in any way, shape, or form. Our brains are so small and limited, we will never ever comprehend fully God's revelations to mankind. Not even close! God therefore made his messages really simple and easy for mankind. Good vs Evil. Heaven vs Hell. Earth and Sky. Night and Day. Sun and Moon. Punishment vs Rewards. I mean, God even references a simple little mosquito in one of the verses!

As long as you speak of brains and the physical then sure you will never be prosperous.

I agree that the sectarian interpretation of Quran is simple because it comes from simpletons too.

Anyway, I suppose that you are not receptive nor interested in expanding your horizons so I will let you dwell in your little realm. I would however advise you to open your mind to what it is you put your faith in and also reflect on what I wrote. But if this is the god you prefer so go with it.

Be well
Amenuel

mmkhan

Assalamualaikum Bro
I may agree with you regarding kissing of black stone( Alahamddulliah , i completed my hajj last year without kissing the black stone ) but how circling around kaba will ever become idol worship .can you elaborate your explanation ,bro

Wa alaikum Salaam brother,

Kaaba is nothing but another stone I don't think Allah ask us to do such things and He feels proud or something.
When I did my I got a chance to rest my face on the wall of Kaaba and as soon as I did so I felt that I am doing sajda in front of a stone idol in a hindu temple. MaazAllah! That was so horrible. May Allah forgive me for that.

After I came back Allah showed me that hajj has nothing to do with this rituals. Hajj means debate. You can study the topic of Ibrahim where you can see the derivatives of the word hajj is used many times including the story of king.

Brother have you ever wonder why 7 times circling around the building same as hindus circle around fire 7 times during marriage and circle around tulsi tree 7 times early in the morning?

Why there is still a moon and a sun made of gold inside the building kaaba? Why there are so many pots hanging inside the kaaba, the same pots that hindu saints still use today?

That 7 times circling around it cannot be verified from alQuraan.

If you study this matter, inshaAllah you will find more and more proofs that this is not hajj.

9107 and 9108 clarifies that we are not allowed to stand in such masjids. Everyone believes that there were 360 idols inside the kaaba and it was removed at the time of victory. But still we are not allowed to stand in such masjids but we are only allowed to stand on those masjids whose foundation was on taqwa from day one.

May Allah protect us from all types of shirk and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Bender

Assalamualaikum Bro
I may agree with you regarding kissing of black stone( Alahamddulliah , i completed my hajj last year without kissing the black stone ) but how circling around kaba will ever become idol worship .can you elaborate your explanation ,bro

Hi Parvez,

So what do you think parvez, those people who are doing this kissing are they challenging Allah or are you challenging Allah?

Rituals are just rituals, I strongly believe that we are not going to be questioned about our rituals by Allah as long as they are not harming.

Loulou

i've mentioned holy books / theories, which cited Quran, Gospel, Bible among the example.. that also include any other book which one considered as flawless / holy, Harry Potter anyone?
Or idea.. Flat Earth, 7 layer of heaven, judgement day, heaven and hell.

I add more

Holy Nationality (Swedish, American, Syrian, Egyptian, Palestine etc..)
Holy Ethnicities (Arabs, Jewish, White, Black, Spanish / Latin)
Holy Football Club (Spurs, City, MU, Liverpool)

And i'm truly truly expecting this to come in as future form of idol..

Holy Software.. A computer software written by God.
Holy eBook.. Finally god "sent down" something in pdf format..

The common attitude of "idolators" was best described by this fellow..

If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.
Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi

Yes it is a form of idolatry.. to consider an item made by human hand as flawless and godly...
The attitude of people on this forum can be an evidence for that..

See? Don't trust Quran or any other holy book.. trust God..

God speaks to you all directly through your conscience.. listened to it very carefully..
When you see something from any sources (including "holy book&quot which is not inline with your own conscience..
Always side with your own conscience.. don't ignore it..

Jafar, you wrote "Yes it is a form of idolatry.. to consider an item made by human hand as flawless and godly...
The attitude of people on this forum can be an evidence for that.."

But, it's not idolatry if I consider and believe the Quran is by God and only God. And, I am NOT worshiping the Quran like an OBJECT. The Quran is God's ~GUIDANCE~ for mankind. Without the Quran or Torah, how would you know to worship ONE GOD and not multiple Gods? How would you know that the Moon isn't GOD for example? How would you even know that Idolatry is unacceptable and very bad?

I believe the Quran is from God so it's not idolatry to me to seek guidance from it. The Quran is understandably idolatry to you because you believe human beings wrote it. I can't help you there if that's you truly believe. To each his own. It's called faith for a reason. Either you believe the Quran is from God or you don't. There are several verses in the Quran where God is challenging those like you who don't believe that the Quran is from God

Say If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another. (Quran 178

Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful. (Quran 1113)

And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful. (Quran 223)

May Peace Be Upon You,

Lana -)