Is it marriage or fornication?
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Peace both of you,
Fritz, are you familiar with this site by chance? http//www.muhammadiyah.org.sg/about-us/about-muhammadiyah-association/our-core-values
That's the only place I've been able to find "Hablum-minallah." It seems to be explained not as something that's directly from Qur'an, but a concept that can be derived from the Qur'an.
Tawheed and Iman permeate through every aspect of our lives. As a matter of principle, our lives are not dichotomised into the "worldly" and the "religious" as such. The Belief in the Unity of Allah is manifested in all facets of life including matters relating to living in a secular country, our role in a multi-religious society and our duties as ordinary citizens. Islam encompasses both "Hablum-minallah wa Hablum-minannas" (the relationship between Man and Allah and relationship between Man and Man).
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Peace Comrox
Yes it is true as a concept from the Qur'an, and the words simply means "relationship between man and Allah", and "relationship between man and man".
3112 They are struck with humiliation wherever they are encountered, except for a rope from God and a rope from the people .
for example this is a contradiction.. how can we explain this.
hablum minallah is the relationship between man and Allah. No one can interfere this relationship and it is personal. Absolute freedom.
1099-100 And had your Lord willed, all the people on the earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make them believe? And it is not for a soul to believe except with the permission of God. And He lets taint those who do not comprehend.
hablum minannas is the relationship between man and man. This is the juridiction of man and for social order.
460-61 Did you not note those (muslim) who claimed they believed in what was sent down to you and what was sent before you? They wanted to seek judgment using evil, while they were ordered to reject it. It is the devil who wants to lead them far astray. And if they are told "Come to what God has sent down and to the messenger," you see the hypocrites turning away from you strongly.
548-49 And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, affirming what is between your hands of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and if God had willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so race to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute. And judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires, and beware lest they divert you away from some of what God has sent down to you. If they turn away, then know that God wants to inflict them with some of their sins; and many of the people are wicked. Is it the judgment of the days of ignorance that they seek? Who is better than God as a judge for a people who comprehend?
the difference between private law and public law.
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Fritz, the word is Hablu not hablum, it owuld be hablun indeterminate nominative, hablan accusative, hablinn genitive and hablu nominative determinate, habla, accusative and habli genetive.
When you wrote hablum I was thrown off what you might mean.
I hav yet to look at it concerning the question which is the title of the post, since at first sight I have not been able to see the connection you are making.
Salaam
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private law between the individual and Allah, absolute freedom and no one can interfere this relationship.
1829 And say "The truth is from your Lord, so let whoever desires believe, and whoever desires reject."
public law between the society and you, it is for the masses and for public order.
2190 And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not aggress, God does not love the aggressors.
2191 And kill them wherever you encounter them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the recompense of the rejecters.
2192 And if they cease, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Peace
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Marriage is public law because it involves other than you (private). It is the relationship between man and man.
6010 O you who believe, if the believing females come emigrating to you, then you shall test them. God is fully aware of their belief. Thus, if you establish that they are believers, then you shall not return them to the rejecters . They are no longer lawful for one another. And return the dowries that were paid. And there is no sin upon you to marry them , if you have paid their dowries to them. And do not keep disbelieving wives , and ask back what dowries you paid. And let them ask back what dowries they had paid. Such is the judgment of God; He judges between you. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
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Fine, but still youhave not stated who is a believer and who is not for civil effects.
On the other hand a de facto marriage is a marriage all right. It may be illegal, it may whatever but it is a marriage and the issue of that marriage does exist, what greater proof of marriage is needed.
Salaam
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I did
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608584.msg389278#msg389278
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608584.msg389280#msg389280and the true disbelievers are
Disbelievers
Those who ignore God and His Messenger (truth) by trying to make a distinction between them, saying, "We believe in the one (truth), but we discredit other (truth)," and want to pursue a path in between (schism), it is they who are truly unbelievers.
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On the other hand a de facto marriage is a marriage all right. It may be illegal, it may whatever but it is a marriage and the issue of that marriage does exist, what greater proof of marriage is needed.
I believe Allah is the only God that can make marriages valid.
And there are no other gods can make marriages valid except Allah. For one to believe there is other than Allah that can make marriages valid has committed shirk.
8129 And you cannot will anything except if it is also willed by God, Lord of the worlds.
53 Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have approved submission as the system for you.
Peace
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It is impossible for me to list all the prohibitions in this forum, neither there is a country that follows the Quran.
404 None dispute in the revelations of God except those who have rejected.
2530 And the messenger said "My Lord, my people have deserted this Qur'an."
So what left is between the individual and Allah.
5105 O you who believe, you are responsible for yourselves ; none who are misguided can harm you if you are guided . To God is your return, all of you, and then He will inform you of what you have done.
It is a great sin, and shirk.
448 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.
Peace
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Of course, otherwise it is adultery.
Believers
No, by your Lord, they will not believe until they make you judge in what they dispute with each other, then they will not find in their souls any animosity for what you have decided, and they will comply completely.
Three conditions
- They make you judge in what they dispute with each other
- They will not find in their souls any animosity
- They will comply completely
385 And whoever follows other than submission as a system, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.
Peace
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never will be..
2883 Such will be the abode of the Hereafter; We reserve it for those who do not seek prestige on the earth, nor corruption; and the ending will be for the righteous.
3196-197 Do not be deceived by the success of those who have rejected in the land. A brief enjoyment, then their abode is Hell. What a miserable abode!
but for the individual believers and small communities.
Peace