Fasting in North Pole
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O Children of Israel, remember My blessings that I had blessed you with, and fulfill your pledge to Me that I may fulfill My pledge to you, and reverence Me alone. And believe in what I have sent down, affirming what is with you, and do not be the first to disbelieve in it! And do not purchase with My revelations a cheap gain, and of Me you shall be aware. And do not confound the truth with falsehood, nor keep the truth secret while you know. And hold the contact prayer, and contribute towards purification, and kneel with those who kneel. Do you exhort the people to do good, but forget yourselves, while you are reciting the Book? Do you not comprehend? And seek help through patience and through the contact prayer. It is a difficult thing, but not so for the humble. The ones who conceive that they will meet their Lord and that to Him they will return.
I believe this is not a religious ritual, but about soul's integrity.
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In its basic form, a "ritual" is simply a regular observance, and one that does not refer to a necessity, e.g. eating. The most common use of the word today is associated with religion
Some people brush their teeth and floss daily, in a set manner, and this could be classed as a "ritual".
"Rituals" are not bad per se.
For us, the key point is if a "ritual" is grounded in reality, i.e. there is evidence/reasoning behind it. And if we are talking Quran based islam, then evidence/reasoning from Quran.
A question to ask if examining "rituals" as per Quran
Does the so-called "ritual" result in what it says will happen?If it doesn't then its possible your understanding of that practice is incorrect, or your application is, or both.
Now, a minority claim "rituals" do not exist in Quran but the evidence/reasoning is frequently poor. For example "salat", commonly taken to mean "Traditional Muslim prayer", non-ritualists will point out the flaws with it as per Quran (quite rightly), but then incorrectly conclude "hey that means no regular/timed observance exists, regardless of the meaning of salat". A classic example of "throwing the baby out with the bath water".
This phrase points out a logical fallacy. The assumption is that if something is bad and it belongs to a group, then everything in that group must be bad. A related expression might be that ?one bad apple spoils the bunch.? When applied to this example, the phrase would express the idea that discarding all of the apples would waste any good apples that were in the bunch.
Not only this, they are forced into re-interpreting many verses, which invariably involve throwing cross-reference/logic/grammar in the bin.
Since this is an error in reasoning and bias, it is often fruitless to discuss with such a person due to their faulty reasoning/bias. Generally speaking, correcting an incorrect fact is easier than getting a person to think correctly and eliminate bias.
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A question to ask if examining "rituals" as per Quran
Does the so-called "ritual" result in what it says will happen?If it doesn't then its possible your understanding of that practice is incorrect, or your application is, or both.
The actual meaning of Salat and all the rituals in five pillars of Islam is related and should be able to provide the solution for this problem, human or economic slavery, and freedom. This is the reality of life.
852 Like the behavior of the people of Pharaoh, and those before them; they rejected the signs of God, so God took them by their sins. God is Strong, severe in punishment
4029 Pharaoh said "I am showing you that which I see, and I am guiding you in the right path."
4354 He thus convinced his people, and they obeyed him; they were a wicked people.
2079 Thus, Pharaoh misled his people and he did not guide.
854 Like the behavior of the people of Pharaoh, and those before them; they denied the signs of their Lord, so We destroyed them by their sins, and We drowned the people of Pharaoh; all of them were wicked.
Not only this, they are forced into re-interpreting many verses, which invariably involve throwing cross-reference/logic/grammar in the bin.
Maybe that is the right path.
75.19 We are responsible for its interpretation.
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The story of Pharaoh, Qaroon and Hamad is about slavery through capitalism, cronyism, corporatism, creditism, materialism and consumerism.
2876 Qaroon was from among the people of Moses, but he betrayed them. And We gave him such treasures that the keys thereof were almost too heavy for the strongest person . His people said to him "Do not glee, for God does not love the gleeful."
2877 "And seek with the provisions bestowed upon you by God the abode of the Hereafter, and do not forget your share in this world, and do good as God has done good to you. And do not seek corruption in the land. God does not love the corrupters."
2878 He said "I have attained all this only because of my own knowledge." Did he not realize that God had annihilated before him generations that were much stronger than he, and greater in riches? The transgressors were not asked about their crimes.
2879 Then he came out among his people draped in his ornaments. Those who preferred this worldly life said "Oh, if only we were given similar to what Qaroon has been given. Indeed, he is very fortunate."
2880 And those who were blessed with knowledge said "Woe to you! The reward from God is far better for those who believe and do good work. And none attains it except the steadfast."
2881 We then caused the earth to swallow him and his mansion. He had no group that could protect him against God; nor would he be victorious.
2882 And those who wished they were in his place the day before said "Indeed it is God Who provides or restricts for whoever He chooses from among His servants. Had it not been for the grace of God towards us, He could have caused the earth to swallow us as well. We now realize that the rejecters never succeed."
2883 Such will be the abode of the Hereafter; We reserve it for those who do not seek prestige on the earth, nor corruption; and the ending will be for the righteous.
https//c7.staticflickr.com/8/7757/27113072774_9367028a06_m.jpg
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The traditional translations say like this "whoever among you witness al-shahr so let him fast in it. But there is no "in" in the verse. It is more likely as "whoever among you witness al-shahr so let him yasum it". Why "in" has to be inserted in translations?
I'm not arguing for or against this... I'm just wondering
Does arabic work in the same way english works? When something happens within a time span, does arabic use a word/preposition "in" in such constructions? I mean, different languages convey stuff in different ways and the syntax may differ quite some. Is it actually strange that there is no "in" when talking about fasting within the span of the month? Just wondering. -
I'm not arguing for or against this... I'm just wondering
Does arabic work in the same way english works? When something happens within a time span, does arabic use a word/preposition "in" in such constructions? I mean, different languages convey stuff in different ways and the syntax may differ quite some. Is it actually strange that there is no "in" when talking about fasting within the span of the month? Just wondering.The ayat 2185 gives with reference to so why no for in the same ayat. SO in Quran word/preposition "in" is used for something happening within a time span.
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i was thinking about verse 184 of chapter 2.
its very clear in the verse..
people who are travelling or ill .. travelling in the sense of North south pole as well.. they are expempted
and third option is also there people who cannot feel easy for getting hungry and face difficulty they can ransom a poor ..
the third option is very suitable for everyone who is feeling difficulty.. i myself keep fasting forever in my life but last year nd this year i m going for third option , because God is clearly saying if u feel difficulty you can complete count on other days or ransome the poor... here in most part of europe fasting take from 18 to 21 hours which will distrub sleeping pattern eating pattern and 21 hours of hungriness.. its something difficult so better to feed a poor..
peace
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i was thinking about verse 184 of chapter 2.
its very clear in the verse..
people who are travelling or ill .. travelling in the sense of North south pole as well.. they are expempted
and third option is also there people who cannot feel easy for getting hungry and face difficulty they can ransom a poor ..
the third option is very suitable for everyone who is feeling difficulty.. i myself keep fasting forever in my life but last year nd this year i m going for third option , because God is clearly saying if u feel difficulty you can complete count on other days or ransome the poor... here in most part of europe fasting take from 18 to 21 hours which will distrub sleeping pattern eating pattern and 21 hours of hungriness.. its something difficult so better to feed a poor..
peace
I thought the verse says that only those who are ill or traveling can make up the fast? I don't get the impression that those who are having difficulty fasting can also make it up.
I consider (ill and traveling) and (difficulty) to be treated separately in the verse, but maybe others feel differently.
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I thought the verse says that only those who are ill or traveling can make up the fast? I don't get the impression that those who are having difficulty fasting can also make it up.
I consider (ill and traveling) and (difficulty) to be treated separately in the verse, but maybe others feel differently.
2184 A few number of days; however, if any of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if only you knew.
there are two catagories,,
1 ill or travelling
2 one who face difficulty ,,and two solutions complete the count on other days or feed the poor,
God knows best,
peace
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thanx wakas for the links,,
this issue is not so hard to understand as it got lot of options,,
the real challange is the time of the month, couple of days ago , an idea come in to mind , about night of decree , i have a theory what if the night of decree not occur every year , it got some specific timing may be after every 100 years or 500 years or every 19 years or every 27 years any time span which is in the knowledge of God only... about ramadhan its just a month what every calender have and this night happen on this month ,
ramdhan = every year
but night of decree is not on every year of ramdhan,,but again timing of locating ramadhan as per historical records the events that occured on ramadhan are always found on december or early january but again hisorical records are not accurate..and most of the people are allergy to the history which we can only find in hadith books..
about jesus birth historians still not unanimous about exact date...
about the people who are on north and south pole they simply like exempted , as they did not witness the month same as on mars or moon or on international space station,,
all things can be adjusted apart from exact timing of year..
can you have any article on that brother wakas,, i mean some closing understanding... or we are going on wrong findings regarding fasting..
peace
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Salaam ImranKhawaja
Al-Quran is an advice for people and guidance for muttiqeen as such it has to be clear and easy to understand. Whoever approaches it should be able to get advice and/or guidance. Brother from your post following questions popped up in my mind. Please reflect...
about the people who are on north and south pole they simply like exempted , as they did not witness the month same as on mars or moon or on international space station,,
How can one witness the month?
all things can be adjusted apart from exact timing of year..
Should we adjust Quranic commandments or follow them?
Peace
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Salaam ImranKhawaja
w salam ,, brother
Al-Quran is an advice for people and guidance for muttiqeen as such it has to be clear and easy to understand.
no doubt about it.
How can one witness the month?
i ask from experts same question, and they reffer me the link, see the link of brother wakas..
Should we adjust Quranic commandments or follow them?
Peace
brother i think u misunderstood here,,
everything can be adjusted means ,, regarding ramadhan, for example the option of ransom, and feeding the poor , and timings of different zones .. if we go for option to feeding poor, then case already solved on that end,, we dnt need to worry about l timings or exempting or time zones..
i did not mean to adjust commandments of quran or anything else apart from the topic and it was about ramadhan,,
what we cannot adjust is the exact timing and any finding regarding this,,,which is casuing trouble,, i mean its for the people who want to go for option to keeping fast...
do u have any thing to say regarding this?
peace..
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what we cannot adjust is the exact timing and any finding regarding this,,,which is casuing trouble,, i mean its for the people who want to go for option to keeping fast...
I see the following distinction in this matter.
When there are options or alternatives or exceptions laid out, then they are laid out as part of the instruction, openly.
However, I'm not convinced by the idea that we should go for alternatives to fasting when the instruction itself doesn't make sense. Being ill, travelling or finding it otherwise difficult has nothing to do with that that traditional fasting timing system breaks down and becomes inapplicable during parts of the year in parts of the world.If I'm not travelling, and I'm not ill, and I don'd find it difficult to fast, then what should I do when the instructions (traditional interpretation) simply don't cater for real life (the sky, also created by God)? It's not a matter of difficulty, it's a matter of impossibility.
Also, it would be insane to not fast just because of the light of the sky. What has the light of the sky (or the moon for that matter) to do with fasting? What is the connection? Why can we only fast if we witness the moon and if the light of the sky is right?
There is something off. This is not a case of applying exceptions. This is a case of a system that doesn't work. It is N/A.
Peace
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peace,
can you have any article on that brother wakas,, i mean some closing understanding... or we are going on wrong findings regarding fasting..
I haven't written an article on Quranic calendar/timing system. When it comes to abstinence, 2184 Quran says
if ill/travelling one can do so in other days
if able to abstain (with the implication they choose not to for whatever reason) then they can exchange/redeem by feeding of the needy, if one volunteers better that is up to them
abstinence is better for you2185 says abstinence is for those who witness the shahr
If you happen to live in a place wherein this timing mechanism does not work (i.e. you do not witness the shahr) then it is not applicable to you - you can choose to abstain or not, or choose other days instead, or feed the needy etc i.e. do what you think is best.Quran says "give the excess" it does not state a specific amount, i.e. do what you think is best.
Quran explicitly states it does not intend hardship for us in 2185, and explicitly says one can choose other days, clearly suggesting the exact timing of your abstinence is NOT the most critical thing, it is the act of abstinence itself, hence the end of 2184 says "abstinence is good/better for you" it doesn't say "abstinence in Ramadan is good/better for you".
In fact, it could be argued the regular/timed salat done in the morning/evening of one's day (whenever the morning/evening is) sets a precedent/model that can be used for one's abstinence. See my previous post
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608586.msg389145#msg389145From my studies, Quran is a very pragmatic book, it shoots for the ideal sometimes but it allows flexibility.
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Peace
How can it be Islam when there is no consistency?
The foundation or major traits of Islam is consistency, the Sunnatullah.
Inconsistency inferred the practice of "the wicked."
Did you not note how God puts forth the example that a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches are in the sky. It bears its fruit every so often with the permission of its Lord; and God puts forth the examples for the people, perhaps they will remember. And the example of a bad word is like a tree which has been uprooted from the surface of the earth, it has nowhere to settle. God makes firm those who believe with firm sayings in the worldly life, and in the Hereafter. And God misguides the wicked, and God does what He wishes.
482 Do they not reflect on the Qur'an? If it was from any other than God they would have found in it many a discrepancy.
3543 You will not find any change in the way of God, and you will not find any bypass to the way of God.
4085 But their belief could not help them once they saw Our might; such is the way of God that has been established for His servants; and the rejecters were then totally in loss.
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@ brother wakas thanx ur post make my concept more clear,, regarding exact timings.. God bless you.
@brother zulf.. you are right something is missing ... or rituals are changed due to violations by early historians, or the concept of rituals are changed the original way God knows best.. peace
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2185 says abstinence is for those who witness the shahr
If you happen to live in a place wherein this timing mechanism does not work (i.e. you do not witness the shahr) then it is not applicable to you - you can choose to abstain or not, or choose other days instead, or feed the needy etc i.e. do what you think is best.Peace br Wakas,
Just to clarify, it has not to do with witnessing the shahr (in case shahr means moon/month). This is not the issue.
The issue is the instruction to fast until the white thread becomes distinguished from the black thread. The sky experiences a sundown, but after that there is never a black thread, so there is no point in time where white thread takes over from black thread. The white threat is there all the way from sun down. So the issue is that we have the start of the fast (provided that it is as the sun sets below the horizon) but no end of it. There is no dark portion of the night.
God asks us to reflect and ponder the creation, so I think this kind of observation also can tell us something about what is going on. Nature is nature. It is fixed, no flaws, it is what it is. However, this cannot be said about our understanding of religious texts.
Peace
