UNLAWFUL SEX?
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Huruf,
Irrelevant of cultural values or not the human is an animal and behaves according to instincts. Some bias may be contained in my arguments, but still women act along the lines of what I said.
Be well
AmenuelI doubt that it is 1900% cent as you say even a 50% or 25% , but the question is why? If that to you is not important then I do not know why we ar ttalking here. If it is so, according to you so just take it as it is and blame nature not women.
It is really a very cheapshot to blame women. Intellectually
it is like Saying the big bad wolf would come and get you only it is not the big bad wolf but the big bad witch. Nothing changes much.Salaam
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peace
Timotheus peace be with you and the mercy of God. 971The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Those - Allah will have mercy upon them. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise. do not lose faith in finding a believing partner, only those who disbelieve lose faith in the Most Merciful. Have faith, God will give you what you deserve, if you are truthful. God says in Quran that those who already call themselves muslim will be more willing to listen, so look there, even if they do not have a clear understanding, and have many mistakes, as i am sure you do too, If God wills, He will bring you both to the truth and affirm it in your heart.
As for the perverted, let them speak, how will they be recognized if they are not allowed to speak. From the abundance in the heart the mouth speaks.
Comrox if the key to successful marriage is interacting with the opposite sex, then why has the west the highest divorce rate, and they cannot even talk to each other.
The key to a successful marriage is patience, but that is a virtue only of the believers. Be truthful, obedient to God, and accepting of whatever God give us as partner. Economically and physically speaking, not spiritually, because if the partner becomes a disbeliever, there shall be a divorce.
May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
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peace
Timotheus peace be with you and the mercy of God. 971The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Those - Allah will have mercy upon them. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise. do not lose faith in finding a believing partner, only those who disbelieve lose faith in the Most Merciful. Have faith, God will give you what you deserve, if you are truthful. God says in Quran that those who already call themselves muslim will be more willing to listen, so look there, even if they do not have a clear understanding, and have many mistakes, as i am sure you do too, If God wills, He will bring you both to the truth and affirm it in your heart.
As for the perverted, let them speak, how will they be recognized if they are not allowed to speak. From the abundance in the heart the mouth speaks.
Comrox if the key to successful marriage is interacting with the opposite sex, then why has the west the highest divorce rate, and they cannot even talk to each other.
The key to a successful marriage is patience, but that is a virtue only of the believers. Be truthful, obedient to God, and accepting of whatever God give us as partner. Economically and physically speaking, not spiritually, because if the partner becomes a disbeliever, there shall be a divorce.
May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
Peace,
I do hope in god, and pray as it says in the quran for spouse and children that may be a comfort and a joy, Sometimes it does feel like i am sitting out here on my own though, haha.. i know this is not the case though.
you said this "God says in Quran that those who already call themselves muslim will be more willing to listen"
where is this in the quran? i am unaware of his. and sometimes it seems like they are the ones who are least tolerant to hear, even verses from the quran they claim to believe in..
However i am new, and relatively inexperienced with Islam, i have only realy met a few other sunnis face to face. alot of christians seem willing to listen, and we can have some good discussions, alot of others, however are not so tolerant.. i remember being absolutely shocked when a in-law threatened to get his shotgun out when i told him i was a muslim /
you also said
Comrox if the key to successful marriage is interacting with the opposite sex, then why has the west the highest divorce rate, and they cannot even talk to each other.
maybe i am misunderstanding, but does this staement not answer its self? they are divorcing because there are not interacting with the opposite sex.. i.e not talking to each other.
Peace, and alhamdullilah, very good reminder
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Peace wrkmmn,
Comrox if the key to successful marriage is interacting with the opposite sex, then why has the west the highest divorce rate, and they cannot even talk to each other.
What do you mean by "they cannot even talk to each other"?
On opposite sex interaction, this is what I said
...Young men also need to learn how to have healthy interactions with women. How are you supposed to understand that people are more than their bodies before you speak with them? I've read so many stories of Muslim men and women who marry, and they're so naive. Neither of them understand how to communicate or deal with problems in a relationship, because they've never interacted with the opposite gender before.
The main problem in marriages I've witnessed is in the part I bolded above a lack of communication and/or an inability to deal with problems, for whatever reason.
Of course there is not one thing that makes marriages work or don't work... But I believe communication is the foundation for a lot we experience in life. Good communication emcompasses a lot of what we need listening, empathy, patience, knowing what is the right response to say to people, being able to clearly communicate your needs in a productive manner, understanding your relationship to other people, knowing your own communciation weaknesses, being able to recognize when to apologize, addressing difficult situations or problems as soon as they arrive, etc...
I linked the topics (communication, martial failure, and opposite sex interaction) together, perhaps unjustly, because I feel that if I had spent my life never interacting with men and then I was expected to marry a complete stranger, I wouldn't know what to do with them. I wouldn't know what to expect from them. I would only understand about men what people had told me, if anyone had told me anything at all. If you spend your life interacting with women, you're only going to understand women. If you spend your life interacting with men, you're only going to understand men. Men and women do handle communciation and problems differently. The separation is something I can imagine being engraved into peoples' mind as us vs. them, and that can't be healthy. Islamically, I feel that some people may understand marriage only as far as role expectations goes - The husband and wife both love and care for each other; the wife cooks, cares for children, and obeys her husband; the husband is the financial provider and the leader of the household. They, and many other people, only seem to see what marriage is supposed to be, and don't recognize the many steps it takes to get there.
People need social interaction to build their communciation and social skills. People need opposite sex social interaction to understand and experience the other sex. Healthy social experiences with all kinds of people is needed for good communication development, which is needed for all kinds of relationships and life experiences.
Life is getting more complicated. We have a lot of technology now. We're a changing society. All this technology has both harmed and helped us. Besides that, role are now blurred, finances are an issue for many, and suddenly people have so many choices. People also have a lot of expectations surrounding married life and their spouse. Communication is needed now more than ever.
The key to a successful marriage is patience, but that is a virtue only of the believers. Be truthful, obedient to God, and accepting of whatever God give us as partner. Economically and physically speaking, not spiritually, because if the partner becomes a disbeliever, there shall be a divorce.
May God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.
If patience is only what believers have, and patience is the key to a successful marriage, why do successful marriages exist between atheists, for example? ???
Where do you derive your understanding that when a partner becomes a disbeliever, a divorce must take place?
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The divorces occur primarily due to our attitude nowadays. Divorces are seen as socially acceptable whereas in the past you would be looked down upon if you divorced and you would also regard yourself as more failed if you did. Our societies were more religiously connected where the church had more influence, even over those who did not have any faith in God as it became the culture too.
My grandmother and grandfather on my mother's side were married for about 60 years actually until death and they were not particularly religious and believers that way.
Many people divorce simply for the reason they are tired of each other and have lost that loving feeling, but I think that in many cases they are being careless to what they have. A marriage tends to change into a less sensual relationship after some time and people have the image that a marriage has to remain hot and heavy. People think the marriage is futile and then they divorce.
Be well
Amenuel -
Our societies were more religiously connected where the church had more influence, even over those who did not have any faith in God as it became the culture too.
This is the situation in many, many countries of the world, whether they are e.g. catholic or muslim.
People blame religion, when it is actually culture that is using religion for substance.
Real faith is many times very rare to be seen in religious societies. -
Zulf,
Everything related to religion is not bad. The sense of connection between man and husband is leading to better order in my opinion. Our start of disbelief towards the sacredness of the marriage is societally detrimental and the children are those hurt the most when parents divorce/separate.
I do however take that you are married by God when you spend time with a partner and particularly have sexual intercourse with them. No ceremony required. One should not take lightly on a separation even if they are not married.
Be well
Amenuel -
Zulf,
Everything related to religion is not bad. The sense of connection between man and husband is leading to better order in my opinion. Our start of disbelief towards the sacredness of the marriage is societally detrimental and the children are those hurt the most when parents divorce/separate.
I do however take that you are married by God when you spend time with a partner and particularly have sexual intercourse with them. No ceremony required. One should not take lightly on a separation even if they are not married.
Be well
AmenuelPeace,
do you believe that a vow before god is required for marriage? i believe it is a personal commitment to god, for each individual, i dont believe in ceremony etc, but i am of the opinion that this verse;
421 And how can you take it when you have become intimate with each other, and they have taken from you a solemn covenant.
talks of a solemn/serious pledge/commitment
im also curious as to your, and anyone elses views on theese verses
423 Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and the sisters of your father, and the sisters of your mother, and the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, and your foster mothers who suckled you, and your sisters from suckling, and the mothers of your women, and your step-daughters who are in your lodgings from your women with whom you have already consummated the marriage; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and those who were in wedlock with your sons who are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
424 And the independent from the women, except those maintained by your oaths; the book of God over you; and permitted for you is what is beyond this, if you are seeking with your money to be independent, not for illicit sex. As for those whom you have already had joy with, then you shall give them their dowries as an obligation. There is no sin upon you for what you agree on after the obligation. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
425 And whoever of you cannot afford to marry the independent female believers, then from those maintained by your oaths of the believing young women. And God is more aware of your faith, some of you to each other. You shall marry them with the permission of their parents, and give them their dowries in kindness - to be independent - not for illicit sex or taking lovers. Until they become independent, any of them who comes with an immorality shall have half of what is the punishment for those who are independent. This is for those who fear hardship from among you. But if you are patient it is better for you, and God is Forgiver, Merciful.i am curious what you think of theese, as they talk about obligations such as dowries, and permission from parents.. and if (and obviously you provided only a little information on your view, so i am unsure) this is the case, as you say, is multiple partners permissible, like where are the boundaries, in your view?
Also the Quran seems to clearly talk about boundries for divorce, or remarriage after the death of a husband..also 2433-34, if there is no definite marriage as such and we can have sex without a vow, etc, then why would god be saying some might not have the means to marry, and chould remain chaste/pure untill they do
also 55 where it mentions not taking secret lovers, and also again the dowrie.
This is more of an open question, not nessessarily directed to you, and i would like to hear anyones view on it.. i know very little about marriage in Gods system, and i would certainly like to learn.
Peace
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Timotheus,
It is true that in order to be intimate, have sexual interaction, then the couple should have decided to keep together. The intercourse will establish the marriage bond whether you utter anything or not. After that it is too late. If you utter anything this is to confirm to each other that you will stick together forever after.
This is a reason why in elder Semitic lore, a man is forced to marry a woman he has laid with. In some cases the father of the daughter has become furious. No matter if someone says anything or not they couple is bound.
Be well
Amenuel -
the decision of marriage should be taken after much thinking and observing.. its the matter of life infact ... emotions are so strong it makes u what you you, it will make you becoming what you want to be or dnt want to be...
human being is sensitive creation. I dnt know how many in you have breakup with their ex but its a painful thing and it will make u suffer after along time , suddenly ideas of past memories comes in the mind and it will disturb you a lot..
I advise to all of you please get married very wisely becoz we make a promise infront of God not to do bad with oneanother and most of the cases we forget our very first promise and then God is in between this matter he will surely let you taste what u dnt know..
peace
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Timotheus,
It is true that in order to be intimate, have sexual interaction, then the couple should have decided to keep together. The intercourse will establish the marriage bond whether you utter anything or not. After that it is too late. If you utter anything this is to confirm to each other that you will stick together forever after.
This is a reason why in elder Semitic lore, a man is forced to marry a woman he has laid with. In some cases the father of the daughter has become furious. No matter if someone says anything or not they couple is bound.
Be well
AmenuelPeace, the idea of 'together forever' is a fairytale..
i am seriously concerned by some of your views, but for you are your deeds and for me are mine.
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It is pretty common in thinking that the marriage bond is permanent.
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divorce really disturb the mechanism of peacefulness , specially when u have kids
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It is because the mechanism of peacefulnes is disturbed that hre i divorce, not the ther way around.
It is no favour to the children to live in the middle of hotility or ill treatment.
The Qur'an no only dmits divorce but says that God will provide for both
4.130. But if they separate , Allah will enrich each from His abundance. And ever is Allah Encompassing and Wise.
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Timotheus,
Allows is not the same as saying it is any good. Marriage is a permanent union so one cannot "jump around" among partners as desired, and breaking the union is obviously not an optimal scenario. It would require misconditions to be acceptable by God such as abuse towards a woman in the relationship. A marriage is nothing to be taken lightly and if you think so I suppose you might consider what you yourself find rational. Divorce is failure in all cases, but it might be a necessary evil in the case where abuse has occurred and the positive impact of divorce outweighs the negative.
Be well
Amenuel -
Divorce is the proper way of ending a matrimonial relationship. God does not formulate a single objection to that. All He does is inruct that it must be done in all fairness and loyalty and He provides for it wihout pointing to guilt.
It is surprising how some people tend to disparage against divorce as if it was a sin or a whim or something shameful while in the Qur'an there are instructions to solve problems within marriages but there is not comment negative for divorce at all, and as we have seen God has no rebukes for the divorcees but, quite the opposite, promises his provision for both of them. He does not seem to be as much offended by divorce as some societies which seem to be very upset by divorce but can put up with far more revolting things.
May be God knows that the people who go through it are far mor in need of encouragement than of criticism.Salaam
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I know what you mean, huruf. It is also seldom an easy thing to go through a divorce if one feels this is a necessity.
Be well
Amenuel -
Peace
comrox
Where do you derive your understanding that when a partner becomes a disbeliever, a divorce must take place?
your words tell me that you are not even Muslim, Peace woman, I do not seek the ignorant, and God dislikes idle talk.Timotheus
you said this "God says in Quran that those who already call themselves muslim will be more willing to listen" where is this in the quran?
3053And you cannot guide the blind away from their error. You will only make hear those who believe in Our verses so they are Muslims(submitted ones). However, you have to understand that there are some that have submitted(muslims) to God in obedience through the Torah from the Jews(very few, they are cursed), and from the Nazarenes(which many interpret as christian). Check, my post True christians and jews according to Quran.maybe i am misunderstanding, but does this statement not answer its self? they are divorcing because there are not interacting with the opposite sex.. i.e not talking to each other.
in the west we interact with the opposite sex since we are born, and for many sex is like eating, from around the age of 13. So, if they have the highest divorce rate is not for lack of interaction between sexes. But because their relationships begins always begin acting/lying to each other, and when they get tire of acting, they show their real self, and they divorce. How can they have a good communication if everything is lies. They are people that live by their desires, and their desires constantly change, thus, marriage is not for them.Peace.