Jews and Christians: Believers or not according to Quran? Confused

[Adam_The_Warner]

Alper,

566 And if they had upheld the Torah and the Gospel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and from beneath their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but most of them only do evil.

Groetjes,

Oussama

[Adam_The_Warner]

chrisrians ,jews, muslims, majoosi, hindu,japanese, require to beleive in one supreme being and day of judgement and they must need to do righteous things, thats the minimum requirement to b a person which is favored by God.

i think its a reason behind this verse 262

so that nobody get scared or find his forefather path illogical by just lluck of having birth in non quranic fammily. becoz we know everybody cant be one religion, its God if he wish he create every person submittor but he creates group to test everybody.

moreover muslims cant claim quran is just for muslims, quran is from universal God for all the nations on this planet of earth. so it applies to everybody but atleast , everybody need to search for their own way including religious path as well just once in a life, is it so hard? so if somebody unaware or did not struggle for finding a path from God alone , he just never get a destination favored. and probably will definately lost from track of nature.

peace.

319 The system with God is submission, and those who received the Book did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects the revelations of God, then God is swift in judgment.

[Man_of_Faith]

If Christians do not see Jesus as God's son then they are "believers" according to the traditional interpretation of Quran.

Jews only to need to follow the teachings better it seems.

Both must perform the prostration ritual though according to the usual interpretation.

[Adam_The_Warner]

If Christians do not see Jesus as God's son then they are "believers" according to the traditional interpretation of Quran.

Jews only to need to follow the teachings better it seems.

Both must perform the prostration ritual though according to the usual interpretation.

We all have faults and shortcomings brother.

May God cure the children of Adam from commiting Idolatry.

[Novice]

I'm sure you're all familiar with the following beautiful uniting verse
Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompe nse from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

So this verse gives me the impression that the only requirements for salvation is to believe in God, the Last Day and lead a righteous life. (Which makes it sound very easy to find a suitable partner.. they only have to believe in these three things).

(

The Arabic word is translated as believe. The root letters for this word are The meanings of this root are trust and security/safety

..... 2196...... When you are safe......

..... 681....which of the two parties has more right to be in peace?.......

26162 I am a trustworthy messenger to you.

......16112.......Allah gives an example There was a town, secure and content.....

Arabic words are derived from their roots and the meaning of a root should reflect in the meaning of its derived word. Could learned people here make it clear how the root gives the meaning of believing rather than peace, security and trust?

[Man_of_Faith]

It does not, it means trust always. When you amin someone you have faith in them, i.e. confidence, they give you security.

Be well
Amenuel

[Timotheus]

It does not, it means trust always. When you amin someone you have faith in them, i.e. confidence, they give you security.

Be well
Amenuel

peace, i think both faith and belief are not ideal translations, as a-m-n is more, security, confidence, trust, as you mentioned.

here from dictionary.com the definition of belief

verb (used without object), believed, believing.

to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so

verb (used with object), believed, believing.

to have confidence or faith in the truth of (a positive assertion, story, etc.); give credence to.

to have confidence in the assertions of (a person).

to have a conviction that (a person or thing) is, has been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given situation

to suppose or assume; understand (usually followed by a noun clause)

Verb phrases
6.
believe in,
to be persuaded of the truth or existence of
to have faith in the reliability, honesty, benevolence, etc., of

and faith

noun

confidence or trust in a person or thing

belief that is not based on proof

belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion

belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.

a system of religious belief

the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.

the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.

Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

as we see, while there may be some similar ideas, i dont think either are ideal definitions..

here is from project root list

Alif-Meem-Nun = become/feel safe/secure, state of security/safety, trust, become quiet/tranquil in heart/mind, become free of expectation of evil or free of an object of dislike/hatred, promise/assurance of security/safety, become trustful/faithful/confident, to believe/acknowledge it, manifestation of humility/submission.

you can check here, i did not want to post the whole content as it is quite long, this is the interpretation of the root word

http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm , click alif, and scroll or search Alif-Meem-Nun

it also links to extensive references, but again they are lengthy.

in my understanding the concept in the quran is one of 'feeling secure/confiding in/trusting'

in my understanding then, amanuw (often translated believers) in the context of the quran, are those who put their trust fully in god, and feel secure/safe confiding in him
what i mean by the context, is that mostly in the quran its refering to god as the object of your trust..

quite often though i find it very hard to translate words from arabic, usualy because of the distortion of english.. i.e trust, faith, belief. theese have, in my opinion, almost been watered down by common (mis)usage to the point where they loose much of their meaning.

a-m-n is much stronger in concept that what most people think faith etc to be. its total security, complete trust.

also man of faith, i know we have breifly discussed in the past, how you were interested in the meanings/concepts of individual letters in arabic or semetic languages in general (i cant recall exactly, correct me if i am mistaken) I would be interested if you have any understanding related to this you could share in regards to a-m-n root, and its letters?

Peace.

[Man_of_Faith]

Faith is okay as translation. If you say "have faith in" it means you trust a person, i.e. your confidence in this person. As you might have noticed I avoid the word believe in favor of faith, and that I even did in naming my user in this forum. Faith appears to have a stronger connotation on confidence than believe has. My user name practically means that I am full of confidence.

Refer to Darth Vader when he tells an imperial officer "I find your lack of faith disturbing". It primarily means your confidence in anything being possible.

You are right that believing is not optimal as it often reflects that you think something is right but not certain, supposing so, etc.

There is an issue with the language of English as well as some other European languages such as Swedish that the word believe means both "to suppose", " think so" and to have confidence in. In Arabic that is not an issue and Amin means "to have confidence, security in" always. There is another (root) word that means "to suppose", "to believe (weaker)", in Arabic which is Zan and you can look it up in a lexicon if you doubt me.

To think (believe - weaker) God exists is not sufficient to fit the amin word and you cannot be a Mumineen if you are not absolutely certain.

Be well
Amenuel

[Novice]

Thanks MoF. The whole belief system changes if we use true meaning of this root. When I try to convey it to people around me they usually refuse to discuss saying do you know more than all the scholars.

[Timotheus]

Faith is okay as translation. If you say "have faith in" it means you trust a person, i.e. your confidence in this person. As you might have noticed I avoid the word believe in favor of faith, and that I even did in naming my user in this forum. Faith appears to have a stronger connotation on confidence than believe has. My user name practically means that I am full of confidence.

Refer to Darth Vader when he tells an imperial officer "I find your lack of faith disturbing". It primarily means your confidence in anything being possible.

You are right that believing is not optimal as it often reflects that you think something is right but not certain, supposing so, etc.

There is an issue with the language of English as well as some other European languages such as Swedish that the word believe means both "to suppose", " think so" and to have confidence in. In Arabic that is not an issue and Amin means "to have confidence, security in" always. There is another (root) word that means "to suppose", "to believe (weaker)", in Arabic which is Zan and you can look it up in a lexicon if you doubt me.

To think (believe - weaker) God exists is not sufficient to fit the amin word and you cannot be a Mumineen if you are not absolutely certain.

Be well
Amenuel

Peace, thankyou for sharing, i agree.

i do think that certainty is a huge part of the concept of amin, which is sometimes not quite there in the common understanding of words like faith.
It is difficult to translate between completely different languages, but i think that the concept is easy to understand and clear when you look into the root words.

i think there is quite often misunderstanding of certain key concepts in the quran, and have been thinking, prehaps to start a thread discussing all of the key concepts, such as what is iman, salat, deen etc, with relevant info on the arabic, as to me it seems that the quran can be easily misunderstood if people dont understand theese key concepts..

[Man_of_Faith]

Confidence in or trust are the best candidates for "amin" .

You may or may not accept the Bible including the Gospels, but if you take a look at the translations the translators avoided to translate the word amen and Jesus is frequently seen uttering "amen amen I say to you...", but obviously Jesus means " Be sure, be sure I say to you...". It is actually not harder than that.

And when ending a prayer with amen you simply mean you are putting your confidence that you will live up to what you prayed, e.g. if you prayed "May I not succumb to evil" it means "let that be the certainty/reality" and I have confidence it will come true (be so). I would doubt it is any wrong in saying amen, it is just a one word expression. I would say it is an expression you say to bolster your faith after praying meaning just "be sure!". After all, faith is about having strong confidence. "I am sure I can be strong by Rabb". Amin is also singular verb in that form with Arabic not necessitating any pronoun added.

I would also not claim amin is any necessity when praying, but not wrong like some people say here on the forum because "it is not written explicitly in Quran". But you have the right talking a language, have you not? And the word is part of the language with a meaning and saying amin at the end means something linguistically. Saying it without any understanding why and just in a ritualistic sense would be vainly done though.

Be well
Amenuel

[Man_of_Faith]

i think there is quite often misunderstanding of certain key concepts in the quran, and have been thinking, prehaps to start a thread discussing all of the key concepts, such as what is iman, salat, deen etc, with relevant info on the arabic, as to me it seems that the quran can be easily misunderstood if people dont understand theese key concepts..

Yes this is true, but I should not be the one participating there since we will not have any agreement on terms because my understanding is differing from Islam's doctrine and it causes something else.

Take salat for example, my research tells "follow" is the correct definition from ancient lexicons. For example, in 2458 the passage says "Min qabl salateh al-fajr" and "Min qabl salateh al-esha" and my conclusion has been that the passage simply uses salat grammatically to say "after the following of the sunrise" (paraphrased "before (the event of) the sunrise&quot. Possibly the qabl could also imply "approach of the sunrise cycle/event (following)" since approach is one of possible lexical definitions.

Salat is also not referring to definitive in 2458 as it has no AL, i.e. it is not the focus of the actual linguistic conveyance. It can thus not "the prayer of the morning". It would appear linguistically dull.

Obviously my translations need one to revise the whole traditional rendition, but as you may know I question the whole understanding of Classical Arabic based on certain discoveries.

I would say someone just handpicked salat and made it a ritual because it was convenient.

Aqum al-salat in my eyes means "follow straightly" or "Go straight". Qum is used in chapter 1 "ahadana al-sirat al-mustaQEEM" and means straight there. A perfect translation I have worked on for some time. Firm could also be the possible choice for Qum and it could be that the phrase can only be paraphrased "hold on to it firmly" (as in to continue). Compare that to my explanation in 2458.

Be well
Amenuel