Trying to gain perspective
-
I've visited different sites, different forums, and have read some of two different Qur'an translation to English, but I get so put off by so many things in the Qur'an, hadiths, and opinions/thoughts of other Muslims I've encountered online. What I've read has been so judgemental towards people who are not a cookie cutter version Muslim; that is someone who's straight, male, prays 5x a day, and is completely perfect and sinless. I get so confused, eventually I give up.
I just want to have open debate and dialogue. I want to discuss and think. I don't want to feel like God is this wrathful, vengeful being who punishes you for everything little thing you do "wrong".
-
Peace upon you sla27 and welcome!
I encourage you to put your questions and concerns forward on this forum and, God willing, you will receive some beneficial responses from some of the highly informed members here. I hope you find the discourses engaging, fruitful, and cordial.
My wife says similar to you sla27, she does not like the verses of punishment/hell in the Qur'an; however, I would contend that no one "likes" these verses necessarily, they are frightening to say the least, and they are meant to be so. I am a teacher sla27, and we have a concept in teaching called pedagogical theory/learning theory, or the different ways material can be taught so that different types of students can learn effectively, as not all students learn in the same manner. I will try to list here some of the teaching methods of God in the Qur'an that I have observed and attach them to this modern academic discipline. http//edutechwiki.unige.ch/en/Learning_theory
You can imagine with a book like the Qur'an, God will need to speak to every type of individual in every different time, context, and culture, including you today in 2016 (Sociocultural Theory). It will also need to address people that learn in different ways. Some people learn through logic and reasoning (Cognitive Theory), thus the Qur'an discusses many times the natural phenomena of our world (physical/biological laws), while asking you to "yatafakaroon" - "reflect" on their nature and reason. Other people learn through emotions and feelings , thus the Qur'an often asks people to feed the poor, protect the orphans, and defend the oppressed (Social Practice/Liberatory Autonomy). Still others learn through reward and enticement (Motivational Theory), thus the Qur'an speaks of Paradise and the many luxuries it may entail. Finally, to return to the punishment/hell verses, there are individuals who learn through "tough love" (Behaviorism), thus the Qur'an speaks of punishments and deterrents.
You sound like a person who learns through observation, critical thinking, logic/reason, and morality. Guard these qualities, and approach the Qur'an (and the world) with them, I am sure you will not be lead astray. Know that God is Compassionate and Merciful. You know what is right and wrong, do your best, and God willing your efforts will not be in vain.
I apologize on behalf of the other Muslims you have encountered previously who may have left a bad taste in your mouth, I wish I could offer you your favorite drink to remove it.
Welcome to Free Minds sla27!
Salaam,
Clash.
-
Thanks for the replies.
Clash, you're sweet to apologize for others, but you're not responsible for their thoughts and actions. I appreciate what you said, though.
Conrox, thanks for the link. I took a look through the forum. It was nice to see different opinions.
-
I've visited different sites, different forums, and have read some of two different Qur'an translation to English, but I get so put off by so many things in the Qur'an, hadiths, and opinions/thoughts of other Muslims.
Have you read the Monotheist group's version of the Quran. Its my favorite translation. I have read many Quran translations that have commentary and other additions into the Quran and can be slightly bias based on the translator and I find that I lose my focus with those versions. TMG version doesn't include all that extra stuff. If you haven't tried that version I strongly recommend it. I tend to always give those copies away when I feel that God is working on that persons heart compared to other translations and versions.
-
I've visited different sites, different forums, and have read some of two different Qur'an translation to English, but I get so put off by so many things in the Qur'an, hadiths, and opinions/thoughts of other Muslims I've encountered online. What I've read has been so judgemental towards people who are not a cookie cutter version Muslim; that is someone who's straight, male, prays 5x a day, and is completely perfect and sinless. I get so confused, eventually I give up.
I just want to have open debate and dialogue. I want to discuss and think. I don't want to feel like God is this wrathful, vengeful being who punishes you for everything little thing you do "wrong".
The Quran teached me that God is the Most Merciful, Most Graceful.
So, you should stop listening to people and start following the Word of God instead.
-
I just want to have open debate and dialogue. I want to discuss and think. I don't want to feel like God is this wrathful, vengeful being who punishes you for everything little thing you do "wrong".
bravo bravo Vengeful and wrathful God is illogical, given all of the events happened in accordance to His will and plan...
welcome welcome
-
bravo bravo Vengeful and wrathful God is illogical, given all of the events happened in accordance to His will and plan...
welcome welcome
Indeed.
-
Agreed, GOD is most gracious and most merciful and those are repeat themes in the Quran.
A wrathful, vengence filled GOD is not accurate of his description. GOD I'm sure can be those things but his nature or personality ( for lack of a better word) is peace, mercy and positive.
-
God is order as opposed to chaos. Salam means to be sound, and it implies that a person has a working talent for logic. But most people who adhere to religious belief skip that logic in favor of dubious sources despite it is illogical and factually incorrect.
One is that a Jinn is made of fire, but that is simply not possible according to the design of the world. Fire is not a substance but a visual effect due to a chemical reaction in a matter. Ancient people who conjectured did not know this, but you should in the light of EMPIRICAL science, i.e. what can be observed and reproduced in a live experiment.
What is most appreciated by Rabb (God) is intelligence and wisdom, and at that most people fail miserably. Life is a test wherein you should show your capability of mind and ability to process what you experience with your own spirit of your mind rather than just echo what misguided people of the past have said.
Semitic religious leaders of the past have been most interested in power and worked hand in hand with the authoritative king, and it is shown in the way religious scriptures are interpreted. Quran is an example spurring towards hatred to those who do not join this Islam which is only a hijacked word that is more an adjective than a label. It is an interpretation full of inconsistency and illogical statements against reason and you follow it blindly despite what it says?
You cannot have friends of people who claim themselves to be called by another label. Is that the sect you like to belong to?
This is not an attempt by me for you to abandon Quran but for you to reassess it and seek what the failing link is. Is not something fishy in what it conveys? Do not seek to be apologetic by excuses to yourself but go to the bottom of the problem.
The problem is Quran's SEVERE misinterpretation and not the writing itself. You should look at it objectively, disconnect your cultural adherence to it and see how immensely primitive the God looks in it. Is that truly your perfect and intelligent God? Its God according to it seems VERY worldly and can that be a sincere portrayal of Rabb?
Think about it seven (several) times and then contemplate and meditate a little while.
Be well
Amenuel -
I've visited different sites, different forums, and have read some of two different Qur'an translation to English, but I get so put off by so many things in the Qur'an, hadiths, and opinions/thoughts of other Muslims I've encountered online. What I've read has been so judgemental towards people who are not a cookie cutter version Muslim; that is someone who's straight, male, prays 5x a day, and is completely perfect and sinless. I get so confused, eventually I give up.
I just want to have open debate and dialogue. I want to discuss and think. I don't want to feel like God is this wrathful, vengeful being who punishes you for everything little thing you do "wrong".
Are you Dutch?
Who told you that we should pray 5 times a day? Did the Quran? I doubt so.