Reducing land from its outlying borders ? If Flat Earth real than ?
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"See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?" (Surah ar-Rad 41)
Is then Flat Earthers correct by saying that our world is like a disc and there is a ice wall surronding us?
Peace hansolo,
- What is the context of this verse?
- How do you reason when you equate an ice wall with people losing control of land? What is the link?
- Why would FEers be correct because of what people interpret a text as? (A text is a text. Then we interpret it. Reality is still however reality. Grass is green even if a religious text would say it is blue.)
Cheers
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"See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?" (Surah ar-Rad 41)
Is then Flat Earthers correct by saying that our world is like a disc and there is a ice wall surronding us?
Salaam/Peace Hansolo,
No, I think flat earthers are flatly wrong,
in how they (mis)Understand that Verse above,
and also in how they (mis)Understand the whole World/Reality around us.So, we must see the correct Understanding of that Verse above,
and the correct Understanding of the whole World/Reality around us,
first of all, now here==========
41- And do they not see that We control "the Earth"
"reducing it" (=nanqusuha) from its (polar)-ends (=atrafiha).
......... For HE is Swift in Reckoning.44- ...... So will they not see that We control "the Earth"
"reducing it" (=nanqusuha) from its (polar)-ends (=atrafiha).
......... So are they the Prevailers?QURAN TESTAMENT,
Chapter No. 13, Verse No. 41
Chapter No. 21, Verse No. 44(Oblate-Spheroid) "Reduced Earth" MIRACLE, right here now =54/49
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_idf064.html
Remain in peace/salaam.
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"See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?" (Surah ar-Rad 41)
Is then Flat Earthers correct by saying that our world is like a disc and there is a ice wall surronding us?
its depend on how you unnderstand... it.. i first time read this verse... in 2000 and i havnt got the apparent meanings... of this verse..
but now i have two understandings..
1341 Do they not see that every day on earth brings them closer to the end? For, when God judges, there is no power that could repel His Judgment. And Swift in reckoning He is!
first sense
first of all the audience of this topic is disbeleivers . and its like a sense when we say to our enemies we will reduce the land for you , in the sense of running , whrever they will run we will chase you, like dons of today.. u cannot escape and take away their money lol...
as we know persion and roman empires get crumbled from the hands of muslims in start the two bggest superpowers of that era.. so the beleivers of God are expanding day by day and for disbeleievers the land is getting stretch... the only language that is being used by more than 30 counties in arabic... comapred to internation language english which is a national language of less than ten countries...
second sense of understanding is
if you want to take that verse literally it did not prove flat earth... but after tsunami 2004 the map of earth is channged specially the areas where the core was.. like maldieves so it appears close to the land masses... but again this is just an understanding...
peace..
God bless you -
Peace Hansolo,
You're intuition about FE is correct do visit the FE threads that have been moved to OFF-topic section.
There are interesting arguments there.Although when I read this verse to me it is clearly referring to the gradual water level rising. Scientific thought is also that land is constantly being reduced by water level rising.
The Quran speaks much about the Last Day, foretelling about the mountains being blasted into dust/pulverized/levelled and the seas swelling.A point to your FE intuition is that the Quran supports this idea as it speaks of
- the earth as a plain, as a bed
- the luminaries as the sun and moon are the ones in motion for a term prescribed
- the sky is described as a structure like a roof, canopy not merely empty endless space
- On the Last Day Allah will blast the mountains and leave the earth as a level plain and you won't see in it any curvature or crookedness. (According to the heliocentric model even if you were to remove all the mountains off the earth and leave the surface of the earth level, then you would result with a perfectly smooth ball with curvature) <--contradicts the above.
- We cannot leave the earth (space travel is impossible)
pay close attention to when your Lord narrates to you about the jinn, there are many surahs in which jinn state that they tried to touch the heavens but found it filled with guards, and that they cannot escape in the earth nor by flight.
Also in surah ArRahman Allah challenges men and jinn to try and pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth if they can. - shooting stars are the projectiles being "flung/launched/pelted" at the agents who attempt to cross the sky boundary.
The Quran is filled with ayaats as evidence in support of the notion that Allah created a fixed stationary earth with a roof sky structure above it and luminaries moving in courses above it.
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1- There is a reducing at the edges of the earth. In fact, the earth is flattened at poles and bulge at equators. And this reducing still continues as it is stated in the verses.
2- The present earth is different than its first state. There has been a gradual flattening from its edges in the course of time after a process. This occurs as result of the rotation of the earth around its own axis.
thats the exact theory infact,, and its also support round earth...
how hard the flat earthers bring evidence from quran , more they are proving themself wrong... rotfl
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plain earth like bed = bed having mountains, rivers.. oceans. trees....
a plain bed that holding the gravity of water, but what i see , the river always flow downward... !
why did not water go upward.. or why did not the water at rivers on rest.... !
if i make a plain bed having mountians and then oceans. then land its will not consider as literally plain...or somebody will say me what the mess is this its not plain !
plain earth = you can see america from naked eyes if you standing at edge of spain... ! offcoarse you can use telescope if you have problem looking with actual eye sighting.... hold on a second,, i can see stars from earth which are several light years away from me my eyes can see it with the speed more than light why cant i see america even if i use telescope... !
very simple becoz telescope lens is fake and science is cheating wiith eyes.... same like we cannot leave earth these aeroplanes , sattellites are all hoax... science is cheating with us guys open your eyes... becoz giveup
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"See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders?" (Surah ar-Rad 41)
Is then Flat Earthers correct by saying that our world is like a disc and there is a ice wall surronding us?
lets assume the translation is correct
Is it then not possible for a spherical object to reduce it's outlying borders?
From which part or word of the verse did you come to the conclusion that the earth is something like a disc?
From which part or word of the verse did you come to the conclusion there is a ice wall?To understand the book I think it is important not to read more then there is.
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lets assume the translation is correct
Is it then not possible for a spherical object to reduce it's outlying borders?
From which part or word of the verse did you come to the conclusion that the earth is something like a disc?
From which part or word of the verse did you come to the conclusion there is a ice wall?To understand the book I think it is important not to read more then there is.
Likewise
From which part or word did you come to the conclusion that the earth is something like a sphere?
From which part or word did you come to the conclusion that the earth is rotating and revolving around the sun?
From which part or word did you come to the conclusion there is reachable space?To understand the book I think it is important not to read more then there is.
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which part of the quran say human being have five fingers...?
which part of quran say sunlight is yellow or spectrum of colors ROYGBIV?
which part of the quran say the there are seven continents ..wait i think flat earthers dnt beleive there are seven continets Lol i m skipping this question..which part of quran say bullet will kill you? wait bullet never was discovered at prophet era...
yeh but quran say this thing which covers all things, we give you eyes for seeing and mind for reason and understanding... so make Good use of it...
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Let us discourse with justice and reason how Allah Has taught us.
Whenever we discuss other matters in this forum you have he ability to ponder and reason but with this topic you plunge yourself in extreme opposition and you resort to ridicule.
What if it is the apparent truth and you are in opposition far ridiculing and arguing against the believer that is only inciting you to reason?
Indeed I fear Allah and nothing have I conveyed in this forum for which I did not feel strongly or compelled to convey of which my Lord guided me to.It was reading the Quran alone and praying for Guidance and comprehension of The Absolute Truth that brought me to investigate the creation, which led me to realizing our earth is NOT a ball.
I am grateful to Allah for His Mercy and Grace for enlightening me...yet you ridicule the truth?
If indeed I and those who believe firmly are upon the even side of the matter-How evil is the assumption of the opposition who ridicule those firm in knowledge for upholding the truth?
-How evil is their assumption that they'd rather rely on the falsehood and deception from the world and scientists altogether rather than the Truth from He Who created it?
-How evil is their neglect to thoroughly investigate and research a matter, before denying it?
-How evil is their support for deception and corruption which promotes falsehood and association of partners with The Most High?
I have little respect for those who argue without properly investigating. It would be one thing if one had a suggestion, but most are adamantly in opposition and I am quite sure they did not spend one tenth of the time they invested opposing these Great News to actually try to investigate the truthfulness of it.
Are you making good use of the eyes Allah has given you?
You look at the sky and see the sun, moon and stars rising and setting hence moving about you, yet you claim it is the earth rotating around itself and the sun! Blasphemy!(675-7
Not only are you not using the faculty of reason and sight He has given you as Mercy but you are by so doing withholding within yourself the apparent/clear Signs of His Creation being the sun moon and stars are doing exactly what you see them do moving about you.
Which of the favors of your Lord will you deny Imran?Unlike fingers or other trivial examples you brought up in your rebuttal to me brother, the Quran emphasizes on describing the creation! He describes the earth, the sun, moon, stars, sky, heavens above in precise detail. Yet again you ridicule by throwing back my questions. The Signs of God, He details them so that you may in the Hereafter firmly believe and remember!
Allah BRINGS the sun from the east! (Sun is the one moving from east not the earth rotating west!! Blasphemy!)
QURAN 2258The heavens are RAISED without pillars that you see! (How can you raise empty infinite space? YOU CAN'T!) The sky is a structure! A roof!
QURAN 132The sun and moon each RUNNING for a term appointed!
QURAN 132How does Allah describe the earth?
Ask yourself when visualizing this if I employ you to spread a substance out for me, let's say it is silly putty/ play dough,
Will you roll it up into a ball or flatten it out??!
133 The Earth is madadnaha/spread out!!(1333) madda spread
(15192) madadnh We have spread it
(5072) madadnh We have spread it out
(8433) muddat is spreadWithout the mountains and valleys and crookednesses and curvatures the earth is a level plain!!!!
(18476) brizatan (as) a leveled plain
(201063) afafan plainNot one but two sister ayaats to confirm this!
The earth is made as a bed for us!
(20535) mahdan (as) a bed
(43105) mahdan a bedAgain not one but two sister ayaats to confirm this!
If you deny these Greatest examples from Allah about our earth then go purchase a medicine ball and try sleeping on it! Record it and post a link so we all may see how ridiculous the disbelievers are!!!Why do you trust the world and all its lying deceitful disbelieving agents over the Quran? How evil do some of you decide...
Come to us brothers and stand firm!
Not only did I research the entire Quran in addition to my daily contractual contact prayers but I researched true scientific knowledge which disproves the idea the earth is in motion, demonstrate earth has no measurable curvature, theory of relativity along with gravity. In addition, common sense, vision and perspective(our senses) tell us the earth is stationary, the cosmos are in motion and the earth has no curvature!!
Therefore brother "we give you eyes for seeing and mind for reason and understanding... so make Good use of it..."
If you intend on denying Peace unto you
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Likewise
From which part or word did you come to the conclusion that the earth is something like a sphere?
From which part or word did you come to the conclusion that the earth is rotating and revolving around the sun?
From which part or word did you come to the conclusion there is reachable space?To understand the book I think it is important not to read more then there is.
Did I quote a verse and made such observations based on that verse?
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Then why do you hold those things to be true?!!
"the earth is something like a sphere"
True, because when I was a bit younger I studied a little bit about this."the earth is rotating and revolving around the sun"
Not 100% true as a spherical earth, but most likely scenario. For the same reason as above."there is reachable space"
I did not understand what you meant with this. -
"the earth is something like a sphere"
True, because when I was a bit younger I studied a little bit about this.Seriously?
So you base your conviction in denying and opposing what I and others are demonstrating in regards to the true shape of the earth which comes from reason, God-given human senses, honest research and evident clear Verses on that??Do you think what you learned in school two decades ago constitutes as rigorous research and investigation of a matter?
Why do you take for granted that you could have been indoctrinated into theories that are incorrect?
Furthermore do you deny the apparent understanding in the Quran solely based on what you studied a bit when you were younger?
"the earth is rotating and revolving around the sun"
Not 100% true as a spherical earth, but most likely scenario. For the same reason as above.Again same set of questions as above
"there is reachable space"
I did not understand what you meant with this.That when you look at the sky and the stars you are staring at empty infinite space
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Of course the Earth has gravity. Otherwise you would have trouble sticking to the ground. Gravity is a force that pulls you to whatever has gravity in this case the Earth. Without it you would be floating in midair.
As for the Earth's form I would incline on spherical and one reason is if I look towards the horizon and there is an object there it will seem to sink into the ocean the further it goes away. This is probably the origin of the superstition that there would be a dangerous waterfall if you travel too far off.
Furthermore, people seem able to travel from the Americas to Asia without running into a border.
And Quran is known to a contain lousy interpretation.
Besides that, what difference would it make no matter what shape the Earth is?
Be well
Amenuel -
Given the ontext of what is beings said before and after this aya, I tend to think that it is peaking of human experience and not of objetive data about phenomena. I should think that it is saying that as we live your lives ad possiilities and prospects become narrower. Whereas in chidlhood ad youth we might have dreamed of the whole earth being open to us as we get older the openings become fewer and fewer and fewer... our earth becomes narrower...
Salaam
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Seriously?
So you base your conviction in denying and opposing what I and others are demonstrating in regards to the true shape of the earth which comes from reason, God-given human senses, honest research and evident clear Verses on that??No, I base my conviction on my own reasoning, God given sense and honest research.
Do you think what you learned in school two decades ago constitutes as rigorous research and investigation of a matter?
yes absolutely
Why do you take for granted that you could have been indoctrinated into theories that are incorrect?
I am not sure if I understood your question, looks kind of weird or I am misreading it.
The shape of the earth is not a theory but a fact.
Spinning earth can be seen as a theory, but for me it is out of question that the earth is stationary. I do not have any other explanation for 2 focal points in the sky, then that the earth must be spherical and spinning.
Heliocentric model is indeed just a model but imo a much better model than a geocentric model.Furthermore do you deny the apparent understanding in the Quran solely based on what you studied a bit when you were younger?
I do not know what you understand under "the apparent understanding in the Quran".
It is however true that I always try to use the methods I learned to understand the quran better, I found them very helpful.That when you look at the sky and the stars you are staring at empty infinite space
I see the universe like a mathematical space.
For example, between 0 and 1 there are infinite real numbers, you can throw there as much real numbers (between 0 and 1) as you like and there will be always more then enough space left. But despite all this infinitness of this space, it still has a clear boarder (0 and 1) and is thus in that sense not infinite.btw do you think this is fake?
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Which of the favors of your Lord will you deny Imran?
none of them,, lol
which of the marvels/miracles/favours of your lord you will deny ...
Glory to the God , the lord of universe..
brother you once told me you are scientist, but as you know there is always a check and balance between everything , and scientific facts seldom change what we know the theories take u turn lot of times that y they are theories...
flat earth theory is an old theory but due to the help of modern science we are able to solve this theory and give it a name fact.. 500 years ago people was aware earth is not flat but thanks to modern science which is seperate from emotions religion and ,
in start it was a problem for them to do their research neutrally but they found lot of things are going against bible and chruch, but they still think literal meaning and actual meanings of things are different but obviously they cannot say something black which is infact white..
this mystery of shape of earth is solved its not flat though..
hope so with the passage of time you will get learn or someday when u become successful scientist they will send to ISS and then you will have a chance to see it with your own eyes..
peace
God bless you.. -
This is getting off topic.
The discussion should be about what the original quoted verse can be about.
The OP asked if it could mean that Earth is flat and there is an ice wall.
That should be the discussion.To get anywhere on this topic, we should first of all look at the context of the verse, and the wordings.
For example, why does the brackets say that what we lose is the control of the lands?
What land is referred to? Is it land controlled by a specific group, or is it the entire Earth?Also, nobody has claimed, from this verse given by OP, that Earth is round.
Cheers all