Translation of 4:129: Logic Gone Wrong or Not?
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This is how 4129 is traditionally translated
And you will never be able to be equal between wives, even if you should strive . So do not incline completely and leave another hanging. And if you amend and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.The first two lines don't have logical flow. God knows that there is no way a man/human can avoid favoritism, yet he instructs him to do so?
Shouldn't the second line be "leave her" instead of "leave another hanging" because of the previous verse? It says
And if a woman fears from her husband contempt or evasion, there is no sin upon them if they make terms of settlement between them - and settlement is best. And present in souls is stinginess. But if you do good and fear Allah - then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.4128
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We muslims seem tobe thouroughly hypnotized to see poligamy everywhere. This aya isnot about poligamy. There is nothing in it to invite uch thought, it is about women in general. There being talk of breaking u,so if you break, be fair and do not be dirty with one because now you are thingking of another. Nothing surprising, we see that all the time.
Salaam
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Peace reel,
This is how 4129 is traditionally translated
And you will never be able to be equal between wives, even if you should strive . So do not incline completely and leave another hanging. And if you amend and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.The first two lines don't have logical flow. God knows that there is no way a man/human can avoid favoritism, yet he instructs him to do so?
I think that's the whole point. Men are supposed to realize they can't be fair regarding multiple women. I see it as a warning that pairs with 43. As 43 says, "...But if you fear you will not be fair, then only one..."
It's kind of like the lashing punishment described in 242, I suppose? These are both actions that are impossible, if not near impossible, to carry out.
Shouldn't the second line be "leave her" instead of "leave another hanging" because of the previous verse? It says
And if a woman fears from her husband contempt or evasion, there is no sin upon them if they make terms of settlement between them - and settlement is best. And present in souls is stinginess. But if you do good and fear Allah - then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.4128
"Leave her" sounds better. As long as it fits with the Arabic, I would support that translation instead. Anyways, I think considering these verses we also have to consider 4127 as well
4127 "And they seek a ruling regarding the women, say 'God will give you a ruling regarding them and what is being recited to you in the Book regarding the orphans' mothers whom you wish to marry but have not given them what was decreed for them, and the oppressed from the children That you stand for the orphans in equality.' Whatever good you do, then God is aware of it."
So I do think it is talking about polygamy. I've written before that I think all these verses (4127-129) indicate that the wife (current) deserves a say/influence in her husband's decision to take another wife or not. Contempt or evasion doesn't have to take another wife to be physically there and wed for such actions or feelings to occur; it can occur before, even at the mere mention (if the wife becomes bitter at the thought of her husband taking another wife).
Given the context laid out in 4127, the husband has not married the orphans' mother. He wishes to, but he has not yet. (The "you" being addressed in the verse is plural, so I am first assuming that each man being addressed is only talking to one potential new wife.) Let me propose an example of what could be going on here I would imagine that a husband is only interested in the single mother at this stage - spending time with her, getting to know her, etc. He's finding he likes her (or simply that they would be compatible).
All this interaction with the orphans' mother is taking time away from the current wife, whose feelings are addressed in the next verse, 4128. A compassionate and caring man is reminded in 4129 that he cannot be fair or equal with women, as much as he is trying to be a good person (by trying to take in and care for a mother and her child(ren), in addition to the wife he already has). He can't leave his current wife hanging. He couldn't leave ANY of them hanging, if he married again. He has to be careful with the new few decisions he decides to make. (If the husband chooses to go ahead with a second marriage despite these warnings - perhaps thinking that the injustice done to the mother and orphan is worse than the injustice to his current wife - then 4128 and 4129 would still apply to future situations.) Anyways.
Reconciliation with the current wife is important and one should make sure that this relationship/marriage is strong first. The husband and wife should reach a settlement that is good for them both. Maybe the husband would be able to convince his wife that taking in a mother and her child is best or good for them. Maybe the wife would be able to convince the husband of the opposite. Ultimately they should both agree on their settlement, no matter what it is.
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peace reel, all,
I assume you have checked with http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=129#(41291)
The Arabic literally says "...so do not incline/deviate all the inclination/deviation so leaving her like the suspended one..."
Background
http//www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part2 -
Comrox it says women no wivs, so it can be about any situation with women but it does nothave to be regarding poligamy, why make it exclusive of that when in fat can fit the more usual things which is the break u of a marriage. It is the need to condone oligamy by hook or crook which tends to make people think of poligamy when there are other possibilities.
Poligamy is not prohibited it he Qur'an either feminine or masculine, but it is not the ordinarything around where societies are about even in the number of individual of both sexes, so why not apply it to ALL, why make it dependent on poligamy for that aya to make sense.
Like so may ayas its purpose is not to assert any right of men but the right of women by imposing on men the behaviour which would make the rights of women respected without these having to struggle all the time to get them.
Of course by the look of it in many cases we re still far from attaining that situation.
The thing is that you are an excepction i entionning this aya for any other purpose that is not to uphold poligamy as a qura'nic feature.
Salaam
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peace reel, all,
I assume you have checked with http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=129#(41291)
The Arabic literally says "...so do not incline/deviate all the inclination/deviation so leaving her like the suspended one..."
Background
http//www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part2Thanks for the links. I didn't check corpus earlier because of how unfriendly the site's navigation system is >
I am having trouble understanding this
Interestingly, this may shed light on why 4128 uses "wa/and" as a continuation from the previous verse 4127 which is about the man wishing to marry an orphan woman in an non-Quranic manner, e.g. without giving them what is written for them (e.g. inheritance if any, dowry). So, let's assume, this same man already has a wife, there are only a few possibilities
(1) if the current wife gives consent, then all is fine.
(2) the wife says no, and the husband accepts the decision without problems.
(3) the wife says no, and the husband disagrees or agrees superficially but becomes suspected of causing problems.
Situation (3) would result in the wife being in fear of rising up (above marital/relationship limits, e.g. disloyalty/infidelity) or turning away (alienation), from her husband. As we can see, our understanding of "nushuz" and "iAAradan" fit perfectly in both 434 and 4128. Please note, that is not to say that what is being discussed in 4128-129 is a husband doing such a thing, it is only one possible situation, and this specific situation simply helps to serve as a checking mechanism to ensure we have a reasonable grasp of the words being used.Isn't going after another lady disobedience/ill conduct to the current wife?
What about this?
And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves. If they should be poor, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.2432If there is another instruction that a man can take more than one wife I would like to see it. Subtract the Prophets' wives though.
So far what I have understood from the three verses of the chapter 4 is that the married men are not allowed to marry the orphans' moms.
I am not sure whether they had the hindu tradition according to which widows are not allowed to remarry. But if that was the case which got overridden by Allah's words that they had all the right to remarry then I would imagine perverted married men looking to eat the cake and have it too.
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Salaam/Peace Reel and All Friends,
here is how I basically understand those Verses
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128- And if a Woman fears from her Husband desertion or disregard ---(here especially, because of the fact that he may be under pressure
of his own Mother and Sisters who may not like his Wife that much from the bottom of their heart, and so always
trying to agitate him against her, this way or that way)---
then there is no sin for two-of-them (=Wife & Husband) to talk and reconcile between themselves with a (healthy & righteous) reconciliation;
because Reconciliation is good/best. Because (all of) the souls/bodies (=alanfus) are ready to selfishness.
And if you act-nicely and be-conscious (of HIM), then AL-LAH is fully Cognizant of what you do.129- Because you may not be able to deal-equally between the Women ---(i.e. especially in such a situation in which your Mother and Sisters may be on one side
against your Wife and Mother-In-Law on the other side, etc.)--- however much you wish;
so do not incline too greatly ---(e.g. to your Mother and Sisters in such a situation above)--- and leave her (=your Wife) as one hanging in a void.
And if you talk and reconcile (with your Wife, as highly Recommended in the above Verse) and be-conscious (of HIM),
then AL-LAH is Best-Forgiver, Most-Merciful.130- But if they separate ---(e.g. because the Man was weak, could not take a firm Stand and follow the Recommendation of AL-LAH
and talk and reconcile with his Wife with a (healthy & righteous) reconciliation, but succumbed to the pressure of his own Mother and Sisters against his Wife,
or/and his Wife was not particularly helpful to him, either, in such a situation in a peaceful and constructive manner herself therein,
and so the Marriage had to come to end)--- AL-LAH will (then) provide for each of them (=divorced Husband & divorced Wife, in their separate Ways) from HIS Bounty.
For AL-LAH is Most-Bounteous, Most-Wise.QURAN TESTAMENT 4/128-130
So, I do not see absolutely nothing related to "polygamy" in the above Verses at all,
and neither in (4/3)
--(*I may also relate how I basically understand it, soon, inshaAL-LAH)--because I believe our Lord AL-LAH has created
for every "Adam" (="Man" only one/single "Eve" (="Woman",
or/and also
for every "Eve" (="Woman" only one/single "Adam" (="Man", for/in Marriage,
from the very beginning, here again, in the same Chapter/Sura, in the very first place. (=4/1)
Remain in peace/salaam.
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This is how 4129 is traditionally translated
And you will never be able to be equal between wives, even if you should strive . So do not incline completely and leave another hanging. And if you amend and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.The first two lines don't have logical flow. God knows that there is no way a man/human can avoid favoritism, yet he instructs him to do so?
Shouldn't the second line be "leave her" instead of "leave another hanging" because of the previous verse? It says
And if a woman fears from her husband contempt or evasion, there is no sin upon them if they make terms of settlement between them - and settlement is best. And present in souls is stinginess. But if you do good and fear Allah - then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.4128
If you read Q0403 to 04, you will find that there is no instruction to marry more than one woman instead what the verses say is that we are to give charity to the women among the orphans - 2 or 3 or 4 if we are affordable.
Now the word NIKAH was inserted. How do I know? If you read the following verse 4, you will find that it is talking about charity and not dowry. Please see below.
According to Professor Peter Stein - University of Jena, Germany, who is the world expert on this script; the correct rendering of the ancient text is that it is a legal document which states that a certain amount (the actual number has been left open) of Sorghum has been granted by A MAN TO FOUR WOMEN.
So base on Professor Peter Stein interpretation, the text seems to show alms / charity towards the women. It also seems to be very similar to the Quran 0403....If suppose the word NIKAH is not part of Q0403 - ? the Quranic verse sound like??
And if you fear that you cannot distribute in the orphans, what seems suitable you all of the women, two or three or four, so that you fear you cannot be just, then one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline.
If you read further verse 0404, there is no word "dowry" but instead it mentions "charity".
Q0404 - And give the women their alms / charity graciously. But if they give up willingly to you anything of it, then take it in satisfaction and ease.
Now, if this is the case, 0403 ? 0404, did not render the marriage of orphans among the women but instead to give charity to the women, affordable to the donor, 2, 3 or 4 women, but if he / she cannot afford than 1 is enough.
The reason why i believe the word "NIKAH" was indoctrinated is that if someone fear because he could not provide or distribute some things than that means he is lack of financial or other means of support. Than how can he marries 2 or 3 or 4 women? This will put more burden on him considering if he already has a wife to support.
Furthermore, the 1st sentence of this Chapter starting with the word "Oh Mankind" referring to both men and women.
Conclusion - the ancient text does provide prove of Quranic Law used in the 3rd / 4th Century CE.
X reference with 0427 where the verse says that men are suppose to ordain for the women? What are they suppose to ordain? Base on 0403-04, they are suppose to give charity and that is ordaine for them but instead they have desire to marry those orphan women .
There is no rules that men can or cannot marry more than 1 wives. Nowhere in the Quran . The verses in 0428 ? 29 tells us that if the women are afraid of being treated injustice than they should ask for a settlement. In verse 29 - ALLAH?s advise because HE knows, that men can never provide justice if they have more than 1 wives and he might leave her in a desolate position. But if men are to do good as the Quranic verse 29 implies -
But if you do good and fear ALLAH - then indeed ALLAH is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.
This is my understanding and correct me if i am wrong
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This is how 4129 is traditionally translated
And you will never be able to be equal between wives, even if you should strive . So do not incline completely and leave another hanging. And if you amend and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful.The first two lines don't have logical flow. God knows that there is no way a man/human can avoid favoritism, yet he instructs him to do so?
Shouldn't the second line be "leave her" instead of "leave another hanging" because of the previous verse? It says
And if a woman fears from her husband contempt or evasion, there is no sin upon them if they make terms of settlement between them - and settlement is best. And present in souls is stinginess. But if you do good and fear Allah - then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.4128
Firstly a natural fact is mentioned and then what men can by design do is advised to be avoided.
However know it You people would not be able to attain a capability to maintain absolute justice between your wives even if you had vehemently wished it.
Therefore, for reason of this natural fact and to remain near to justice You people should not turn away, an altogether turning, whereby you leave her-one wife in the manner as flesh separated from bone making her like something suspended-hanging.
And should you people reconcile-make things balanced and perfect; and should you remain cautious and heedful avoiding un-restrained conduct
Thereby, Allah the Exalted is certainly repeatedly Overlooking-Forgiving, the Merciful.It should be read in the frame 4127-134
Sura 4
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It should be
X reference with 04127 where the verse says that men are suppose to ordain for the women? What are they suppose to ordain? Base on 0403-04, they are suppose to give charity and that is ordaine for them but instead they have desire to marry those orphan women .
There is no rules that men can or cannot marry more than 1 wives. Nowhere in the Quran . The verses in 04128 ? 129 tells us that if the women are afraid of being treated injustice than they should ask for a settlement. In verse 129 - ALLAH?s advise because HE knows, that men can never provide justice if they have more than 1 wives and he might leave her in a desolate position. But if men are to do good as the Quranic verse 129 implies -
But if you do good and fear ALLAH - then indeed ALLAH is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.
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Verse 4129 has nothing to do with (discouraging) polygamy. See https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.msg411300#msg411300
4128-129 If one woman has experienced from her husband ill-treatment/uprising or desertion, then it is not undignified for the two to reconcile between themselves; and reconciliation is better. (Greed is ever-present in human consciousness. If you do good and are prudent, then the god is expert over what you do. You men will not be able to be fair regarding the women even if you make every effort.) So do not sway* too greatly and leave her as one hanging in a void. If you reconcile* and are prudent... The god is forgiver, mercy-giver.
*male plural
