Just another sect?
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Salam hello D
I just came by this sect 4 montsh ago. It is very interresting i must admit.I read the article here called "the arab conspiracy" and my initial reaction was, what kind of blasphemy was that.
I am a reverted sunni muslim, reverted from Christianity i must admit. But eventually i gave in. For a long time i had more and more hatred building up inside me over the relegion that i chose, I was on my way to become mujahediin and would propbly be dead and awaiting hell right now if i hadnt come across this page and the articles at moslem.org.I do not see the 19 miracle, and cannot see how it is relevant for my salvation, there are so many other miracles in the Quran that confirms it is from who it claims. One of them being the fact that it makes me cry when i read it.
But i only just lately realised that i had never really done so before, doing my 5 ritual prayers, and following the socalled sunna of the Prophet.Ofcourse my initial remark about a sect is a kind provocation, because arent that what we are? just another sect claiming to have the truth at hand?
I know that im worried sick if im doing the right thing. Now i pray when i have something to tell God, when i have something for real on my heart, but i dont do the ritualistic prayers anymore. And being from Denmark i think it makes things even harder, as it seems all translations are spurious at best. So, im left with Gods book in a form that could make me draw the wrong conclutions, and it worries me. How do you, non arab speaking people deal with that?
The author of "the arab conspiracy" seems to completely dismiss any form of ritualistic behaviour, and to be honest, i can actually follow that way of thinking, but is it right? Who is it that wrote it, and is it trustworthy?
I know theres a lot of questions but im just typing this off my head, i hope it will make some sense.
What we all agree on is that The Reading is from God. And that the socalled sunna is pure mickey mouse. But it seems that this is where our mutual agreements stops. Some still ritually pray. some 2 times a day other 3, others 5 because of a divine IBM computer. some say the words used are not prayer but commitment. But where does that leave me?
I SO want to do the right thing, i SO want to follow the one unseen God that i have belived in me whole life, even as a christian. I never really bought the "died for our sins" story as it removes personal responsability and smells like old NIMROD practice out of Babylon on a 11 scale. theres even a virgin mother thrown in there.
What am i to do? I read different versions of the Quran (the Quran browser here, and the Quran avaible here aswell as a Quran book), and articles from you, but if we God alone people cant even agree with eachother, dont we have a problem?
Anyway, may the unseen God guide us all to his will.
Kind regards cincerely
Noah/Denmark -
Peace Noah,
Yours is a brave and insightful post.
I can only say that I've been through the same thoughts as I'm sure many here have. I read Arab Conspiracies and while it breaks many icons I believe it goes a little too far and has been shown by many people to contain innacuracies as far as word roots and fanciful translations go.
There's no need for it to be a "ritualistic" prayer. The reading has two times declared as being special at the minimum for contacting God. Whether you do or don't will largely be up to you, and how guided etc. you feel. Sometimes there is much to say and at other times life seems dull and fairly still. Sincerity is the key. God will not punish you if you are sincere and honest in your actions, in my opinion.
For me personally there is enough evidence to perform a prayer which you can personalise to your own understanding.
Ask God for guidance, and trust Him; trust that you will receive the help and guidance. God promises never to place a burden on someone they cannot bear.
Keep this in mind... we are not all the same. God's guidance may lead to some of us being guided to do different things according to our situation. Anyhow, I hope you can see that uniformity may not be the ultimate goal as we are all a little different. Where we are similar is what you have pointed to - our belief and trust in God alone without the intrusion of idols.
Regards.
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Peace Noah, and Welcome,
It is great to hear sincere questioning. This will surely light your path. As for your worries, take into consideration 548...
...If Allah had willed, He could have made all of you humans a single people. But, He decided to let you choose your own path after showing you the Truth, and thus test yourselves. Outdo one another in actions that serve humanity and thus grow your ?Self?. To Allah is your final Destination, of all of you. Then He will make you understand where you differ.See, the details are not important. What's important is the intention, and the intention should lead to development. If we are not constantly improving, then we are doing something wrong. Time to reflect and re-assess.
I also echo Truth's sentiments, in that, the only common bond I have found is the belief in God-Alone. If this makes a sect in your mind, then so be it, but I don't think that's the case.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace the both of you )
Thank you for your kind reply's. Well i must admit that i tried to enter a sort of ritual when i left the 5 prayers. And started to have a reading session in the evening just before the sun goes down. But i was unsure of it was correct. this was largely based on what i read in The Quran. And the articles on salat from this page.
Tay, about the sect, that was only a "joke". Sectarism is something else than agreing to a specific purpose. Humour is the spice of life, im sorry if it is taken the wrong way, no evil was intended.
I too have read the verse often quoted about holding the salat at the setting of the sun in the evening and in some hours of the night. So i guess i will keep my reading sessions, i just didnt think they where prayers as such. Atleast a dayly reading session ensure i get to know The Quran, then the only problem left is...Is it the right Quran that im reading.
They are not fundamentally different, except the cutting off of limbs and a few other issues, but to me thats bad enough. Do you reccomend the Quran here or is there a translation that is particulary good?Oh God i really do need a lot of reprogramming. Prayer in my mind is still bowing down to a rock structure. )
Truth thanks for pointing that out about The arab conspiracy, even though there are som really good points, i was a bit sceptical about some of it. But the way of thinking it represents, about being honest and wholehearted in your search for God does appeal to me. And the both of you aswell it seems. Then details arent that important. I get the point.
Oh well, i hope i will God willingly grow in knowledge and commitment. I hope we all do.
But you have not heard the last of me, there is a lot of reading to do here aswell )
As a sister said it on another forum
exhalt Allah and be well )
Noah -
Peace Noah,
I'm sorry I missed the opportunity to catch your sense of humor. Maybe next time wink
You asked
Do you reccomend the Quran here or is there a translation that is particulary good?
In my humble opinion, the Free-Minds translation is an excellent literal translation. Personally, when I want to just read the Qur'an, I prefer the QXP or the Parwez exposition. But when researching, I usually cross-reference the expositions with the literal translations, and then draw my own conclusions.
Here are some additional resources for your endeavors
Excellent articles and Qur'an research tools
http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/QXP (The Qur'an As it Explains Itself)
http//www.galaxydastak.com/highlights.htmlMultiple translations (great for cross-referencing and transliteration)
http//www.quranbrowser.com/Muhammad Asad translation
http//www.geocities.com/masad02/Parwez exposition
http//www.tolueislam.com/Enjoy!
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Good morgen, Noah
When I first read "The Arab Conspiracy", I was shocked to death. I refused to accept the facts & translations but after few weeks I tried to open my heart & re read the "The Arab Conspiracy" again.
Now I realised that pride & ego does not help.
I am a newbie but I want to be able to master the Koran & really do the right thing.
I am shunned by families & friends but I kept to what I believe & that is no other books can supersede what God had given to us.
I am thankful that I have found this web-page.
I am still learning but one day... just one day I may be able to really see life & the world as God has decreed to all of us.
I wish you well.
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Hey Noah. I know exactly what you mean when you say you want to be sure you are doing the right thing and not misinterpreting, but I think relying on the Quran rather than scholars and tradition is defenetly a safer choice. It is clear and logical.
The Quran is Gods revealed will and instructions. Sure some parts might not be clear at first, but keep studying it. Sometimes I think that I was much more comfortable being a sunni because atleast I knew what I was supposed to do, but now I know that much of what I practiced and believed had no scriptural basis and was therefor man made. On the day of Judgement what will I tell God if he asks me why I chose the tradition rather than his Book? I really won't have an answer.
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peace all.
And thank you for comments and helping me on my way. And thank you for welcomming me in )
I have gotten help from brother damon at moslem.org aswell, that i would like to mention, but his board is a crawl over here so much that it is practically unusable for us (Tay...I have a lot of reading to do it suddenly seems. Oh the joy D
peace
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Salam Aleikum.....
Velkommen til Noah..... D
I'm also in a situation like you, just not the mujahediin part... Because my mom would kill me, before I have the smallest chance to leave my house....... But mine advice, just take the time that you'll need.... Then Allah will show you the way...... Like myself I'm still doing some reading.... And got a long way to go ( I think )..... Thus I cannot say I'm fully hadith rejector ( yet ).... But I'm still reading, and I'm doing my best.....
Danish ( Sorry for those who don't understand... But It's not a big deal )
Det m? v?re ret h?rdt i Danmark, and v?re konverteret fra Kristendommen til Islam, tror jeg nok.... Har dog ikke pr?vet det...... Men vil bare sige k?mp videre, med at l?se og ransage dit sj?l, Og Allah viser dig vej..... S? sandeligt i mine ?jne er du en mujahediin...K?mp videre min broder.......
Hope for the best for you......
Peace all....
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Peace upon you D.C )
Tusinde tak for den varme tilkendegivelse og Guds velsignelser til dig min ven. Du skriver Dansk? er du fra Danmark?
I can honestly say that the path of a mujahediin is not a very good one. Thank God i never actually got to go anywhere to kill anyone for the sake of preserving the traditions. The only where it leads, is to hatred and fearmongering. "they did it, not they did it, no the jews did it, no the americans=satan=wtf?! and so on and so forth. When i woke up i realised just how dark an arcane magic hadith truely is. It lures one in with soothing words about a man we trust as Gods messenger, and then backstab us with lies and story's that portay him as nothing but a brutal simpleton and paedophile. Some will argue about the authencity of hadiths, but think about this for a minute freind.
Who are to tell what hadith are genuine and what isnt? Keep in mind that the litteral meaning of the word hadith is hearsay, telltale, a story.
By what God given criterion are they judged as being either genuine or false? If they are genuine, then how come sunni, shiah, and other sects schoolars cannot agree on them if it wasnt because they are flawed to the bone to begin with.If you apply logic to it, as we are being told to do in the Quran, and try to confirm it using our senses, mind and our hearts it falls for this basic criterion. It contains a single lie, thus the whole scripte is flawed.
If im to study math, i would not be satisfied with the book im using knowing that 50% is not trustworthy at all, 20% perhaps is and some may be true. Actually it would make me uncomfortable that i had to go to an examn after learning from this book. And we are going to an examn, only you dont just flop in this one , you utterly fail for ever if youre wrong.
thats pretty serious is it not?You advice is taken and mostly welcomed, i thank you from my heart, and hope that God will show us both the way, through patience and honest search.
Regards
Noah -
Peace to all.....
Sorry for the delay.....
The website was down ( I think )....I can see what you think about the hadiths....And I must say I may think that you're right..... But then again I have to judge for myself....Because in the end I'm standing alone...... I know that it might be a short answer, but I'm in a hurry....
Ja.... Jeg er fra Danmark...
May Allah bless...
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Peace
If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of GOD. They follow only conjecture; they only guess. (6116)
It wonderfull that we dont even have to prove you wrong, God will do that just fine.
Regards
Noah -
Peace
and to further add. Who could majority be then? Could it be the established prison relegions? Lets take a look at some numbers.
Christianity 2 billion
Islam 1.3 billion
Hinduism 900 million
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist 850 million
Buddhism 360 million
Chinese traditional religion 225 million
primal-indigenous 150 million
African Traditional & Diasporic 95 million
Sikhism 23 million
Juche 19 million
Spiritism 14 million
Judaism 14 million
Baha'i 6 million
Jainism 4 million
Shinto 4 million
Cao Dai 3 million
Tenrikyo 2.4 million
Neo-Paganism 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism 800 thousand
Rastafarianism 700 thousand
Scientology 600 thousand
Zoroastrianism 150 thousand
And according to you, we are a sect of 20 members.
Regards
Noah -
Peace to all.....
Sorry for the delay.....
The website was down ( I think )....I can see what you think about the hadiths....And I must say I may think that you're right..... But then again I have to judge for myself....Because in the end I'm standing alone...... I know that it might be a short answer, but I'm in a hurry....
Ja.... Jeg er fra Danmark...
May Allah bless...
Peace
That is the right spirit. Think for yourself. Read. Try to understand, and constantly ask for understanding and guidence from our Rabb. Trust the tools that God gave you so that you may confirm for yourself the things that are happening around you. The miracles we see every day in our life, if we pay attention to creation. Look at tree's, and take a look at fractals. Isnt it amazing, the precision by wich this all works. And all this can be confirmed just by using the tools that you where given. Why do we expect, that we should not view his writing in this very same way? And by that method remove anything that seems the least but spurious, regardless of what PEOPLE might think about it. I have yet to come to look at a single passage in the Quran, that arent perfectly obviously genuine. By the very nature that this books talk to you in its verses, makes it clear that it is indeed, the best writing ever made, for the human mind.
Regards
Noah -
pece be upon you Noah,
firstly, welcome.
The best advice i can give you is set yourself as the example. at the end of the day, it boils down to you and what you believe AND do. monotheism and living a righteous life is the key. this key will unlock many doors for you.
Wakas
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pece be upon you Noah,
firstly, welcome.
The best advice i can give you is set yourself as the example. at the end of the day, it boils down to you and what you believe AND do. monotheism and living a righteous life is the key. this key will unlock many doors for you.
Wakas
Peace upon you Wakas
I try the best i can. It is all good adice, God bless you.
Regards
Noah -
Peace
and to further add. Who could majority be then? Could it be the established prison relegions? Lets take a look at some numbers.
Christianity 2 billion
Islam 1.3 billion
Hinduism 900 million
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist 850 million
Buddhism 360 million
Chinese traditional religion 225 million
primal-indigenous 150 million
African Traditional & Diasporic 95 million
Sikhism 23 million
Juche 19 million
Spiritism 14 million
Judaism 14 million
Baha'i 6 million
Jainism 4 million
Shinto 4 million
Cao Dai 3 million
Tenrikyo 2.4 million
Neo-Paganism 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism 800 thousand
Rastafarianism 700 thousand
Scientology 600 thousand
Zoroastrianism 150 thousand
And according to you, we are a sect of 20 members.
Regards
NoahPeace
I have honestly no idea how these got in the two posts this and the one before it came intot his thread. Im sorry, it was aimed at nobody, i used that excact argument in a hadith debate. But whats its doing here is beyond me i just noticed. Wow, that really made me stand out as a buttneck. Im really sorry if i caused any anger or confusion with anyone ( . Please forgive me, im really going to some wierd phase atm.
Regards
Noah
