Who here doesn't believe that Muhammad P.B.U.H. was the last messenger of GOD ?

Man_of_Faith

Dont waste your time reading his post, i would suggest that you read the Quran but before that ask ALLAH for guidance.

My posts are Quran's teachings, situationally adapted. Quran contains a huge set of teaching templates and of which I am using.

If you say to him to not read my posts you wish for him to not widen his horizon. It would be like I told him to not read your posts, but I think one should read most posts and then use the best of wisdom to see what seems most plausible, and if something seems strange ask the person further questions. It could basically be you who do not understand because you are in a tunnel-vision and cannot see more than what you are used to. That is the difference between being insightful and being limited to one scope.

The person is wise in asking for clarification of my post and I shall give him tomorrow "an sha allah" (it is a matter of Being). He asked three questions and they are easily addressed for me but to him it has left him in puzzlement. Every person is valuable to me, irrelevant if they are healthy or need a healer.

Be well
Amenuel

Man_of_Faith

I can't read over 600 posts ;D. I believe his christian background has alot of influence on his theories. Another thing I noticed is that he was married to an Iranian and lived there, in another post he called sufism the more sound ones than the rest of the muslim groups. However, sufists are one of the few groups proud to say that they follow and obey a living human since they are mushriks.

Anyways, tomorrow I will read more of his posts, even though in one of them he did say the Prophet Mohamed was the last but it was pretty old.

It does not say I am a "sufi" nor that I agree with their doctrine, it was only that among those who call themselves "a Muslim" they seem to hold unto some accurate views.

I do not have "Christian background" in that regard, I was not entirely atheist before I encountered religious writings, but I never confessed to be a Christian. I follow in the footsteps of the Messiah, but I am not a member of the Christian sect which holds on to many incorrect views. My ideas are based on teachings of Quran, when deciphered as intended by its author. That they happen to align with much of the philosophy of the 'Biblical Gospels' would not be so strange because apart from the Juda-Islamic sect Islam this is how faith ought to look like.

Jesus was born a child like any other child although the conception was without a biological father and it is why he is called "Eysua ibn Miryem" in many places in Quran whereas if he would have a father this would be in the genealogy. But as it is written here, Miryem was both the mother and the father. That "ibn Miryem" is reiterated throughout is also to highlight the fact God was NOT the biological father of Miryem's child. The reason Jesus was conceived this way was to cause it to be obvious he was a sign of God and that also with God anything is possible.

Jesus did already have a far progressed spirit of his soul when he was born from previous cycles and his stable and developed spirit quickly passed the trials of the flesh. It is not odd that just he was born to take the role as the Messiah, his spirit was very strong. It was prophesied that he would do every wonder that he did.

But our purpose is to be born, born in the spirit managing it by "separating the spirit from the flesh". You consist of two parts, the spiritual and the bodily, and the bodily was made to corrupt you and hamper your spiritual development. It is the actual world's test, it is not about much more than that except to grow a powerful mind. But you need to get rid of everything that makes you enter in firmly into this world.

However, sufists are one of the few groups proud to say that they follow and obey a living human since they are mushriks.

There is nothing wrong in following an insightful living human, but together your purpose is to be being. In the end the test is yours alone and you need to help yourself and enable your escape/salvation. It is best not to look for delusion but look for what is most sound of arguments. People who embrace worldliness and are slaves of their flesh, it is not a wise idea to follow them.

Be well
Amenuel

Man_of_Faith

I don't understand Man of faith, how
1- You are saying satan is not a separate being. Even though in the Quran it is mentioned he is a jinn
2- How are we in hell? Doesn't make sense since some people corrupt on the earth and live a very wealthy life. Where is the burning?
3-The prophet is the last since, why would God call him the seal of the prophets. What's the meaning behind it then?

Yes, but what is a Jinn then? Do you know?

People who advise me tell me to ask more rhetorical questions and wait for answers, but I promised an answer last night. The word Al-Jinn is a word that means 'the bodily', that which dresses the world. This is its primary usage. In the ancient lexicons there are also many misleading definitions because people who read them do not carefully analyze them. If there is too much of the bodily you could also be seen as bereft of reason and are unsound because the flesh prevents you from seeing straight.

= Jiim-Nun-Nun (root of jinn) = veiled/concealed/covered/hid/protected (e.g. cloth, armour, grave, shield), invisible, become dark/posessed, darkness of night, bereft of reason, mad/insane/unsound in mind/intellect, confusedness.
Become thick/full-grown/blossom, herbage, garden.
Spiritual beings that conceal themselves from the senses (including angels), become weak and abject, greater part of mankind, devil/demon, people who are peerless having no match or equal, a being who is highly potent, sometimes refers to Kings because they are concealed from the common folk

Red I.e. become fleshly, the person is fat or growing in bodily.

Quran says Satan is of the Jinn, and yes the phrase is very true, i.e. "satan is of the bodily". Satan is the body's instinct and Quran tells us to cut off from the instincts. It is our main enemy/problem.

Those who corrupt the Earth and live to please their bodies are failed subjects. The "burning" is in the form of feeling the force of Hell, the translation of "burning" is not really accurate. Jehennom means "attachment to bodily", coming from the root of Jinn. The more you succumb to this place the more firmly you have entered into it, and in it you will remain either until the final hour or if you somehow find the escape (salvation).

Nun-Waw-Ra = fire, flame, heat, war, light, shine, sparkle, irritate, vex or provoke war.

The word means more than fire or flame. The "burning of Hell" is an expression not to be taken literally. You could also speak of the vexing of Hell. Besides, the world is constructed of the Nuur, and you probably know that the Jinn are made of Nuur from your sectarian friends so then you now know through my manifestation that you are made of this. So you have to feel the Nuur which forms the bodily. That sectarian clerics and scholars made it into something else is due to their ignorance. Hell does also vex you to do what you are not meant to do.

I tried to say it in a previous post here, it depends on the interpretation of the word khatam in Arabic. It does NOT mean end or seal (as in end) primarily. If you look in a lexicon it is not the first definitions you find. Primarily a khatam is an impression or mark, you can speak of yourself like an identification tag. He had the mark of prophets (the insightful).

Kh-Ta-Miim = To seal/stamp/imprint/impress, to secure/protect oneself against a thing, produce an impression or effect upon a thing, reach the end of a thing, cover over a thing, turn away/avoid/shun someone or something, to not understand, prevent the heart from believing, feign heedlessness.

But those who interpreted Quran fabricated definitions that do not exist or used the worst kind of definitions for their interpretation. Often the first definitions that emerge in lexicons are the accurate, but not always. In the case of Sad-Lam-Waw (the root of salat) the latter less obvious definitions are the truer ones.

Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnifiy, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.
In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse?s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).
Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.

The examples reveal the true meaning. The word means "to follow", particularly closely and behind. It is "what comes after following".

Be well
Amenuel

Rekkd

Mof i read what you wrote twice just to make sure I didnt miss anything. I will give you my point of view tomorrow after doing my research

Jafar

It is not the first time either. Could be to make firm the grip of the flimsy doctrine of the Islam sect in order for them not listening if there came another (real) prophet and proclaimed more accurate teachings of a "God" which is not worldly, emotional and full of hate. Not saying the writer of Quran was not a real prophet, but its interpreters in the 7th century were not prophets (insightful) at all and they created the Islam sect as an offensive weapon against people they deemed as heretics and blasphemers, i.e. (other) Jews, Christians and pure Pagans (although they called everyone Pagan who was not unto their worldly portrayal of one god).

There is only one foundation and that is sanity/healthiness (islam). The word se-la-m means sound, pristine, flawless. Its root is also used in Latin and is salve, used in many modern languages, e.g. to say salvation. All "God" cares about is that the subjects on Earth are made sound and evolve into spiritual beings by rejecting the Satanic impulses (which often is the involuntary instinctive influence of the body). The interpreters of Quran forced it to say that one could not associate themselves with "God", but actually the true purpose is just association with God. They attacked the Jews who said they stay in "Hell" for only a number of days, but this argument is true and you do stay in "Hell" until you become whole, if you ever become whole. Hell, the word, is a form of the Germanic 'hel' which means whole in modern English. The purpose of being in "Hell" is to become whole in order to escape out of its trial, and we are in "Hell" as we speak but most are too deluded to see it. The interpreters of Quran did not know what the ancient Jews meant by sticking to Hell for a number of days either.

And modern Judaism is nothing which the ancient Jews practiced but grew forth from some centuries before Jesus until modern time. Their inventions is what Jesus is attacking while he emerged on Earth. For example, the Jews of the Pharisees said that you should forsake your parents for god, and Jesus responds "Do you ignore the law of Moses which said that you should honor your parents for your wicked traditions?". In many ways Jesus is seen rebuking the worldly portrayal of "God" at that time and he gives his own insight saying "I AM in the Originator and the Originator is in ME" and "if you do like me you will all be come of the Originator". He confirms the little of truth there is still left in the translations of the Old Testament today, i.e. when Moses is taught by "God" that "I am... who I am". Strangely enough people do not understand that "God" is the person who is "God". That is what the expression means. Jesus further confirms it when he says "I AM" in one of the Gospel testimonies. Because HE IS, he is begotten (his seed of the "Holy Spirit" develops) of God and it is purely a spiritual implication. Only his flesh is a "son of man" as he tries to explain himself within poorly translated Greek passages. He teaches everyone to give birth to that seed within our Spirit and making sure it is separated from the bodily (influences) so that the "weeds" do not hamper development. If reborn in the Spirit then they are like he says, i.e. "children" of the Originator.

But to return to the topic again, as for disabling people to believe in another prophet who comes to correct their flimsy doctrine it is easy to twist the language into saying "last prophet" to make sure a prophet gets a hard time being accepted. Anyone can become prophet (insightful) and it is only a matter of spiritual development and those people do not even have to be scripturally announced because anyone who reforms can see the "kingdom of God" at hand. A prophet can come out of any people and it only takes a distancing to one's delusion. Now prophets throughout history were few, but that is because also few are passing through.

And one does not receive the "Holy Spirit" from simpleminded belief, but it takes sophisticated reformation of one's lifestyle. One must host the "Holy Spirit" by having a mind sufficiently made free first, and they shall find that the "Holy Spirit" was within them from the beginning but they saw it not or rather did not use it properly blinded by the flesh. The "Holy Spirit" is what makes "humans" advanced as compared to animals, but the Homo sapiens body is what deludes them to be primitive and simpleminded.

Be well
Amenuel

I stumbled upon this, perhaps this is the triggering event which gives birth to the doctrine of "Last Prophet / Messenger" and "No more future revelation from God".

https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musaylimah

They even created a movie based on the event

Battle of Yamama - Musaylimah the False Prophet
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTma7InLOGQ

The objective is then clear
To silence out any future rebellion against the political authority..

Man_of_Faith

I stumbled upon this, perhaps this is the triggering event which gives birth to the doctrine of "Last Prophet / Messenger" and "No more future revelation from God".

https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musaylimah

They even created a movie based on the event

Battle of Yamama - Musaylimah the False Prophet
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTma7InLOGQ

The objective is then clear
To silence out any future rebellion against the political authority..

These people have even mystified what a prophet is. Even the English term deludes quite a bit. The Arabic form "nabi" means to be insightful and is adjectival, and it virtually means the same as the word buddha in Sanskrit. It is not a magical title for an "uber-human" selected out of nowhere to be a prophet (i.e. with no own striving to develop their being), but it is a person who has through his mind managed to establish a channel beyond the immediate world and can hence hold a wider perspective of things.

Saying no one can become a prophet today is like saying no one of us will go to "Heaven". And apart from the obvious names in Semitic scriptures there are way more prophets ever existed. Prophet is just a condition of being cognizant of things and of the true nature of their origin. Perhaps you are yourself slightly "prophetic"... or insightful as the word actually means from the Semitic languages or Sanskrit. It is no big deal, or well yes it is a big deal actually, being able to use more of the processing capacity of your mind is really a big deal.

Be well
Amenuel

Rekkd

Yes, but what is a Jinn then? Do you know?

People who advise me tell me to ask more rhetorical questions and wait for answers, but I promised an answer last night. The word Al-Jinn is a word that means 'the bodily', that which dresses the world. This is its primary usage. In the ancient lexicons there are also many misleading definitions because people who read them do not carefully analyze them. If there is too much of the bodily you could also be seen as bereft of reason and are unsound because the flesh prevents you from seeing straight.

= Jiim-Nun-Nun (root of jinn) = veiled/concealed/covered/hid/protected (e.g. cloth, armour, grave, shield), invisible, become dark/posessed, darkness of night, bereft of reason, mad/insane/unsound in mind/intellect, confusedness.
Become thick/full-grown/blossom, herbage, garden.
Spiritual beings that conceal themselves from the senses (including angels), become weak and abject, greater part of mankind, devil/demon, people who are peerless having no match or equal, a being who is highly potent, sometimes refers to Kings because they are concealed from the common folk

Red I.e. become fleshly, the person is fat or growing in bodily.

Quran says Satan is of the Jinn, and yes the phrase is very true, i.e. "satan is of the bodily". Satan is the body's instinct and Quran tells us to cut off from the instincts. It is our main enemy/problem.

Those who corrupt the Earth and live to please their bodies are failed subjects. The "burning" is in the form of feeling the force of Hell, the translation of "burning" is not really accurate. Jehennom means "attachment to bodily", coming from the root of Jinn. The more you succumb to this place the more firmly you have entered into it, and in it you will remain either until the final hour or if you somehow find the escape (salvation).

Nun-Waw-Ra = fire, flame, heat, war, light, shine, sparkle, irritate, vex or provoke war.

The word means more than fire or flame. The "burning of Hell" is an expression not to be taken literally. You could also speak of the vexing of Hell. Besides, the world is constructed of the Nuur, and you probably know that the Jinn are made of Nuur from your sectarian friends so then you now know through my manifestation that you are made of this. So you have to feel the Nuur which forms the bodily. That sectarian clerics and scholars made it into something else is due to their ignorance. Hell does also vex you to do what you are not meant to do.

I tried to say it in a previous post here, it depends on the interpretation of the word khatam in Arabic. It does NOT mean end or seal (as in end) primarily. If you look in a lexicon it is not the first definitions you find. Primarily a khatam is an impression or mark, you can speak of yourself like an identification tag. He had the mark of prophets (the insightful).

Kh-Ta-Miim = To seal/stamp/imprint/impress, to secure/protect oneself against a thing, produce an impression or effect upon a thing, reach the end of a thing, cover over a thing, turn away/avoid/shun someone or something, to not understand, prevent the heart from believing, feign heedlessness.

But those who interpreted Quran fabricated definitions that do not exist or used the worst kind of definitions for their interpretation. Often the first definitions that emerge in lexicons are the accurate, but not always. In the case of Sad-Lam-Waw (the root of salat) the latter less obvious definitions are the truer ones.

Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnifiy, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.
In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse?s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).
Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.

The examples reveal the true meaning. The word means "to follow", particularly closely and behind. It is "what comes after following".

Be well
Amenuel

1- Then if Satan and Jin are both bodily desires, what is the difference between the normal jin and satan?. How was Satan there before creation of humans on earth, when he was asked to bow to adam? How does bodily desire aka Satan make us mushriks or polytheist, how does our bodily desires make people worship a cross or buddah or wtvr? How does Allah say in the Quran that people have setup the jin as a partner to God, in Surah 6100? why does God separate Jin and Men in the Quran Surah 6130, 738, 11119 and other verses? Jin created from fire and Before us in Suran 1527 or 5515?

I like your explanations, in a way it can be viewed that way but what you're saying contradicts a lot of the Quran. But still interesting ;D

2- I still don't see how this world is hell?

3- Well in the Quran we see a lot of statement telling us not differentiate between prophets. Yet the Quran said the Prophet Mohamed is the Seal or Last or Khatam or however you want to define it. It makes perfect sense that he is the last from every definition you used btw.
Seal/stamp/imprint/impress = This would mean that he is a mark that would be remembered for all the future and no one will come after him to do what he did. So no more prophets after him.
secure/protect = Same as above he came to secure the message of God.
Produce an impression or effect = Yeah he did it and no one will do it after him. Otherwise Allah would have said so.
Reach the end = Makes sense
Cover over a thing = Yeah he did that by bringing the last message to the people covering all that has come before him
Turn away = doesn't think this is it
To not understand = also doesn't make sense
prevent the heart from believing = again no answer here

I believe people that try to say that the Prophet Mohamed is not the last messenger or that he's not the last messenger because of whatever reason is that they believe that they themselves are some kind of Prophet or Messenger. Just so you know, no one will come and change the world like all the Prophets that came before. You keep saying a prophet means insightful and you mentioned before if I remember correctly that you call yourself insightful. That pretty much concludes this part.

Finally, I am not attacking you, like I said I find your reasoning very interesting and I am just telling you my point of view and wish you could answer some of the points I made.

Jafar

These people have even mystified what a prophet is. Even the English term deludes quite a bit. The Arabic form "nabi" means to be insightful and is adjectival, and it virtually means the same as the word buddha in Sanskrit. It is not a magical title for an "uber-human" selected out of nowhere to be a prophet (i.e. with no own striving to develop their being), but it is a person who has through his mind managed to establish a channel beyond the immediate world and can hence hold a wider perspective of things.

Saying no one can become a prophet today is like saying no one of us will go to "Heaven". And apart from the obvious names in Semitic scriptures there are way more prophets ever existed. Prophet is just a condition of being cognizant of things and of the true nature of their origin. Perhaps you are yourself slightly "prophetic"... or insightful as the word actually means from the Semitic languages or Sanskrit. It is no big deal, or well yes it is a big deal actually, being able to use more of the processing capacity of your mind is really a big deal.

Be well
Amenuel

There are those who claimed to be a prophet. asking to be regarded as prophet while bring nothing insightful or beneficial to human society.
There are those who never claimed to be a prophet (or any other special title) while they bring something insightful and beneficial to human society.
There are those who claimed to be a prophet (or other special title such as god, incarnation of god, progeny of previous ruler) and lay claim to the political position / throne.

The doctrine of "Ain't no more revelation" and "Ain't no more prophet" seems to be oriented towards number 3.
To secure political power over a territory...

Thousands has claimed to be prophet after 7th century which the "Islamic King/Prince/Caliph/Sultan" cannot do anything because they are living outside of their territory. With the exception of Mr Khalifa of course, as the "Islamic Agent / Operatives' managed to assassinate him in the US. The objective seems to be protecting the 'truthfulness' of ain't no more revelation / prophet doctrine.

But in the beginning, the doctrine was invented to secure and consolidate power over their own territory...

I've dig more into this "Musaylima" story..
To be honest I haven't found anything wrong with him, he performed magic tricks, organized and help people.. although the (hi)story was written by the victor.. (Which was Musaylima's political enemy).

It seems that "Mr. Musaylima" claim to prophethood was enough to justify his murder, as such that the 'historian' didn't bother to add more crazy stuff to his account (e.g. human sacrifice, killing babies, raiding villages and took women as slaves, orgy with 40 women etc..)

reel

How was Satan there before creation of humans on earth, when he was asked to bow to adam?

Adam wasn't the first human.

Rekkd

Adam wasn't the first human.

Lol

good_logic

Peace reel.
I agree." Bashar" and "Insaan" refer to different stages of the human evolution.

" Wa lakad Khalknakum( We created you- Bashar)Thumma sawwarnakum( Then shaped you- Insaan-) Thumma kulna lil-Malaaikati...( Then said to the Angels...)"

Adam was after the "Sawwarnakum"( shaped you) period.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

adam was first perfected insan

imrankhawaja

761 Was there not a time in the past when man was nothing to even be
mentioned?
762 We have created man from a mixed seed; We test him, so We made
him hear and see.
763 We have guided him to the path, either to be thankful or to reject.

Kanada

Good question!
I always thought William Blake was pretty wise and I really doubt that nobody could ever be inspired by God in all the time since the Prophet died (peace be on him). I hope you find a satisfying answer.

Adam_The_Warner

I heard some opinions that state that Muhammad P.B.U.H. we know today was no the the messenger of the Quran. Some even say that the Quran had different messengers through out.

Do these opinions have ANY bases at all? Is the Islamic history not 100% Accurate ?

Peace

Quran 6112 And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet mankind and Jinn devils to inspire each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

Quran 3144 And Mohammed is but a messenger, like many messengers who have passed before him. If he dies or is killed will you turn back on your heels? And whoever turns back on his heels, he will not harm God in the least. And God will recompense the thankful.

Quran 3340 Mohammed is not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.

Quran 472 And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Mohammed, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and relieves their concern.

Quran 4829 Mohammed is the messenger of God, and those who are with him are severe against the rejecters, but merciful between themselves. You see them kneeling and prostrating, they seek the blessings and approval of God. Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of prostrating. Such is their example in the Torah. And their example in the Gospel is like a plant which shoots out and becomes strong and thick and it stands straight on its trunk, pleasing to the farmers. That He may enrage the rejecters with them. God promises those among them who believe and do good works a forgiveness and a great reward.

imrankhawaja

muhammad is the title name for the person who bring the scripture name quran ... who was he? some people are confuse about him.. just becoz in some accounts of history by fake historian the personality of quranic prophet muhammad and historic prophet muhammad did not match...

the history error make people believe it was not any muhammad/prophet/ahmed existed...