Why do you believe in the Qur'an and not in the Bible?
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Peace everyone,
Thanks ES, for the blessings.
Well, Jafar, I am looking into universal sufism and Gnosticism right now. Do you have any comments on them?
Thanks
Good for you... a crossroad / intersection between West and East, a mixed between believe based (Abrahamic) and deed based (Dharmic) ideology.
Since you're starting from the "West" after Sufism and Gnosticism you should extend your journey far to the east. -
Peace everyone,
As mentioned in another post in this thread, I think that there are many reasons why one should follow the Quran instead of the Bible. That being said, I think that there are some sayings in the Bible which are very insightful and inspirational. I'd like to share a saying from the Bible here.
Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
I'd also like to share a Quranic verse here.
Quran 2285 The Messenger believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and believers. They all believe in God and His angels, His scriptures, and His messengers. They say, We do not differentiate between any of His messengers. We hear and obey. Grant us Your forgiveness, Lord, to You we shall all return!
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Peace everyone,
As mentioned in another post in this thread, I think that there are many reasons why one should follow the Quran instead of the Bible. That being said, I think that there are some sayings in the Bible which are very insightful and inspirational. I'd like to share a saying from the Bible here.
Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
I'd also like to share a Quranic verse here.
Quran 2285 The Messenger believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and believers. They all believe in God and His angels, His scriptures, and His messengers. They say, We do not differentiate between any of His messengers. We hear and obey. Grant us Your forgiveness, Lord, to You we shall all return!
Alhamdullilah, Very good reminder.
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I am certain that either one of the Christian or one of the Islamic teachings is true. But I can't work out which one. I admit that the Qur'an doesn't have any contradictions. I have looked the other day into the Jehovah's witnesses Bible and I checked a supposed and or correct contradictions I got from the internet and it wasn't there( one of them is all I checked). I still have a long way to go to check for everything else. Some sites list over 500 supposed and or correct contradictions.
I also have to say that just the same way you can justify supposed contradictions in the Qur'an you can justify supposed and or correct contradictions in between the Qur'an and the hadith. Some Sunni scholars say that there are only about four out of six thousand hadiths that are sahih.
The reason I don't consider Judeism is because it's very old and my guess is that by now the God,Allah, Jehovah has sent someone, even though the prophet Jesus as he is known in the Bible, wasn't prophecised in the Toraho I think.
I know there are brothers and sisters on this forum who are more knowledgeable than me, so I ask all of you if you wish to put your case forward.
Thanks
God created Adam, and Adam had children. Because God had send a lot of prophets and messengers with Hes message there are multiple messages. Moses came with the Torah, David with the Psalms, Jesus with the Gospel and Mohammed with the Quran. At the moment i try to follow all of them.
But if you have a look at the people, then i wish you good luck. Don't look at people, but turn your sight to God. Because if you obey the majority, you will find a lot of misconception. Being an arab or an israeli doesn't make you a follower of the Torah or Quran right? What does? Your belief and actions etc. right?
But now read these verses, and ponder upon them
Quran 285 The messenger has believed in what was sent down to him from his Lord, and so did the believers. They believe in God, His angels, His scripture, and His messengers "We make no distinction among any of His messengers." They say, "We hear, and we obey.* Forgive us, our Lord. To You is the ultimate destiny."
Quran 568 Say, "O people of the scripture, you have no basis until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Therefore, do not feel sorry for the disbelieving people.
Quran 6116 If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of God. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.
May our Lord forgive us, purify us and guide us to the straight path.
Peace.
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Peace,
I wanted to look into this thread again and put Christianity in perspective in away that you can see how some Christians see it.
OK, in the Old Testament, as a Jew, you had to bring burnt offering, to atone for your sins. So, to put it simply, it was blood for blood.
Now, according to the new Testament, God Yahweh, decides to send His Son Jesus to be that sacrifice, for the all of humanity. So Jesus took all of it upon Himself.
Now, some people say that only He could have done what He did, lived the way He did, which is interesting, because, I am pretty sure that there have been many people in the history who suffered for their beliefs. However maybe nobody did it the same as him( Jesus Christ)
Thoughts.
Thanks
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Peace,
I wanted to look into this thread again and put Christianity in perspective in away that you can see how some Christians see it.
OK, in the Old Testament, as a Jew, you had to bring burnt offering, to atone for your sins. So, to put it simply, it was blood for blood.
Now, according to the new Testament, God Yahweh, decides to send His Son Jesus to be that sacrifice, for the all of humanity. So Jesus took all of it upon Himself.
Now, some people say that only He could have done what He did, lived the way He did, which is interesting, because, I am pretty sure that there have been many people in the history who suffered for their beliefs. However maybe nobody did it the same as him( Jesus Christ)
Thoughts.
Thanks
RED Are you referring here to Jesus?
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The Quran says if it had been from other than God you would find much contradictions in it. I haven't found any yet
Also in fairly sure the Quran refers to a messenger being mentioned in the Torah and injeel, presumably Muhammad.
I'm also not so sure but I thought it mentioned Jesus being prophesied in the Torah
He is in Isaiah, that's at least one. But hey, i still haven't read the entire bible and i am still learning the Hebrew and Aramaic alphabet. It's sad to see people denounce the Scriptures which can be found in the Bible while they do not even know what's in the Bible let alone the original language. Most of the people here on the forum know that there are a lot of mistakes and sectarian doctrines that can be found in translations of the Quran, so what made them judge about the Bible so fast..
Anyways here is the part in Isaiah, the prophecy of the coming of the Messiah, Jesus, Son of Mary
Isaiah 714 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.Oh and for those that think that there is no Gospel anymore
Quran 547 And let the people of the Gospel judge with what God has sent down in it. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.How can Mohammed let the people of the Gospel judge with it 1400 +/- years ago?
Quran 2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers "We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny."
So there you read, that the messenger, thus Mohammed, believed in His Books and His messengers. There are a lot of verses that point out towards the previous scriptures, don't be fooled by those that say "there is no torah or gospel anymore, or it's fabricated/manipulated, or such kind of ignorant things".
Quran 568 Say "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.
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Peace,
indeed many reject it
'have you rejected it before there came to you the clarification of it?'
the bible is, once more, a collection of books, some are revelation of God, some are narrations of the people, some are invented falsehood, some are later additions from scribes or translators.. all of this is evident to one with discernment. but only with direction (Huda) and discernment (Hikmat) from Allah can we distinguish the truth from falsehood, and that which is truth, but has been covered in a veil of falsehood. thankfully God has revealed a confirming revelation, containing both Direction, and Discernment, whose signs are detailed, a Direction and Guidance to those with consciousness.
The Prophets of God surely spoke the truth, Yet He himself said there were many saying YHWH has spoken, when YHWH had not spoken. But rather He spoke out against them.
God willed to make the children of israel blessed, so that all mankind may see clearly Gods truth. The prophecies spoken by their prophets of YHWH all came true, and still are.
God told them they would forsake his covenant, and that when they did all the terrible things that have happened to them would happen, and God told them, when all theese things happen, then all the people will know 'it is because they forsook the covenant of YHWH their God'
It is all written there, the blessing and the curse, and following after, 'So be it'
And it is.
YHWH does not go back on his word, when He decreed a matter, He says to it 'Be' and IT IS. Such is the Power of our Lord.
Read the word, understand it, and take heed to it, do not be doubtfull, 'cleanse your hands o ye sinners, purify your hearts o ye double-minded'
God will make manifest and distinguish between the truth and the falsehood.
'The Conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard is
Fear the true God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole obligation of man. For the true God will judge every deed, including every hidden thing, as to whether it is good or bad'
The end of Ecclesiastes, 1213-14
peace be with you all
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Anyways here is the part in Isaiah, the prophecy of the coming of the Messiah, Jesus, Son of Mary
Isaiah 714 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.This is wrong. This is not about Jesus.
If you read the subsequent passages you can make out that it is not Jesus being spoken about. This is only popular belief.
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This is wrong. This is not about Jesus.
If you read the subsequent passages you can make out that it is not Jesus being spoken about. This is only popular belief.
Ah if you say so, i respect your understanding. If i am wrong thank you for warning me. I am reading just for the second time. I am trying to stop talking about Scripture and learn the original language and read the Word more and more. It's dangerous what i said. So i take it back. I was thinking that Jesus was mentioned because of the virgin birth..
May the Peace be with you.
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Ah if you say so, i respect your understanding. If i am wrong thank you for warning me. I am reading just for the second time. I am trying to stop talking about Scripture and learn the original language and read the Word more and more. It's dangerous what i said. So i take it back. I was thinking that Jesus was mentioned because of the virgin birth..
May the Peace be with you.
You actually do not need to understand the original language. Just read the translation of subsequent passages after the mention of Immanuel and you see it fits poorly with Jesus. Jesus did not have to learn to reject the bad and choose the good since he was born already conceived in his spirit. Jesus was not a spoiled kid living on curds and honey which means something like the English expression "milk and honey" which implies a carefree life.
Jesus did not turn a record right to be kept safe among disciples, the record implies a physical object rather than abstract teachings, and if the prophecy said that the instruction was to be kept safe by disciples it would definitely be to this day. The prophecy furthermore says that the record and instruction is the same object. The 'Ten Commandments' and laws were well-known during Jesus' time and this is not the record given mention of in the passage.
Actually "the record" in the passage is Quran. The word Quran in Arabic means something like record.
Qaf-Ra-Alif = to recite/read, compilation, collection, reading, recitation, explanation, study, investigation.
And people immediately draw the conclusion the passage with birth of Immanuel is a virgin (who has not copulated) that gives birth to a child. But a virgin mother is a woman who has her first child, and a child which is born outside of an established marriage. It has to do with a linguistic misconception. Virgin here is more towards the meaning of the English maiden here (a young girl or woman who is not married), so it is more likely that this Immanuel is born outside of an established marriage.
If Jesus was named Jesus this would be his name. But Jesus is not mentioned here, but he is mentioned in other parts of the Bible, but it is by the word of Messiah. People were to figure out who the Messiah was. John the Baptist realized he was not the Messiah even if he tried to live like the Messiah. People generally during his time thought that John was the Messiah until it came to pass that he was not.
Be well
Amenuel -
peace,
the word in isaiah 714 means 'maiden/young women/virgin' not nesseccarily literaly a women who has not yet had sexual intercouse, it is the feminine form of the word `Elm or 'young' (ayn-lam-meem) and in this case i believe the ha- prefix is the definitive article, thus in my understanding it means 'the young woman'
im not an expert on hebrew or anything though.
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peace,
the word in isaiah 714 means 'maiden/young women/virgin' not nesseccarily literaly a women who has not yet had sexual intercouse, it is the feminine form of the word `Elm or 'young' (ayn-lam-meem) and in this case i believe the ha- prefix is the definitive article, thus in my understanding it means 'the young woman'
im not an expert on hebrew or anything though.
You said it yourself.
But it could be a scribe error too and Miim could be a Qaf and then it could refer to a fertilized female, i.e. ay-la-qa. Ay-la-mi in Arabic you probably know about and these languages share the same root system. Compare and in those Hebrew letters and you see how easy it could be to make mistake. A qaf does have a slightly longer "tail". My suspicion is that the Miim is supposed to be written like modern day Miim but made sloppily into not completely round.
Then it would not be so strange anymore. "A pregnant woman carries a child given the name Immanuel".
The heh's in the word are only pronouns and grammatical helpers. It could make the sentence more imperative.
Be well
Amenuel -
Do remember this word from Arabic?
w?y?le?e
Walad
"and begets a conceived pregnant woman Immanuel to name and proclaim son"
Otherwise Ay-Ya-La means family so it could also refer to "begets a family conceiving Immanuel to name and proclaim him a son".
But I see the first alternative to be more plausible.
It appears to be a normal conception spoken about even if it is a hurdle deciphering this ancient tongue.
Be well
Amenuel -
An English translation of the Quran - 2946 And do not argue with the people of the Book except in that which is better; except for those who are wicked among them; and say "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is the same; to Him we submit."
"We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you"!
An English translation of the Quran - 568 Say "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.
"You are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel"!
An English translation of the Quran - 566 And if they had upheld the Torah and the Gospel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and from beneath their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but most of them only do evil.
"And if they had upheld the Torah and the Gospel"!
An English translation of the Quran - 546 Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.,
"Containing guidance and light"!
An English translation of the Quran - 239 And those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are the dwellers of Hell, in it they will abide.
"And those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are the dwellers of Hell"!
An English translation of the Quran - 262 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve.
