Faith no more

Bender

Humanity has a better chance of prosperity without religion. In particular Islam. If you look at history and present-day it is unable to reform.
That's not to say I am against it. I support reform. However, some of you are ready to move on to the next stage. I'm here to facilitate that )

RED That is very kind of you

Comrox

When you say you want to help us move on to the next stage, in what way are you planning on accomplishing that? Meaning, will you stick to posting only on this thread or will you be offering your contributions elsewhere on the forum?

Rekkd

Thanks bro.
An eternity in hell is better than one day in heaven with a tyrant. If your mighty God gets a kick out of torturing a weak little ant like me, then I look forward to it.

Lol, good luck man.

Cerberus

I?m happy to have a friendly talk and advise people who?ve been having doubts. I now believe science is the only way to determine reality and what is good for us.

Considering science is merely the design of God that is slowly being discovered by our specie, isn't that like, admiring the Mona Lisa without crediting Leonardo Da Vinci ?

In which case, I wish you good luck and may the science be in your favor. hail

Wakas

peace FNM,

Welcome to the forum.

I found your post a little puzzling on the one hand you seem to imply you are well read when it comes to Quran/"Quranism" yet on the other hand you make statements which don't add up to me.

In any case

what are the 3 strongest errors you found in The Quran?
what are the 3 strongest examples you have of abrogation in The Quran?

Thanks.

FaithNoMore

When you say you want to help us move on to the next stage, in what way are you planning on accomplishing that? Meaning, will you stick to posting only on this thread or will you be offering your contributions elsewhere on the forum?

I'm glad you asked.

I won't start new topics unless I'm invited to, by way of question, as all the information is already available on the internet.

So for example you might ask me why I say the Quranic cosmology is geocentric.
I will then respond by pointing to you some videos and articles to read.
That may lead to other questions or discussions. I might then point you to other resources or answer your questions directly, or I might ask you to research a particular point.
It will be an interactive process.

As I mentioned you can start by looking at The Masked Arab.

https//www.youtube.com/channel/UC9JU55HpvRvCSb1TO2w_eDA/videos

He's sources Hadith & Tafseer, but tackles the Quran and I feel is the most appropriate for the Quranist.
Whilst I don't accept Hadith and Tafseer as authority, they do offer insight into how people closest to that time understood the language.

Hopefully that will generate some questions.

I would prefer one-on-one conversation by email as it's technically easier to respond for me, but this forum is ok too if someone needs it.

I'm not here to convince anyone who doesn't want to be convinced.
I'm here to speed-up a journey that you might be on, that I have already taken.

Therefore the questions and desire must come from you.

If you have no questions ... that's fine too.

Comrox

I'm glad you asked.

I won't start new topics unless I'm invited to, by way of question, as all the information is already available on the internet.

Alright. Good to know. peace

He's sources Hadith & Tafseer, but tackles the Quran and I feel is the most appropriate for the Quranist.
Whilst I don't accept Hadith and Tafseer as authority, they do offer insight into how people closest to that time understood the language.

Hopefully that will generate some questions.

It did, lol, although I already had this certain question in my head before you said this.

What I've seen from some people on this forum - and elsewhere on the Internet - is that people who have been "Quranists"/followers of Qur'an alone and then go on to reject it seem to do a complete 180 in their beliefs. They put forth the argument that accepted Islamic history is correct and moreover that Qur'an cannot be understood without it.

Would you agree with that conclusion? Or at least agree with the claim that Islamic history must, in some way, be considered when studying the Qur'an? Why or why not?

You said here

I was a devout proponent of Quran alone, and a diligent student.

And then went on to say this

Mohammed was trying to build up a following through fear. He offered no miracles or any knowledge that people didn?t already have. ?Believe in me or you will be punished?. Of course the punishment didn?t come from God but from the hands of Mohammed. If you study him as a historical character, he is awful.

I find it intriguing that this radical shift of thinking occurs. I would like to know why, if this is your current belief and if you can explain it for me.

I would prefer one-on-one conversation by email as it's technically easier to respond for me, but this forum is ok too if someone needs it.

I feel that forum correspondence is best for the sake of all our members and guests here who frequently visit this forum. peace

Rekkd

Such a hypocrite. Calls says islamic history is evil, uses hadith and tafseer to call the Prophet a tyrant yet in the same hadith book they also claim he was the most merciful and just person. You just love to pick and choose to your likings. The main reason you stop believing in the Quran is your pride.

Believe me or be punished is also done by our parents, the people that love us most in this world. When I did something wrong as a kid i remember my father or mother punishing me, did they hate me? Were they tyrants? Was it out of love?.. you are just a hypocrite.

You want a one on one convo so its easier to manipulate everything without any resistance.

Every religion, every belief and even atheists have some sort of negative information written about them on the internet, doesnt make it all true.

FaithNoMore

peace FNM,

Welcome to the forum.

I found your post a little puzzling on the one hand you seem to imply you are well read when it comes to Quran/"Quranism" yet on the other hand you make statements which don't add up to me.

In any case

what are the 3 strongest errors you found in The Quran?
what are the 3 strongest examples you have of abrogation in The Quran?

Thanks.

I find the whole Quran absurd. It's a series of tweets. However, you see it as the literal perfect word of God.

There is a big gap between us. Lots things need to happen before that gap can be bridged.
I need to create a spark of skepticism in you.

However, if I'm not careful I will throw you deeper into your current position. That's how the brain works.

If you are willing, please watch these two videos. Then let me know if you are perturbed by them.

This will help me gauge the gap.

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVwizsojd1Y
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sju28v0dCw8

Thanks.

imrankhawaja

peace FAITH NO MORE

i remember an old fellow STUDENT OF ALLAH.

i ask some questions from him . he was unable to answer... i ask same from you..

do u really carefully understand the quran with verification? or if u understand it do you understand it fully ?
do u really think if a creator , created all this he will left everybody in the middle of nowehere?
post the verses which you think its illogical, errors, or mistakes.. we will proceed talking.. then.

btw he will not punish you by not accpeting him as lord . he will punish you if you go against your God.. serving God in pther words mean to do good deeds.. these deeds are accountable on you...

most of the times people are unaware about God . their judgement will depend on the actions they did in this world... but after knowing the truth if somebody become proud and challange God its really thing to worried about?

you gave the example of abraham but
you forget the example of pharooh?

anyway best of luck to you and post any verse you think its scientifically wrong , i really love to see once i also try to find an error , but still unsuccessful from last 17 years... hope so i will get a lead from you...

peace

NOTE i just count the words of your new title name... its consist of 11 letters ... one and one .. lol

Comrox

Personally I think it would be pointless to try to debate as FaithNoMore has already said he/she is not interested in debating. Never mind the fact that if both parties are firm, they will equally stick to their convictions.

But anyways. What do I know?

imrankhawaja

Personally I think it would be pointless to try to debate as FaithNoMore has already said he/she is not interested in debating. Never mind the fact that if both parties are firm, they will equally stick to their convictions.

But anyways. What do I know?

its not debate its , a freindly request if he have evidence of his claims we must accept that . so thats y i also request him to show me the way in the shape of verses so tht i can also ponder on it.. and if i find it logical and true i also stop believing on God..

good_logic

Peace Comrox.

I agree debating can be a waste of time and effort.

However, THE TRUTH AND FALSEHOOD ARE NOT THE SAME.
Presenters of either the truth or falsehood have THE BURDEN OF PROOF.

The truth will always be verifiable and will always stand high, shiny & non-negotiable while it will always be impossible to prove falsehood.
Those who introduce falsehood or attribute faulty claims, concepts or teachings to God and His message cannot stand any logical debate.
The reason is that they will always fail to prove their contradictory and irrational stands and they will never have a support for their blasphemies.
When it comes to the following challenging questions or arguments, I think I am convinced

Such is God, your rightful Lord. What is there after the truth, except falsehood? How could you disregard all this?

Why do you not take heed?
Do you have any proof?
Show us your book, if you are truthful.

O people, here is a parable that you must ponder carefully the idols you set up beside God can never create a fly, even if they banded together to do so. Furthermore, if the fly steals anything from them, they cannot recover it; weak is the pursuer and the pursued.

If anyone argues with you, despite the knowledge you have received, then say, "Let us summon our children and your children, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then let us invoke God's curse upon the liars."

Absolutely, this is the narration of the truth. Absolutely, there is no god except God. Absolutely, God is the Almighty, Most Wise.
If they turn away, then God is fully aware of the evildoers.

Say, "Can any of your idols initiate creation, then repeat it?" Say, "God initiates the creation, then repeats it." How could you deviate?

Let us see the proof ? ( Surely you tube videos also need to be checked/analysed!!!!)
I see another falsehood that is going to be shown up by the truth.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Wakas

peace FNM,

I was clearly asking YOU about YOUR findings, thus my views/mindset is completely irrelevant.

One of the reasons I asked what I did was because I sometimes see people making these claims BUT when asked to produce the strongest evidence they have, almost all (in my experience) evade answering.

I will let readers make up their own mind as to what this implies.

Man_of_Faith

Dear friends,

I have left Islam/Quran.

Fair enough. It is not so bad as long as you can progress spiritually which you probably can do better without the sectarian interpretation of Quran anyways.

I used to be a frequent poster here many years ago. I was a devout proponent of Quran alone, and a diligent student. I built Quran study tools and posted my analysis of verses but I want to keep my identity secret for now.

No problem.

I also believed in Code 19 (firmly) and scientific miracles of the Quran, but these unravelled quickly when I studied them critically after learning real maths and science.

Yes. Rashad Khalifa's "miracle" is quite deceptive, although I still find it odd that the "basmala" consists of 19 letters.

Briefly, what broke me out of my hypnosis was the flat earth, geocentric cosmology of the Quran. Mountains cast down like anchors to stop the earth moving. Incorrect embryology and pretty much every statement about the natural world is wrong. Took me a while to get over my confirmation bias (20 years), but I got there.

Yes. Because worldly people interpreted Quran therefore an equally wordly story.

I know the usual excuses, ?It?s not a book of science?, ?don?t take it literally?. How long can one take this approach? Soon there will be nothing literal left in the Quran. It offers no insight into the world and or any guidance. Most of the Quran is about following the messenger blindly. Mohammed was trying to build up a following through fear. He offered no miracles or any knowledge that people didn?t already have. ?Believe in me or you will be punished?. Of course the punishment didn?t come from God but from the hands of Mohammed. If you study him as a historical character, he is awful.

Absolutely. Muhammad according to the sectarian interpretation of Quran and hadith is an invented figure, perhaps a false prophet who together with his colleagues hijacked the innocent Quran to make something else out of it. Islam was an invented sect in the 7th century A.D. not previously been introduced. The "religions" did not have any particular names, in "Judaism" one was a Jew (yahood from root ha-dal-ya means something like gifted, guided or have recognized) which is an adjective description, but their faith has no name. Jew basically means that you have found the truth about things and try to live adapted accordingly. The word "chosen" suits poorly for the word, it is misfit.

Once you realise that the Quran is not from God you will see the bullshit. It is nothing but another idol. You must smash it. Remember, if you were born a muslim, you will have a lot of confirmation bias. Can you honestly say you are objective? Less than 0.5% change their birth religion. The truth is whatever you are born into.

This I do not agree with you on though. Quran was made written by Rabb or to say an insightful prophet who were in the Rabb and the Rabb in him (or could be her). The "bullshit" is whatever story has been fabricated about Quran on what it should say. Few people are objective though, this is correct, and that is why no one has challenged to established interpretation on a wider scale and why the current flimsy version of it is still accepted. To read Quran as intended it needs a complete reevaluation.

I read the Quran now and I see how hate filled it is and uses fear to shut down your rationality. I never noticed this before but the anti-jew sentiment is rabid. The God of the Quran is a lunatic. There isn?t a single positive Jewish story. Mohammed must have really hated the Jews and it explains Banu-Qurayza.

This is true. Quran is full of hate. The god is completely out of control and will condemn people eternally for not believing in it. It is like a megalomaniac dictator who just cannot get enough of attention and will execute anyone who does not accept him. No one ever reflects on it that way.

Quran never addresses women once. They are always addressed as property of men, even when it comes to their menses. 3195 was only revealed when the wives of the prophet complained why God does not mention women. I know you don?t like referring to books outside Quran, so look at 581. Clearly Mohammed is making shit up in response to women complaining. There are many more instances of just-in-time revelations.
Abrogation is also big problem and it clearly shows Mohammed testing the waters and changing his mind to suit his mission. There is always a verse that bails Mohammed out whenever he?s in tricky situation, especially with his wives.

Quran seems to make little distinction between man and woman, not prioritizing it as something important. We only have genders in the body while the spirit is asexual. For a bodily/worldly person the gender might be important.

The idea of Prophets, Adam & Eve, Heaven and Hell all seems ridiculous now.

They are misrepresented. Hell is a purgatory and is the place in which we live right now. Heaven is a place where you are ethereal, i.e. you lack a body. Adam's "paradise story" is just an ancient parable which has gone out of hand through conjecture which the interpreters of Quran added further to. The word prophet in Arabic means 'insightful', it reflects a person well aware of the true face of things to those who encounter him. The reason for his insight is successful detachment to the bodily and a well-developed spirit which means he is synchronized with Rabb/God.

I?m not posting here to debate anyone. The desire to wake up must come from within. Besides, all the resources are on the internet. If you are brave enough to look. The best resource is the ?The Masked Arab? on youtube. I also find Hasan Radwan were interesting. Here?s a great video about the how the concept of hell was developed

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=uniMzg0Qrws

I have no problems with people who wish to awaken people from the delusions of Islam. But we all need to reflect objectively.

Also, I know all tricks and word gymnastics that a Quranist will use. I used to be one - a very good one at that. It can be exhausting and infuriating, - just pick any thread and see. This was another doubt. Why did we use such language of hate when speaking to each other? I later realised that it was the language of the Quran. Anybody who doesn?t ?believe as you believe? is liar, hypocrite, led astray or a jew. That gets into your subconscious when you read the Quran daily.

Yes, particularly if you read someone else's interpretation without really being able to decipher it yourself.

The Quranic mentality doesn?t allow you to accommodate anybody who thinks differently from you. Quran already tells you their motives so you will always view the other with suspicion or someone who is perpetually misguided by God.

You can reach to people who are "Quaranists" with effort, it is like with every human who has a certain conviction. It is about psychology and strategy on how you put things forth.

More so, it forces you hold contradictory views with ease.

Yes, it can be difficult to accept they are inconsistent.

I?m posting here now to ask you read the Quran critically. Just for an hour tell yourself it?s not from God. Indulge your doubts and let go of the fear. The Quran will tell you to do the opposite. If you are truth seeker what do you have to fear.

That is one way of doing it, might not work for everyone. Some may think it is Satan who wishes to infuse these thoughts into them.

Good luck my friends. Hope to see you awakened and fearless. Some posters here have awoken but are coy about it. Their posts never made sense to me but now I understand their position.

"Hehe".

I?m happy to have a friendly talk and advise people who?ve been having doubts. I now believe science is the only way to determine reality and what is good for us.

Science is a tool. Empirical science is undeniable, and obviously you can use science in order to find out more about our origin.

Be well
Amenuel

Man_of_Faith

My position is similar to that of Abraham. I've have smashed all my idols including Allah. He is a creation of Mohammed and those before him.

Very good, for Allah is not an entity. Rabb is One Foundation in which we exist, conscious or unconscious. It is very symbiotic and every person has the possibility to affect.

I do hope there is a higher power that guides me, but I know it can never be anything like the God of the Quran.

Well, Allah of (the sectarian interpretation of) Quran is not particularly guiding. Very worldly one that. Some cleric/s was/were that Being (Allah). There is a higher power that can guide you, but that consists of one unity of being.

I think only science can answer the God question. Revelation and prophets are an absurdity to me.

Not necessarily, you only need to listen to what has truly come from Rabb through a prophet (insightful one). People can guide by becoming ascended in mind in which state their mind will be more transcendent and therefore have more clarity in their perception.

And if we become insightful then this is because Rabb is in us and we are in Rabb, there is no separation between us.

Be well
Amenuel

Man_of_Faith

Humanity has a better chance of prosperity without religion. In particular Islam. If you look at history and present-day it is unable to reform.
That's not to say I am against it. I support reform. However, some of you are ready to move on to the next stage. I'm here to facilitate that )

The best "chance of prosperity" is with clarity of mind.

imrankhawaja

@ mof you are also insightful perosn isnt it?

good_logic

Peace Man Of Faith.

Please reflect on what you said,Quote

This I do not agree with you on though. Quran was made written by Rabb or to say an insightful prophet who were in the Rabb and the Rabb in him (or could be her). The "bullshit" is whatever story has been fabricated about Quran on what it should say. Few people are objective though, this is correct, and that is why no one has challenged to established interpretation on a wider scale and why the current flimsy version of it is still accepted. To read Quran as intended it needs a complete reevaluation.

Then you go on to add,quote

This is true. Quran is full of hate. The god is completely out of control and will condemn people eternally for not believing in it. It is like a megalomaniac dictator who just cannot get enough of attention and will execute anyone who does not accept him. No one ever reflects on it that way.

And ,quote

Quran seems to make little distinction between man and woman, not prioritizing it as something important. We only have genders in the body while the spirit is asexual. For a bodily/worldly person the gender might be important.

Is this not confusing?
I thought the Arabic Qoran says the same things since over 1400 years ago? Where do you see the contradictions?
Yes,brother,I forgot, you are going to explain it in your next post?
GOD bless you.
Peace

imrankhawaja

Peace Man Of Faith.

Please reflect on what you said,Quote

This I do not agree with you on though. Quran was made written by Rabb or to say an insightful prophet who were in the Rabb and the Rabb in him (or could be her). The "bullshit" is whatever story has been fabricated about Quran on what it should say. Few people are objective though, this is correct, and that is why no one has challenged to established interpretation on a wider scale and why the current flimsy version of it is still accepted. To read Quran as intended it needs a complete reevaluation.

Then you go on to add,quote

This is true. Quran is full of hate. The god is completely out of control and will condemn people eternally for not believing in it. It is like a megalomaniac dictator who just cannot get enough of attention and will execute anyone who does not accept him. No one ever reflects on it that way.

And ,quote

Quran seems to make little distinction between man and woman, not prioritizing it as something important. We only have genders in the body while the spirit is asexual. For a bodily/worldly person the gender might be important.

Is this not confusing?
I thought the Arabic Qoran says the same things since over 1400 years ago? Where do you see the contradictions?
Yes,brother,I forgot, you are going to explain it in your next post?
GOD bless you.
Peace

yes it happens always people like GL ask difficult questions from prophets (insightful) people... and they will reply always .. its another matter out of million followers only 5 can hardly understand and beleive on some of the insightful persons..theories

same like every actor not get popular like shahrukh khan...
every insightful perosn not get popular like prophet muhammad...

very simple and logical..