Faith no more
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Peace FaithNoMore,
Welcome back to the forum. welcome
I have been around on this forum for a long time and I am pretty sure if I knew your old name, I would recognize you instantly!
Yes you would my brother. group
I am pretty sure that you are a "muslim"/peacemaker as well if you are not a criminal (6835). Please correct me if I am wrong. All of us are one in reality and being a "muslim"/peacemaker and helping others by doing good deeds is actually helping oneself!
Yes I am a muslim according to you and I appreciate that. I am kafir according to the Quran for simple crime that I say it is not the word of God, but the work of man.
That makes me lowest of lows. Worst than a believing murderer rapist scumbag.As far as the science verses are concerned, I have been stumped by bones coming before flesh in the embryology verses. I happened to study embryology in great detail (as part of my truth seeking and verification per 4153), and know that in reality the bones and muscles form simultaneously. Actually cartilage and muscle form simultaneously and bones come later on. I have also been troubled by the "projectile" verses, since I have studied astronomy in great detail as well.
Agreed. When I get time I will open a new thread for this and share my findings with you. In the meantime Search for The Rationalizer on youtube.
The cosmology verses use words that can go either way and are not necessarily geocentric or pointing to flat earth.
That was my belief too. I will present my evidence on this topic at some point. There's only one of me and I'm trying to respond to 20.
My geology studies have led me to a similar conclusion as yours.
I agree that a lot of people including me have fallen victim to various logical fallacies such as circular reasoning, begging the question, strawman, unwarranted assumptions, false analogies, argument from ignorance, false dilemma, deductive fallacy etc. in order to justify dogmatic preconceptions, biases and blind beliefs which seriously hinders truth seeking.
I try to follow the quranic methodology of using inner compass/intuition (3030), mind/reason (482, 2368, 3829), knowledge (1736), real world evidence in form of truths in horizons and within ourselves (4153, 5120-21) and careful investigation (494) for verification of ANY STATEMENT before blindly believing.
Agreed.
Most of the Islamic history was fabricated and manufactured after burning thousands of original books.
But you can study it as a historian. You can ask yourself why people fabricated hadith. What was the inspiration for Sharia.
How was the mindset of the early muslims shaped. You will see the road goes back to the Quran.Aren't we creating a new tafseer here on this forum?
I agree with not idolizing the quran. Even the quran never promotes "quran alone" but "God alone" and advises you to verify its own truth using what I call "quranic methodology".
Yes I do concede the message of monotheism is rock solid in the Quran.
The quran does have many profound and amazing truths though (e.g. 2115, 262 etc.), but is not the only source of truths. The truths are in the horizons and within ourselves as well which should be used to verify the truth of the quran itself (4153).
Agreed. Although 262 is abrogated by 385. The Quran is in two parts. Meccan verses and Medinan verses.
Meccan verses are peaceful, because Mohamed was weak. As soon as he gained power in Medina the violent intolerant verses came.
Look at his life, one wife in Mecca vs many in Medina. The guy flipped. Classic example of how power corrupts.
Read the Quran in revelation order and you'll see the tone change.
The fear based messages and an angry, wrathful, vengeful, and jealous god have troubled me as well.
The misogyny, patriarchy, and discrimination against women has troubled me as well.
Brother, how many lives have these verses ruined. Why would God put a "wife beating" verse knowing that it would be abused, and wait 1400 years to reveal it's true meaning by Quranists.
He coud have easliy said "admonish them, leave them but never ever beat them". He didn't, because it's not from God.
Yes, there are peaceful verses. But they are just a politician talking. Even Hitler said nice things now and then.
Imagine if Trump said "Muslims are pigs and apes" and there was uproar.
Would you say "hey don't take Trump out of context." We literally let the Quran get away with murder.
You are a good muslim because you put reason over revelation. Majority won't. History is my witness.
Hadith and sharia are inspired by the misogyny of the Quran.
Sanaa manuscripts provide undeniable and unequivocal evidence of possible tampering with the original text of the quran. In at least one verse, there is evidence of addition of "painful punishment in hereafter" at a later time. I suspect the original text of the quran might not have mentioned any "eternal fire in hereafter".
I am awaiting the discovery of the original text of the quran (8521-22) for verification of the truth (4153).
I can't wait anymore. It breaks my heart to see the state of the muslim world.
I contributed to the problem, by sanitizing and apologizing for the Quran. I called critics kafir and misundestood their motives.It's not the literalist extremist who are the problem. It us intellectual apologists who are the problem.
We are amazing at coming up with excuses for the Quran.Science is one of the tools for verification of the truth. The problem is knowledge obtained through science has been shown to be wrong as well sometimes.
Yes and when it's wrong we can correct it without being called a kafir.
Scientist reveal the truth without claims of divine authority. Their claims can be examined and refuted. A prophet however is untouchable.
Therefore I don't think God would ever send prophets. Imagine if Einstien said "E=mc2 and whoever denies this is a kafir and an enemy of Allah".But we are perfectly ok when Quran makes such assertions. I thought truth was evident.
I feel I have firm knowledge of existence of the Creator. Please see the following
Good. I have no problem with God. I have a problem with the God of the Quran.
I thought I had the "perspective" defense for the setting of sun discrepancy but the video blows that defense out of the water and utterly destroys it! I am speechless hmm wow
And they won't, not without some serious mental gymnastics.
No wonder no one here has been able to refute it. Instead I see obvious evasion tactics used by at least one poster.
Yes I will deal with them in due course. First I need to create that spark of skepticism, otherwise it's a waste of time.
Wow, amazing analogy. I have firm belief and evidence that the true infinite Creator has unconditional love for ALL CREATION and no matter how many mistakes you make, it will always give you another chance and make sure you make it to your destination.
Yes, my brother .... that's real mercy and love.
May the infinite Creator guide us all to the truth.
Amen.
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sometimes its better to look around before cross the road.... )
now look around again... before and after 4153 all of you... brothers and sisters...
4152 Say, ?Think If this (revelation) is from God, and then you reject it! Who is further astray than one who stubbornly opposes it?? tempt
What if it's not from God. Then surely who stubbornly sticks to it is astray.
4153 Soon, shall We show them Our signs in the utmost Horizons and within themselves until it becomes obvious to them that this Qur?an is certainly the Truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is Witness to all things (including this proclamation)? within themselves signs(ayat) i already describe .. the ayats regarding horizons and stuff like 2130 big bang exapanding universe and so on is also need to be ponder... but either way the discoveries of these signs what mention in quran regarding both claims are successfully achieved...
Dude, there is no big bang in the Quran. Quran plagiarizes ancient Sumerian beliefs.
A little bit of research will show you that.
4154 Indeed, they are in doubt about meeting their Lord; but He is Encompassing over all things.
may God bless us wisdom to understand some things which are not really difficult ... hail
Amen.
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Beautiful. And for what crime must the kafir be hated? Is it that he doesn't share your belief?
Yes it is beautiful, it would be an evil book if it did not condemn all the kafirs.
red you said you read and studied the quran, so this should not be a difficult question to answer for yourself.
blue Is it that you answer your own questions for others with what you like to hear? -
Yes it is beautiful, it would be an evil book if it did not condemn all the kafirs.
red you said you read and studied the quran, so this should not be a difficult question to answer for yourself.
blue Is it that you answer your own questions for others with what you like to hear?I did answer it. Quran has no tolerance for people with different beliefs. Therefore I have no tolerance for the Quran.
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?Man We did create From a quintessence (of clay); Then We placed him As (a drop of) sperm In a place of rest, firmly fixed; Then We made the sperm Into a clot of congealed blood; Then of that clot We made A (foetus) lump; then We Made out of that lump Bones and clothed the bones With flesh; then We developed Out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, The Best to create!?
In this verse Allah states that man is created from a small quantity of liquid which is placed in a place of rest, firmly fixed (well established or lodged) for which the Arabic word qar?rin mak?n is used.( Science has confirmed in recent times that only one out of an average of three million sperms is required for fertilising the ovum. This means that only a 1/three millionth part or 0.00003% of the quantity of sperms that are emitted is required for fertilisation.)
The uterus is well protected from the posterior by the spinal column supported firmly by the back muscles. The embryo is further protected by the amniotic sac containing the amniotic fluid. Thus the foetus has a well protected dwelling place. This small quantity of fluid is made into alaqah, meaning something which clings. It also means a leech-like substance. Both descriptions are scientifically acceptable as in the very early stages the foetus clings to the wall and also appears to resemble the leech in shape. It also behaves like a leech (blood sucker) and acquires its blood supply from the mother through the placenta. The third meaning of the word alaqah is a blood clot. During this alaqah stage, which spans the third and fourth week of pregnancy, the blood clots within closed vessels. Hence the embryo acquires the appearance of a blood clot in addition to acquiring the appearance of a leech. In 1677, Hamm and Leeuwenhoek were the first scientists to observe human sperm cells (spermatozoa) using a microscope. They thought that a sperm cell contained a miniature human being which grew in the uterus to form a newborn. This was known as the perforation theory. When scientists discovered that the ovum was bigger than the sperm, it was thought by De Graf and others that the foetus existed in a miniature form in the ovum. Later, in the 18th century Maupertuis propagated the theory of biparental inheritance. The alaqah is transformed into mudghah which means ?something that is chewed (having teeth marks)? and also something that is tacky and small which can be put in the mouth like gum. Both these explanations are scientifically correct. Prof. Keith Moore took a piece of plaster seal and made it into the size and shape of the early stage of foetus and chewed it between the teeth to make it into a ?Mudgha?. He compared this with the photographs of the early stage of foetus. The teeth marks resembled the ?somites? which is the early formation of the spinal column.
This mudghah is transformed into bones (iz?m). The bones are clothed with intact flesh or muscles (lahm). Then Allah makes it into another creature.Prof. Marshall Johnson is one of the leading scientists in US, and is the head of the Department of Anatomy and Director of the Daniel Institute at the Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia in US. He was asked to comment on the verses of the Qur?aan dealing with embryology. He said that the verses of the Qur?aan describing the embryological stages cannot be a coincidence. He said it was probable that Muhammad (pbuh) had a powerful microscope. On being reminded that the Qur?aan was revealed 1400 years ago, and microscopes were invented centuries after the time of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Prof. Johnson laughed and admitted that the first microscope invented could not magnify more than 10 times and could not show a clear picture. Later he said ?I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that Divine intervention was involved when Muhammad (pbuh) recited the Qur?aan.?
According to Dr. Keith Moore, the modern classification of embryonic development stages which is adopted throughout the world, is not easily comprehensible, since it identifies stages on a numerical basis i.e. stage I, stage II, etc. The divisions revealed in the Qur?aan are based on distinct and easily identifiable forms or shapes, which the embryo passes through. These are based on different phases of prenatal development and provide elegant scientific descriptions that are comprehensible and practical.
Similar embryological stages of human development have been described in the following verses ?Was he not a drop Of sperm emitted (In lowly form)? Then did he become a clinging clot; Then did (Allah) make and fashion (him) In due proportion. And of him He made Two sexes, male and female.?
?Him Who created thee, fashioned thee in due proportion, And gave thee a just bias; In whatever Form He wills, Does He put thee together.?According to Prof. Johnson, if we describe the embryo as a complete creation, then we are only describing that part which is already created. If we describe it as an incomplete creation, then we are only describing that part which is not yet created. So, is it a complete creation or an incomplete creation? There is no better description of this stage of embryogenesis than the Qur?aanic description, ?partly formed and partly unformed?, as in the following verse ?We created you Out of dust, then out of Sperm, then out of a leech-like Clot, then out of a morsel Of flesh, partly formed And partly unformed.?
i always give gifts so a gift about one more thing regarding stage of embroylogy is in next post
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2aaM73CRBI
Please watch it and educate yourself.
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The first sense to develop in a developing human embryo is hearing. The foetus can hear sounds after the 24th week. Subsequently, the sense of sight is developed and by the 28th week, the retina becomes sensitive to light.
Consider the following Qur?aanic verses related to the development of the senses in the embryo ?And He gave You (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (And understanding).?
?Verily We created Man from a drop Of mingled sperm, In order to try him So We gave him (the gifts), Of Hearing and Sight.?
?It is He Who has created For you (the faculties of) Hearing, sight, feeling And understanding little thanks It is ye give!?
In all these verses the sense of hearing is mentioned before that of sight. Thus the Qur?aanic description matches with the discoveries in modern embryology.
peace yeah
Wrong again. It all happens at the same time. If anything the eye development starts first (week 5).
http//homepage.smc.edu/wissmann_paul/anatomy2textbook/embryo.jpg
You are confusing with when the baby opens it's eyes. That happens at week 26.
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tomorrow i will give some more lectures on other concepts like cosmology and moutnains stuff if God willing
together towards the boss of all books QURAN cheeeeers budy...
i remember once a attitude of a big player of football,, he kicked the football... but football just hit the pole... he claimed my kick was correct but the dimemshans of pole is not correct double check it... and he was right ..... rotfl rotfl
even if was not a true event i have no issue i get the message what he want to convey...lol..
i believe my lord is free of mistakes... and request to all of my brothers and sisters.. read it very carefully before making any claims... which contradicts the very teaching of quran..
peace and God bless you all group
No please don't clutter this thread with your nonsense. Create your own thread.
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What if it's not from God. Then surely who stubbornly sticks to it is astray.
well.. produce your proof then,, bring an alternative that qualified the same status... logic.. prophecies ... etc..
then we can understand what your are claiming hold any water...
burden of proof is on the head of people who claim its not from God... in last 1400 years challange is still standing...
Dude, there is no big bang in the Quran. Quran plagiarizes ancient Sumerian beliefs.
what is the defination of bigbang... big blast....?
what is the intepretation of 2130 ?
watch a documentry God particle..hope so you get a glimpse of it...in that case if quran is plagarise.. i wonder how he plagrised only what is truth... yes
did he also plagarised that the body of pharooh will discover one day...
did he also plagarised... there is a hidden barrier between sweet and salty water..
did he also plagarised that in there is darnkness in the deep ocean...
did he also plagarised the sun and moon are in motion... 40 years ago sciecne take a uturn... but 1400 years ago somebody comes up with truth... pr
did he also plagarised... heavens without pillars... cant you see? hahaha whereas the the stuff from which it plagarised claim heavens have pillars... nice fluke... i really amazed.... bravo
did he also plagarised the expansion of space ... bravo i wonder more....about his luck...
did he also plagarised light of moon is the reflected light...
did he also plagarised sun also rotates
did he also plagarised THE EXISTENCE OF SUBATOMIC PARTICLESwater cycle,
did he also plagarised every living thing is made up of water?
did he also plagarised PLANTS CREATED IN PAIRS, MALE AND FEMALE
as well as FRUITS CREATED IN PAIRS, MALE AND FEMALEHONEY HAS HEALING PROPERTIES list going on...
i just discuss what is a fact... of today... and it was there 1400 years ago...
in the end i remember some important verses to mention...
223 If you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful
224 And if you cannot do this; and you will not be able to do this; then beware the Fire whose fuel is people and stones, it has been prepared for the rejecters.
2440 Or like the darkness out in a deep ocean in the midst of violent waves, with waves upon waves and dark clouds. Darkness upon darkness, if he brings out his own hand, he could barely see it. For whomever God does not make a light, he will have no light.
RED big challange with the height of confidence
GREEN scientific fact before warning ...
BLUE nice advice and warnings its also true... becoz some people even after reading and finding truth have no light..pharoah is example amazing isnt it... !height of plagarism hahaha
the person whoever plagarised it... must b scientist, predtictor, historian, deep diver of ocean, space traveller, philospher, litereture expert.. equipped with modern instruments ... i amazed really becoz this text is on the face of planet not less than 1400 years atleast...
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https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2aaM73CRBI
Please watch it and educate yourself.
well its better if you give that advice to DR moore.. probably he will listen you.. becoz i feel you are more expert in that field.. isnt it &
dnt forget to ask for a noble prize lol
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Believe me or be punished is also done by our parents, the people that love us most in this world. When I did something wrong as a kid i remember my father or mother punishing me, did they hate me? Were they tyrants? Was it out of love?
I am sorry to hear you were punished. Parents abuse and sometimes even kill their children "out of love".
I was never punished. When I made a mistake, my parents guided me to the right way. They used logic and reason to convince me.
Sometimes they let me make mistakes, because they trusted me to find the right way... you are just a hypocrite.
Thank you ... let that Quranic language flow through you.
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No please don't clutter this thread with your nonsense. Create your own thread.
thats the reply ... i was expecting from kid who after losing the game ... said i dnt wana play with you hahahahaha rotfl rotfl
green sometimes rejector shows their real nature... how hard to try to hide it... their level of moral is always zero... once a loser always a loser... changing ur titles really dnt change the nature... handshake
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well its better if you give that advice to DR moore.. probably he will listen you.. becoz i feel you are more expert in that field.. isnt it &
dnt forget to ask for a noble prize lol
I tried to, but he has gone into hiding since every other biologist on this planet has debunked his claim. He doesn't support this view anymore.
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thats the reply ... i was expecting from kid who after losing the game ... said i dnt wana play with you hahahahaha rotfl rotfl
green sometimes rejector shows their real nature... how hard to try to hide it... their level of moral is always zero... once a loser always a loser... changing ur titles really dnt change the nature... handshake
so you have called me
- rejector
- someone with zero morals
- loser
Nice rebuttal.
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Myers's first book, The Happy Atheist, was published by Random House in August, 2013.
i forget to mention this... hahahahaha....
oh my God i forget to ask this person and you is there is any difference... you beleive in God but not the God of quran fair enough...
but this person reject God along with intelligent design... OMG help people who choose wrong path ... pr
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so you have called me
- rejector
- someone with zero morals
- loser
Nice rebuttal.
no its a methphorcial response to the people when they call somebody nonsense
and reject the truth...
and come again and again... becoz like disbeleivers they are in a state unhappy...you can applied it to you if you wish i did not address it to you...infact..
i always wanted to pay my duty to deleiver the best what i can...
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well come back to the topic mr fath no more..
look at my reply 79 in response of what you claim that quran is plagarised... logical and decent discussions plz ... if you approach emotional way it wont help you... emotions hold no water in the field of reality...
a brotherly advise
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Peace FaithNoMore,
For the purpose of our discussion
CQ = current text of the quran
OQ = original text of the quranThis is of vital importance, unless anyone can prove beyond any doubt that CQ = OQ (i.e. they are 100% identical). Additionally, whenever CQ mentions "the quran", in my understanding that refers to OQ (it is obvious that when the quran was revealed, "the quran" referred to that original positive channeling which is protected in lawh mahfouz - 8521-22). Therefore, all the "preservation" verses (159, 4142 etc.) refer to OQ in my understanding, and not to CQ, otherwise it will just be a logical fallacy of circular reasoning.
author=FaithNoMore link=topic=9608852.msg395125#msg395125 date=1473246774]
Yes I am a muslim according to you and I appreciate that.Brother, I believe that you are a muslim even according to CQ also!
4914 The nomads said "aamana"/"we believe." Say "you have not believed; but you should say "aslamna"/"we have made peace", for belief has not yet entered into your hearts." If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
4133 And who is better in saying than he who invites to God, and does good works, and says "I am from "al-muslimeen"/those who have made peace."
Do you see "the quran" or "our revelations" anywhere in 4133?
So if you accept the existence of the Creator and invite to the Creator and do good deeds, you are a "muslim"/peacemaker even according to CQ.
I am kafir according to the Quran for simple crime that I say it is not the word of God, but the work of man.
That makes me lowest of lows. Worst than a believing murderer rapist scumbag.You are not a "kafir" if you don't cover/conceal the truth after being 100% certain that it is the truth. For example, I am 100% certain of existence of the Creator. Now if I start going around telling everyone there is no Creator, I will be concealing or covering the truth and that would be "kufr".
Do you have proof that CQ = OQ in its entirety with 100% certainty? Additionally, are you 100% certain that CQ is "word of God" in its entirety? Not believing in CQ as 100% word of God cannot be "kufr" because you are not covering or concealing the truth after being 100% certain of it. "Kufr" is to cover/conceal the truth after being certain that it is the truth.
Why would the quran itself tell us that its truth will be verified through signs in the horizons and within ourselves (4153), if just the revelations present in the quran were sufficient for that verification?
Why would the quran itself tell us to use our mind/reason (482, 2368, 3829), and appeal to our inner compass/intuition (3030) and ask us for verification through knowledge (1736), if just the revelations present in the quran were sufficient for that verification?
Actually, in my understanding, if someone uses one's mind/reason, inner compass, knowledge and truths in the horizons and within oneself (as indicated in the quran), and arrives at the conclusion about a particular verse in CQ that it cannot be the truth, and therefore must not have been present in the protected OQ, and that person still upholds that it is the truth and "word of God", then that person will be a "kafir" for covering/concealing the truth after having been certain that it is not the truth, even though that person claims to believe in the quran!
But you can study it as a historian. You can ask yourself why people fabricated hadith. What was the inspiration for Sharia.
How was the mindset of the early muslims shaped. You will see the road goes back to the Quran.The road goes back not to OQ but to CQ. There is indisputable and unequivocal evidence in the form of Sanaa manuscripts that shows possible tampering of OQ most likely very shortly after revelation. So that fabricated history and the mindset goes to whatever the product of tampering was, shortly after revelation of OQ.
Please also study the following to see how they tried to destroy OQ
http//www.inthenameofallah.org/Codices%20of%20the%20Quran.html
Aren't we creating a new tafseer here on this forum?
Agreed. That is why I keep stressing everyone to use the "quranic methodology" for verification of the truth for themselves instead of blindly believing/trusting other's "tafseer", and be patient and wait for the infinite Creator to explain everything directly to oneself
7516 Do not move your tongue with it to hasten it.
7517 It is for us to gather it into its Qur'an.
7518 Thus, when we read it, you shall follow such a Qur'an.
7519 Then it is for us to explain it.Agreed. Although 262 is abrogated by 385. The Quran is in two parts. Meccan verses and Medinan verses.
No brother, it is not abrogated. 385 is about "islam" (peacemaking, state of being and not a religion) and Abraham, Moses, Jesus were all "muslimeen", without ever having read the quran. The basic message was the same, but OQ is different from the previous messages in some details such as narratives about Muhammad, Zayd, the Romans etc. So the "islam" mentioned in CQ was present way before OQ was revealed. "Whoever follows other than "islam" as "deen"" in 385 does not and cannot refer to only those after revelation of OQ.
Abraham was a "muslim"/peacemaker (small m, common noun, adjective) and not a proper name "Muslim" (capital M, proper noun) follower of a proper name religion "Islam". Those proper name words never even existed in his language.
2132 And Abraham enjoined his sons and Jacob "O my sons, God has selected the system for you, so do not die except you are MUSLIMOON/peacemakers."
367 Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Nazarene, but he was a monotheist MUSLIMAN/peacemaker; he was not of the polytheists.
Moses was a "muslim"/peacemaker
1084 And Moses said "O my people, if you believe in God, then put your trust in him if you are MUSLIMEEN/peacemakers."
Jesus was a "muslim"/peacemaker
352 So when Jesus felt their rejection, he said "Who are my supporters to God?" The disciples said "We are the supporters of God, we believe in God and we bear witness that we are MUSLIMOON/peacemakers."
Meccan verses are peaceful, because Mohamed was weak. As soon as he gained power in Medina the violent intolerant verses came.
In CQ not in OQ, unless you can prove CQ = OQ. Also the "Meccan" versus "Medinan" verse is a fabrication unless you can prove with certainty that a verse is "Meccan" versus "Medinan". Also the currently accepted "revelation order" is a fabrication in my opinion.
Look at his life, one wife in Mecca vs many in Medina. The guy flipped. Classic example of how power corrupts.
The multiple wives verses are also troubling for me. I would love to see if OQ had the same verses and they were not a later addition to justify the misogynistic attitude of the corrupters.
Brother, how many lives have these verses ruined. Why would God put a "wife beating" verse knowing that it would be abused, and wait 1400 years to reveal it's true meaning by Quranists.
He coud have easliy said "admonish them, leave them but never ever beat them". He didn't, because it's not from God.
I think the same verse in OQ was possibly tampered with later on by the misogynistic discriminatory corrupters who destroyed OQ. CQ clearly shows discrimination towards women by having a different recommendation for men versus women in 434 and 4128. Why not "abandon the men's beds" and "dharaba" the men also for the same fear of "nushuz" in 4128 instead of just a nice "reconciliation"? No one has ever been able to refute this blatant discrimination.
I called critics kafir and misundestood their motives.
I also misunderstood their posts when I first read them years ago because of my narrow mindedness, dogmatic preconceptions and biases, and not using my mind/reason/logic, intuition, knowledge and truths in the horizons and within ourselves. Now when I read those same posts I see how right they were! They could not have been "kafir" because they were trying to make others aware of the truth, not cover/conceal it!
Therefore I don't think God would ever send prophets. Imagine if Einstien said "E=mc2 and whoever denies this is a kafir and an enemy of Allah".
IMO the true God would never say that anyone who denies its message is an enemy of God. What harm can come to God by denying its message?
In my opinion, the channeling from the infinite Creator never stops and is not limited only to "prophets". The infinite Creator constantly communicates to us from within, we just have to start listening (through meditation or salat etc.). In my understanding, salat for the Creator is a close connection and intimate 2 way communication with the infinite Creator, and not just a "prayer" as used in the quran (1187).
Additionally, positive higher dimensional entities in service to the infinite Creator (similar to Gabriel), keep channeling positive messages to people so that up to date truth is available to everyone in every language.
144 And we have not sent any messenger except in the language of his people, so he may clarify for them .........................
1047 And for every nation is a messenger; so when their messenger comes, the matter is decreed between them with justice, and they are not wronged.
So where is the message in English language?
It was one of these positive channelings by positive higher dimensional entities to a group of people in 1980's that changed my life and enabled me to finally discover the truth. The amazing thing is, I accidentally discovered that message through a thread on this forum in past by a well respected poster!
The entire message is about oneness of the infinite Creator who has unconditional love for all creation, and the concept of repercussions to one's actions, doing good deeds, and spiritual development and evolution. It tells us that the same message was sent to past messengers such as Moses etc., which was corrupted by negative service to self entities later on. For the first time in life something made perfect sense to me and resonated deeply with me using the quranic methodology of verification.
If interested, I would love to share that amazing message (and other positive messages of truth I have come across that say the same thing) with you and you can verify it for yourself.
Peace
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Peace everyone,
Burden of proof is not on the one who makes a negative claim but on the one who makes a positive claim. For example
CLAIM A = "the current text of the quran is not from God in its entirety".
CLAIM B = "the current text of the quran is from God in its entirety".The burden of proof will be on the one making claim B and not on the one making claim A.
Following is an excerpt from an article on burden of proof in order to clarify rules of a logical discussion
"The instances of circumstances that provide nuanced exceptions (see below) to the rule are so few and misleading to let it appear they nullify the rule that it is far better to just state that the burden of proof is always on the claim that X exists rather than on the claim that X does not exist. It is a fallacy to claim that X exists unless you prove that there is no X. What is improper is for a person to claim that "X exists" and when asked to prove it, then the person who made the claim uses as a defense of "X exists" the next claim that no one has proven that X does not exist.
If a person claims that X exists and is real then the burden is on that person to supply some support for that claim, some evidence or proof that others can and should examine before accepting it. It is incorrect to think that X exists and is real until someone can prove that there is no X. It is also wrong to think that just because you can not prove that X exists that does not mean that X does not exist and therefore X does exist."
"The person making a negative claim cannot logically prove nonexistence. And here's why to know that a X does not exist would require a perfect knowledge of all things (omniscience). To attain this knowledge would require simultaneous access to all parts of the world and beyond (omnipresence). Therefore, to be certain of the claim that X does not exist one would have to possess abilities that are non-existent. Obviously, mankind's limited nature precludes these special abilities."
http//www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialsciences/ppecorino/phil_of_religion_text/CHAPTER_5_ARGUMENTS_EXPERIENCE/Burden-of-Proof.htm
Peace
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Yes it is beautiful, it would be an evil book if it did not condemn all the kafirs.
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Very beautiful , Ben
seems he didn't know the definition of kafir