Faith no more
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according to surah al-kafirun, the quran has great tolerance for kafirs - just let them be - and thats based on standard sectarian translation.
seriously , sura 109 - is that everything the Quran has to say about the kafir.
That's a meccan sura by the way. The tone of the Quran changes.
What if Obama said. "Muslims are free to follow their faith, but the curse of God is upon them. They are the worst of people. Don't take friends from among them"
Would you say that's o.k?
The Quran repeatedly dehumanizes non-believers. That is the pretext for every genocide in human history.
These verses incite violence and prejudicial action. There is very strong causal link demonstrated by 1400 years of history and present day.
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I am sure 'Faith No More' feels better off spiritually after abandoning these teachings today and then have returned to this forum because since he felt he feels so much better today he thinks that he could help others feel the same. I am sure that his intentions are completely sincere in that regard and are wholehearted.
If I understand 'Faith No More's case he feels the teachings of Quran as they appear to him to be highly spiritually detrimental to people and this is why he decided to go online to make people aware of that.
True and appreciated. Man of faith.
I'm sorry but this might come across as harsh. group
Your view is a niche view and will never be accepted by the 1.6 billion Muslims. History has shown this. You are not the first to attempt this.
Also you are assuming that Quran is from God despite over whelming evidence (ref truthseeker's posts) that shows we can't even tell if it's from Mohammed.
There are much better books, evidence, ideas to help humanity live a better life.
What you seem to do is find or arrive at a good idea from your world experience today. You might read a book or look at scientific research and add your own personal bias to arrive at that idea.
The you try and force that idea into the Quran so that you can claim that the Quran knew about that idea first.
Never in the history of the Quran has it ever been on the right side of any moral argument. We always blame it on "interpretation" never the book itself.
For example take homosexuality.
Through research and real world observation you might determine that it's perfectly natural and o.k. Then you will go into the and Quran twist the Lot story and other verses.
Ignore history where necessary and say "Hey, the Quran is ok with gay sex".I did that...for many years. It's a disease of the mind. It's called cognitive dissonance.
You are prolonging the painful death of Islam (in fact all religions). It wants to die and be at peace with Thor and Zeus, but people like you won't let it be.
I want you to fully understand the role you are playing today in the suffering of the Muslim world just so that you can cling to your beliefs.
peace
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How is being gay natural and ok? Go try it if it's so natural and tell me how you feel about it. Unless you are into these disgusting acts already, which makes you worse than an animal, since they know how to differentiate between male and female.
Quran didn't lead to any murders or wars in the last 1400 years, it's human nature you idiot. Last 15 years, over a million muslims killed by western countries, was it because of the Quran? And they have all the democracies, freedom of speech, human rights, etc...
Ofc kafirs are the worst, they deny their creator. It's like they are the failed subjects in an experiment that need to be thrown away at the end.
You are using the same arguments any non believer would use and act as if a world without the Quran is a better place but you never look at the otherside. Like I said, hell is waiting for you on the other side, I know you are trying hard here to convince yourself and others to follow you just like what Satan did and is still doing. Its fear and hatred but you are the loser in the end.
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The word "appeared" does not occur in these verses. Have you checked the Arabic or you inventing your own tafseer.
Also he doesn't reach the "setting of sun" that's a verbal phrase.
1886 uses a noun phrase. Maghrib-al-Shams which means setting-place of the sun.
An example of a verbal phrase can be found in 20130 Tuluay-al-Shams (rising of the sun)
Check this presentation and educate yourself.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVwizsojd1Y
(18861)
att
Until, INC ? inceptive particle(18862)
idh
when T ? time adverb(18863)
balagha
he reached V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb(18864)
maghriba
(the) setting place N ? accusative masculine noun(18865)
l-shamsi
(of) the sun, N ? genitive feminine noun Sun(18866)
wajadah
he found it V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
PRON ? 3rd person feminine singular object pronoun
??
(18867)
taghrubu
setting V ? 3rd person feminine singular imperfect verb(1886
f
in P ? preposition(18869)
aynin
a spring N ? genitive feminine indefinite noun(188610)
ami-atin
(of) dark mud, ADJ ? genitive feminine singular indefinite adjective(188611)
wawajada
and he found CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb(188612)
indah
near it LOC ? accusative location adverb
PRON ? 3rd person feminine singular possessive pronoun
??
(188613)
qawman
a community. N ? accusative masculine indefinite noun(188614)
in case your eyesight is weak... i make the size bit bigger... if still not work then use magnifying glass...
RED
about my education , i dnt need to show you... the thing which is relevent i just present it...
but you cannot see it untill your eyes with the seal of blindness, ears with the seal of dufness and heart with the seal of rejectection.... as per 27...
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https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVwizsojd1Y
hey GUYS watch this video from a joker.... rotfl rotfl rotfl
a person with mask... hahahahah spider man... i just talk about 27 and intrestingly a practical example is there...
this shows a lier and devil always hide them like a famous proverb... after watching a cat rat always hide him undercover/underground... hahahahaha
truth always speak without any afraid in the presence of thousands people... while liar always hide himself like the video guy did...
all his claims are nonsense and illogical... lot of live debates already cleared it... i will post a video even its from traditonal muslim how he cleared it ...
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpwsQGl8oIE
i laugh on the part when he say i will all answer all 20 mistakes together... a book by alfaidi....
height of confidence with truth
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How is being gay natural and ok? Go try it if it's so natural and tell me how you feel about it. Unless you are into these disgusting acts already, which makes you worse than an animal, since they know how to differentiate between male and female.
Quran didn't lead to any murders or wars in the last 1400 years, it's human nature you idiot. Last 15 years, over a million muslims killed by western countries, was it because of the Quran? And they have all the democracies, freedom of speech, human rights, etc...
Ofc kafirs are the worst, they deny their creator. It's like they are the failed subjects in an experiment that need to be thrown away at the end.
You are using the same arguments any non believer would use and act as if a world without the Quran is a better place but you never look at the otherside. Like I said, hell is waiting for you on the other side, I know you are trying hard here to convince yourself and others to follow you just like what Satan did and is still doing. Its fear and hatred but you are the loser in the end.
Man of Faith, this is what the Quran alone movement has produced after 20 years.
After 100 years they will have same interpretation as ISIS.
How many examples do you need that it's the Quran that is the source of hate, intolerance and backwardness. It regresses the mind.
You know the great Muslims of the so called Golden age were all heretics, atheist and agnostics. That's why we burned all their books.
Please reflect on what I am saying.
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(18861)
att
Until, INC ? inceptive particle(18862)
idh
when T ? time adverb(18863)
balagha
he reached V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb(18864)
maghriba
(the) setting place N ? accusative masculine noun(18865)
l-shamsi
(of) the sun, N ? genitive feminine noun Sun(18866)
wajadah
he found it V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
PRON ? 3rd person feminine singular object pronoun
??
(18867)
taghrubu
setting V ? 3rd person feminine singular imperfect verb(1886
f
in P ? preposition(18869)
aynin
a spring N ? genitive feminine indefinite noun(188610)
ami-atin
(of) dark mud, ADJ ? genitive feminine singular indefinite adjective(188611)
wawajada
and he found CONJ ? prefixed conjunction wa (and)
V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb(188612)
indah
near it LOC ? accusative location adverb
PRON ? 3rd person feminine singular possessive pronoun
??
(188613)
qawman
a community. N ? accusative masculine indefinite noun(188614)
in case your eyesight is weak... i make the size bit bigger... if still not work then use magnifying glass...
RED
about my education , i dnt need to show you... the thing which is relevent i just present it...
but you cannot see it untill your eyes with the seal of blindness, ears with the seal of dufness and heart with the seal of rejectection.... as per 27...
Oh thank-you for typing this out and highlighting the BOTH occurrences wajada
Saved me the trouble.
You know wajada literally means to find or discover something. In this case our hero finds/discovers that the sun sets in a spring.
Also are you saying that in the first case wajada means he thought he saw the sun going into (Fi) spring and but then in the second case it means he really did find a community next to it.
Holy shit .... that's some mental gymnastics going on there.
If the sun was on the horizon how can the community (qawamn) be near it (indaha)?
Remember this is a spring (Ayn) not sea (bahr).
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Man of Faith, this is what the Quran alone movement has produced after 20 years.
After 100 years they will have same interpretation as ISIS.
How many examples do you need that it's the Quran that is the source of hate, intolerance and backwardness. It regresses the mind.
You know the great Muslims of the so called Golden age were all heretics, atheist and agnostics. That's why we burned all their books.
Please reflect on what I am saying.
You are a person that believes being homo is natural. Your opinions are invalid.
I don't care about the religion of who ever these people were in the golden age. Even some sunni muslims are very successful now, it has nothing to do with religion.
Next time start posting evidence instead of just attacking the Quran.
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Oh thank-you for typing this out and highlighting the BOTH occurrences wajada
welcome for this...
Saved me the trouble.
you are already in a trouble yes
You know wajada literally means to find or discover something. In this case our hero finds/discovers that the sun sets in a spring.
RED ? discover and find do you think there is any difference in between two... dis-cover , find..
my eyes find the shape of star is like five angle light..
my telescope dis-cover no its a sun like star.... hmmAlso are you saying that in the first case wajada means he thought he saw the sun going into (Fi) spring and but then in the second case it means he really did find a community next to it.
Holy shit .... that's some mental gymnastics going on there.
haha shit is in your mind ... a gymnastic of rejection is going on there...
If the sun was on the horizon how can the community (qawamn) be near it (indaha)?
look at my example i just given...
finding something on earth by eyes infront of you and finding something on jupiter by eyes(with telescope)... whats the difference ? elektro rings of jupiter ooops lol
your mask man never told you what is difference between literal.. and views and eyes?
actually i just want to share with you my favourite place for spending time...
i always wanted to see sun is setting in the sea...in the time of setting of sun.. i keep it watching in sea.. i feel great..
and if my mom call me and ask me what r u doing i replied her,, mom i m watching sun is setting in sea... its beautiful view...
thats y i love when i found it setting in the sea... or some murky waters lol.... and i also found out sometimes community around me half naked lol hahaha ...
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trust me i remember once a guy he just convert to athiesm due to the fault of bisexulity...
and first thing he was trying to do was to find a single error in quran..
criminals/rejectors always have issue , from God , from society .. if they want to do what is not liked by others... they simply reject the rules .
people are confuse in titles like islam christanity and judiasm...
all of them untill obey commands are the righteous as soon they challange God and start doing things like gay lesbian/ killing/ stealing/ raping/ robing they are in the catagory of rejectors... simple is that...
after that if somebody feels and thing he/she did something wrong and repent from God then its a different matter..
this guy continuously blame muslims without understnding a simple defination of quran...
every muslim(traditional or non traditional) is not righteous always
every righteous is not always a title muslim( ) in brackets put it whatever you want if you beleive in God you must obey the commandments of God ... just a simple logical rule...only who have sickness in mind reject and disobeys the signs of God..
and their state is like this ... they are focusing on the view of eyes instead of telling the weakness what is their fault actually which lead them towards rejecting... i hope nobody dare to share it.. becoz inside they know its wrong... same with the guy who i just mention becoz in the end he requested me not to disclose his habbit in the staff becoz i feel it shameful to accept i m bisexul specially due to islamic community.. i feel just sympathy for him at that time...
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my eyes find the shape of star is like five angle light..
Notice how you inserted the word like. There is no word "like" in 1886. It's just wajada not wajada like.
Clearly, you don't know English or Arabic.
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Notice how you inserted the word like. There is no word "like" in 1886. It's just wajada not wajada like.
Clearly, you don't know English or Arabic.
actually i think you did not get lessons in the class you dnt know how to explain somebody with examples....specially when its difficult for them to understand...
ok sun like stars mean there shape is not five angled but their size is sometimes bigger than sun... but shape is same like sun... OMG rotfl
ok if you want to remove like remove it , statement will again give same meanings...
i play another example now...
my telescope eyes dis-covers rings around saturn...
other way round my eyes find shape of star is five angle... see i didnt use like now... because some students are really weak to understand things... happy
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my telescope eyes dis-covers rings around saturn...
Are those rings (a) real or (b) imaginary?
Answer a or b ... don't do a long post.
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Are those rings (a) real or (b) imaginary?
Answer a or b ... don't do a long post.
five star shape of star is imagiary or real?
views are imagiary or real...?
images is imaginary or real?
drop a coin in a swimming pool you will see coin is moving ... its imagary or real?
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Man of Faith, this is what the Quran alone movement has produced after 20 years.
After 100 years they will have same interpretation as ISIS.
How many examples do you need that it's the Quran that is the source of hate, intolerance and backwardness. It regresses the mind.
You know the great Muslims of the so called Golden age were all heretics, atheist and agnostics. That's why we burned all their books.
Please reflect on what I am saying.
Yes because one person's interpretation represents all of us? Like any of us represent the whole of the "movement"?
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i remeber one of my teacher was colour blind rotfl rotfl
he cannot decide what is real or what is unreal based on the disabilty of the views of eyes...
for example zulqarnain , if he was color blind the verse should be like this... zulqarnian found the grass is blue...
but if quran use correct color of grass then there would be a contradiction...
i still wonder when news paper write the times of sunset and sunrise... why becoz , sun never sets rotfl rotfl rotfl
all newspapers need to change the statement from sunset to diappearing of sun from horizon ...
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Got it, understood. There was a miscommunication then and I apologize. D group
So beautiful! o
Nay, don't apologize. I should have been a little clear.
rotfl i remember once a colleage from work ask me the same question she told me there is a scientific error... that sun set in murky water...
infact it not a error at all... it appears to zulqurnain that sun is setting in murky water.. same like the picture... !
Many people have no idea about the beautiful murky water sunset and many seem to have the misconception that the Book is related to just the Arab lands.
Periodically, fromm time to time we get in the forum a person (whether it is always or some ime he ame with a differentnick or not, I don't know) a person who says hat he was a former forum member but that now he has seen better and does not believe in h Qur'an and hen undetkes, for our benefit, I suppose, to ter tdown all our false beliefs.
And he does so that he takes as unshakable truth all he deffects usually adscribed to he Qur'an by foes or friends and which are the most typical false aributions to Qur'an that Qur'an believers usually reject while rescueing while rayig to get the best understanding the ost faithful o he text of the Qur'an.
I happes every so often, so mmuch so hat I feel like giving it he name of
3eid al kafir
because i return faithfully wha, every year? every somany months, and it is always the same. hey look like a photocopy. And the aim I still am nno sure rescue us? Make us look bad as idiots in search of the hidden trasure of the annunakis?
No doubt , to a certain extent it enlives the forum little. For those of us who have been here long though it looses interest and luster and increases distrust of he genuinity of the the perso or personnns and the endeavour.
My commendations to those who take the time to answer these 3eid al kafirs guests. May be some of them cn also answer Why do these Qur'an obssessed 3eid al kafirers do it. Do they get inn each round so mny converts? They have an unshakable hope hat some time they will make a convert to anti Qur'an?
Salaam
Very true. It is the same thing again and again. This is something I have noticed so far
The Quran follower who claims to be all devoted to the Book gets missing from the forum for a while.
Then he comes back to declare he is no more a believer. And of course, then he starts to go with 'oh, Quran has errors', 'Quran has hate', etc. When that doesn't work he brings in ISIS.Yeah, I did respond to those threads before, but now no more simply because if a person even after rejecting sects or other religions read and see Quran like them then it is better for him to stay away from it. Otherwise, we will end up seeing blood shedding in the of "Quranists".
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Peace Imran.
I agree.The logic for "The sun setting in murky water" is simple
1-Scientifically one can easily say the sun does not set anywhere, it is moving around in its own orbit independently.
2-One can view the sun as setting somewhere. i.e One can find the sun setting in murky water or the sea or the mountains etc... What is the problem? Where is the mistake in Qoran?
3- Because Qoran says " He found the sun sets in murky water on earth" everybody should know,since the sun and earth are two distinct and separate objects, one does not set in the other!!!!!! Hence one can view this cosmic phenomenon as such!!!!!
I fail to see any problem here, what is the matter with some of the reasoning?
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Salaam everyone I found this article about the sun setting verse made by Siraj Islam a quran only muslim
https//lampofislam.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/does-the-quran-say-that-the-sun-sinks-in-a-muddy-lake/
Does the Quran really say that the Sun sinks in a murky lake?
Question The Quran says that Zul-qarnain REACHED the place where the sun sinks in a murky lake (1886). So, god thinks there is a setting place of the sun on the earth!
Can you refute this very obvious SCIENTIFIC ERROR in the Quran?
Answer Before drawing any conclusion, we would first like to have a look into the issue.
A CLOSER LOOK INTO 1886
Let us read the verse in its context
So he followed a course, 1885
Until, when he REACHED A SETTING of the Sun, it APPEARED to him that it was SETTING in a murky spring. 1886
On a closer study of the above, and the highlighted words in particular, we get the following findings
The verse narrates a setting of the Sun, not a drowning of the Sun
Translated here as a setting, the word maghrib derives from gharaba (blacken, darken), which is opposite of sharaqa (shine, brighten, 3969).
Thus a setting portrays a process of blackening or darkening (gharaba’ of the Sun as appears to an observer on the Earth.
This is very DIFFERENT from an actual, physical sinking (gharaqa’ of the Sun.
The verse deals with an event of setting rather than a place of sinking
Then the phrase it was SETTING which uses the word gharaba (set, darken) instead of gharaqa (sink) further confirms that it refers to a perceptible phenomenon of Suns setting rather than a physical place of Suns drowning.
The verse refers to a setting point not the setting point of the Sun
The word maghrib (setting) in singular form occurs 7 times in the Quran (2115, 2142, 2177, 2258, 1886, 2628, 739). In all these occurrences, with the exception of 1886, it appears as al-maghrib (the setting), i.e. prefixed with al (the’.
So it is remarkable that 1886 is the only verse in the Quran where the word maghrib is without the definite article al (the’. Thus, rather than referring to THE SETTING, it actually refers to A SETTING.
In other words, in 1886 Zul-qarnain does not reach the (point of) sunset, but reaches only a (point of) sunset, i.e. only one of the many (points of) sunsets.
Elsewhere the Quran itself confirms that points of sunset are many (7040). This clarifies the Quranic position that the Sun doesnt set in a particular point only. And, therefore, the Sun never sinks in a specific place.
Please note that, though maghrib actually means a setting, we may also render it as a (point of) setting, in order to facilitate our understanding of this complex natural phenomenon of sunset.
The verse correctly states that one can reach a point of sunset
The Quran has been misjudged by the claim that one cannot reach a point of sunset.
A sunset point is a place where you experience a sunset at a given moment. However, because sunset is a space-time (four dimensional) phenomenon, the sunset point is not static but is moving around the Earth together with its axial rotation.
Let us reflect. As the Earth is spinning around itself facing the Sun, the Sun is setting continuously on successive points of the globe, while simultaneously rising on their counterparts (375, 754, 395, 7040).
Thus, at a given moment there is a specific point/place on the Earth where the perceivable event of sunset occurs. You can reach that point/place at that particular moment to experience the sunset.
Sunset comes back to that specific point approximately every 24 hours. But if you travel fast towards the west, you can reach other points of sunset, earlier than 24 hours.
Every time you experience a sunset, you are at a sunset point.
Now consider a place A on the Earth where the Sun will set today at 1000 GMT. And you are currently at one hour walking distance from that place. So now it is 900 GMT. It means that if you walk one hour towards A, you will reach a sunset point at 1000 GMT where you will experience the sunset.
The verse defines sunset as a subjective perception
Then interestingly, the phrase it APPEARED to him precisely describes sunset through the eyes of Zul-qarnain.
Thus the Quran defines sunset not within the context of an objective scientific description of the Suns motion but merely as a subjective, visual perception of an earthly observer. This concurs with the definition of sunset in modern physics.
This is further consistent with our earlier findings that the verse uses the expression setting, instead of drowning, and a setting, instead of the setting.
These are some of the examples of how the divine revelation chooses the right words and expressions.
In line with the above, 1886 should be understood as Until, when he reached a point where he perceived a setting of the Sun .
SUMMARY
We find the verse 1886 scientifically accurate due to our following observations
The verse narrates a setting of the Sun, not a drowning of the Sun.
It deals with an event of setting rather than a place of sinking.
It refers to a setting point not the setting point of the Sun. This is in line with the Quranic concept that points of sunset are many and, therefore, the Sun doesnt sink in any particular place.
It correctly states that one can reach a point of sunset.
It defines sunset as a subjective perception. This is true from a modern scientific perspective.
CONCLUSIONThe verse 1886 contains no scientific error.
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Peace Imran.
I agree.The logic for "The sun setting in murky water" is simple
1-Scientifically one can easily say the sun does not set anywhere, it is moving around in its own orbit independently.
2-One can view the sun as setting somewhere. i.e One can find the sun setting in murky water or the sea or the mountains etc... What is the problem? Where is the mistake in Qoran?
3- Because Qoran says " He found the sun sets in murky water on earth" everybody should know,since the sun and earth are two distinct and separate objects, one does not set in the other!!!!!! Hence one can view this cosmic phenomenon as such!!!!!
I fail to see any problem here, what is the matter with some of the reasoning?
GOD bless you.
Peaceexcellent GL
handshake
peace
God bless you too
