Faith no more
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Salaam everyone I found this article about the sun setting verse made by Siraj Islam a quran only muslim
https//lampofislam.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/does-the-quran-say-that-the-sun-sinks-in-a-muddy-lake/
Does the Quran really say that the Sun sinks in a murky lake?
Question The Quran says that Zul-qarnain REACHED the place where the sun sinks in a murky lake (1886). So, god thinks there is a setting place of the sun on the earth!
Can you refute this very obvious SCIENTIFIC ERROR in the Quran?
Answer Before drawing any conclusion, we would first like to have a look into the issue.
A CLOSER LOOK INTO 1886
Let us read the verse in its context
So he followed a course, 1885
Until, when he REACHED A SETTING of the Sun, it APPEARED to him that it was SETTING in a murky spring. 1886
On a closer study of the above, and the highlighted words in particular, we get the following findings
The verse narrates a setting of the Sun, not a drowning of the Sun
Translated here as a setting, the word maghrib derives from gharaba (blacken, darken), which is opposite of sharaqa (shine, brighten, 3969).
Thus a setting portrays a process of blackening or darkening (gharaba’ of the Sun as appears to an observer on the Earth.
This is very DIFFERENT from an actual, physical sinking (gharaqa’ of the Sun.
The verse deals with an event of setting rather than a place of sinking
Then the phrase it was SETTING which uses the word gharaba (set, darken) instead of gharaqa (sink) further confirms that it refers to a perceptible phenomenon of Suns setting rather than a physical place of Suns drowning.
The verse refers to a setting point not the setting point of the Sun
The word maghrib (setting) in singular form occurs 7 times in the Quran (2115, 2142, 2177, 2258, 1886, 2628, 739). In all these occurrences, with the exception of 1886, it appears as al-maghrib (the setting), i.e. prefixed with al (the’.
So it is remarkable that 1886 is the only verse in the Quran where the word maghrib is without the definite article al (the’. Thus, rather than referring to THE SETTING, it actually refers to A SETTING.
In other words, in 1886 Zul-qarnain does not reach the (point of) sunset, but reaches only a (point of) sunset, i.e. only one of the many (points of) sunsets.
Elsewhere the Quran itself confirms that points of sunset are many (7040). This clarifies the Quranic position that the Sun doesnt set in a particular point only. And, therefore, the Sun never sinks in a specific place.
Please note that, though maghrib actually means a setting, we may also render it as a (point of) setting, in order to facilitate our understanding of this complex natural phenomenon of sunset.
The verse correctly states that one can reach a point of sunset
The Quran has been misjudged by the claim that one cannot reach a point of sunset.
A sunset point is a place where you experience a sunset at a given moment. However, because sunset is a space-time (four dimensional) phenomenon, the sunset point is not static but is moving around the Earth together with its axial rotation.
Let us reflect. As the Earth is spinning around itself facing the Sun, the Sun is setting continuously on successive points of the globe, while simultaneously rising on their counterparts (375, 754, 395, 7040).
Thus, at a given moment there is a specific point/place on the Earth where the perceivable event of sunset occurs. You can reach that point/place at that particular moment to experience the sunset.
Sunset comes back to that specific point approximately every 24 hours. But if you travel fast towards the west, you can reach other points of sunset, earlier than 24 hours.
Every time you experience a sunset, you are at a sunset point.
Now consider a place A on the Earth where the Sun will set today at 1000 GMT. And you are currently at one hour walking distance from that place. So now it is 900 GMT. It means that if you walk one hour towards A, you will reach a sunset point at 1000 GMT where you will experience the sunset.
The verse defines sunset as a subjective perception
Then interestingly, the phrase it APPEARED to him precisely describes sunset through the eyes of Zul-qarnain.
Thus the Quran defines sunset not within the context of an objective scientific description of the Suns motion but merely as a subjective, visual perception of an earthly observer. This concurs with the definition of sunset in modern physics.
This is further consistent with our earlier findings that the verse uses the expression setting, instead of drowning, and a setting, instead of the setting.
These are some of the examples of how the divine revelation chooses the right words and expressions.
In line with the above, 1886 should be understood as Until, when he reached a point where he perceived a setting of the Sun .
SUMMARY
We find the verse 1886 scientifically accurate due to our following observations
The verse narrates a setting of the Sun, not a drowning of the Sun.
It deals with an event of setting rather than a place of sinking.
It refers to a setting point not the setting point of the Sun. This is in line with the Quranic concept that points of sunset are many and, therefore, the Sun doesnt sink in any particular place.
It correctly states that one can reach a point of sunset.
It defines sunset as a subjective perception. This is true from a modern scientific perspective.
CONCLUSIONThe verse 1886 contains no scientific error.
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Peace Imran.
I agree.The logic for "The sun setting in murky water" is simple
1-Scientifically one can easily say the sun does not set anywhere, it is moving around in its own orbit independently.
2-One can view the sun as setting somewhere. i.e One can find the sun setting in murky water or the sea or the mountains etc... What is the problem? Where is the mistake in Qoran?
3- Because Qoran says " He found the sun sets in murky water on earth" everybody should know,since the sun and earth are two distinct and separate objects, one does not set in the other!!!!!! Hence one can view this cosmic phenomenon as such!!!!!
I fail to see any problem here, what is the matter with some of the reasoning?
GOD bless you.
Peaceexcellent GL
handshake
peace
God bless you too -
Many people have no idea about the beautiful murky water sunset and many seem to have the misconception that the Book is related to just the Arab lands.
exactly
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five star shape of star is imagiary or real?
views are imagiary or real...?
images is imaginary or real?
drop a coin in a swimming pool you will see coin is moving ... its imagary or real?
assalamualaikum Imran
You Can?t Wake a Person Who Is Pretending to Be Asleep
in Urdu baail ka samna kutba -
The verse 1886 contains no scientific error.
hmm , years ago , the rotation of sun verse was consider scietifically worng...
but , science takes a uturn ... recently... lol
... that book quran is simply beauty at extreme... the far superior than technology and science...
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assalamualaikum Imran
You Can?t Wake a Person Who Is Pretending to Be Asleep
in Urdu baail ka samna kutbawalikum us salam pervaiz bhai..
i know but sometimes , the murky water works hahahaha... just if you speak loudly i m going to through the water on you person will awake... just kidding
i m just trying to do best for this brother ,so that he left with no issue that we did not try to exlapin him...
the beleiving and disbeleiving its his decision..
only God can make people guide
best of luck to him anyway...
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hmm , years ago , the rotation of sun verse was consider scietifically worng...
but , science takes a uturn ... recently... lol
... that book quran is simply beauty at extreme... the far superior than technology and science...
I didnt write this. This article was made by Siraj Islam https//lampofislam.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/does-the-quran-say-that-the-sun-sinks-in-a-muddy-lake/
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I didnt write this. This article was made by Siraj Islam https//lampofislam.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/does-the-quran-say-that-the-sun-sinks-in-a-muddy-lake/
no my brother i m not talking about this article,
i m actually sharing something with you that history is witness that science takes uturn lot of times but the words of quran never come across with it... becoz its from the one who posess power over all things.. lord the owner of the day of judgement hail
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no my brother i m not talking about this article,
i m actually sharing something with you that history is witness that science takes uturn lot of times but the words of quran never come across with it... becoz its from the one who posess power over all things.. lord the owner of the day of judgement hail
Oh my mistake may God (SWT) guide us all to the real truth.
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Oh my mistake may God (SWT) guide us all to the real truth.
handshake
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After 100 years they will have same interpretation as ISIS.
their interpretation is not worse then Christian Zionist ,at least they don't want to kill two thirds of human population in order to welcome Jesus
How many examples do you need that it's the Quran that is the source of hate, intolerance and backwardness. It regresses the mind.
So ....kill them so that Jesus will came and hug and say i love you -*
You know the great Muslims of the so called Golden age were all heretics, atheist and agnostics. That's why we burned all their books.
Please reflect on what I am saying.
yet another proof for Islamic tolerance
And you say Islam was/is intolerant .You have given the proof of Islamic tolerance
Did they killed those free thinkers. -
Peace everyone,
I am still studying this verse and haven't formed a conclusive opinion yet. The problem I am facing is when the quran wants to describe an "apparent illusion" or "something similar" or "comparable" it uses the root "shiin-ba-ha". For example
4157 And their saying "We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, messenger of God!" And they had not killed him, nor crucified him, but SHUBBIHA/it appeared to them as if they had.
6141 And He is the One Who initiated gardens; both trellised and untrellised; and palm trees, and plants, all with different taste; and olives and pomegranates, MUTASHABIHAN/comparable and not MUTASHABIHIN/comparable.
The triliteral root ww jm dl ( د occurs 106 times as the form I verb wajada (َ
EVERY SINGLE OCCURRENCE is for something real not an "apparent illusion". For example
337 So her Lord accepted her a good acceptance, and made her grow into a good growth, and charged Zachariah with her. Every time Zachariah entered upon her in the temple enclosure, WAJADA/he found provisions with her.
The provisions were real not an illusion.
1265 So when they opened their baggage, WAJADU/they found their goods had been returned to them
The goods were real and not an illusion and were actually returned to them.
1877 So they ventured forth until they came to the people of a town. They requested food from its people but they refused to host them. Then WAJADA/they found a wall which was close to collapsing, so he built it.
The wall was real not an illusion and was actually collapsing.
2823 When he arrived at the watering hole of Midyan, WAJADA/he found a crowd of people watering, and WAJADA/he found two women waiting on the side.
The crowd of people was real and not an illusion, and two women waiting on the side were real and not an illusion.
So the usage of the same "WAJADA" in 1886, by using the quran as its own dictionary, can only indicate something real and cannot indicate an apparent illusion.
The quran uses very precise language.
So the question that arises is, if the setting of the sun in the spring was an "apparent illusion" and not real why did it not use a word from the root "shiin-ba-ha" instead of "wajada"? Then the matter would have been crystal clear.
Also, "point of sunset" would mean the actual place where sun is setting. It does not mean "point of apparent sunset" or "a place from where sun is appearing to set". Implying that it means "point of apparent sunset" would be lying about the verse. There is no "shiin-ba-ha" there so translating it as "appeared" is a lie.
378 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.
Peace
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Peace Truthseeker.
There is nothing to study. The sun does not set anywhere for "real".
Qoran makes a clear and distinct case of sun moon and earth being separate objects. None of them sets in the other!!!!!The verse is talking "from the point of view of Dhu-Alkarnain" . We find /view the sun as setting somewhere. That is it.
Come on brother this is simple and clear. There is no issue in the verse.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
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It is like I did, 2-3 years ago I was standing before two choices, either would I abandon Quran (and probably continue to research more on the Gospels/Injeel) or continue researching on what the heck is the problem with Quran and why the teachings are so primitive. I chose the latter, but 'Faith No More' chose the first. We are similar in the way we attack Quran in some way. I am attacking the interpreters and the interpretation of it while 'Faith No More' with less meat on his legs is attacking the entire scripture, but I am sure he mostly attacks what it says in which he does not know better, and no shame on him. I do not rebuke him for not discovering that the medieval interpreters fabricated an unrelated context on top of an otherwise innocent one. These interpreters' understanding is so established today people take it dogmatically.Amenuel
Dont compare yourself with him ,MOF
you said you are against the interpreters of Quran but he is against the author of Quran .he is ignorant about the core message of quran
otherwise he will never record these wordsDear friends,
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I read the Quran now and I see how hate filled it is and uses fear to shut down your rationality. I never noticed this before but the anti-jew sentiment is rabid. The God of the Quran is a lunatic. There isn?t a single positive Jewish story. Mohammed must have really hated the Jews and it explains Banu-Qurayza..............................................
did author of Quran anywhere mention that Islam is another new religion .on the other hand Quran says the author of all religions one and the same .that is the core message of Quran
one more irrelevant quoteExcept you must seize and kill me 489.
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he seems to be product of Zionist site
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Please read the Forum Rules
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8177.0
2] Please note that this forum is primarily dedicated to God and the study and understanding of His Scripture (The Quran). Thus, mocking/ridiculing/insulting God and/or the Quran, and/or not being able to back-up claims against the Quran with specifics may result in deletion of such posts and/or removal of topic and/or disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.
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Yes because one person's interpretation represents all of us? Like any of us represent the whole of the "movement"?
When you don't speak or critique bullshit, then yes, one person who speaks the loudest does represent you all.
This is what happened in 80's with traditional Muslims. Islamists started to speak for them. Whenever the Islamist silenced a critic or bullied anyone who dared to behave differently, the moderates stood by silently. 30 years later an entire generation of Muslims has been lost to radical Islam. You know why because the moderates stood by silently? because the Islamist had a mandate
from the Quran. You can't critique Islamism without critiquing the Quran, so the moderates were stuck.This has gone too far. Only truthseeker11 has had the courage speak up, and you sit there in silence. So yes closet sunnis like Imran and Parvez do speak for all of you - while Man of faith and Wakas create an apologist smoke screen for them.
And if you don't feel knowledgeable about critiquing the Quran, then go learn it. It's not rocket science. It only feels like that when you have to do mental gymnastics.
That should be a sign that it is nothing but the ramblings of a 7th century bedouin. -
Please read the Forum Rules
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8177.0
2] Please note that this forum is primarily dedicated to God and the study and understanding of His Scripture (The Quran). Thus, mocking/ridiculing/insulting God and/or the Quran, and/or not being able to back-up claims against the Quran with specifics may result in deletion of such posts and/or removal of topic and/or disciplinary action being taken against the offending member.
Ah yes, forgot about your blasphemy laws. The Quran can mock and ridicule other faiths and people without any proof.
It can call Jews pigs and apes, prophet killers, deceivers worthy of wrath. But it can't take criticism itself.Tell me how are your blasphemy laws any different to ISIS's blasphemy laws?
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This thread has descended into unreasonable comments geared towards inciting inflammatory reactions, namely from the OP who insists on keeping the thread going in an antagonistic manner for more of the same chaotic venting. These type of threads are not welcome on this board. Start a new thread if there is any need for actual discussion, keeping it logical and to the point without hostility and without breaching the rules. Thanks.
