Hi - just a friendly note
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Peace hanslan,
In the interest of free speech, free will and finding out the truth let FNM remains in the forum.
Everyone is on a journey - everyone will come to a point of frustration - everyone will come to a point where he can't reconcile what should be and what is, everyone has a slightly different opinion, etc - there you are the marvelous creation of the creator giving all of us freewill
But heres the best part, my short interaction with FNM has made me realise that some of us have fallen into the idolatry trap. Some of us are so tuned to defend the Q we forgot what we are actually defending - thus we have made the Q as an idol.
What are we defending really? Is it the Q? Is it god? - we are just defending a set of beliefs we believe are correct at present.
bravo bravo bravo
Do good, don't do bad.
Agreed. This is the most important and most fundamental message. I found 90 occurrences of "good deeds" in the quran.
4133 And who is better in saying than he who invites to God, and does good works, and says "I am from ALMUSLIMEEN/one of those who have made peace."
May the infinite Creator bless you and guide us all to the truth.
Peace
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I'm pretty sure there is nothing personal against FNM.
Calling me a kafir is not personal?
Isn't Kafir the worst person according to the Quran?
These are simple questions nobody here answers.
People were ready to have a reasonable discussion, out of good intentions. Others were hyped to "help him out" although he wasn't here asking for help to understand the Quran.
No I don't. I have taught the Quran to many people here. I was one of the first ones to join. I regret that very much now.
The Quran-alone movement isn't the truth ... it's simply an apology for a false religion.As a consequence, fifteen pages of beating around the bush.
Agreed.
And I think the forum is open and clear,
It's not. Rule 2 of this forum is a blasphemy law. Do not insult or mock our God and scripture.
I insulted Allah, Mohamed and the Quran. Never once did I personally attack anyone.
The Quran mocks entire communities and beliefs right from the beginning.
26 Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe
If I said
26 Indeed, those who free-minders- it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishmentInsult + generalization and veiled threat.
You would be pretty angry, as evidenced by my initial thread. You said "Hey, we are not all the same".
What if Trump said this.
26 Indeed, those Muslims - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not change
Jesus has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishmentWouldn't there be uproar. You would be the first to shout Islamaphobe! Islamaphobe! Hate speech
As a Trump apologist, I would say "hey man, you need to put in the context of war on terror".
I can't make my point any clearer.
You can read on from 26 it's all about making you suspicious of the other.
29-10 The free-minders deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive not.
In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they used to lie.Is that o.k, because you think it's from Allah? Is "context" important with such insulting statements.
For what crime do free-minders have a disease in their heart?
Answer
And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive not.These are the exact verses every sect (including you) uses to de-humanize another sect who thinks they are on the right path.
Will the Mods say, "hey where is the evidence that we are corrupters - where is the analysis"
These are some of the milder verses. It gets a whole lot worse and you know it.
Are these verses guidance?
Here's better guidance.
26 It doesn't matter what you believe as long you don't hurt one another. You can worship many gods or none. I love and guide you regardless.
27 Don't assume what is in the hearts of those you disagree with.
Also I kindly ask ImranKhwaja not to post on this thread. Thank you.
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Since you quoted part of what I said and answered them, and left this one out
And I think the forum is open and clear, I've been here for less than two weeks and it's not that hard to grasp. You have a question or a topic you'd like to discuss you ask it in its appropriate section while trying to be as explicit as you can for others to help you out.
Unless you want to make this thread another fifteen pages of beating around the bush, you need to take the points you want to discuss , each one of them, in their appropriate sections. That if you are here to discuss.
Also, who's trump ?
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It's not. Rule 2 of this forum is a blasphemy law. Do not insult or mock our God and scripture.
I insulted Allah, Mohamed and the Quran. Never once did I personally attack anyone.
RED It does not say OUR it says "Thus, mocking/ridiculing/insulting God and/or the Quran"
This is the same way you try to manipulate the quran, by twisting. Allah forbids that.Further more you admit that you broke forum nr 2.
And how does it feel now you have insulted Allah, do you feel O0 ?
The Quran mocks entire communities and beliefs right from the beginning.
26 Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe
your level of the quran is even lower than I thought. Maybe it's an idea to try your luck in a sunni forum.
If I said
26 Indeed, those who free-minders- it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishmentInsult + generalization and veiled threat.
You would be pretty angry, as evidenced by my initial thread. You said "Hey, we are not all the same".
What if Trump said this.
26 Indeed, those Muslims - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not change
Jesus has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishmentWouldn't there be uproar. You would be the first to shout Islamaphobe! Islamaphobe! Hate speech
As a Trump apologist, I would say "hey man, you need to put in the context of war on terror".
I can't make my point any clearer.
You can read on from 26 it's all about making you suspicious of the other.
29-10 The free-minders deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive not.
In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they used to lie.Is that o.k, because you think it's from Allah? Is "context" important with such insulting statements.
For what crime do free-minders have a disease in their heart?
Answer
And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."
Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive not.These are the exact verses every sect (including you) uses to de-humanize another sect who thinks they are on the right path.
Will the Mods say, "hey where is the evidence that we are corrupters - where is the analysis"
These are some of the milder verses. It gets a whole lot worse and you know it.
Are these verses guidance?
Here's better guidance.
26 It doesn't matter what you believe as long you don't hurt one another. You can worship many gods or none. I love and guide you regardless.
27 Don't assume what is in the hearts of those you disagree with.
Wow you are full of rage man, relax man.
Also I kindly ask ImranKhwaja not to post on this thread. Thank you.
It's not your thread.
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Peace everyone,
I don't think FNM has insulted the true God or the original text of the quran. Maybe the forum rules need to be changed to "THE GOD" instead of "God" otherwise that would include any "God", and changed to "the original text of the quran" instead of "the quran" otherwise it would include any book claiming to be "the quran" without evidence.
Circular reasoning is not evidence but a logical fallacy. Inclusion of some scientific facts in a book is not evidence of a book's divine origin, especially when much more advanced scientific facts were known thousands of years prior as evidenced by Sumerian inscriptions and other archeological artifacts. A manufactured and fabricated "code" is also not evidence of divine origin.
Also how can a book claiming to be of divine origin allow up to 2 discrepancies (482)? A book of divine origin should allow ZERO discrepancies and I think that the original text might have possibly said NO discrepancy. So God can make up to 2 mistakes but not more than two? hmm
Even the current text of the quran indicates "THE GOD" and not "God" as the true God. This is evidence that the forum rule itself is not in accordance with even the current text of the quran (i.e. it is unevidenced).
Just a suggestion; everyone is free to disagree and arrogantly mock me for being on a "low level"
you need to take the points you want to discuss , each one of them, in their appropriate sections.
Agreed.
Peace
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I think it's quite telling that FnM's "discussions", and others like him in the past, seems to always revert to a "you took a jab at me, so I will take a jab at you" thread. Then when moderators get involved, it's the "I'm being single out, I'm being victimized, the moderators/rules are unfair" argument. Then it will become "this place does not allow free speech, Islam promotes subjugation of the free flow of ideas". Then the ban comes, and other members get pissed.
After a while these people always are compelled to come back as new members and repeat the cycle.
It's derailment of the forum.
I don't post much, but I like reading others posts (member since 2003), and I just notice these things.
Salam.
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FNM - It's funny because that post reminds me a bit of a thread I created a short while back - see here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608689.0 if you want to contribute there, given it's a similar topic.
We've also had threads discussing what a kafir is if you've seen those or want to take a look.
Peace. )
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Also I kindly ask ImranKhwaja not to post on this thread. Thank you.
handshake
just one thing i did not understand the opening post was on someother thread yesterday , as soon as i replied on that then this new thread opened ... but same wordings... anybody figure it out...
i actually dnt know who really this perosn FNM is or who was he before..?
but i feel he have some hard feelings for me... may b a past history lol but all i did was to explain his reasoning was weak and contradictory...
look at this link guys...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608855.10
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Peace hanslan.
I thought free minds is for all kinds of views/opinions as long as one abides by the rules of the forum.
So what do you mean by, quote
Some have damn good english I don't understand. Some have alien typewriters - takes awhile to decipher. Some like to give teasers - damn those adverts! Some like to speak in maths - phew!Is it going to come to "make a list who you want to participate in your thread"?
Choose some and ask others to stay away because you do not like their views /style...etc.
I thought fairness and freedom of choice is everyone s right?
For me there is no"This is my thread" if you post on a public forum. You may wish to open a specific thread to debate with a specific individual,but you respectfully ask others to let that happen in a nice manner!!!!
Can you explain the reason behind this thread please? I do not understand its message/aim.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I think it's quite telling that FnM's "discussions", and others like him in the past, seems to always revert to a "you took a jab at me, so I will take a jab at you" thread. Then when moderators get involved, it's the "I'm being single out, I'm being victimized, the moderators/rules are unfair" argument. Then it will become "this place does not allow free speech, Islam promotes subjugation of the free flow of ideas". Then the ban comes, and other members get pissed.
After a while these people always are compelled to come back as new members and repeat the cycle.
It's derailment of the forum.
I don't post much, but I like reading others posts (member since 2003), and I just notice these things.
Salam.
Lucky you! All that time I was going in circle with my sunni religion (
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Peace hanslan.
I thought free minds is for all kinds of views/opinions as long as one abides by the rules of the forum.
So what do you mean by, quote
Some have damn good english I don't understand. Some have alien typewriters - takes awhile to decipher. Some like to give teasers - damn those adverts! Some like to speak in maths - phew!Is it going to come to "make a list who you want to participate in your thread"?
Choose some and ask others to stay away because you do not like their views /style...etc.
I thought fairness and freedom of choice is everyone s right?
For me there is no"This is my thread" if you post on a public forum. You may wish to open a specific thread to debate with a specific individual,but you respectfully ask others to let that happen in a nice manner!!!!
Can you explain the reason behind this thread please? I do not understand its message/aim.
GOD bless you.
Peace.there are some kinds of people missing in that list let me add it police
some are .. rejector of GOD, quran islam
some are .. ancient aliens theorist....
some are... flat earth theorist
some are .. prophet mani followers...
some are .. insightful person same like prophets
some are .. language experts and think their interpreation is correct ...but i love all of them .. and i in my threads i never ever say to anybody not to participate .. on the contrary i get happy when we get debate with eachother i learn a lot in these discussions.. thats why i m here for learning.. not for attacking..
group
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Lucky you! All that time I was going in circle with my sunni religion (
I have to thank the sunni sheik I had for my Sunday school arabic classes. I was around ten years old at the time. This guy was ultra conservative and did everything by the book of sunni teachings. I stumbled upon him and his buddies during a playtime break watching Baywatch in the basement of the masjid while the kids played upstairs. They gave me this sheepish grin and wanted to know if I wanted to watch with them. At that moment I said to myself "F this, I will figure it out on my own."
I am so grateful for that sunni sheik of mine sun
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I have to thank the sunni sheik I had for my Sunday school arabic classes. I was around ten years old at the time. This guy was ultra conservative and did everything by the book of sunni teachings. I stumbled upon him and his buddies during a playtime break watching Baywatch in the basement of the masjid while the kids played upstairs. They gave me this sheepish grin and wanted to know if I wanted to watch with them. At that moment I said to myself "F this, I will figure it out on my own."
I am so grateful for that sunni sheik of mine sun
Hypocrisy.
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Yow dude, you're going to hell and I know you are very scared because you deny God's scripture. You are a kafir, an unbeliever that can't seem to accept God's words and you feel hate towards God for not accepting his message. So you try to convert everyone to the wrong path just like Satan. Move on dude, once the burning starts you will be screaming for another chance but you wont have it. Gluck
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Calling me a kafir is not personal?
Isn't Kafir the worst person according to the Quran?
These are simple questions nobody here answers.
It's actually depends on you... how do you perceive it..
I've been labeled Kafir, Infidel or other label and I never took it personal.. or deemed it as such..
Although I would agree that such sentence can be objectively assessed as personal attack.Having said that, I would agree that "Personal Attack", "Insult" and "Ad Hominem" should be categorized as violation of decency and must be put inside the forum rules. Feel free to attack or insult or reject the opinion but not those who voiced the opinion.
It's not. Rule 2 of this forum is a blasphemy law. Do not insult or mock our God and scripture.
I insulted Allah, Mohamed and the Quran. Never once did I personally attack anyone.Agree..
Rule #2 on this forum is a blasphemy law and quite ridiculous..If insulting an item or dead person or God deemed as criteria..
Then the only party who is authorized to judge such criteria whether he/she or it feel insulted is the item, the dead person or the God themselves. Without any complain coming from the item, the dead person or the God, then such rule cannot be properly assessed.No member of this forum has the right to be the sole representative of the item, the dead person or the God as such when he or she feel insulted then it's considered to be an insult towards the item, the dead person or the God.
Rule #2 should be properly changed to no "Personal Attack", "Insult" and "Ad Hominem" and spreading of hatred from a member to another member, and this can be assessed when a member file a complaint of being a victim of "Personal Attack", "Insult" and "Ad Hominem".
Some example
- You're a moron / kaffir / infidel / idiot etc..
- I will F&k you M(*F8((er.
- I wish you to burn in hell!!
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Not about everything do I agree with Jafar on, but this was a decent one. But since it is good with diversity I do not mind Jafar thinks otherwise. In the end it is about which mode of living will help us progress of who we are.
Jafar and I mainly differ on one single topic and that is about the timeline. Jafar holds the opinion that "God" knows the future while I say the future is not written in advance. Who cares what difference it makes though, we can only do the best we can in order to have a strong mind.
A strong mental acumen weighs heavier then.
Be well
Amenuel -
Not about everything do I agree with Jafar on, but this was a decent one. But since it is good with diversity I do not mind Jafar thinks otherwise. In the end it is about which mode of living will help us progress of who we are.
Jafar and I mainly differ on one single topic and that is about the timeline. Jafar holds the opinion that "God" knows the future while I say the future is not written in advance. Who cares what difference it makes though, we can only do the best we can in order to have a strong mind.
A strong mental acumen weighs heavier then.
Be well
AmenuelSince you don't believe the future is written, do you believe God knows the future?
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Since you don't believe the future is written, do you believe God knows the future?
Since the future is not created in advance, no. The future is created "on-the-fly", i.e. when something is determined it is created. However, some event can have been determined, for example, 2500 years ago and occur now, so in this perspective there can be limited predestination. But the result of our testing is NOT predestined.
And it does not make "God" weak because "God" does not know that which "God" has not created... yet.
We roam here on Earth for a purpose and that is a sort of "benchmark" of our capability, and then the Initiator of the test would not know the results or else there is no point in commencing a test in the first place.
Be well
Amenuel -
Peace Jafar.
"Rule= 2" is there for now.The Moderators make the decisions. If your view is discussed/considered...by the Moderators and the rule changed ,I would not object.
At the end of the day ,This forum is here with the present rules and Moderators. If one is really unhappy,then they can either join another forum that they agree with all its rules or create their own forum to go with their own rules.
I am not saying one should not suggest another view ,but I am offering a quick and immediate answer for them.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
The problem is what is to be regarded as a blasphemy or not is in the hands of the interpreter, i.e. the moderators and administrators in this case.