the Inner-self, Hell, Heaven and Death.
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I answered this thread, but it appears my post is not here.
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I answered this thread, but it appears my post is not here.
Must be some problem either coming from you when you tried to submit the post or the server processing your request...either way it's ok no rush. Also I recommend backing up your answers (specially if you put efforts on them) you never know what could go wrong.
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Must be some problem either coming from you when you tried to submit the post or the server processing your request...either way it's ok no rush. Also I recommend backing up your answers (specially if you put efforts on them) you never know what could go wrong.
I am sure I saw the post after it was submitted earlier. I used to backup written messages in the past when I had a really weak internet connection, but these days I do not. The only backup is while I am writing something I every now and then select everything and then copy to have the written data in the system's memory in case something goes wrong.
Anyways, things like this is clearly demoralizing and it has happened before after I wrote something big and then I simply skip writing anything anew when everything failed and disappeared. See if I find the will to make another try.
Be well
Amenuel -
I am sure I saw the post after it was submitted earlier. I used to backup written messages in the past when I had a really weak internet connection, but these days I do not. The only backup is while I am writing something I every now and then select everything and then copy to have the written data in the system's memory in case something goes wrong.
Anyways, things like this is clearly demoralizing and it has happened before after I wrote something big and then I simply skip writing anything anew when everything failed and disappeared. See if I find the will to make another try.
Be well
AmenuelIf I'm writing a long post anywhere, before I submit/post it, I always will quickly copy the entire thing so I have it "saved" in case something goes awry in the submission process.
However if you swear that you saw the post actually posted here earlier, that's really weird and perhaps it is saved somewhere on this site? Message an admin or mod perhaps?
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I had already written a quite long post in reply to this one, so unfortunately this reply will not be as long.
If to keep it simple, yes. In Jehennom you have a body whereas in "Heaven" you have not.
Well rounded up.
Looking at these two statements.Based on the state of "inner-self" 'Nafs' do you reach Jannah/Jahanam as a place(first quote) or as a state of "being" (2nd quote) ?
Of which are you referring to? Both? You wrote a slash implying the same? If you meant separately, Jannah is not what I would be aiming to be, and Jenneh is a condition in Jehennom, the Jennet are our bodies. Jehennom is the illusion of a location, like a virtual world.
Al-asema (traditionally Heaven) is the destination in which you are ethereal, just listen to the word which implies a void/transparency (the sky). In that you could refer to it more as a state of being than a place because you lack a fixed location and is therefore omnipresent.
First thing that draw my attention Nafs or more commonly known as "inner-self". Quran speaks of the "Nafs" very often in such
Although classical views of nafs simply refer it to "yourself" as "whatever you think you are" probably why there are some misconceptions out there.Your soul is the Nafs, it is used to refer to your self, but only your true self which does not include the identity which the body gives you. So your real person is the Nafs, and Nafs means morphologically "Integrity Forth Spirit" which in that sounds very much like a seed that has to develop. Nafs comes from this root with many alleged definitions of which I will make some relevant ones bold
Nun-Fa-Siin = was or became high in estimation, of high account or excellent, highly prized/precious/valuable and therefore desired with much emulation or much request, desired, it became loved or highly esteemed, console, cheer, envy.
Was or became avaricious/tenacious/niggardly of it because of its being in high estimation or excellent, little to much good.
Brought forth (e.g. gave birth to a child), menstruated, blood.
Clear away grief/anxiety/sorrow, ease/relieve, delay.
Breath, gust, drew breath, sigh, spoke long (due to regular intake of breath), become extended/long/increased, ability.
Soul/spirit, the vital principle, intellect/reason/mind, inner desire or feeling, knowledge, pride, self-magnification, a state where there is ample scope for action, 'willingly' when used as adverb, nafs - soul of discrimination (mental) and ruh - soul of breath (physical), oneself/itself, whole, essential constituent, reality, sometimes ghayb and nafs are synonymous, a person/being/individual, quantity, man, life, soul + body, life-blood, body, contention/thought/face/substance, heart, stomach, gulp, drought.
Brother or co-partner in faith/religion/relationship.
Wide space, distance, width.
Greatness, nobility, glory, scarcity, absoluteness, unseen, hidden reality which is beyond human perception, intention, requital, punishment.Al-Naas is a related word to Nafs and refer to the spiritual. Sometimes it is written together with Jinn, and that is because if you write Al-Jinn wa Al-Naas you refer to body and spirit. One must grow in spirituality to progress the Nafs, but it takes to separate the bodily which could be compared with worthless weeds that choke useful plants, in this case the plant of your Nafs (seed). Note that this was a very brief parable and I am not saying you are a plant. The body is intentionally designed to be corrupting on its subject with its Satan (in science called the instinct), like tailored to deceive. It is like the perfect delusion.
While making this post I found this Sufi website that highlighted the three state of "Nafs" mentioned in the Quran
• The commanding soul "Al-Ammara" (Nafs that commands to 'wrong/evil' )as in
• Nafs al-Lawwama (The Self-Accusing Soul )as in
• Nafs al-Mutma?inna (The Soul at Peace) as in
Now this being said, I would like you to relate to the three state of "Nafs" mentioned above to what you said specially regarding the following concept
Their Nafs' Al-Ammara is when falling prey to Satan, and autonomous drive in the body which causes one to act much like an animal, e.g. seek to dominate, align to a hierarchy, idolize gods or matter, mate with the opposite sex, think like the rest of the pack etc. A person succumbed to this has a very weak Being. It is still one and the same Nafs. The "commands" is yourself that lets you think like a primate. You must remember you are within a body that basically is a primate and your superior spirit makes it relatively advanced, but also dangerous when mixed up with that "neanderthal" and its impulses. I have heard news that North Korea's leader is developing nuclear warheads and this person has very much succumbed to the instinct. By knowing the effects of the blast of a nuclear warhead, it is very unwise to even think of this weapon, but that is what happens when you leave the trigger of a such weapon in the hands of an ape that wishes to protect his territory like a dog, they just give all they can. Their leader is so deluded about dominating that he forgets his people, he is only concerned about his territory.
What was written about the Nafs by these sufi is roughly correct.
"Self-accusing", well it is your soul that comes with its conscience and it mainly happens in someone with a previously developed soul that is strong enough to feel sad for the ignorance of their accompanying body and the miserable life that they live. One cannot just pity themselves but they have to do something about it and be confident (have iman) to make a change.
About that I can refer to my own life, I lived imitating others only about a decade ago and tried to live like others and I became increasingly depressed, and without intending to brag my spirit is very well developed, so I came into a great depression. Eventually I reflected and wondered why I should just not go my own way and shun that which did not make me stable, and then I started to make vast changes in my life. For example, I quit alcohol and I have made decisions not to embrace materialism and I only own objects to use them as tools and I try to only buy what I need. I no longer go to any parties like I did then and I look to myself rather than others. I seek to explicitly be my own character, not having anyone else as a role model, no one. I am my own master and I do what I want, and I do not want anything special either. I have gradually strengthened my Being, which is out ultimate aim. While I may have been shrinking my spirit it is now growing again, and I am more or less at the state of Nafs al-Mutma?inna (The Soul at Peace) that you picked from some sufi source.
Now when I mentioned death and after death, I was referring to it as in the "classical" view i.e the end of it i.e you die, and you wake up in a scary place with everyone around waiting for your judgement. However it seems that you consider death merely a change of body, i.e not related to the "End" (Judgement day) which is interesting but also needs some backing up (Preferably from the Scripture). But in the following I'll be using "death" as you expressed it i.e the change of body.
I cannot refer to a sectarian interpretation of Quran, because it follows the clerical agenda of medieval times.
You live continuously until the Judgment Day and have a change to repent and reform until then. The placement in many bodies has a partial purpose of giving you many chances before it is too late in many different situations, but you also answer to your deeds or misdeeds and how you fare in your life or afterlife is determined by your actions. But your actions of good alone do not determine whether you reach salvation, but you need to also show your distance to the bodily and not commit sins. When you can completely stop committing sins even when put before a test then you are ready.
It implies that, there has to be a limited number of "Nafs" (souls) created by God (initially ? or still in progress?) and at the death of someone, the soul is taken, to be put in another body in another place on earth in another time. Now this also implies that between the stage of dying and to be given another body, the souls are somewhere, since the rate of death isn't the same as the rate of birth therefore there has to be some souls wondering around probably "unconscious" of their surrounding. However this also need some backing up. (preferably from the Scripture)
I answered this in my previous lost post in great detail. All I can say right now is that you must reflect upon what you believe about "time and space". There was a scientist called Albert Einstein who saw that time seemed to be relative. This is also your answer to your little problem with time gaps, in just a few brief sentences.
Speaking of the scripture, these verses come to my mind and many other occurences of the same "bringing the living out of the dead.."
It's seems that the "death" you spoke about and the "death" that the Quran speaks of in many occurences never meant "the end". So if you can link your view to such verses, it would make much more sense.
Not the sectarian interpretation of Quran.
Referring to the spiritual dead as dead is reasonable and right. No problem here.
However since I highlighted the difference between the "death" you spoke about and the classical view of death, I'd like to have your opinion on Judgement day as well.Judgment Day happens, sooner or later, but I can tell you that we are in the third phase. In the third phase everything in order to help mankind is going to be manifest to the one willing to learn. Everything will be "black on white" for the one willing to learn, even the nature of your Rabb, who is not at all what people often think. Think symbiotically and you find a closer link to your Rabb's nature.
Be well
Amenuel -
MOF I like your point of view. I understand the logic behind your conclusions and reasoning. I wish I could one day meet you in person to truly know if you are what you claim you are, but that won't happen. Anyways, thx for sharing and hope to see more of your posts
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I have heard news that North Korea's leader is developing nuclear warheads and this person has very much succumbed to the instinct.
Peace Man of Faith. A lot of things you say are beautiful in their Truth. However, I would argue that nuclear warheads are the reason for the superpowers to not start a WW3. And just look at the states who own nuclear weapons. Do they have wars ? As sad and ironic it is, today A nuclear warhead is a guarantee of safety. Do you think if Afghanistan or Chechnya had nuclear military power, Russia would have started wars with those states?
We are still on earth and I guess we have to play by the rules of this Earth. Money, security and etc.
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Rest assured there will soon be a nuclear winter too given all the madmen in the world.
Nuclear warheads is no guarantee you will be left alone.
But we should not play by the rules here or else we play by the rules of the instinct which is not good.
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Rest assured there will soon be a nuclear winter too given all the madmen in the world.
Nuclear warheads is no guarantee you will be left alone.
But we should not play by the rules here or else we play by the rules of the instinct which is not good.
Im afraid you are most probably right. But of course lets Hope things will turn out differently.
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The prophecies of Isaiah will surely come true and he prophesied worse times than ever to come to us. I am prepared for the worst, including a scenario that could look like the video game Fallout with a real nuclear winter. I even browsed the web for a radiation suit the other day to begin to store up a survival package. And I am going to start to stock up on dry food soon. Who knows how soon everything will start to go south.
Be well
Amenuel -
The prophecies of Isaiah will surely come true and he prophesied worse times than ever to come to us. I am prepared for the worst, including a scenario that could look like the video game Fallout with a real nuclear winter. I even browsed the web for a radiation suit the other day to begin to store up a survival package. And I am going to start to stock up on dry food soon. Who knows how soon everything will start to go south.
Be well
AmenuelBut Man of Faith, it contradicts with what God tells us in the Quran
Say (O Muhammed), "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner."
Say (O Muhammed), "I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what God wills happen to me. If I KNEW THE FUTURE, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe."
If Mohammad is told, that Mohammad is not different from the other messengers, thus he doesn't know the future. How did Isiah see the future ? Who do we trust The God or men ?
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But Man of Faith, it contradicts with what God tells us in the Quran
Say (O Muhammed), "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner."
Say (O Muhammed), "I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what God wills happen to me. If I KNEW THE FUTURE, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe."
If Mohammad is told, that Mohammad is not different from the other messengers, thus he doesn't know the future. How did Isiah see the future ? Who do we trust The God or men ?
It is called prophet for a reason. Isaiah knew the determination of the future. And future prophets were prophesied before they came. What do you think to prophesy means?
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It is called prophet for a reason. Isaiah knew the determination of the future. And future prophets were prophesied before they came. What do you think to prophesy means?
Man of Faith, the words above are from the Quran, and not mine own. I think to have a fair discussion we must first agree on that we both see Quran as the word of God in its entirety. If in these paricular verses God says to the prophet that nor he knows the future nor any prophet knew the future. Do we accept as the Truth or we start spreading our own understanding of the world?
So do we accept everything in the Quran as the Truth, or we only quote things that match our personal beliefs?
"What do you think to prophesy means?", So this question is not to me, but to the author of the Quran
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Well, I do recognize Quran to be the word of God, but I do not recognize its usually accompanying interpretation.
A prophet is called a prophet because they know things. They can know information about what is to come to pass in another time as well as write that down. The one who wrote Quran got to know a bit of this and that. But a man still in the flesh is prevented in much from knowing the future because they roam separated from their Originator (God), however since an insightful man (prophet) can see through a cleft into the other realm he knows things others do not.
Be well
Amenuel