Homosexuality: A Cost To Society or Harmless
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Peace David,
The psychologist's name is Robert Spitzer. I'm not sure of the journal papers, if any, only that he headed the task force designated to revise the Psychiatric Association?s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). His input was fundamental in having homosexuality removed from the DSM as a "treatable" disease. Ironically, his latest research proves quite the opposite, and he seemed very apologetic in the article I read about him a while ago. I'm sure a quick Google will pull up the relevant info.
May peace be upon you,
Tay -
Peace all,
- Indeed, in the messenger of God a good example has been set for you for he who seeks God and the Last Day and thinks constantly about God.
3350 O prophet, We have made lawful for you the wives to whom (feminine) you have already given their (feminine) dowry, and the one who is committed to you by oath, as granted to you by God, and the daughters of your father's brothers, and the daughters of your father's sisters, and the daughters of your mother's brothers, and the daughters of your mother's sisters, of whom (feminine)they have emigrated with you. Also, the believing woman who had decreed herself to the prophet, the prophet may marry her if he wishes, as a privilege given only to you and not to the believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses and those who are still dependant. This is to spare you any hardship. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
It is clear that the God doesn't allow the prophet to have a mate from men.
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You may postpone whom you will of them (feminine), and you may receive whom you will. And whomsoever you seek of those whom you have set aside then there is no sin upon you. This will gladden their (feminine) eyes, their grief will disappear and all of them (feminine)will be content with whatever you give them (feminine)God knows what is in your hearts. God is Knowledgeable, Compassionate.
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It has been made lawful for you during the night of abstinence to approach your women sexually. They (feminine) are a garment for you and you are a garment for them(feminine). God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them (feminine) and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them (feminine)while you are devoted in the temples. These are God?s boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.
Only women are a garment for men and vice verse. The God's commands are fully detailed and expose what is lawful for us.
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And do not marry (tankihoo) (masculine) the females who set up partners until they believe. For a believing servant is better than one who sets up partners even if she attracts you. Nor shall you give your daughters in marriage (tunkihoo the passive form of the verb to marry) to male who set up partners until they believe. For a believing servant is better than one who sets up partners even if he attracts you. Those invite to the Fire, while God is inviting to Paradise and forgiveness by His leave. He clarifies His revelations for the people that they may remember.
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And they ask you about menstruation? Say ?It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you.? God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed.
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Your women are a cultivation for you. So approach your cultivation as you wish towards goodness. And be aware of God and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.
There is no verse where the God speaks about nikah/mariage between two man or two women.
459.O you who believe, obey God and obey the messenger and those entrusted amongst you. But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to God and His messenger if you believe in God and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for knowing.
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Peace be upon you all,
Marie, thank you for joining this discussion with some truthful statements.
Joe, yes I am familiar with all of those perversities. Homosexuality is against God's Universal Laws.
Burhan
idolfree1 wrote
Yes, there were unjust (thalimeen), because they were homosexuals!You have a wicked tongue.
My tongue is direct and straightfoward, not beating around the bush lest I be of those who lag behind like Lot's wife.
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Salaamun alaikum all,
Allah specified the punishment for homosexuality in Al-Quran as follows
"And the two women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out. And the two men who commit it from amongst you, then you shall annoy them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful". (416-17)
It does not appear that there is any "sexual abuse" by one person of the other in the above sign but it is clear that "consensual homosexuality" both female-female and male-male is what is being mentioned here. How can Allah allow an act for which He is prescribing a punishment !!
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Ah good find above. I didn't really notice that verse before. Interesting how theres new things you find in the Quran D
Apparently theres going to be a gay parade in Jersusalem. Ofcourse this has gotten some people pretty upset. Interesting though that its united Xtians, Jews, and Muslims lol. Back to the point, even though I think homosexuals should have equal rights and all, marching down the streets of Jerusalem is just being abnoxious. They can't expect people to feel anything but anger towards them for doing this.
http//www.nytimes.com/2005/03/31/international/worldspecial/31gay.html -
Peace everybody,
I'm not sure at all about the quality of translation of the following verses, which actually are 415+16
"And the two women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out. And the two men who commit it from amongst you, then you shall annoy them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful". (416-17)
Is it really "two women" and "two men" which would actually point to homosexuality ? Or is it, "those of your women" (with a connotation of daughter/wife which would suppose some kind of authority men would have on them) and "those among you" (which could be men or women in general). This is an understanding i found in other translations and i just checked with a native arab speaker - this is also what he understands from the verses in arabic.
In order to reach "native arab speakers", i'll PM this post to Marie and Noor for further information inchallah - and thanks in advance. The thread is General Issues/Homosexuality/A thread to society or harmless.
Have a nice day all!
Elke -
Peace everybody,
I'm not sure at all about the quality of translation of the following verses, which actually are 415+16
Quote
"And the two women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out. And the two men who commit it from amongst you, then you shall annoy them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful". (416-17)Is it really "two women" and "two men" which would actually point to homosexuality ? Or is it, "those of your women" (with a connotation of daughter/wife which would suppose some kind of authority men would have on them) and "those among you" (which could be men or women in general). This is an understanding i found in other translations and i just checked with a native arab speaker - this is also what he understands from the verses in arabic.
The above translation and verse numbering is from "The Message" by Progressive Muslims
PEACE,
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Salaam all,
The above translation and verse numbering is from "The Message" by Progressive Muslims
Well it is an inaccurate translation. The word that is talked about here is FAHISHA and it means committing a bad act in public. This act can be sexual or non sexual. To ignore the public part of the meaning and to ignore that the act can be non sexual makes for an inaccurate translation.
Second point, they are restricted to their homes. Why? because they are a scandal and not because they have sex. It is because of the public part of their bad acts, whtever they are sexual or non sexual.
Salaam all and have a good day.
hussein
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Salaamun alaikum all,
"And the two women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out. And the two men who commit it from amongst you, then you shall annoy them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful". (415-16)
hlatif said
Well it is an inaccurate translation. The word that is talked about here is FAHISHA and it means committing a bad act in public. This act can be sexual or non sexual. To ignore the public part of the meaning and to ignore that the act can be non sexual makes for an inaccurate translation.
Brother Hussein,
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No where in the translation it says "private" lewdness only
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Can you please give me a reference of your opinion of the meaning of FAHISHA meaning "public" only
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"and do not come near FAWAHISH, publicly or privately" (6151)
Here FAWAHISH means both public AND private indecent acts because of the words following it "ma zahara minha wa ma batana"
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According to the Dictionary of The Holy Quran by Abdul Mannan Omar the word FAHISHATAN has the following meanings manifest improper conduct; gross sin; unseemly; immoral conduct; indecent or lewd or abominable word or deed; flagrant indecency; adultery; fornication; sodomy; illicit sexual intercourse. It does not say these acts are only public or only private.
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All the meanings imply sexual acts as sexual does not mean only intercourse but any immoral or indecent or sexual act that can imply a sexual advance or can elicit a sexual response from the other person is considered sexual also. When people are accused of SEXUAL harassment at work it does not mean actual SEX only, it could be any immoral or indecent sexual remark or advancement or foreplay etc.
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Please give me an example of a non sexual FAHISHA from Al-Quran
Brother Elke,
I checked on some other translations and it seems you may be right that the first part of the sign 415 could mean "any of your women" but the word "min" means "amongst" indicating that the verse refers to a female-female act.
Any comments from others?
Peace all, Tanveer
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Salaam brother Tanveer,
Thank you for prompting me to look the root F-Ha-SH. I did look it up at the LISAN ALARAB dictionary and this is what I found
Any ugly word or deed. Or any act or deed or word that exceed the limit in a bad direction. Adultery is considered a FAHISHA, but it is not the only FAHISHA.
You are right, I could not see the public part. Therefore, in this area, I am wrong and you are right. For this I thank you.
You had another question
- Please give me an example of a non sexual FAHISHA from Al-Quran
1732 Nor come nigh to adultery for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).
So here the word adultery was used and it was mentioned as A FAHISHA rather than THE FAHISHA. If the Qur'an was to limit FAHISHA to sexual acts then the Adultery becomes AL FAHISHA.Those AYAT can be understood in non sexual ways
2169, 2268,3135,6151,728, 733,2419,2945Take care and have a good day
Hussein
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Salaamun alaikum Brother Hussein,
If you define a sexual act as adultery/fornication or sodomy, and a nonsexual act as an immoral or indecent or lewd act other than adultery/fornication or sodomy, then you are right that FAHISHA means sexual and non sexual bad acts.
In my mind I think of sexual acts to mean adultery/fornication as well as other lewd or immoral acts which explains my comments. Thank you for the references.
Regards,
Tanveer