Hello all, this is my new home !
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I remember being called a Quranist on Ummah forum since I was the biggest troll there. lead me to watch some RK videos and read his stuff, I believe he went insane later on and used hadith to justify many things, added alot of theories not mentioned in the Quran. He had a scary face too
I believe since all of you want to learn and discover more, study Arabic on the side and compare different translations later on. I wish I had time to improve my Arabic even though I'm Egyptian but soon I will.
True isn't it ? At some point the translations will nolonger satisfy and the need to learn old-Arabic on your own gets bigger and bigger. I don't know where and how I should start with this. I fear a teacher would teach me all the Arabic words wrong. Because he would be a hadith-follower or for whatever bad reason. I guess I just wait and pray to God to put me on the right track regarding understanding the Quran. But sometimes I wonder... were we humans ever supposed to fully understand the Quran in some point in our short life ?
I wonder, even how much despicable the hadith-believers are, in the end they all turned to hadiths because the Quran could not satisfy them They couldn't understand it and in their despair for truth they turned to the Hadiths... sad events. Sad history. What should we do, when we don't understand the meaning of a Quran verse or the way to interpret it ?
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True isn't it ? At some point the translations will nolonger satisfy and the need to learn old-Arabic on your own gets bigger and bigger. I don't know where and how I should start with this. I fear a teacher would teach me all the Arabic words wrong. Because he would be a hadith-follower or for whatever bad reason. I guess I just wait and pray to God to put me on the right track regarding understanding the Quran. But sometimes I wonder... were we humans ever supposed to fully understand the Quran in some point in our short life ?
I wonder, even how much despicable the hadith-believers are, in the end they all turned to hadiths because the Quran could not satisfy them They couldn't understand it and in their despair for truth they turned to the Hadiths... sad events. Sad history. What should we do, when we don't understand the meaning of a Quran verse or the way to interpret it ?
You can search for an Arabic teacher to teach you the language but don't tell him its for studying Quran so he won't be translating everything according to what hadith influence he has.
I too believe we have to know the main message of the Quran and the general laws. Somethings we wont understand and we might even get them wrong but I think the effort is what counts and the reason behind it.
These hadith followers just love to worship humans, they always want to be like cattle never using their own brains to think. I hated how I was told I'm not supposed to understand the Quran and only the Sheikhs do. It's truly sad how people believe in that nonsense and try to justify it.
For your last Question, if something is not understood I just use my conscious and ask God to guide me. Even if I made a mistake I believe God will forgive me.
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Peace Imran.
Yes brother,all verses are amazing!! here is another one
3630
How sorry is the people's condition! Every time a messenger went to them, they always ridiculed him.History keeps repeating itself.Look how the verses describe history to us
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Are they waiting until all (prophecies) are fulfilled? The day such fulfilment comes to pass, those who disregarded it in the past will say, "The messengers of our Lord have brought the truth. Are there any intercessors to intercede on our behalf? Would you send us back, so that we change our behaviour, and do better works than what we did?" They have lost their souls, and their own innovations have caused their doom.For example Noah
761
He said, "O my people, I am not astray; I am a messenger from the Lord of the universe.762
"I deliver to you the messages of my Lord, and I advise you, and I know from God what you do not know.763
"Is it too much of a wonder that a reminder should come to you from your Lord, through a man like you, to warn you, and to lead you to righteousness, that you may attain mercy?"And Hud
767
He said, "O my people, there is no foolishness in me; I am a messenger from the Lord of the universe.768
"I deliver to you my Lord's messages, and I am honestly advising you.769
"Is it too much of a wonder that a message should come to you from your Lord, through a man like you, to warn you? Recall that He made you inheritors after the people of Noah, and multiplied your number. Remember God's blessings, that you may succeed."And so on...Same today as it was yesterday,we found our parents doing it or we are too arrogant to accept a "human like us" to deliver GOD s message to us? Or do each one of us want their own revelation exclusively delivered to them?
Does it ever occur to us?
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Does it ever occur to those who inherit the earth after previous generations that, if we will, we can punish them for their sins, and seal their hearts, causing them to turn deaf?May the Lord stop us from turning deaf to His messengers and message.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace GL , exactly... God chooses his messengers ...
and its not allowed for me you or any random person to choose himself as a messenger...and there is a big difference betweena messenger and a messenger of God...
yahoo msn are also messenger...
mobile is also a messenger...
what is the difference between an athorised messenger and unathorised messenger..?
what is the worth of msn yahoo if i write something else and the reciever recieved something else...?
what is the purpose and mission of messenger, due to which a messenger called a messenger?
how we distingusih between true messenger? by his message or lies... is it possible for a messenger to speak from his own wish?..
i have a list of questions... when u answer all this we will continue ... btw if i m not wrong here you are telling us RK is also one of the messenger of Allah who we reject and ridicule ?
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Peace Imran.
I am saying the following
3620
A man came from the other end of the city, saying, "O my people, follow the messengers.3621
"Follow those who do not ask you for any wage, and are guided.3622
"Why should I not worship/serve the One who initiated me, and to Him is your ultimate return?3623
"Shall I set up beside Him gods? If the Most Gracious willed any harm for me, their intercession cannot help me one bit, nor can they rescue me.3624
"In that case, I would be totally astray.I am reminding to double check and make sure our ego does not come between us and GOD s trial!!!!
GOD has warned us?
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We narrate to you the history of those communities their messengers went to them with clear proofs, but they were not to believe in what they had rejected before...Each one of us is only responsible for their own neck.
May the Lord guide us to His path.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
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3525 And if they deny you, then those before them have also denied. Their messengers went to them with the proofs and the scriptures and the Book of Enlightenment.
5725 We have sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and We sent down with them the Book and the balance, so that the people may uphold justice.
567 O messenger, deliver what was sent down to you from your Lord, and if you do not then you have not delivered His message; and God will protect you from the people. And God does not guide the rejecting people.
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and your point is ?
are u asking from me or GL ?
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The difference between RK and the messengers mentioned from the Quran RK claimed to be the messenger only after he had gained followers. Many leaders of modern cults for example Ahmadiyya claimed their messengerhood only after they gained support/power.
These claims of "messengerhood" is actually what puzzled me..
WHY would Mohammad, RK or anyone feels the need to claim such thing and/or asking testimony from others for such claim...
As if they're not confident enough for their own claim as such they need the acceptance or reference from others...Mohammad I'm Mohammad, a God's messenger
Me Oh ok great.. do you love your job?
Mohammad Do you believe that I am a messenger?
Me Of course Mo... you just said so yourselves.. why shouldn't I?
Mohammad You do? Really? Can you testify that I am a God messenger?
Me Hey mo.. sure... anything to make you happy.... by the way, why would you need such testimony anyway.. are you applying for the same role in another company? -
why we need a driving instructor?
ans so that we learn how to drive?
what if i dnt follow instruction?
ans then possibly you dnt know what red light mean , what happen if u drive in intoxication, you dnt know speed limits, then its a risk to harm yourself and other...why we need swimming instructor?
for time being lets get out of this, muhammad moses jesus they are not present now?
no body can see God and meet God in person?so we left with a message ... lets check the message either it from God or not?
so the message is here from last many centuries.. the difference between true message and fake message we can point out easily ...
why we need an instruction manual everytime we buy a thing , and we start a job... ?
what happen if we dnt use instruction manual...
then people will , do illegal sex, rob, steal, murder, and things what lead them towards harm more than benefit...
why moses come to save a nation...
why jesus come to amend the ways
why muhammad come for a purpose ?religion is attitude for spending life the way creator told us to.. its a reminder...
why we cannot promote everybody to next level of class without testing.
why everybody cannot go to medical college?list of questions but the message is the answer to almost all the questions..what we encounter in life
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2213 The people used to be one nation, then God sent the prophets as bearers of good news and warners, and He sent down with them the Book with the truth so that they may judge between the people in what they were disputing. But after receiving the clarity, the people disputed in it due to animosity between them. And God guided those who believed with His permission regarding what they disputed in of the truth. And God guides whoever He wishes to a straight path.
379 It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people ?Be servants to me rather than God!? Rather ?Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied.?
544 We have sent down the Torah, in it is a guidance and a light; the prophets who have submitted judged with it for those who are Jewish, and the Devotees, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of the Book of God, and they were witness over. So do not be concerned with the people but be concerned with Me; and do not purchase with My revelations a cheap price. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.
3345 O prophet, We have sent you as a witness, and a bearer of good news, and a warner.
i hope these verses help some people who are serving God in a confuse manner
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why we need swimming instructor?
A true swimming instructor will not bothered to claim that I'm a swimming instructor or ask other to testify as such..
Michael Phelps Hi dude
Me I know who you are! Man.. you're a good swimmer! You won many medals!! Please please teach me how to swim!!
MP Sure dude, I love to teach it to you and also share you some of the tips, let's hit the pool and ask your friends to come along..Michael Phelps never claimed to be a good swimmer or even ask others to testify that he's a good swimming instructor.. because he's already has the self-confident that he is...
why moses come to save a nation...
why jesus come to amend the ways
why muhammad come for a purpose ?Everyone have their own life purpose...
Moses, Jesus, John, Isaiah, Jeremiah or sages from other culture such as Lao Tse, Confucius, Zarathustra never asked others to testify that they're God's messenger.. They just do it, teach, instruct, lead, set a good example.. and didn't care much about how other testify about them..
Even Moses made a mistake, and he was asked to learn about wisdom and humility from a 'servant of God' whose name is not even being mentioned.. (1865)
Only within the Muhammedans branches of tradition we observed the attitude of "claiming messengership" and then ask others to testify..
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Only within the Muhammedans branches of tradition we observed the attitude of "claiming messengership" and then ask others to testify..
if you mean sunni and shia group then i have no issue you are right?
but
as far i know the message is prety clear... about things regarding testimony..
what muhammad teach in Quran is different than what other messenger teach?
did he not say the same set of rules what other claimed?
the concept of shahda come from the early disease what is commonly found in chirstian faith , they beleive untill there is not a seal of jesus on your back you will not be saved... similar to sunni/shia shahda if you will not accept prophet muhammad and ali as a prophet/wali of God you will not be saved... but hold on a second... we are discussing about what God commmand us to.. do
by default beleiving in prophet mean beleivng in what he bring as a message..? if you have any issues with message then we can proceed talk there are only two possibilites either the message is not from God or its from God...
379 It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people ?Be servants to me rather than God!? Rather ?Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied.?
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A true swimming instructor will not bothered to claim that I'm a swimming instructor or ask other to testify as such..
there are again two things...
a person on road claimed he is a doctor
a person in hospital authorised by medical community to operate surgery?what is the difference , if you have to select a doctor for ur surgery what you will gona do? lol
if you go ur way of thinking then a person on road can also operate surgery there is no need of asking him about his qualification and skills... isnt it...?
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the concept of shahda come from the early disease what is commonly found in chirstian faith , they beleive untill there is not a seal of jesus on your back you will not be saved... similar to sunni/shia shahda if you will not accept prophet muhammad and ali as a prophet/wali of God you will not be saved... but hold on a second... we are discussing about what God commmand us to.. do
I believe the concept of Shahada came centuries after the Prophet Peace be upon him. If my memory is right it was because of the Jizya incomes getting lower and lower. Apparently the non-muslims started to claim themselves as muslims to avoid paying the Jizya. lol. So the rulers decided to make such claims OFFICIAL and had to bring them to court in front of everyone to testify LA ILAH ILA LAH AND MUHAMMAD RASUL ALLAH..And of course If someone does something not "muslim" friendly or goes back to his religion he is dead voodoo
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if you mean sunni and shia group then i have no issue you are right?
By "Muhammedans" branches I mean Muhammedan branches, Sunnis, Shiites, RK sect, Quranist, Ahmadiyas, Wahabbis etc..
They all share quite similar mindset...what is the difference , if you have to select a doctor for ur surgery what you will gona do? lol
I haven't found any MD who asked me to testify that he's an MD.
And any good MD will not mind even when I don't believe in his capability as an MD.. he will just advice me to get another MD..
He will not call me a kuffar or unbeliever, enemy of Allah (or the Hospital) or curse me to hell for all eternity.Now... this specific case is more absurd, (Mohammad, RK, Ghulam Ahmad and others), they're all dead... but they're asking for other people who they never met... to testify something about them...
the concept of shahda come from the early disease what is commonly found in chirstian faith , they beleive untill there is not a seal of jesus on your back you will not be saved...
Perhaps...
Yet there is no record in the bible which stated that Jesus asked anyone to testify something about him....
However there is a segment on "When Jesus met John on the banks of Jordan river".. and instead of debating who are among them is the greatest (or who should testify to whom), both of the above gentlemen exchange praises to each others.I believe the concept of Shahada came centuries after the Prophet Peace be upon him. If my memory is right it was because of the Jizya incomes getting lower and lower. Apparently the non-muslims started to claim themselves as muslims to avoid paying the Jizya. lol. So the rulers decided to make such claims OFFICIAL and had to bring them to court in front of everyone to testify LA ILAH ILA LAH AND MUHAMMAD RASUL ALLAH..And of course If someone does something not "muslim" friendly or goes back to his religion he is dead voodoo
Similar motives to Catholic Inquisition in Spain...
Described in quite easy-to-digest details in
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_InquisitionHowever I think the introduction of the Shahada came much earlier...
The shahada was introduced along with the dogma of "Last Prophet / No More Revelation From God".
it was perhaps triggered by this event.. a possible 'rivalry' of those who claimed to be 'prophet'...
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musaylimah -
@ jaffar in other words u have issue with the message ... or you suggest there should be no message at all...
how will you become MD if your universtiry will not testify your degree... ?
why did a doctor need a degree that is testifed by the different bodies...?
what is a different between an authroised and unathorised doctor?
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These claims of "messengerhood" is actually what puzzled me..
WHY would Mohammad, RK or anyone feels the need to claim such thing and/or asking testimony from others for such claim...
As if they're not confident enough for their own claim as such they need the acceptance or reference from others...Mohammad I'm Mohammad, a God's messenger
Me Oh ok great.. do you love your job?
Mohammad Do you believe that I am a messenger?
Me Of course Mo... you just said so yourselves.. why shouldn't I?
Mohammad You do? Really? Can you testify that I am a God messenger?
Me Hey mo.. sure... anything to make you happy.... by the way, why would you need such testimony anyway.. are you applying for the same role in another company?Peace brother,
Very well said I agree totally handshake
May Allah reward you with the best pr -
Quote from imrankhawaja on 23 Sep, 2016 1906
the concept of shahda come from the early disease what is commonly found in chirstian faith , they beleive untill there is not a seal of jesus on your back you will not be saved...Perhaps...
Yet there is no record in the bible which stated that Jesus asked anyone to testify something about him....
However there is a segment on "When Jesus met John on the banks of Jordan river".. and instead of debating who are among them is the greatest (or who should testify to whom), both of the above gentlemen exchange praises to each others.This is something that clergymen have attributed to Jesus teachings and they misrepresented them. He said the way is through the "I AM" (one's self/independent being), but the translators thought he referred to himself (as he spoke Syriac Aramaic but the Biblical Gospels are in archaic Greek). If no one ever reflected upon what he really taught he focused on you helping yourself rather than others in the first place and he said that you have to find yourself before you will find your origin/originator (father they translated it from abbu). Everyone must learn to see themselves or rather be self-aware. It has nothing to do with egoism, but it is about letting your inner seed develop fully like Jesus said about the seeds spread out and which would grow. He further enhanced it by asking "why do you focus on the splinter in your brother's eye while you have a beam of wood in your own? First remove yours and then you can better help your brother". The path is primarily a personal path and we should not interfere with how others lead it by forcing them to (religious) rules.
But simple things were mistranslated from Jesus sayings and this causes many problems.
Jesus was very impressed by John the Baptist and his spiritual progress and did praise him very much and wished him to baptize him. He was clearly affected by the news that John had been executed.
Jesus fully recognized the law of Moses, but he gave his elaboration on it, however he did not abolish a single letter from the law either. He said he fulfilled it and that he did. By fulfillment he meant to make it even better. His mission with the Injeel was to elaborate on the Law, that is basically the meaning of Nun-Jiim-Lam (A nejil). He added greater elaboration on what the teachings of the law imply. Jesus also said the Law will last through all time.
Who here recognizes the commandments? You have not forgotten about them?
Those are the core of your faith. Your spiritual development depends upon them. They are your remedy against your own body's instinctive drive as we say with modern scientific advancements of psychology and human behavior. The instincts which will drive you to
Hierarchy
Materialism
Vanity
Indulgence
Egotism
Dominate
Sexual vanity
Greed
Dubious methods
JealousyThis is what the so-called 'Ten Commandments' gives a remedy for and what Jesus elaborated upon. Understand this and you will understand what you should actually accomplish and not some vain religious doctrine which leads to nothing and the portrayal of a worldly deity in some pathetic way.
All we seek for you is to BECOME SOMEONE and not just a mindless slave. Everything is centered on you and what you will make of yourself and it is wisest to make a noble one of yourself and then you must have confidence and believe you can do this. Master the instincts instead of letting them master you, this is the beginning and then pass through separated. And remember this world is just vanity and was made to corrupt its inhabitants, and this is what the remedy of the 'Ten Commandments' were for.
Be well
Amenuel