What is your "IDEAL" afterlife would be like ?

Rekkd

It's like when you were a kid in that math class. And the teacher gives you an equation to solve.
You compare your result with your friend next to you, and you find different results.

Lol ya dont remind me of those horrible math classes laugh

imrankhawaja

ibadat word mean worship and the meanings of worship is not what usually we consider like rituals...

worship mean to serve,to obey, to devote, to submit...to glorify , thanksgiving, honouring all are synonyms and one more thing sometimes language borrowed words in form of imaginary , methaporically to give us closing understandings.. when that word ibadat we apply to God we assume its about rituals or pray although these are also a part of ibadat .. but not ibadat itself.. abadat is a wide concept ..

there are different situations occurs in our life and what we do in these situation is a real test.. and how you react is your action of worship.. example somebody rob you and it does not mean you rob somebody else for making your loss turn into profit... the submission is to do patience and wait for the judgement of God.. soon you will realsie you lose nothing...its just an example... so basically we have commmands from our lord that must carry on ..

imrankhawaja

Lol ya dont remind me of those horrible math classes laugh

aww i love math .. always... but i always feel most of the people run away from it.. thats the only thing u need to understand the concept ...and then u solve any figure provided to you...but other subjects like science , social studies,history, litereture, commerece most of the people memorise it ... without any practical benefit...

but one day i ask from my math teacher all these difficult question what is the use of these things in practical life.. what we are getting by it actually apart from counting things on daily basis but counting normal things is not really hard.. so what is the purpose of these diffcult step by step questions .. he never gave me answer... peace

Man_of_Faith

ibadat word mean worship

Why are you so sure about that? Have you ever browsed old lexicons for definitions or are you listening to scholars for which may cause you to be gullible?

Devotion is otherwise a quite safe say for the word. Some say service, but devotion weighs heavier on service with enthusiasm since when devoted you tend to do it with the whole of your heart.

A definition one may find is cling unto and it seems that you do something with great interest and passion when .

Be well
Amenuel

imrankhawaja

Why are you so sure about that? Have you ever browsed old lexicons for definitions or are you listening to scholars for which may cause you to be gullible?

Devotion is otherwise a quite safe say for the word. Some say service, but devotion weighs heavier on service with enthusiasm since when devoted you tend to do it with the whole of your heart.

in case if you did not read my full post...

worship mean to serve,to obey, to devote, to submit

we are talking about worship... ibadat is an arabic word... and when translate it to worship people take ideas which are most of the time not in line with actual concept... if u re read my post may b u will find what i was on about

imrankhawaja

@ mof u did not gave the answer to my previous post.. u was about to translate something for me... in case you are unable to do let me know .. plz..

Cerberus

I see you are very eager to get that 2000 post score, Imran police

imrankhawaja

I see you are very eager to get that 2000 post score, Imran police

hahahaha , really... what make you think like that... mr sherlock holmes police

LastDay3

I think we should let "Man of Faith" express his opinion freely. I joined this forum mainly because I wanted to understand his work more.
Right or Wrong he brings interesting work and gives a different view of the Quran.

Salaam/Peace Rekkd,

Welcome to the "Free-Minds" here, welcome
and yes, I also strongly believe that everyone can and should and will always express his/her opinion freely here, inshaAL-LAH,
without any restriction, at all,

but we should also never forget that

in such free platforms,
for example, such awfully deluded and heavily intoxicated Guys (=like "Samarian" in the time of Prophet Moses)
under the influence of Iblees/Satan also expressed his opinion freely there (by the support of his open and covert friends/followers there),
in the absence of Prophet Moses (Peace be upon Him) there,
and thereby he concocted a false and imaginary god (=in the form of a statue of a calf) and then introduced it as

the One and Only Real GOD of Moses and of all Believers there (=20/87-88),

and then this "Samarian" and his open and covert friends/followers there also immediately declared all truthful believers (including Prophet Aaron there)
who absolutely refuted and rejected to follow "Samarian" and his false and imaginary god there as totally astray and mistaken Guys,

and thus Prophet Aaron (Peace be upon Him) and all truthful Believers were (physically/verbally) oppressed and threatened by those
open and covert cronies of "Samarian" there, when they despotically came into power there for sometime (=7/150),

and finally, when Prophet Moses (Peace be upon Him) returned from the Mountain,
he immediately exposed and absolutely refuted and rejected that false and imaginary god
concocted by "Samarian" under the influence of Iblees/Satan there,

and then Prophet Moses (PbuH) rightfully introduced

the One and Only Real GOD of Moses and of all Believers,
in this perfectly clear, unmistakable and straightforward Manner there (=20/95-98).

So our Lord AL-LAH clearly and unmistakably teaches us
that such "Samarians" who will be manipulated by the Command of Iblees/Satan
will always come out in every Age,

=QURAN TESTAMENT 17/64 = 6/71, 112-113
(*so please, absolutely see these Verses again, clearly and openly, in my previous posts above.)

and so therefore, it is a most Essential and important Duty/Responsibility upon each and every truthful Believer here,

to clearly expose such "Samarians," first of all, who are awfully deluded and heavily intoxicated under the influence of Iblees/Satan,

and then again, it is a most Essential and important Duty/Responsibility upon each and every truthful Believer here,

to absolutely refute and reject the false and imaginary gods concocted by such "Samarians" under the influence of Iblees/Satan,

(*such false and imaginary gods who would take some megalomaniac "humans" and eventually turn them into ultra megalomaniac "angelic gods"
to be natural/intrinsic "partners" and a "portion/share/piece/part" of those false and imaginary gods

are called "jibt and taghoot" in QURAN TESTAMENT (=4/51, 60)

and our Lord AL-LAH rightfully commands unto all of HIS truthful Servants to utterly refute and reject such false and imaginary gods
concocted by megalomaniac Iblees/Satan to deceive all the sick minded humans with hugely inflated egos
in order to totally exploit the naive and the gullible who would blindly follow them therein

=QURAN TESTAMENT 4/51 = 43/15 = 5/17-18 = 43/19-20 = 53/19-23, 27-30

*in this respect, we should clearly see again what this awfully deluded and horrifically intoxicated fellow/friend (="Man of Faith&quot
under the influence of Iblees/Satan above, clearly says here

"MoF" says Quran does not use the word ALLAH to refer to GOD .......

ALLAH could be you or "Me", it refers to "SomeOne" 'Who Is'.

So consequently, when this awfully deluded and horrifically intoxicated fellow/friend (="Man of Faith&quot read the QURAN
he reads it thinking that this Most Essential and Important Word (=AL-LAH) always refers to "himself" therein, first of all !!!

So, we should clearly see that this is not an "enormously bewildering situation" here, what we are dealing with,
but this is an "Insanely TRAGIC Situation" here !!!

=QURAN TESTAMENT 25/43 & 17/64 = 6/71, 112-113 & 16/98-99-100
(*so in this respect, please, absolutely see these Verses again, clearly and openly, in my previous posts above.)

And finally, if we see all of those crystal clear Verses of QURAN TESTAMENT --(in each of my previous posts above),
we can clearly and unmistakably recognize the "Samarians" of this Age --(as there are many such "Samarians" especially in cyber world
also with many --open and covert-- blind friends/followers of them therein, in this Final Age),

and therefore again, it is a most Essential and important Duty/Responsibility upon each and every truthful Believer here,
to clearly and unmistakably emphasize this Fact

for the Eternal Salvation and Everlasting Benefits of all Humanity --(including even those "Samarians" and their "blind friends/followers" above),
here again, thus

So therefore, only those who truly repent and wholeheartedly return to "AL-LAH"

as our One and Only "LORD" (="RABB") here (=6/164)

Whose Individual/Personal BEING is absolutely Different/Separate/Distinct above and beyond all Universe/s, all Things we can
ever imagine above us,

QURAN TESTAMENT 70/4 = 42/11 = 112/1-4

and so HE has never appointed no "Partners" to HIMSELF from any of HIS Servants (=i.e. Humans, Angels, Jinns, etc.),
in no way, at all,

QURAN TESTAMENT 6/163 = 17/111

and HE has never ascribed no "Portion/Share/Piece/Part" to HIMSELF from any of HIS Servants (=i.e. Humans, Angels, Jinns, etc.),
in no way, at all,

QURAN TESTAMENT 43/15 = 5/17-18 = 5/72-74 = 43/19-20

shall be forgiven and saved by AL-LAH in this Most Generous & Most Benevolent Manner here,
and they shall always be truthful Human Servants of AL-LAH, in Eternal Serenity & Peace & Victory, forever.

=QURAN TESTAMENT 25/68-69-70-71, 72-73-74-75-76

Remain in peace/salaam.

Man_of_Faith

in case if you did not read my full post...

worship mean to serve,to obey, to devote, to submit

we are talking about worship... ibadat is an arabic word... and when translate it to worship people take ideas which are most of the time not in line with actual concept... if u re read my post may b u will find what i was on about

Worship has a different meaning. That is a word meaning to glorify because one is worth it. In etymology it is coming from an older word that goes worth + ship, e.g. "your worthship".

Be devoted and worship are two completely different things. You might serve because you worship, but that does not make them the same word.

But I did read your post, it was just that it was misleading when you wrote about worship and I replied. You write "not in line" now and is that not obvious since the word does simply not mean worship?

Be well
Amenuel

Man_of_Faith

@ mof u did not gave the answer to my previous post.. u was about to translate something for me... in case you are unable to do let me know .. plz..

Translate what?

Man_of_Faith

I think we should let Man of Faith express his opinion freely. I joined this forum mainly because I wanted to understand his work more. Right or Wrong he brings interesting work and gives a different view of the Quran.

Personally I would never go as far as claiming that the whole concept of one God is false or that we are all within God.

When he said doesnt mean worship but devote in the cause it reminded me of a verse in the Quran that was troubling me for a while Surah 39/53 where Prophet Mohamed was telling the people "Ya ibadi". I have seen alot of explainations for it but it still didnt feel right. Changing the meaning of the world would fix that for me. However, I'm still doing my own research so this is not the conclusion for me.

I'm not saying I believe everything he says, but just like from RK I took what I felt was right/good and left everything else. I would like to see a video of you MOF or Skype so I could see your face while we talk about this.

Your choice what to believe, but I would trust me on this. There is one God but there is also only one God so there is no other foundation meaning everything must exist within that foundation. Instead the question is who is a conscious being or unconscious being within that one unit. The unconscious one insists on being its slaves for which God has no practical use. The conscious one is expanding his/her mind which is the actual purpose. It has nothing to do with worship or vain glorification of a deity which does not need or desire it, but it knows it is an enormous potent foundation already. Desiring worship only worldly and primitive humans do and is too lowly for the the excelled Foundation.

Why would you think this excellent foundation would do something as lowly as to keep unproductive pets, but rather not use their fine coming about for a greater purpose. The human spirit is like the expansion/expression of the Foundation and is in the same image. This is why we are contained within the Foundation or image and we share from its superiority if we allow our mind to grow by separating the weeds also known as the bodily which was imposed to make the sifting and evaluation more potent.

Everything is in association with God, independent or dependent share, it is only that the one who can proclaim itself as its own being has managed to cultivate its innate seed of their Nafs which is required to grow. You see billions of humans on Earth, but only a few have a mind which has any freedom of what humans usually call "free will". If one can resist the driving force of the body and have the mind work separately then they have free will. Then we are all at different stages of development, most have barely developed at all while some have had a very fine progress but are still like the stray sheep of the "Children of Israel" due to a confusing situation around them with a lot of disinformation and misleading parameters, and those I seek to help to help them find themselves.

The Arabic word Rabb means not much more than just foundation or what sustains the same.

Nay, the common traditional Abrahamic concept is false or rather misconceived at points throughout history.

If you would say "Ya Aybedi" you refer to "O devotee".

You wish to see my face to have faith? It reminds me of Jesus' saying "blessed are those who have not seen me but still believe". But yes of course you can see me, I could install Skype and communicate on a video link.

Be well
Amenuel

LastDay3

Salaam to all Brothers/Sisters,

as long as we truly hearken to the WORD (=QURAN TESTAMENT) of our One and Only Lord AL-LAH, (=7/196)
HE always teaches us everything Clearly (=18/1-2) in every issue, and guides us Perfectly. (=5/16)

So here it is

====================
112- And as such, We have made for every Prophet rivals,
the human and the jinn devils who inspire each other fancy messages (like that of Samarian's fancy messages
as clearly witnessed in these Verses in my previous post above =20/87-88 & 95-98)-- in order to deceive (themselves and the gullible).
Had your LORD willed, they would not have done it. So you shall disregard them and what they fabricate.

113- So that the hearts of those who do not truly believe in the Hereafter will incline towards it (=those kind of fancy messages
of those "Samarians" above =20/87-88 & 95-98) and they will like it, and they will try to gain thereof
what they want to gain (as of worldly gains, or egotistic gains such as wrongfully claiming "himself" to be AL-LAH, or a "partner" of AL-LAH,
or a "portion/share/piece/part" of AL-LAH,
thus to satisfy their megalomaniac sick minds and inflated egos).

43- Have you seen the One who has taken his ego (=in Arabic hawahu) as his GOD (by claiming that
he "himself" could be AL-LAH, or a "partner" of AL-LAH, or a "portion/share/piece/part" of AL-LAH).

Can you ever be an advocate over him (to guide or save him)?
(*especially, when/if he insists on being resolute not to resist the Satanic urge upon him and continue
to trust "his being" (=i.e. "ego&quot above.

44- Or do you think that most of them (who would blindly follow such utterly deluded "Samarians," as there are many of them nowadays
especially in the cyber world in this Final Age)-- hear or comprehend?

They are just like livestock (=i.e. they would act in "herd mentality," naively and unconsciously following the "spiritual" Leadership
of such utterly deluded "Samarians" above. These kind of false-fake messiahs & false-fake mahdees appointed by Iblees/Satan
have clearly and unmistakably been foretold in the QURAN here (=6/71 & 6/93).

Indeed, they are farthest astray --(when/if they willfully insist on remaining in their deep delusion and under the influence of Iblees/Satan,
and their consequent ignorance and arrogance till the very end of their normal life here =4/17-18).

QURAN TESTAMENT 6/112-113 & 25/43-44

Remain in peace/salaam.

imrankhawaja

Translate what?

did you not read my posts?

or

my question is so hard to understand...?

i want you to translate chapter 1 verse 1 and 2 in your understanding...

LastDay3

====================
19- And to HIM (belong) whoever is in the heavens and on the earth.
And those who are (truly conscious, of sound mind and intelligent, humble and truthful) in the Sight of HIM
(=Angels & Humans) are never too proud to serve HIM, and they never waver.

20- (due to their true Love and deep Devotion to AL-LAH therein =7/206) they glorify (HIM) Night and Day, they never cease.

The "Light" (=Noor) of AL-LAH
--(which can never be compared and never be likened to any other "light" of/in universes =24/35 = 42/11 = 112/1-4)--
shines unto those who constantly commemorate and glorify AL-LAH (=24/35-3 and it gives them
indescribable Happiness, Consciousness, and Joy and Serenity. (=10/62-64 = 2/257)

.........

27- They (=those Angels & Humans above) do not speak ahead of HIM, and only by HIS Commandment they act.

28- HE knows all that is in front of them and all that is behind them, and they do not intercede unless it is for those whom HE is pleased with.
And (due to their true Love and deep Devotion to AL-LAH =7/206) they always stand in reverent Awe of HIM.

29- And whoever of them says "I am a god besides HIM --(by claiming himself to be a "partner," and a "portion/share/piece/part" of HIM)--
then (that angel or human) We would requite with desolation. (For) thus We have to requite such wicked (to prevent their megalomania
and sick mind and their consequent tyranny over all others here 25/43 = 26/29-6!

*Iblees/Satan himself was an "Angel" previously, but when he claimed himself to be a god besides HIM therein,
by ignorantly and arrogantly claiming himself to be a "partner," and a "portion/share/piece/part" of HIM therein, first of all,

=QURAN TESTAMENT 43/15-16, 19-21 = 53/19-27, 28-30

consequently he became a "Jinn" and was thus rightfully dismissed from the Dominion of AL-LAH therein, because of his such strong megalomania,
and deeply sick mind, and hugely inflated ego & tyranny therein. (=18/50 = 17/61-65)

QURAN TESTAMENT 21/27-29

Remain in peace/salaam.

imrankhawaja

The Arabic word Rabb means not much more than just foundation or what sustains the same.

are you sure thats it ...

Ra-Ba-Ba = to be a lord and master, collect, possess/owner, rule, increase, complete, bring up, preserve, chief, guardian, regulator, determiner, caretaker, provider, sustainer, perfecter, rewarder, creator, maintainer, reposer of properties, developer, former of rules and laws of the growth, foster a thing in such a manner as to make it attain one condition after another until it reaches its goal of completion, the bringing a thing to a state of completion by degrees, whoever possesses a thing is it's rabb.

if you look in the context of quran the bold words perfect fit for the rabb ...

its another thing if you are already made up your mind , i wonder why did not you become an arabic teacher tell people their language is wrong , and a person from 21st century is the first one who point out mistakes in meanings.. police

imrankhawaja

its like telling a mechanic is to doctor how to operate surgery... becoz what i feel arabic is not your native language but you still i m just amazed actually... now i understand why people not really ponder about your claims...
@ MOF

if i debate with you its just a reason i want you to ponder about yourself , surely you are distracted , if you are loyal to your creator revise your thinking and learn the concept of language again ...

if you are asking what you not worth and according to last day if your mind is deluded like satan/samree/pharoah and lot of other people who claim to be God or part of God they are among the losers,

arrogance is not a good thing my brother...

or let us talk something real... did you find anything in quran which indicates your claims.. as i see you are allergic to quran.. and thats the exact situation quran tells about disveleivers , that due to the law of effect on themselves they become blind , who already in a state of denial.. you are just in a denial state to agree on that you are a slave of your God.. or he is your creator.. you continously claim you are a share/portion of God..

may God bless you , and guide you to the right path...

LastDay3

Parents and siblings to be happy ? You can forget about that.
There is a Quran verse that says that the family-ties are gone on the Day of judgement
we will forget about our family and not ask for our family on the day of judgement.
We would only see our fellow believers as a family. .........

Sad story but it makes sense. The family-ties only exists for survival on earth, it is not a necessary thing in the afterlife.

When the horn is blown, no family relations will exist between them on that day, nor will they ask about one another.

Salaam/Peace Dakhan,

I strongly believe there will be no family-relations (=ansaab) between Humans in the hereafter, when/if some members
of the Family are sent into Hell therein due to their own hostilities, aggression (=22/72 & 85/4-10 & ...)
when/if they continue to commit them out of their ignorance and arrogance till the very end of their normal life here
and never truly repent in this World (=4/17-1.

==========
101- So when the horn is blown, then there will be no family-relations (=la ansaab) between them on that Day,
nor will they ask for one another.

V V V V V V V

3- (Because) your relatives and your children will not benefit you, on the Day of Resurrection, (for) HE will separate between you (=i.e. those
who have believed and worked for Righteous-Deeds in this world will thus Rightfully be admitted into Paradise therein 30/15,
and those who have rejected and worked for such Evil-Deeds =22/72 & 85/4-10 in this world will thus Rightfully be admitted into Hell therein 30/16

For AL-LAH is Seer of what you do.

QURAN TESTAMENT 21/101 = 60/3

But on the other hand, all Family members who have believed and worked for Righteous-Deeds in this world
will thus remain as a Great Family (=i.e. all Ancestors and Descendants all together therein)
when they are admitted into Paradise in the Hereafter 30/15,

==========
21- And those (Ancestors/Parents) who have believed, and their descendants/siblings (=dhurriyatuhum) also followed them in belief;
We will have their descendants/siblings (=dhurriyatahum) join them --(in Paradise, in a parallel Universe,
which they will be admitted into, instantly, at the time of their normal death here 16/32
and thus they will instantly be awakened in that Paradise, in their perfect Human form, even to their fingertips therein 75/3-6).

We shall not let any of their deeds go to waste. For every person will be perfectly paid for what he/she did (in this World).

22- And We will supply them with delicious-fruit and wonderful-food such as they desire (some of which may basically be
very similar as in this World in shape and taste therein =2/25).

23- They will also enjoy wonderful-drinks therein, from which there is no nonsense, no sin.

24- And immortal-persons (to attend) to them will be around them, they are (as brilliant) as protected pearls.

25- And they will come to one another asking.

26- They will say We were before this (=in the World) always reverently conscious (of our LORD) (=mushfeqeen thus especially,
by never setting any "partners" to their LORD here 23/57-59)-- amidst our people.

27- So, AL-LAH thus blessed us, and has spared us the agony of the ill-winds.

28- (Because) we were before this (=in the World) always call upon HIM (as our One and Only LORD Who has
never appointed no "partners" to HIMSELF from any of HIS Servants here, in no way, at all 72/19-20 = 17/111).

(Thus) HE is the Most-Kind, the Most-Merciful --(unto all of HIS truthful Servants who decisively refuted and rejected that megalomaniac Iblees/Satan
who tried to proclaim himself to be a "partner" of AL-LAH, in order also to eventually claim "himself" to be AL-LAH,
thus to exploit all Humanity by his deep sickness and tyranny, as/in clearly witnessed in the dark ages
in his cronies (=Catholic Church & Crusades, etc. here =5/17-18, 72-74).

QURAN TESTAMENT 51/21-28

Remain in peace/salaam.

Man_of_Faith

its like telling a mechanic is to doctor how to operate surgery... becoz what i feel arabic is not your native language but you still i m just amazed actually... now i understand why people not really ponder about your claims...
@ MOF

if i debate with you its just a reason i want you to ponder about yourself , surely you are distracted , if you are loyal to your creator revise your thinking and learn the concept of language again ...

if you are asking what you not worth and according to last day if your mind is deluded like satan/samree/pharoah and lot of other people who claim to be God or part of God they are among the losers,

arrogance is not a good thing my brother...

or let us talk something real... did you find anything in quran which indicates your claims.. as i see you are allergic to quran.. and thats the exact situation quran tells about disveleivers , that due to the law of effect on themselves they become blind , who already in a state of denial.. you are just in a denial state to agree on that you are a slave of your God.. or he is your creator.. you continously claim you are a share/portion of God..

may God bless you , and guide you to the right path...

Or it is you who are blinded by an ancient sectarian invention, brother. Your entire faith is incoherent when it comes to the purpose of it. If you employ logic what kind of sound argument do you have for "God's" purpose of keeping pets in a kind of worldly and lowly paradise for the sole reason they managed to flatter him?

You do do not counter me with anything substantial, but only saying I am wrong or it is in contradiction with Quran, but have you ever even tried to evaluate whether the interpretation of it that you know is true or not? I am sure you have not.

You took the example of haram in order to refute me, but you never considered how it can be that one an the same word can mean either sanctified and forbidden. I mean how do you want it? You came up with no constructive answer except telling me how lost I am. Are you not extremely gullible to believe that haram means both sanctified and forbidden because they are in great contrast?

The plain answer which you deny is that haram always means sanctified and nothing else. If you try to claim anything else it is actually you who are the deluded one and not me, and you have nothing sound in ways of countering my argument. All you can is saying what I am and not am, from your ignorant opinion which has no solid foundation to your argument. So what you say about me has no substantiation, it means nothing to anyone who can reflect.

If you like to counter me on an acceptable level you need sound arguments and to break the language down into morphology. Otherwise you are just employing weak accusations against me which carry no merit.

Be well
Amenuel

imrankhawaja

Or it is you who are blinded by an ancient sectarian invention, brother. Your entire faith is incoherent when it comes to the purpose of it. If you employ logic what kind of sound argument do you have for "God's" purpose of keeping pets in a kind of worldly and lowly paradise for the sole reason they managed to flatter him?

You do do not counter me with anything substantial, but only saying I am wrong or it is in contradiction with Quran, but have you ever even tried to evaluate whether the interpretation of it that you know is true or not? I am sure you have not.

You took the example of haram in order to refute me, but you never considered how it can be that one an the same word can mean either sanctified and forbidden. I mean how do you want it? You came up with no constructive answer except telling me how lost I am. Are you not extremely gullible to believe that haram means both sanctified and forbidden because they are in great contrast?

The plain answer which you deny is that haram always means sanctified and nothing else. If you try to claim anything else it is actually you who are the deluded one and not me, and you have nothing sound in ways of countering my argument. All you can is saying what I am and not am, from your ignorant opinion which has no solid foundation to your argument. So what you say about me has no substantiation, it means nothing to anyone who can reflect.

If you like to counter me on an acceptable level you need sound arguments and to break the language down into morphology. Otherwise you are just employing weak accusations against me which carry no merit.

Be well
Amenuel

rotfl

trust me look at all your post again and my post again... what i say it was very simple and easy...

but i feel you are not feeling good when i ask questions from you ,

dnt worry i willl not take a test of your patience... i just wanted to understand your point of view , but you always failed in it... i dnt know why.. may be we all are wrong , and you are true...

same things happen with messengers always they bring a message but no body beleive them..

but there system is quite different through they know how to give answer of every question that should ask,,, like moses make people quiet , abraham make king quiet, and lot of other examples,,

i did not see how an insightful perosn is unable to defend the claims whatever he made like haram, portion share of God and stuff.. Allah is not God ,, oh my God tell me one thing is there is anybody else you find in the world who claim Allah is not God... let me know in that case please... thanx in advance

any way dnt worry about it i feel you need much more time to logically prove your claims and stuff... or to understand all that stuff...

peace
be well