Ibrahim's as words
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You should take a closer look, I am sure you will be amazed.
Yes, my brother, may Allah swt rewards you. My point was that when is sad "qale" it doesn't mean quoting, nor translating someone's words to Qur'anic lisan. It's Allah's swt hadith (as said).
Anyways, this topic is just for all of you to think about "haza" used with Ash-Shams, with connection with ayat from surah Beqareh, from which it should be clear that Ibrahim a.s. didn't comit shirk (as Allah swt informs us), he didn't make jokes on his people (it's for jahiloon, as Moosa a.s. said), nor he was ignorant. He was telling that Allah swt is his Rabb, and we can conclude (with Allah's swt Help) that "haza Ekber" means "Allahu Ekber" and Ibrahim a.s. said these words because it was time for his salat.I don't know why people are trying to reject this, maybe they think that salat is not a prayer which starts with "Allahu Ekber"?!?
It would be nice to get the knowledge about behaviour of Allah's swt friend, we don't have much clear examples of His friends' behaviour. This life is about behaviour, if we wanna think about it.
Allah's bless and selam.
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Salam
(6785)qla he said, V ? 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb(6786)hdh "This (is) DEM ? masculine singular demonstrative pronoun
(6787) rabb my Lord, N ? nominative masculine noun
PRON ? 1st person singular possessive pronoun(678 hdh this (is) DEM ? masculine singular demonstrative pronoun
(6789) akbaru greater." N ? nominative masculine singular noun
(67810) falamm But when CONJ ? prefixed conjunction fa (and)
T ? time adverb(67811) afalat it set, V ? 3rd person feminine singular perfect verb
As one can see the HAZA is masculine And RABB and also AKBAR is all masculine.
I have not been able to find word 1.RAB and neither 2.AKBAR in feminine in the Quran. If there was feminine for either of these words.
It would make sense of, that Ibrahim(as) meant Rab Ul Alameen when he said what he said.
It seems to me one has no choice but to use HAZA preface to RABB and AKBAR in speech, even if one is point at a woman.
511612)
ilhayni is used for Jesus and Marry(pbu them)
(as) two gods N ? accusative masculine dual noun -
My dear brother,
you're thinking wrong. If you point on something it can be near or far. Since the Sun is far you should use demonstrative pronoun for far. But, let's say that there're some conditions under which we can use pronoun for near (but think abou this). After that we should use the "gender" of the noun same as "the object" we're pointing at. Since the Sun is feminine, we should use feminine noun.
You're not right again, because there's femine form of comparative (or super-superlative) "Ekber" and it's "Kubra" (or el-Kubra for superlative) and it's used with feminine nouns
2023 with "ayat" which is feminine
4416 with "batshet" which is feminine
5318 again "ayat" which is feminine
7920 with "ayet" which is feminine
7934 with "tammet" which is feminine
8712 with "nar" which is feminineSo, there's feminine form of "Ekber" in the Qur'an. If you're asking why there's no feminine form of "Rabb", the answer is there was no need for it.
I hope you'll accept this as an ultimate proof that Ibrahim a.s. wasn't pointing at the Shems, he was pointing at Allah swt, Who is coming with the Shems. Allah swt is indeed near, the Shems is far.
May Allah swt guide us.Allah's bless and selam.
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Salam un Aladin
Point noted.Makes sense now.
Thank you. You are one of few persons in these forums to give his proof from Al-Furqan.Q4174
O mankind, there has come to you a conclusive proof from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a clear light/reflection. -
Mazhar, sorry I'm not a scientist. I can't name things in "scientific way", I can name them from the knowledge Allah swt made closer to me, and with it I can see some things (ayats), with His 'izn. So, sorry, I can't answer your questions, 'cause I don't have the knowledge about what you asked.
But, "haza" is a demonstrative pronoun in these ayats. It's used as a "bedel" (replacement) of some noun. I understood this "noun" as "Allah" swt and I explained what I understood/know. I'm asking for forgiveness from Him if I said something wrong, and I'm asking for forgiveness from you if I was rude or if I offended you by anything.Allah's bless and selam.
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Salam un Aladin
Point noted.Makes sense now.
Thank you. You are one of few persons in these forums to give his proof from Al-Furqan.Q4174
O mankind, there has come to you a conclusive proof from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a clear light/reflection.Furqan, my dear brother, I was just happy for something I saw by His 'izn and I wanted to share it with Muslims. I knew and I know that I can't explain what I understood to anybody, but I wanted to tell you that you have to re-think about these ayats.
I haven't used my proof I just used His ayats and they're an ultimate proof for me and for anybody else who're thinking.I pray to Allah swt to remove confusions from us and to guide us to Him, by shadows He made, and not to clear them and leave us in darkness(es).
Allah's bless and selam.
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As I said, I don't know semantic nor any other of sciencies. I don't know grammar, nor I know dictionaries/lexicons, and I don't know ancient or any other of Arabian languages. So, I'm not a scientist in any of sciencies about the language.
But, we surely don't need any of sciences to understand the Kitab. As pharaoh's magicians didn't need anything, including this Kitab we are reading, to understand what they understood. But you know for this, for sure.
I hope I wasn't rude in this and my previous comment, but I wanted to say that "learning sciences" can be very wrong, no matter if it's about the language or anything else. I, and as I can see many others, done things in a bad order I was sent as a kid to a school to learn about Islam as all other Muslim kids here (it's called "mekteb" here), but we learned nothing or less. Then I went to a school and I learned (?) a lot of many sciencies and I was looking at the world with that knowledge I got from school. The correct order is as great Muslims had they were learning the Qur'an from their early age and then, when they got some of the knowledge from it, they started learning sciences. They were so good in all of them, best if I can say. Example of Ibrahim a.s. is over their examples.
So, I'm trying to discard all falsehood I accepted as truth before and all sciences I accepted without the knowledge needed for their learning. Maybe, when I get need knowledge I'll start with semantics and other language sciences all over, and I'll be able to answer your questions about these disciplines, but for now sorry, I can't answer, even easiest questions. Sometimes I forget about all of this and I can say something from the ignorance I accepted before, but I'm very sorry for that and I regret it. We humans are quick and we're forgetting...
Allah's bless and selam.
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Salam brother Mazhar
I my self am not an expert in Arabic, but a student.
Is it probable, that Ibrahim as could have used feminine noun, instead of akbaru
For SHAMS?
678 hdh this (is) DEM ? masculine singular demonstrative pronoun
(6789) akbaru greater." N ? nominative masculine singular noun(44164)l-kub'r the greatest, ADJ ? accusative feminine adjective
(79344)l-kub'r the great, ADJ ? nominative feminine adjectiv -
Salam brother Mazhar
I my self am not an expert in Arabic, but a student.
Is it probable, that Ibrahim as could have used feminine noun, instead of akbaru
For SHAMS?
678 hdh this (is) DEM ? masculine singular demonstrative pronoun
(6789) akbaru greater." N ? nominative masculine singular noun(44164)l-kub'r the greatest, ADJ ? accusative feminine adjective
(79344)l-kub'r the great, ADJ ? nominative feminine adjectivWhen I will talk about the Sun in my native language, I will use all words and pronouns with masculine gender. And if it is conversation, you will translate them in your language by using inverted commas exactly what I have said without changing the gender. So is the case here, his quote is what he said in his language.
He referred to Sun by a masculine demonstrative pronoun. Allah the Exalted conveyed us the same what he uttered. But when Allah the Exalted referred to Sun, the pronoun is feminine because in Arabic the sun is feminine.
One need not be linguist, but at least he should know what is a demonstrative pronoun in his own language, say English and what it refers and what it cannot refer.
Anaphora resolution is a must
Arabic is an agglutinative language, the pronouns can occur as suffixes of nouns, verbs or prepositions. Therefore, Anaphora Resolution is vital to understanding the meaning of Grand Qur'aan. It means the problem of resolving what a pronoun refers to. In written or oral text anaphora can be thought of as ?pointing back or referring to something or someone mentioned earlier?. The entity to which it refers is called its antecedent. The process of determining the antecedent of an anaphor?lexical entity is called anaphora resolution. It is contrasted with cataphora that refers forwards, not backwards.
Pleonastic pronouns are considered non-anaphoric since they are not interpreted as linked to any expression (antecedent). For example, in English the pronoun "it" could be pleonastic, e.g., "It is important".
Pronouns form a special class of anaphors because of their empty semantic structure; they do not have an independent meaning from their antecedent. Thus they will refer a singular entity.Grand Qur'aan is characterized by very frequent use of anaphors. The majority of anaphoric devices in it appear around pronominal anaphors. Hence, the ability to resolve pronoun antecedent is vital to understanding the Qur'aan. Grand Qur'aan relies on the reader's world knowledge and intuition when using pronouns without explicitly including any antecedent information. For example a good number of second person pronouns in the Qur'aan refer to exalted Messenger Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam with no prior mention of his name as we firstly notice in 24.
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My dear, educated brother,
as I said before you started with assumption that the word for the Sun in Ibrahim's a.s. language was masculine. You have no knowledge about this, so this is just making a theory of assumptions. No matter what you will say to defend it, it's wrong and it ALWAYS leads to falsehood. You'll never understand this ayat, Allah swt will forbid it for you, if you continue and if you don't regret what you're doing. I'm not happy for this, I'm just warning you, because you can understand.
I can comment a lot about what you said, but I won't, because I'll enter the same, false game.
My dear brother Furqan, you don't need Arabic language to understand the Qur'an. And Qur'anic language is not Arabic, not this modern Arabic, nor ancient Arabic, any of these.
If we read ayats 5677-79 we can understand who will come close to the Qur'an and there we'll see that we don't need any of "sciencies". We need to be amongs "mutahheroon" (ones who are made clean). To achieve this we should read ayats about this and think about them, and eventally with Allah's Help to get the knowledge about it and with His Help to be amongs these. After that we can know.Don't get into traps, leave all the assumptions and opinions of the people and be humble in seeking Help from Him, that's all you need. Not the knowledge about a single word from Arabic language.
Allah's bless and selam.
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My dear, educated brother,
as I said before you started with assumption that the word for the Sun in Ibrahim's a.s. language was masculine. You have no knowledge about this, so this is just making a theory of assumptions. No matter what you will say to defend it, it's wrong and it ALWAYS leads to falsehood. You'll never understand this ayat, Allah swt will forbid it for you, if you continue and if you don't regret what you're doing. I'm not happy for this, I'm just warning you, because you can understand.
I can comment a lot about what you said, but I won't, because I'll enter the same, false game.
My dear brother Furqan, you don't need Arabic language to understand the Qur'an. And Qur'anic language is not Arabic, not this modern Arabic, nor ancient Arabic, any of these.
If we read ayats 5677-79 we can understand who will come close to the Qur'an and there we'll see that we don't need any of "sciencies". We need to be amongs "mutahheroon" (ones who are made clean). To achieve this we should read ayats about this and think about them, and eventally with Allah's Help to get the knowledge about it and with His Help to be amongs these. After that we can know.Don't get into traps, leave all the assumptions and opinions of the people and be humble in seeking Help from Him, that's all you need. Not the knowledge about a single word from Arabic language.
Allah's bless and selam.
Nothing more idiotic could I read on this forum. All is self contradictory.
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Salam Brother Mazhar
Other than brother Aladin contradiction, the point about Assumptions still stands.Al-Quran is Kitab Ullah. We should not try to fit in our assumptions, when the words are not there within the text. If I personally do not understand/comprehend something of The Book, I leave at that, and than if Allah wills it He unveil's/reveals.What ever is unveiled/revealed from Allah through his Messenger, the only way to be sure that it's al-Haq is to verify from the BOOK ITSELF.
Q7516-17Not move with it your tongue/language to hasten with it.
Indeed, upon Us (is) its collection and its recitation. -
Salam Brother Mazhar
Other than brother Aladin contradiction, the point about Assumptions still stands.Al-Quran is Kitab Ullah. We should not try to fit in our assumptions, when the words are not there within the text. If I personally do not understand/comprehend something of The Book, I leave at that, and than if Allah wills it He unveil's/reveals.What ever is unveiled/revealed from Allah through his Messenger, the only way to be sure that it's al-Haq is to verify from the BOOK ITSELF.
Q7516-17Not move with it your tongue/language to hasten with it.
Indeed, upon Us (is) its collection and its recitation.Grand Qur'aan is void of ambiguity. And it is Arabic Mubeen. There is no assumption that the masculine pronoun for Sun is used by Ibraheim alahissalam and NOT Allah. Firoan is NOT Arabic word. Ibraheim alaihissalam itself is NOT Arabic, but proper nouns are not translated and are mentioned in near sound of original language.
When one does not understand the language of the Book what he would deduce is surely erroneous; NOT Haq.
You the Messenger should not read aloud moving your tongue perusing it, the written text of Qur'aan, so that you might hasten assimilating - internalizing it .
Indeed during intermittent oral communication its gathering and its compilation in sequence for reading is the responsibility resting upon Our Majesty.
Thereat, when We have compiled it, thereby you diligently execute- act in letter and spirit upon its compiled content whatever is since communicated and compiled at given point in time.Afterwards compilation of the revealed part; the responsibility for its explicit elucidation? crystallization of contents through other verbal passages is incumbent upon Our Majesty.
The advice explicitly shows that he was reading it aloud with tongue. What it reflects? It reflects superb intelligence and knowledge-ability of the leader of humanity. He knew the advantages of reading aloud. It sharpens focus and gives greater comprehension and better chance of internalizing the words and sentences.
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Dear brother, he thinks that he knows and he's trying to explain same to you. But, he doesn't know and he can't explain it to anybody. Bayan is on Allah swt, so He will bayan the Qur'an to whom He wills. I told you who are they, "cleaned ones", nobody else can get near the Qur'an. All we need is to read it, as we are ordered to (with behaviour), to think about it, as we are ordered to (with behaviour), to accept what we get (come closer) from the knowledge, as we are ordered to (with behaviour) and to believe in it with His 'izn, as we are ordered to (with behaviour).
I hope you saw live some man with the real knowledge and I hope you liked what you see.
Allah's bless and selam.
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When I will talk about the Sun in my native language, I will use all words and pronouns with masculine gender. And if it is conversation, you will translate them in your language by using inverted commas exactly what I have said without changing the gender. So is the case here, his quote is what he said in his language.
He referred to Sun by a masculine demonstrative pronoun. Allah the Exalted conveyed us the same what he uttered. But when Allah the Exalted referred to Sun, the pronoun is feminine because in Arabic the sun is feminine.
Besides that you are just speculating here, it has absolutely nothing to do with this.
He is referring to the sun as Rab, as he thinks the sun is his Rab and therefore the masculine form is used.
I really don't understand what's so difficult to understand about this.Here Ibrahim uses feminine for sun, because here he is not referring to the sun as his rab but to the sun as the sun. It has absolutely nothing to do with what language he spoke.
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