RE against post "the secret gospel"....

Adam_The_Warner

Has the word Lord same meaning as the word Rabb from the Qur'an?
I hope you're reading those scriptures in their original, because translations can lose truth, as I already told you.

There's no Rabb besides Allah swt.

Allah's bless and selam.

An English translation of the Quran - 547 The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked.,

Aladin_from_Azra_tribe

"Lord" (Greek Kurios, Aramic Mari), the title which often used by the student / follower of Jesus to Jesus, has the same meaning as Sifu (Chinese), Guru (Sanskrit), Sayyid (Arabic), Master.

Yahya a.s. was called seyyid, so maybe this meaning is what hawariyyun used for 'Isa, son of Meryem a.s., too.
This is why no translation is the truth, no matter if it's about the Qur'an or anything else of Allah's Qawl.
If we're thinking in translations I don't see we're doing good.

I can't tell which word is used for Lord in Gospels, but if it's its equivalent to Rabb then it's not a good word, because what was said in 9th surah about some (most) of the Christians. It's sad that we can't use original names.

Adam, you should notice that it wasn't said in accordance with "Gospels", but with what is from Allah swt in them.

I mentioned Yahya a.s., and in surah Meryem is told something about him and 'Isa, son of Meryem a.s. But, what was said for Yahya a.s. was not his direct speech. It was interesting for me, because 'Isa, son of Meryem a.s., said similar words, but as direct speech. Ibn ul-Qawl-ul-Haqq is not dead, but we shouldn't give him names which are reserved only for Allah swt.

Allah's bless and selam.

Adam_The_Warner

Yahya a.s. was called seyyid, so maybe this meaning is what hawariyyun used for 'Isa, son of Meryem a.s., too.
This is why no translation is the truth, no matter if it's about the Qur'an or anything else of Allah's Qawl.
If we're thinking in translations I don't see we're doing good.

I can't tell which word is used for Lord in Gospels, but if it's its equivalent to Rabb then it's not a good word, because what was said in 9th surah about some (most) of the Christians. It's sad that we can't use original names.

Adam, you should notice that it wasn't said in accordance with "Gospels", but with what is from Allah swt in them.

I mentioned Yahya a.s., and in surah Meryem is told something about him and 'Isa, son of Meryem a.s. But, what was said for Yahya a.s. was not his direct speech. It was interesting for me, because 'Isa, son of Meryem a.s., said similar words, but as direct speech. Ibn ul-Qawl-ul-Haqq is not dead, but we shouldn't give him names which are reserved only for Allah swt.

Allah's bless and selam.

Yes, we should learn the languages of the Scriptures. I am learning Hebrew at the moment, all praise due to God. And i know some Arabic, reading, writing, speaking.

Sorry what do you mean with "it wasn't said etc."?

Aladin_from_Azra_tribe

As per translation you used The People of Injeel should RULE... but it wasn't sad in accordance to Injeel (or Gospels if you like), it was said with what is from Allah swt in it/them (Injeel/Gospels).
I can RULE in accordance to Qur'an, because all of it is from Him, but if you read ayat you mentioned, The People of Injeel cannot do so, they have to rule by only with what is from Allah swt. But, this is very interesting, because it's obvious that the People of Injeel know what is from Him and it's not the hard task for them.

It's very good to learn languages, but it won't help in understanding Allah's swt words. We should teach very basics, just to be able to follow the first command from the Qur'an. If we're able to do so, then we should just do it and never stop.

Iqre' bismi Rabbikel-ledhi khalaq

If we're able to do this we need nothing else, just to repeat it. But, we're not following the first command from the Qur'an and we're expecting some khayr for us. How's it possible if we're these and those, but not ones who're able to follow?
As I understood from the Qur'an, nations which heard Allah's Qawl before the Qur'an had very simple tasks too, but most of them were rejecting them, as most of us are doing so.

Allah's bless and selam.

Man_of_Faith

It's very good to learn languages, but it won't help in understanding Allah's swt words. We should teach very basics, just to be able to follow the first command from the Qur'an. If we're able to do so, then we should just do it and never stop.

What do you mean with this? You mean it does not help to learn Arabic in order to understand Quran?

Be well
Amenuel

Adam_The_Warner

Why would you say it does not help to learn the original language of the Book. How can you read an translation of the Quran if you do not know that specific language. I am not even going to listen to someone who tells me that i can't understand the words of God when i am going to learn the original language of the words. What if the translation is wrong. And why do you not apply that methodology on the language of the translation. Without language you wouldn't even be able to communicate with me.

First go learn Greek if you want to talk about the Gospel. What if you conclude your ideology on a understanding which is based on a mistranslation. And like they say in Greek Eirini!

The English word for Gospel in Greek is "Evangelio".

Gospel means "Good News",

"Evangelio" is the Greek word for Gospel,

"Injeel" is an Arabic word for "Evangelio".

An English translation of the Gospel - Matthew 2414 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

An English translation of the Gospel - Revelation 2218 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

Aladin_from_Azra_tribe

It's, my brother, as we're reading, for example, ahadith.
If we don't know the truth we'll "rule" (I used same word as you) with something else besides truth, but if we know the truth we can "rule" what is truth in ahadith and what is not. This was called furqan.

We can understand the truth even if we didn't read one single harf from the Qur'an, as, for example, magicians of pharaoh understood Who's their God. But, they didn't mention His Name (Allah), because they didn't have the knowledge about it. They understood what they were able to understand from what they saw and from what they were thinking about. Thinking ('aql) leads to the knowledge, but we don't have to think about something specific, just some thinking leads to some of the knowledge and some other leads to some other knowledge.

Thinking about the Qur'an as a whole leads to whole knowledge, but it's almost impossible for individual.

So, yes, reading translations can lead us to the truth and the knowledge, if we think about it, as thinking about anything can lead us to the knowledge. But, we have to have Furqan to be able to use our thinking. As I mentioned magicians, there were many of the people who were watching them and Moosa a.s., but only them became believers, because they had Furqan needed to make a difference between lies (from them) and the truth (from Moosa a.s.). For others, it was same what Moosa a.s. was doing and what they were doing.

Similarly, there're ayats, for example, about the seas. But those who have Furqan about the seas can benefit from thinking about Qur'anic ayats about seas more then those who don't have it.

Qur'an is Furqan also, so getting knowledge from the Qur'an is getting Furqan for something (or more things). This includes using Furqan for the Qur'an too. So, when somebody starts with "reading" the Qur'an as we were told to in ayat I mentioned, he'll start getting some of the knowledge from it, as for example meaning of Rabb. This knowledge becomes Furqan with which that person can think about other Qur'anic words and get the knowledge about them, with His Help.

So, translation is not important, Furqan is important. The proof for this is that many people are not reading translations, they read Qur'an in its lisan, but they're not amongs believers. What can confuse people is that the Qur'an is not the only Furqan.

We have to follow order with the Name of Rabb, Who created. If we're doing so all is correct, whatever we're doing. If we're doing something else then even reading the Qur'an day and night will lead us to falsehood.

Yes, Man of Faith. Nothing and nobody can help us to understand the Qur'an, except Allah swt. All we should do is to behave, as we were ordered to, and these tasks are all "qalb"-related and about becoming clean(er).
I'm not saying that learning any language is bad, on contrary, just it's not needed to understand (get closer to 'ilm) anything of His Words.

Allah's bless and selam.

Man_of_Faith

However if you do not know the language you do not know what it says?

Cerberus

Indeed Quran was originally written in Arabic, its arabic words hold a meaning. That meaning is only interpreted by the reader, even if he/she is directly reading on "arabic words". The same principle goes to the translation of the Quran. You only take from the Book what you understand or manage to interpret with your intellectual skills. And that is subjective.

That is why, whether you read it in arabic, or in its translation, you use what you have to use ,either your knowledge of the language or some other tools such as dictionaries or lexicons, in order to get closer to the WORDS that hold the Divine Message.

However, in the back of your mind, or in your heart if you wish, you shouldn't believe that the tools you use will guide you...they are tools you use for the sake of getting closer to the meaning of the words, however only God decides on whether the final outcome is the actual Truth, near the Truth, or far from the Truth.

But all of this have nothing to do with what the OP is addressing. Yet all of this is important to put in mind, in my opinion. It helps to keep one humble in his understanding of the Quran and always open to other people's views.

Aladin_from_Azra_tribe

However if you do not know the language you do not know what it says?

It was said that Kitab was sent WITH (bi) its lisan, and beyan of Kitab is WITH beyan of its lisan.
Definitelly, Qur'anic lisan is not what we know as Arabic language, because knowledge of that language would be enough to all to get beyan of Kitab, but it's not the case, right? But, ones who have the knowledge from Kitab has the knowledge about Qur'anic lisan also, right?
So, "the language" cannot be tought by others then Allah swt and when we talk about it we should know that it's Qur'anic lisan, not Arabic language.

This is the same case as with revalations before the Qur'an was sent to humanity. If we read about revalations to previous nations, for example in surah Beqareh, we can notice that they were speaking the same language, but language and lisan is not same, otherwise "groups" in nations couldn't exist. Those who're reading Bible and Torah should think about languages in Babylon also... what does it mean? How God done it? All of them were talking the same language, but how come they couldn't understand each other?
Is lughat (language) same as lisan (language)?

Allah's bless and selam.

Man_of_Faith

Well, the language needs to have a form of structure which projects the language and of such you may have knowledge. If you lack knowledge of how the words (including letters) are being used in their formation then you can hardly know what it says. Language is like a kind of code which you need to decipher or else you will not be able to understand it.

Obviously if a person knows the language structure this person could actively teach the language too because language is a combination of sounds which expresses what goes on in the mind. If we take Arabic as an example, it works pretty much like a code because it is so perfectly designed since Rabb was involved in its creation. It is like a sacred language which has been developed beyond human involvement.

The administration of this forum is not approving of me speaking what I can reveal so this is as much as I can tell. I perhaps went too far still, it is tiring to be censored, but I consider to leave off the activity on this forum and retire permanently or reduce my participation to those who seek to hear me and then privately on matters.

Be well
Amenuel

Adam_The_Warner