Homosexuality LGBTQI and the deen
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I personally despise the act of same gender sexual attraction..
To me it is disgusting and gross...
Because I was born with heterosexual condition..Yet I do aware of 'homosexuality' in both animals and human..
And it is NOT A DISEASE OR VICE, they are just born with it..
Similar to those who are born with red hair, albino skin, dark skin, phobia of height etc..They can try to hide it, conceal it, control it.. but it can never be changed..
Nobody should bear guilt for the way or the condition that he or she was being born...
Having said that, homosexuality is a disadvantage in terms of biological trait.
That's why it will always remains a minority among human or other animals..Just like anyone who are being 'different'.. (different religion, different skin colour, different opinion, different political affiliation etc..) they will have problem of getting accepted by the society.. Which is also normal due to how human reptilian brain works to infer between "us" or "them", "allies" or "foe", "help" or "threat/danger".... Those who are 'different' usually fell into the later section...
What can be done is try to change the society mindset that "they" are not a danger / threat (homosexuality is not an infectious disease than can be spread) and they are not an 'enemy' (homos doesn't have any agenda of converting heterosexual to homosexualism nor they are scheming to destroy heterosexualist way of life).. This alone can reduce the amount of violence or hate speech towards homosexuality.
PS I sometimes wondered.. why nobody ever asked me since when I realized that I am a heterosexual?
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Salam
415 And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring
four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness,
then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates
their lives, or God makes for them a way out.416 And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall
trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone.
God is Redeemer, Merciful.417 Repentance is only for those who commit a sin out of ignorance
and then repent soon after; these will be forgiven by God, for God
is Knowledgeable, Wise.
418
And there will be no repentance for those who commit sin then
when death comes upon any one of them he says ?I repent now!?
Nor for those who die while they are rejecters. For those We have
prepared a painful retribution.It is clear that homosexuality is haram/forbidden/sin.
Salam
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There is nohint in 4.15 that it refers to same sex relations. It says merely fahisha and this aya and the next fit prostitution, steet prostitution as a glove.
4.16 does not say specifically two males, it could be a male and a female and bearing in mind the previous aya, ti fowws without much complication that it is the prostitute and the client.
It would not make sense that to show same sex relationship plural should be used for women and dual for men. Dual should have been used for both for both to be considered the same, on the other hand how is it that same sex wman would e punished for life and same sex men would get away with mere verbal taunting?
On the ither hand, that series of ayas in sura four deal with social issues not with penal issues. The rescuing of women from the street is a social issue. To rescue women that have to peddle a client int he street and then go to an hour-hotel or whatever is a social issue, not apenal issue and that is how the Qur'an deals with it.
Asto bein born homosexual or heterosexual, while it may be true in comparatively few cases in many cases it is not so. What happens in life is accountable for most of those attitudes or conditions. It is not true either that there is let us say an impermeable barrier between one thing and the other. There is not. Many people could enjoy same sex and many other things if they chose to as well as different sex, the territory for lust is unlimited be it with different sex, same sex or animal or whatever one may care to think.
To dictate morals on the ground of what any number of people have done or could do or what animal do or not do, would be the same as to try to find out whether animals kill other animals or animals of their own species. What if they do? Does it mean that we can do it without regrets?
If we go to the qur'an, what the Qur'an teaches is respect for privacy. What people do in privacy is between them and God. Not of the domain of public opinion.
On the other hand each person is each person, and they would gain nothing from others people approval or disapproval of what they do if the themselves are not satisfied with what they do. They should ask themselves and scrutinize their own motives.
?The question number one regarding the people of Lut? If what they did to males they did it to females would it have been better?
Sexis not a play or a game, it is most serious, so it is to each shoul to really question herself about their reasons or desires for whatever and their behaviour.
For some people it is a matter of choice for others that choice is accompanied by other compulsions, emotional, philosophical, or plain lust, be the fortold choice heteroxexual or homosexual. Sex is not a collective thing but an intimate thing and every sould would benefit of not making it cheap.
Salaam
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There is nohint in 4.15 that it refers to same sex relations. It says merely fahisha and this aya and the next fit prostitution, steet prostitution as a glove.
4.16 does not say specifically two males, it could be a male and a female and bearing in mind the previous aya, ti fowws without much complication that it is the prostitute and the client.
It would not make sense that to show same sex relationship plural should be used for women and dual for men. Dual should have been used for both for both to be considered the same, on the other hand how is it that same sex wman would e punished for life and same sex men would get away with mere verbal taunting?
On the ither hand, that series of ayas in sura four deal with social issues not with penal issues. The rescuing of women from the street is a social issue. To rescue women that have to peddle a client int he street and then go to an hour-hotel or whatever is a social issue, not apenal issue and that is how the Qur'an deals with it.
Asto bein born homosexual or heterosexual, while it may be true in comparatively few cases in many cases it is not so. What happens in life is accountable for most of those attitudes or conditions. It is not true either that there is let us say an impermeable barrier between one thing and the other. There is not. Many people could enjoy same sex and many other things if they chose to as well as different sex, the territory for lust is unlimited be it with different sex, same sex or animal or whatever one may care to think.
To dictate morals on the ground of what any number of people have done or could do or what animal do or not do, would be the same as to try to find out whether animals kill other animals or animals of their own species. What if they do? Does it mean that we can do it without regrets?
If we go to the qur'an, what the Qur'an teaches is respect for privacy. What people do in privacy is between them and God. Not of the domain of public opinion.
On the other hand each person is each person, and they would gain nothing from others people approval or disapproval of what they do if the themselves are not satisfied with what they do. They should ask themselves and scrutinize their own motives.
?The question number one regarding the people of Lut? If what they did to males they did it to females would it have been better?
Sexis not a play or a game, it is most serious, so it is to each shoul to really question herself about their reasons or desires for whatever and their behaviour.
For some people it is a matter of choice for others that choice is accompanied by other compulsions, emotional, philosophical, or plain lust, be the fortold choice heteroxexual or homosexual. Sex is not a collective thing but an intimate thing and every sould would benefit of not making it cheap.
Salaam
Salam,
No it is about homosexuality. Read carefully;
415 And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring
four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness,
then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates
their lives, or God makes for them a way out.416 And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall
trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone.
God is Redeemer, Merciful.It is obvious from 416 that these verses are directed to homosexuals! How can two men commit lewdness? Homosexual acts!
Salam
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Salam
415 And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring
four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness,
then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates
their lives, or God makes for them a way out.416 And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall
trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone.
God is Redeemer, Merciful.417 Repentance is only for those who commit a sin out of ignorance
and then repent soon after; these will be forgiven by God, for God
is Knowledgeable, Wise.
418
And there will be no repentance for those who commit sin then
when death comes upon any one of them he says ?I repent now!?
Nor for those who die while they are rejecters. For those We have
prepared a painful retribution.It is clear that homosexuality is haram/forbidden/sin.
Salam
Really? Remember that homosexuality is an attraction, and not a sexual act.
Homosexuality is normal and prevalent in nature, and scientific and medical consensus is also that it is normal. Have people listened to what is being said, and considered it? Knowledge should be considered, and not casually thrown away.
American Psychological Association
Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experienceSource https//web.archive.org/web/20130808032050/http//www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom GOD has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and heart, all these you are responsible for.
Further, which word in AQ means "homosexual act?"
6836 What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
6837 Or do you have a book which you study?
6838 In it, you can find what you wish?l-fishata means lewdness/immorality.
In AQ 415, witnesses are required. Regarding what a witness is...
2844 And you were not on the western slope when We decreed the command to Moses. You were not a witness.
We have no business paying "bedroom police" to each other.
4912 O you who believe, you shall avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is sinful. And do not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite. Would any of you enjoy eating the flesh of his dead brother? You certainly would hate this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Merciful.
Is it possible that the lewdness referred to in 415 and 416 refers to married people, and thus adultery?
244 Do you exhort the people to do good, but forget yourselves, while you are reciting the Book? Do you not comprehend?
4242 The error is upon those who oppress the people, and they aggress in the land without cause. For these will be a painful retribution.
If a person isn't homosexual is not a reason to say that others can't or shouldn't be. An opinion or tradition is not a valid reason to say, with stolen authority, what is allowed or disallowed. It could well be that those who are heterosexual that create lies about what is disallowed or that oppress those that are different are worse than those that they attempt to control.
5332 They avoid major sins and immorality, except for minor offences. Your Lord is with vast forgiveness. He has been fully aware of you since He initiated you from the earth, and while you were embryos in the wombs of your mothers. Therefore, do not ascribe purity to yourselves; He is fully aware of the righteous.
The Almighty has created gay mosquitoes and gay men. Who are we to judge them?
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Beg pardon, last post accidentally posted while incomplete.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Salam,
I'm only trying to tell you homosexuality is sinful. You say homosexual acts, this and that; stop with the excuses, you know what I mean. A homosexual won't be homosexual without doing the disgusting things the homosexuals do.
If you continue with your desire or not; it won't be a sin on my part, but on you and those who act. Repent while you can, and when you see the homosexuals that you so much advocate for, tell them to repent and reform.967 The hypocrite males and the hypocrite females, they are to each
other. They order vice and prohibit good, and they close their
hands. They forgot God, so He will forget them; indeed, the
hypocrites are the wicked.971 And the believing males and the believing females, they are allies
to one another. They order good and prohibit vice, and they hold
the Education-Process, and they contribute towards purification
and they obey God and His messenger. God will have mercy on
them; God is Noble, Wise.Salam
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416 And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall
trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone.
God is Redeemer, Merciful.It is obvious from 416 that these verses are directed to homosexuals! How can two men commit lewdness? Homosexual acts!
Peace --
24 wa-alladhna/and the ones (plural; any sex)
416 wa-alladhni/and the two (i.e. any two people; any sex)
2191 wa-allat/and the one (feminine)
3933 wa-alladh/and the one (any one; any sex)
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Greetings and Peace, all group
My comments in red.
Salam,
I'm only trying to tell you homosexuality is sinful.
And I reject you and your interpretations as a partner. As a thought experiment, replace homosexuality with dancing. AQ is silent on dancing. It is something that two men or two women can do. If you believe that dancing is sinful, don't do it, but don't mistake your likes/dislikes for the authority to say that something is allowed/disallowed.
You say homosexual acts, this and that; stop with the excuses, you know what I mean. A homosexual won't be homosexual without doing the disgusting things the homosexuals do.
A homosexual is a homosexual whether they act upon their inclinations or not; that isn't an excuse, but a definition. What "disgusting" acts, exactly? There are few things that homosexuals do that heterosexuals do not. To say that something is forbidden/sinful because it doesn't interest you is a lie.
If you continue with your desire or not; it won't be a sin on my part, but on you and those who act. Repent while you can, and when you see the homosexuals that you so much advocate for, tell them to repent and reform.
I haven't told any lies. I've backed up my thought process logically, and with evidence from AQ. My understanding, after considering all of the evidence, is that homosexuality and homosexual acts are not disallowed in the deen.
967 The hypocrite males and the hypocrite females, they are to each
other. They order vice and prohibit good, and they close their
hands. They forgot God, so He will forget them; indeed, the
hypocrites are the wicked.971 And the believing males and the believing females, they are allies
to one another. They order good and prohibit vice, and they hold
the Education-Process, and they contribute towards purification
and they obey God and His messenger. God will have mercy on
them; God is Noble, Wise.Salam
58 O you who believe, stand for GOD and be witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and be aware of GOD. GOD is expert over what you do.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
My comments in red.
58 O you who believe, stand for GOD and be witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and be aware of GOD. GOD is expert over what you do.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
Salam,
Here are commands from God regarding the homosexuals, and God is the Most Just and He is the Wisest of the wise ones!
415 And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way out.
416 And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful.
Salam
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Salam,
Here are commands from God regarding the homosexuals, and God is the Most Just and He is the Wisest of the wise ones!
415 And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way out.
416 And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful.
Salam
r?Repeating your thoughts ad nauseam does not make them any truer.
Salaam
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In 4/15-4/16 the Quran speaks of "public" unacceptable behavior
which most of us would agree, I don't want to see a man and woman
being intimate in public and definitely don't want to see two men
being intimate in public. None can "witness" acts behind closed doors hmmpolice
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In 4/15-4/16 the Quran speaks of "public" unacceptable behavior
which most of us would agree, I don't want to see a man and woman
being intimate in public and definitely don't want to see two men
being intimate in public. None can "witness" acts behind closed doors hmmpolice
Salam,
Nope, it doesn't say public. Where in these verses does it say public?
No brother, God is commanding the believers what to do with the homosexuals. "the two men who commit it"(it=lewdness)=homosexuals.
If one cannot be witness behind closed doors for homosexual acts, it means also that we can't be witness to anyone who commits adultery unless they do it in public????
This can't be right because if we look at what is said about the adulterers we see that if there weren't 4 witnesses then they have to swear oaths; which means it doesn't matter where these things are committed....public or private.
In the case of homosexuals, God hasn't told us anything about swearing oaths against them, but we do need 4 witnesses. Lastly, the
"four witnesses" is in verse 415 in which God commands us against homosexual women. I don't know if you need 4 witnesses for the homosexual men.Salam
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sex outside the marriage bound is not allowed simple is that...
on other hand how can you do marriage with somebody who is of same sex... nope
if not then if two boys do jigi jigi , what catagory is it... hmm
and what if you do sex with animals its also not written in quran
moreover if something is not in black and white it does not mean God allowed it..
homo or hetro are not allowed apart from the bound of marriage...
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some key verses to ponder
780 And Lot, when he said to his people "Do you commit lewdness to an extend that none in the worlds had surpassed you?"
781 "You come to men with desire instead of women; you are a transgressing people".26165 "Are you attracted to the males of the worlds?"
26166 "You leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people!"peace
may Allah guide us to the right path -
Greetings and Peace, all group
sex outside the marriage bound is not allowed simple is that...
on other hand how can you do marriage with somebody who is of same sex... nope
if not then if two boys do jigi jigi , what catagory is it... hmm
and what if you do sex with animals its also not written in quran
moreover if something is not in black and white it does not mean God allowed it..
homo or hetro are not allowed apart from the bound of marriage...
Remember that homosexuality is an attraction to the same sex. Homosexual acts are different from an attraction. A man that marries a woman and never undertakes a homosexual act in his life is still a homosexual if attracted to other men.
And what is marriage? A license? A contract? Were there not marriages before writing? It could be argued that the sexual act is marriage. On the other hand, if sexual acts are only permissible inside marriage, then surely those that deter homosexuals from marriage are not preventing lewdness, but causing it. Those that claim that homosexuals are not welcome in Islam deter others from the deen. The "morality police" need to look to themselves before attempting to better others.
Certainly, approaching others out of lust is not okay--and this is without regard to a person's attraction(s).
Sex with animals is a straw man argument, the discussion is about about homosexuality and homosexual acts. Please start another thread if you seriously want to talk about bestiality.
422 And do not marry who your fathers had married from the women, except what has already been done. It is a lewdness, and an abhorrence, and an evil path.
423 Forbidden for you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and the sisters of your father, and the sisters of your mother, and the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, and your foster mothers who suckled you, and your sisters from suckling, and the mothers of your women, and your step-daughters who are in your lodgings from your women with whom you have already consummated the marriage; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and those who were in wedlock with your sons who are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. GOD is Forgiving, Merciful.
424 And the emancipated from the women-except those committed to by your oath-is God's decree over you. And it is permitted for you to seek beyond this category that you employ your wealth, to be emancipated, not for illicit sex. So, for those of them you find pleasing, then you shall give them their dowries as an obligation; and there is no sin upon you for what you agree on after the obligation. GOD is Knowledgeable, Wise.
So then, are homosexual acts beyond this category, or are they included somewhere? ) If they are included, please show where.
I'd also like to point out that many of the translations for "wife" are more properly translated as "pair."
Indeed 5149 And of everything We created a pair, perhaps you may remember.
So, what is the pair for a homosexual? Are they destined to be lonely? A homosexual can no more make themselves attracted to the opposite gender than a heterosexual can make themselves attracted to the same gender. Very strange that all known species capable of sexual reproduction exhibit homosexuality--how peculiar that something that is so prevalent and normal would be unnatural in humans!
The Almighty is not ashamed to Guide us; please point out the word or words that mean homosexual or homosexual act...be sure to cross reference those words elsewhere so that they don't mean "adultery" in one place and "homosexual acts" in another.
If it isn't prohibited, what is its status?
Please very carefully consider before saying that something is not allowed.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
My comments in red.
some key verses to ponder
780 And Lot, when he said to his people "Do you commit lewdness to an extend that none in the worlds had surpassed you?"
It is a poor translation that leads to poor understanding. Sabaqakum does not mean surpassed. http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=7&verse=80
Please consider the following translations
FM 780 And Lot, he said to his people "Do you commit immorality such as none of those of the worlds had done before?"
Sahih International And Lot when he said to his people, "Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds?
Pickthall And Lot! (Remember) when he said unto his folk Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?
Yusuf Ali We also (sent) Lut He said to his people "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you?
Shakir And (We sent) Lut when he said to his people What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you?
Muhammad Sarwar Lot told his people, "Why do you commit such indecent acts that have never been committed by anyone before?
Mohsin Khan And (remember) Lout (Lot), when he said to his people "Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns)?
Arberry And Lot, when he said to his people, 'What, do you commit such indecency as never any being in all the world committed before you?
Have you considered that existing physical evidence show that homosexual acts in society predate the people of Lot by over a thousand years, and for thousands of years before that in smaller groups? It shoots a hole in the argument that the people of Lot were chastised for homosexual acts.
781 "You come to men with desire instead of women; you are a transgressing people".
So then, is it okay to approach women with desire? 781 mentions lust, and seems to be exacerbated by the fact that the lust is to other men.
26165 "Are you attracted to the males of the worlds?"
26166 "You leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people!"Again, the above translations are skewed. Atatna does not mean attracted. http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=26&verse=165
FM 26165 "Do you approach the males of the worlds?"
Sahih International Do you approach males among the worlds
Pickthall What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males,
Yusuf Ali "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males,
Shakir What! do you come to the males from among the creatures
Muhammad Sarwar Do you, in the world, want to have carnal relations with males
Mohsin Khan "Go you in unto the males of the 'Alamin (mankind),
Arberry What, do you come to male beings,
So, is it okay to approach other humans in lust? Is it okay to leave a spouse to engage in sexual acts with another? It wouldn't matter if the men were pursuing women or men--it just so happened that they preferred men. It was the lustful approach to others, and perhaps adultery that is the real issue.
peace
may Allah guide us to the right pathThere is also the teeny tiny problem of the women and children among the people of Lot being destroyed. They were innocent of homosexual acts. Could it be that the men were destroyed for the same reason as the women and children?
1715 Whoever is guided is guided for himself, and whoever is misguided is for his own loss. And no bearer may carry the burden of another; and We were not to punish until We send a messenger.
2929 "You approach the males, and you sever the way, and you bring all vice into your place." But the only response from his people was to say "Bring us the retribution of GOD, if you are being truthful!"
Maybe it was the response of the people that lead to their destruction.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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There is also the teeny tiny problem of the women and children among the people of Lot being destroyed. They were innocent of homosexual acts. Could it be that the men were destroyed for the same reason as the women and children?
What happened might be a big meteorite impact....
The time and place for such event has been designated, imprinted on the trajectory of the Meteorite..
The impact of the event also affects 3 other neighboring Canaanite cities on the plain (Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboim)If the legend is true, then 'a certain party' (named as 'angels' already know about the incoming meteorite and try to warn Lot and his family.
The survivor (Canaanites, Israelites etc) then trying to make a 'causal' relationship of such destructive event...
And they linked up the Homosexuality habits of (only one) of the impacted city of Sodom as probable cause on why "their God sent down destruction from the heaven". -
The sectarian interpretation of Quran says the community did commit highway robbery and other things. Perhaps they sex tortured their victims. Who knows?