two "Men/Male" Witnesses = two "Women/Female" Witnesses =2:282
-
But and are feminine words. How can we apply them to a male?
Remain in peace/salaam.
Salaam/Peace Novice,
if we rightfully consider those "two-Men" or/and "two-Women"
mentioned in this Verse above (=2/282)as the direct descendant of this ancestor "Nafs" (="Soul/Self", equally,
from the very Beginning, here (=4/1),then we can clearly see that these feminine terms
and
can lawfully and perfectly refer
to "one of those two-Men" or/and to "one of those two-Women" above,
as "Nafs" (="Soul/Self", equally and perfectly, therein.)
I have already tried to clearly point it out in my very first post and then also in a more elaborate way
in reply#18 above,in this specific connection therein 4/1 = 2/282
And here, I would like to clearly point out another important Evidence in QURAN TESTAMENT
that may clearly and unmistakably prove again our basic approach above.===============
17- And if one of them is given news of that which (=a Daughter) he puts forth as an example for The ALMIGHTY,
his face becomes dark, and he is miserable!18- (Because he wrongfully thinks) What good is an offspring (=a Daughter) that is brought up (=yunashshau)
in ornaments, and he (=huwa) is with regard to fighting not clear/strong?QURAN TESTAMENT 43/17-18
As we can clearly see (in regular Arabic rules) it should have been in "feminine" terms,
as"tunashshau" and "she" when referring to a "Daughter" above,
but our Lord AL-LAH Rightfully makes an exception therein and can thus use "masculine" terms,
as"yunashshau" and "he" when referring to a "Daughter" above,
so also in this connection, we can again clearly see that these "feminine" terms here,
as"tadilla" and "al-ukhra" can exceptionally refer to a "Man" or/and a "Woman," equally,
also in this specific connection 43/18 = 2/282
for/in this specific Context above (=2/282), from the very Beginning.
Because as I have already tried to strongly emphasize in my previous posts above,
if we were to go with this traditional/classical translation here nowand bring "two-witnesses" from among your "men," but if there are not "two-men,"
then "(one) man" and "two-women," of whom you will be satisfied as witnesses, .........then consequently, we would have had to absolutely assume that
that "(one) man" would never "go astray" (dalla) above,
because to "go astray" (dalla) is a trait which belongs exclusively to those "women," above.And I think there is Absolutely no Evidence in the whole context of QURAN TESTAMENT and also in Science
that would support such an assumption above.Remain in peace/salaam.
Whatever I have said that may be perfectly Correct and Right is from AL-LAH,
and whatever I have said that may be essentially or partially mistaken or wrong
may only be from my own self (shortcomings) (=34/50) -
the verb is not dual ither ...
Peace huruf -- really in context?
2282 ... i'dhum/one of them dual (f) ...
2825 so came to him i'dhum/one of them dual (f) ...
2826 said (f) i'dhum/one of them dual (f) ...The same goes
No, it can only refer to a group or female never to a man.
2282 ... l-ukh'r/the other (f)...
5320 and manat the third (f) l-ukh'r/the other (f)...
Peace LastDay3, you write too much preoccupied with formatting, colors, makes your post difficult to read.
Again show (quran, hadith, poetry, etc.) that word below can refer to a man? This is ridiculous to even ask.
2282 ... l-ukh'r/the other (f)...end case!
-
Peace huruf -- really in context?
2282 ... i'dhum/one of them dual (f) ...
2825 so came to him i'dhum/one of them dual (f) ...
2826 said (f) i'dhum/one of them dual (f) ...No, it can only refer to a group or female never to a man.
2282 ... l-ukh'r/the other (f)...
5320 and manat the third (f) l-ukh'r/the other (f)Peace LastDay3, you write too much preoccupied with formatting, colors, makes your post difficult to read.
Again show (quran, hadith, poetry, etc.) that word below can refer to a man? This is ridiculous to even ask.
2282 ... l-ukh'r/the other (f)...end case!
I don't think you got what I meant.There is concordance in the singular femeinine, but that does not mean that only a singular feminine can make mistakes, but that the one particular case which serves as precedent is singular feminine. Both women would make mistakes, both men mentionned at the beginning can make mistakes, anybody can make mistakes and all of them are or can be
of those who satisfy you as witnesses.
Al shuhadaa' in this quoted sentence is plural and comprises persons of both sexes, therefore all the previous speech concerns witnesses of both sexes and the whole refers to them even if the concordance for tadilla goes to the last person mentionned.
"of those who satisfy you as witnesses"
refers to the whole set and everything referring to witnesses is applicable to both sexes in any number although for explanations purposes it has been personalised. As last Day and myself have have repeated, any witness can make mistakes, man or woman, one two or three or three hundred, but there is a pool of possible witnesses and it explains that from that pool the witnesses must be chosen and what can happen, and which is also the reason for always wanting more than one witness, be it men or women, which is the possibility of checking against the other, something very obvious and which applies and has always applied to both sexes.
The Qur'an is not addressing the inhabitants of the moon but the people like us who live here and now and lived there and then at any time.Thinks must check against facts and observable reality. The Qur'andoes not order us to evade reality whenever we intend to follow its injunctions, rather the opposite.
Salaam
-
Peace LastDay3, you write too much preoccupied with formatting, colors, makes your post difficult to read.
Again show (quran, hadith, poetry, etc.) that word below can refer to a man? This is ridiculous to even ask.
2282 ... l-ukh'r/the other (f)...end case!
Salaam/Peace Noon,
formatting, colors are intended to make those posts very clear and easy to read,
not to make them difficult, my dear Friend,
but if it still bothers you, I apologize; please, try to completely ignore them here.As I have already made it very clear in my previous posts
I understand these specific "feminine" terms here= so that if "one of them" (=i.e. "one of those two-Men" or/and "one of those two-Women" above)
goes-astray (due to forgetfulness, or negligence, or any other his/her shortcomings therein),= then "one of them" (=i.e. "one of those two-Men" or/and "one of those two-Women" above)
may remind the other (=i.e. the other "one" already mentioned above).because when we clearly see that these
"two-Men" (="Rajulayn" or/and "two-Women" (="Amraataan" above
are perfectly described as the direct descendants of this ancestor "Nafs" here (=4/1,----*because in this specific Verse above
it is clearly and unmistakably emphasized that
"all-Men" (="Rijaal" and "all-Women" (="Nisaa" are direct descendants of this
ancestor "Nafs" --of (Adam and Eve), therein, perfectly and equally, from the very beginning =4/1)----so thus our Lord AL-LAH may clearly be referring
to these "two-Men" (="Rajulayn" or/and "two-Women" (="Amraataan" above,
in this specific connection,
as "Nafs" (=as the direct descendants of this ancestor "Nafs" --of Adam and Eve),
rightfully and equally therein above (= & ),
from the very Beginning.I hope this may be the last time I strongly emphasize this most essential point
due to this most clear and perfect Connection here, first of all
4/1 = 2/282
And in this connection, we can also clearly see that this specific "feminine" term
= the other
can clearly refer to the "Nafs" --(of each and every "Man" or/and of each and every "Woman"
rightfully and equally again also here===============
42- AL-LAH seizes the "Nafs" --(of each and every "Man" or/and each and every "Woman"
at the time of their death; and for those that have not died, during their sleep.
HE then keeps the one that has been overtaken by death, and HE sends the other (= ) back(=thus this "feminine" term (= )
refers to the "Nafs" --(of each and every "Man" or/and each and every "Woman,"
rightfully and equally also here above)until a predetermined time. ............
QURAN TESTAMENT 39/42
So in this most clear and perfect Connection here
4/1 = 2/282 = 286
(*please, certainly see it again in more elaborate way, in reply#18 above)it seems perfectly clear to me that this Understanding here
is the Right one= so that if "one of them" (=i.e. "one of those two-Men" or/and "one of those two-Women" above)
goes-astray (due to forgetfulness, or negligence, or any other his/her shortcomings therein),= then "one of them" (=i.e. "one of those two-Men" or/and "one of those two-Women" above)
may remind the other (=i.e. the other "one" already mentioned above).And even if we were to forget and totally ignore (for a moment here) this perfect connection
and clear Understanding above,I can again clearly and unmistakably see that these "feminine" terms here
must be referring to those "two-Men" or/and "two-Women" above, equally,
in this specific Context above, in such an exceptional manner therein,as our Lord AL-LAH has also used, for example, these "masculine" terms here
===============
18- (Because he wrongfully thinks) What good is an offspring (=a Daughter)
that is brought up (=yunashshau) in ornaments, and he (=huwa) is with regard to fighting not clear/strong?QURAN TESTAMENT 43/17-18
in this specific Context above, in such an exceptional manner
(Daughter = yunashshau = he) therein.So our Lord AL-LAH thus Rightfully and clearly makes such exceptions --(for Good/Best Reasons &
most Superb Wisdom behind it which may be perfectly Understood a little bit later =21/37)-- in QURAN TESTAMENT.Because our Lord AL-LAH has no Obligation, at all, to follow regular Arabic rules, (21/23 = 28/6
from the very Beginning.Because our Lord AL-LAH is the One and Only and Perfect TEACHER of QURAN TESTAMENT, (55/1-2 = 75/17-19)
from the very Beginning.So finally, again, let me strongly emphasize, one more time,
also this fundamentally important Fact hereIf we were to go with this traditional/classical translation here now
and bring "two-witnesses" from among your "men," but if there are not "two-men,"
then "(one) man" and "two-women," of whom you will be satisfied as witnesses, .........then consequently, we would have had to absolutely assume that
that "(one) man" would never "go astray" (dalla) above,
because to "go astray" (dalla) is a trait which belongs exclusively to those "women," above.And I think such an assumption above would be
fundamentally and totally Against
=the whole context and perfect Teaching of QURAN TESTAMENT, first of all,
75/39 = 9/71-72 = 33/35 = 2/286and
=the clear findings in Science, in this respect, secondly,and
=the clear understandings in Ethics, in this respect, thirdly.Remain in peace/salaam.
Whatever I have said that may be perfectly Correct and Right is from AL-LAH,
and whatever I have said that may be essentially or partially mistaken or wrong
may only be from my own self (shortcomings) (=34/50) -
Regarding this aya I would also like to emphasize again that the original does not say
"and if there are not two men"
It does not say a word about the abundance of males or females but merely as to the choices that could be made by those seeking out witnesses. It says
That is "if it is not two men, then..."
Which amounts to You can choose two men, one man and one mwoman or two women,
That is, you are free to choose whatever you want from amongst those who satisfay you as withnesses,
Thsi reminds me a lot of the little insertion in the the aya on inheritance, where systematically an "only" which s not there has been inserted before "daughters" in order to deprive females of their share in the inheritance.
In this case an "only" which is not there has been inserted before "men" in order to divest women of their civil capacities. And centuries of people have been hypnotyzed into swallowing it hook and sinker, myself included.
Salaam
-
Salaam/Peace to All,
here we shall witness one final --most remarkable-- "detail" that perfectly indicates to us,
again, that there should bei.e. two-Men witnesses = two-Women witnesses
in perfect Equality above, by our Lord AL-LAH's most Wise and perfect Commandment unto us here,
from the very beginning= and bring-as-witnesses
= two-witnesses
= from among your Men,
= but if it is not two-Men
= then one-Men (will suffice). full stop
(*this clear emphasis --due to/on this same letter in Arabic-- above
i.e. ...... and ..... at the very beginning of those two phrases above
thus clearly indicates to us to stop perfectly therein with a full stop. first of all,
And thereafter it perfectly continues as follows= And --(it shall apply exactly the same as/in the above situation
--exactly like that of at the very beginning above--
with regard to)-- two-Women,(=i.e. we may thus also legitimately bring
two-witnesses from among our Women,
but if it is not two-Women
then one-Woman will suffice;
equally and exactly as/in the above situation, therein, like that of at the very beginning above therein.)= from whom you will be satisfied --(among those Men or/and among those Women above,
equally)-- of/as Witnesses.= so that if "one of them" (=i.e. "one of those two-Men" or/and "one of those two-Women" above)
goes-astray (due to forgetfulness, or negligence, or any other his/her shortcomings therein),= then "one of them" (=i.e. "one of those two-Men" or/and "one of those two-Women" above)
may remind the other (=i.e. the other "one" already mentioned above).
And finally, here are "19" coded, most Superb and matchless MIRACLES, in this regard,
that will make the Final Conclusion, for us,
again, Clearly and Unmistakably, in this respect above, inshaAL-LAH,
now, finally, here thus"two-Men" =or= "two-Women"
witnesses witnessesV V
Chromosomes Chromosomes Chapter No.
Man Man Woman Woman above
23 23 23 23 23 23 23 23 002--or/and--
"two-Men" =or= "two-Women"
witnesses witnessesV V
Verse No. Chromosomes Chromosomes
above Man Man Woman Woman
282 46 46 46 46=19x... =19x...
*Please, certainly note that
due to the fact that the biggest Chapter No. in QURAN TESTAMENT
is thus specifically a three-digit Number (=i.e. 114),
therefore we can thus rightfully place that most specific Chapter No. above
in such a specific manner as three-digit Number therein (=i.e. 002),
in such a perfectly parallel/equal manner (002 = 282),
in this specific respect therein, from the very beginning.*And please, certainly note that we, all Humans (=i.e. Man & Woman),
essentially have "23" pairs of chromosomes, equally (=23 23 & 23 23),
or as/in total "46" chromosomes, equally (=46 & 46),*we may clearly see it here
http//www.news-medical.net/health/Human-Chromosomes.aspxso we have thus rightfully placed them
as/in "23" pairs of chromosomes, equally (=23 23 & 23 23)
for/on the left side above,and as/in total "46" chromosomes, equally (=46 & 46),
for/on the right side above,by this most Wise and perfect Creation Design of our Lord AL-LAH,
from the very Beginning.===============
37- Was it not a "tiny-drop" from ejected semen (=i.e. "sperm cell" therein);38- Then it became a "hanging-thing" (=i.e. "embryo" therein), and HE created and formed (it).
39- And HE made from it the Pair, (thus equally) (as) the "Man-Male" and the "Woman-Female".
--(*also and especially, in all of these most specific Aspects above.)*So please, also absolutely see, in this regard, here
CHROMOSOMES of "Man" & "Woman" MIRACLE, right here now =41/53
http//www.19covenant19.com/cms/images/dosyalarim/CHROMOSOMES%20of%20_Man%20&%20Woman_%20MIRACLE,%20right%20here%20now%20=41_53.pdfQURAN TESTAMENT 75/37-39
Remain in peace/salaam.
Whatever I have said that may be perfectly Correct and Right is from AL-LAH,
and whatever I have said that may be essentially or partially mistaken or wrong
may only be from my own self (shortcomings) (=34/50) -
Nothing is actually wrong in seeing men having a degree over women.
Look at nature. Can you see that males or females are equal? Nope. Look at the extinct animals like dinos. T-Rex females were known for their size and strenght, which was higher than that of males. They were simply stronger and bigger. Look at lions. Males are almost twice the size and are generally the leaders.
The same with people. It is not a secret that overall, males are stronger than females. We are simply better fit for adaptation. Our ancestors used to hunt. All hunters were male. Females were gatherers. As the world developed it shifted from matriarchy to patriarchy. Because of competition. Something men are better in than women.
People create the construct of equality to make it seem that there is justice. ut justice is different from euqality. The artificial equality we have is not really working. Both genders are unique and can do specific things better than others. We think differently, percieve differently and feel different. Look at Europe, working females who want to sit in the offices. The result is less fertility. Females are meant to stay home and manage children. Of course, that does not mean they can't have fun or go around without guardian.
But it is important to have roles in the society and not forced equality. Let us face it. Women are more emotion orientated while men are more logical, thus, we have two women instead of one man. If a woman feels sorry for a ''hearbreaking'' testimony of a criminal, the second (maybe more logical) woman can remind her to be more focused. It does not mean that women can't reason or use logic or are stupid. it simply means that in court decisions as witnesses, men are simply better. Women can be better in other things, feeding the poor for example.
Peace O0
-
How is strength related to adaptation?
Men and women humans are animals, a kind of primate. In this species, males have better physical strength than females.
And I stand doubtful to that women would have been matriarchs at the break of dawn, and from the beginning of the evolution of the species it is most probable that the male has had the highest physical strength.
The female Homo sapiens has gender attributes superior to the male in specific areas while the male is superior in others.
Existence is not all about strength, is it?
It is good to have empathy for the heartbreaking story of a criminal and try to understand that sorry person. I was born male and I can pity a person who turned wrong in life.
If like you say, the male is so cold, firm and with a square-like mind it is rather good a female is accounted for when it comes to justice.
Did you learn nothing? Forgiving is more important than to convict, even your sectarian interpretation of Quran says it.
Fortunately, only spiritually immature reason that way and the one with detachment from the bodily will be more wise as this person is not burdened by the primitive impulses of the primate body.
And you say women cannot be hunters? Women are said to have a better skill at marksmanship, if they are let to. Everything is about what society and those in control let the other to do.
Be well
Amenuel -
Strength was just an example. There is a difference between genders across species. Women were leaders when there was gathering. When the hunting started men took over (men are better at it) and since women wet to second plan. If women were to be equal, then why does patriarchy exist? Why prophets are male? Why can't womeb take over and are just allowed to be equal through positive discrimination? I am sorry, I don't think men are equal to women. They can't be just different. Men are more logical and womeb more emotional. A fact. You can relate to it in everyday life. Of course it doesn't mean men are cold and square. Women are simply better at forgiving and zakat.
-
I am just wondering, farati, is it a long time wince you came to earth from. Your planet must be very far. I can't just recognize those weird beings you are taling about.
When you say men are rational you surely are no speaking about Earth men.
So really, I am very interested in men fromyour planet, they seem like really surprising men.
As to animals, are ants inyour planet so different from here?
Welcome to planet earth, I hope you acapt soon.
Salaam
-
......
Let us face it. Women are more emotion orientated while men are more logical,
thus, we have two women instead of one man.
If a woman feels sorry for a ''heartbreaking'' testimony of a criminal,
the second (maybe more logical) woman can remind her to be more focused.
It does not mean that women can't reason or use logic or are stupid.
it simply means that in court decisions as witnesses, men are simply better.......
If women were to be equal, then why does patriarchy exist? Why prophets are male?
......
Men are more logical and women more emotional. A fact. You can relate to it in everyday life.Salaam/Peace Farati,
I may fundamentally and totally disagree with you, my dear Friend,
because I think your such assumptions and conclusions above may solely be stemming from some
regional "traditional/cultural" understanding,
they are not based in Universal (QURANIC) Religion here (=21/107), and not supported by Science, at all.Yes, "emotion" (=i.e. empathy, mercy and compassion) generally can be a more intense feeling in Women,
but it is not something that would consequentially block or hinder their "sound logic and judgment," at all,so due to the clear Commandments and perfect Teaching of AL-LAH in Quran Testament,
I strongly believe that
Women and Men are "equally" logical Beings, first of all,
therefore both of them can perfectly be a Witness, equally, in all judiciary issues,
(*I have already presented the most clear QURANIC/Scientific/Mathematic Evidences in this regard
in my previous posts above)
and I think both of them can thus also be a perfect Judge, equally, in all issues,===============
71- And the believing males and the believing females, they are allies to one another.They --equally-- advocate the right-recognized-good (=al-maroof)
and prohibit the wrong-refuted-evil (=al-munkar),(*thus Men's and Women's judiciary understanding and judging (=i.e. advocating or prohibiting) capabilities therein
must be "equal" to be able to rightfully do this above, first of all)and they --equally-- observe the Contact-Prayer (=i.e. Salaat),
(*thus Men and Women are "equally" (=i.e. same number of times & rakaahs) responsible and capable
to observe their regular Contact-Prayers everyday)and they --equally-- render the Purifying-Dues (=i.e. Zakaat),
(*thus Men and Women are "equally" (=i.e. same percentage) responsible and capable
to render their regular Purifying-Dues everytime)and (thus) they obey AL-LAH and HIS Messenger. AL-LAH will have Mercy on them;
for AL-LAH is Mighty, Wise.QURAN TESTAMENT 9/71
And our Lord AL-LAH has already sent many Female/Woman "Messengers" in the past
because they were/are "equally" capable of receiving and understanding and delivering HIS Message
therein.
*Please, clearly see it in=QURAN TESTAMENT 16/43 = 21/7 now here
http//www.19covenant19.com/mucize_detay_id165.htmlYes, in physical/bodily respect, there may be clear differences in their --AL-LAH given-- capabilities (=men cannot
bring a new baby/human to this world and nurture them as efficiently as women do & women cannot run or lift up
heavy weight as efficiently as men do, etc.)
But these kind of physical/bodily differences in capabilities (=4/32) should never be used
to create "inequality" (=i.e. "conflict & war" between the genders, or/and among all humanity,
but they shall always be remembered to establish and maintain "equality" (=i.e. through "benevolence and helpfulness
to each other & peace" between the genders or/and among all humanity,by the Perfect Commandment of our Lord AL-LAH here,
from the very Beginning=QURAN TESTAMENT 4/32 = 49/13
Remain in peace/salaam.
Whatever I have said that may be perfectly Correct and Right is from AL-LAH,
and whatever I have said that may be essentially or partially mistaken or wrong
may only be from my own self (shortcomings forgetfulness, hastiness, etc.) (=34/50) -
I am just wondering, farati, is it a long time wince you came to earth from. Your planet must be very far. I can't just recognize those weird beings you are taling about.
When you say men are rational you surely are no speaking about Earth men.
So really, I am very interested in men fromyour planet, they seem like really surprising men.
As to animals, are ants inyour planet so different from here?
Welcome to planet earth, I hope you acapt soon.
Salaam
I don't think you understand the evolutionary principle of genders.
-
No, dear, I do not understand anything, but even without understanding it, I can see masculine vanity flying all over in your posts and your blindeness to reality which you replace with seudo-scientifical mumbo jumbo.
You hunters poster is really very cinematographical, only an indiot like me would not be convinced of how so very scientifical how very evolutionnary that passage is.
But on the other hand, as to this thread, your post does not say a thing, you have not brought up from qur'an anything at all, just plain scientifical pretending.
I am afraid your problem with me is not that I do not understand something but that I do understnd too well.
Males are the very best and have the very best roles picked and women are equal but they have these other roles as idiots that are so very useful for the preting males, too much work and too little acknowledgement. Yes, I do understand too well.
You should tell your mothers and your daughters that they are lousy witnesses and that you would never pick them up for that unless you did not find a real person who knows how to be a witness even if your life was in it. Do tell them, so that they do not live in a make believe world but come bck to the real world, where some males feel so entitled to their picked and chosen roles nd find it so nice that women have roles that come in handy for the superior males.
Salaam
-
No, dear, I do not understand anything, but even without understanding it, I can see masculine vanity flying all over in your posts and your blindeness to reality which you replace with seudo-scientifical mumbo jumbo.
You hunters poster is really very cinematographical, only an indiot like me would not be convinced of how so very scientifical how very evolutionnary that passage is.
But on the other hand, as to this thread, your post does not say a thing, you have not brought up from qur'an anything at all, just plain scientifical pretending.
I am afraid your problem with me is not that I do not understand something but that I do understnd too well.
Males are the very best and have the very best roles picked and women are equal but they have these other roles as idiots that are so very useful for the preting males, too much work and too little acknowledgement. Yes, I do understand too well.
You should tell your mothers and your daughters that they are lousy witnesses and that you would never pick them up for that unless you did not find a real person who knows how to be a witness even if your life was in it. Do tell them, so that they do not live in a make believe world but come bck to the real world, where some males feel so entitled to their picked and chosen roles nd find it so nice that women have roles that come in handy for the superior males.
Salaam
I wasn't trying to offend you or any one. If I did I am sorry. I was just stating what was researched and confirmed.
-
Men and women are all over the place, one does not need any paper to see what persons do, of whatever sex, it is not anything secret or that needs a laboratory. you can see that there are men who are stupid just as there may be women who are stupid, men that are reliably just as women that are reliable and indeed that is what the Qur'an confirms, and regrding reliability of witnesses, Las Day has brought enough proofs FROM THE QUR'AN, not from any seudoscientifical paper with nothing to back its statements except conjecture alien to real observation of human beings.
But I guess the Qur'an is nto good enough for thosw who want at any cost to have some edge over others.
Salaam