Quran and Pedophilia
-
peace quranflea,
Note your baseless claims/assumptions (bold and red)
As I stated before, for girl who doesn't yet reach maturity age can be married by her guardian that in most cases is her father.
What I bold at verse below is guardian of the woman. Relevance of guardian in this case of course because the woman hasn't reach age of maturity (or in some cases because she has weak understanding).
And if you divorce them before you have touched them, and you have already appointed for them a marriage-portion, then one-half of what you have appointed, unless it be they make remission, or he makes remission in whose hand is the knot of marriage; yet that you should remit is nearer to godfearing. Forget not to be bountiful one towards another. Surely God sees the things you do. Q 2237
You can also read in the Quran a story when Musa's father in law married his daughter to Musa. From the narration of the story we know that the bond is just made between them two.
He said, 'I desire to marry thee to one of these my two daughters, on condition that thou hirest thyself to me for eight years. If thou completest ten, that shall be of thy own accord; I do not desire to' press hard 'upon thee. Thou shalt assuredly find me, if God wills, one of the righteous.' Q 2827
See what Nun pointed out also.
Compare your above interpretation to the irrefutable evidenced conclusion of
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htmThe only good thing about your post is it perfectly demonstrates the baseless claims/assumptions (and at best, indirect reasoning) one has to make in order to justify such a view.
Me? I prefer solid reasoning/evidence.
-
As I stated before, for girl who doesn't yet reach maturity age can be married by her guardian that in most cases is her father.
What I bold at verse below is guardian of the woman. Relevance of guardian in this case of course because the woman hasn't reach age of maturity (or in some cases because she has weak understanding).
And if you divorce them before you have touched them, and you have already appointed for them a marriage-portion, then one-half of what you have appointed, unless it be they make remission, or he makes remission in whose hand is the knot of marriage; yet that you should remit is nearer to godfearing. Forget not to be bountiful one towards another. Surely God sees the things you do. Q 2237
You can also read in the Quran a story when Musa's father in law married his daughter to Musa. From the narration of the story we know that the bond is just made between them two.
He said, 'I desire to marry thee to one of these my two daughters, on condition that thou hirest thyself to me for eight years. If thou completest ten, that shall be of thy own accord; I do not desire to' press hard 'upon thee. Thou shalt assuredly find me, if God wills, one of the righteous.' Q 2827
In conclusion, maturity is not an absolute condition for girl to marry. Therefore, there is no prohibition to marry immature girl according to the Quran per se.
I have a genuine question. I hope you don't mind. Are you here to troll Quran followers? It seems you joined this place somewhere around 2013, but you are not studying the Book. I certainly haven't seen any Quran followers who live by it skipping contemplation to stick to the sectarians' interpreted verses.
-
They were women of marriageable age not underage girls
I don't think that word "mar'at" itself indicating that the female is in marriageable age or not. Anyway, my point by quoted verse 2827 and also 2237 was to show that there are two possible person who will act as party of marriage contract on female side, i.e. the woman itself, or her guardian (wali).
46 and test ye of the bereaved until when attained they of the marriage so if perceive you from them right way of/rational so deliver ye of to them wealth theirs and not thou eat/consume ye it wastefully and hastily of lest/that grow up they of and who be ample of so should refrain and who be poor of so let eat/consume in the fair manner so when deliver you to them wealth theirs so witnesses ye of upon them and sufficient in/by the god reckoner of
46 indicates that Quran recognize marriageable age which merely a social concept. God didn't create it, He only show us that He know there is such concept in society. As I stated before, determining the minimum age of marry is just common in most societies/countries. Our common sense agree that marriage is not for too low age person, thus its requirement need to be regulated.
However, if let's say a society believes that the lowest age for a girl to marry is 13, then when a man marries a 12 y/o girl through her father, he and the girl father are broke social consensus (or maybe state law), but we can't say that they broke Quran 46. It's just unrelated. God didn't state that one who under certain age is forbidden from marriage in that verse, even the "marriageable age" itself is not His creation, it's just a social concept!
621 and whom more unjust than whom has fabricated about the god lie of or deny in signs his surely he not succeeds the wrongdoing
If you impose saying that God prohibit girl under certain age for marry, which in fact there is no verse that solidly supports such opinion, therefore the verse above is for you.
According to you the woman's / girl's agreement is not needed either.... We have superior men's who will look after our lives and destinies. And if you are a little girls, what can I say? You can perfectly know by then if you want someone for marriage or not...
So lucky you are, men/boys, you have a Quran full of rights only for yourselves giveup
Woman consent is needed when she act as party in the marriage contract. But when her father or her guardian (wali) who act as party in the marriage contract (because she hasn't reach her adulthood) then it is her father/guardian consent that is legally needed. That is just simple legal thought. Nevertheless, a wise father/guardian surely will figure out whether his daughter agree with his plan or not.
Actually it's not about gender, but about involving immature person in a contract. The same apply in case of a 19 y/o girl and 7 y/o girl making legal contract to be a movie star. The first one will signed the contract by herself, and for the second one it is her father/guardian who will signed the contract.
Whaaaaaaaaaaat o
There is not an ?age for marriage? in Quran?
Maybe Quran wants you to use COMMON SENSE. brickwall
The following are from QURAN
If there is an age for asking permission in these cases, why there is not an age for marriage? Is marriage less serious?
What maybe will make you jump out of your seat is there is no prohibition to smoke next to nuclear reactor in Quran! rotfl
It's so easy to pick example of some issues out there that is more serious than some of what is written in Quran. Please don't think like that anymore. God rules on His book whatever He want to rule, not whatever we might think important.
No guardian of any woman, woman not child, can arrange a marriage without her consent. No man can marry a woman without her consent. It is upon him to make sure that she consents. And in the aya you quoted where does it say that it is her guardian? It does no say that. He may merely be an attorney or some other commissionned. And even if he is a guardan he cannot contrat a marriage for the woman without her consent.
See my answer above.
-
I see some people here still trapped in error way of thinking which I think should be eliminated completely when we choose to become a "Quran only" muslim.
Imagine a conversation between a non-muslim with a muslim like this
Non-muslim Do we allow to give coke to a baby according to Quran?
Muslim I don't find specific verse about that
Non-muslim OMG! so muslims are allowed to give coke to they baby? how can Quran doesn't forbid such dangerous practice? We know it can harm a baby badly right? Quran is so evil!
Muslim (in his mind) It so awful! it's a shame! There should be a verse that ban such thing. I have to find one! or... maybe I can force a verse as if it support the opinion of not letting a baby drink coke.You can find error way of thinking on conversation above right? You may change "give coke to a baby" with "texting while driving" etc, etc. The same error way of thinking seems happened here hmm
Ladies and gentlemen, you don't need verse of Quran to claim that something is wrong
Maybe some of us react defensively regarding pedophilia issue because this issue is often used to attack Islam by saying that prophet Muhammad did it. For me pedophilia is unwise practice and for some extent could be banned. If one ask my opinion regarding story about prophet Muhammad I will simply answer that I can't comment on it because (hi)story is easy to fabricated.
Peace peace
-
.........
Muslim (in his mind) It so awful! it's a shame! There should be a verse that ban such thing. I have to find one! or... maybe I can force a verse as if it support the opinion of not letting a baby drink coke.i agree with you , flea
As on today i am yet to find a single direct hadith to support child marriage except in tafsirs .in 2009 ,i had the same feeling ,when i went to the salafi scholars ,they pursued me that there is a provision in Islam to marry as well as divorce a child before puberty.of course they roped in the life of prophet into their argument .the only analogy that salafis give is the life of the prophet .any hadith will never get its weightage unless it is attributed to our prophet .practically speaking , child marriage was very common around world till 20th century .when child marriage was acceptable in the society how can we ignore the laws related to it .Quran is a book which suits all ages .if missionaries wants to defame Islam with this issue , we cannot get ashamed and settle down in a apologetic manner .
-
I see some people here still trapped in error way of thinking which I think should be eliminated completely when we choose to become a "Quran only" muslim.
Imagine a conversation between a non-muslim with a muslim like this
Non-muslim Do we allow to give coke to a baby according to Quran?
Muslim I don't find specific verse about that
Non-muslim OMG! so muslims are allowed to give coke to they baby? how can Quran doesn't forbid such dangerous practice? We know it can harm a baby badly right? Quran is so evil!
Muslim (in his mind) It so awful! it's a shame! There should be a verse that ban such thing. I have to find one! or... maybe I can force a verse as if it support the opinion of not letting a baby drink coke.You can find error way of thinking on conversation above right? You may change "give coke to a baby" with "texting while driving" etc, etc. The same error way of thinking seems happened here hmm
Ladies and gentlemen, you don't need verse of Quran to claim that something is wrong
Maybe some of us react defensively regarding pedophilia issue because this issue is often used to attack Islam by saying that prophet Muhammad did it. For me pedophilia is unwise practice and for some extent could be banned. If one ask my opinion regarding story about prophet Muhammad I will simply answer that I can't comment on it because (hi)story is easy to fabricated.
Peace peace
If from these 2 verses it's not clear to people that pedophilia is forbidden in the book then they have a different quran than the one I have.
-
i agree with you , flea
As on today i am yet to find a single direct hadith to support child marriage except in tafsirs .in 2009 ,i had the same feeling ,when i went to the salafi scholars ,they pursued me that there is a provision in Islam to marry as well as divorce a child before puberty.of course they roped in the life of prophet into their argument .the only analogy that salafis give is the life of the prophet .any hadith will never get its weightage unless it is attributed to our prophet .practically speaking , child marriage was very common around world till 20th century .when child marriage was acceptable in the society how can we ignore the laws related to it .Quran is a book which suits all ages .if missionaries wants to defame Islam with this issue , we cannot get ashamed and settle down in a apologetic manner .
In old times you were also not considered a child for as long as today.
-
In old times you were also not considered a child for as long as today.
Did you just let your instincts take control of you?! giveup
On a serious note, let's calm down peace
Salam
-
Woman consent is needed when she act as party in the marriage contract. But when her father or her guardian (wali) who act as party in the marriage contract (because she hasn't reach her adulthood) then it is her father/guardian consent that is legally needed. That is just simple legal thought. Nevertheless, a wise father/guardian surely will figure out whether his daughter agree with his plan or not.
Actually it's not about gender, but about involving immature person in a contract. The same apply in case of a 19 y/o girl and 7 y/o girl making legal contract to be a movie star. The first one will signed the contract by herself, and for the second one it is her father/guardian who will signed the contract.
What maybe will make you jump out of your seat is there is no prohibition to smoke next to nuclear reactor in Quran! rotfl
It's so easy to pick example of some issues out there that is more serious than some of what is written in Quran. Please don't think like that anymore. God rules on His book whatever He want to rule, not whatever we might think important.
According to you a girl who has not menstruated yet and can't go to the grocery because she has not even the skills to do the correct mathematics can get married because she can decide on that matter. And in case she is inmature someone (a male who can get sure of her consent) will be mature enough to decide for her and about her life. Because you know? How do you understand if a girl non already menstruating wants to get married to a specific individual? Asking her? brickwall And this is all God has to say about and whoever thinks otherwise is forcing interpretations. No, that is not my God and surely that is not the book I am reading.
God is the Merciful, the Forgiver, the Comprehensive. He is the rahmani and the Lord of human kind, and it is people with your thinking and reading that created billions of unhappy subjugated sisters's souls condemned to be stoned to death one day just because they dared to take their lives in their hands. Paradise is full of those sisters
So no, I am not going to jump out of my seat, because you are not even worthy the jumping. Spread oppression somewhere else.
I have a genuine question. I hope you don't mind. Are you here to troll Quran followers? It seems you joined this place somewhere around 2013, but you are not studying the Book. I certainly haven't seen any Quran followers who live by it skipping contemplation to stick to the sectarians' interpreted verses.
welcome
-
The consent of the woman is always needed and she always acts as a party. That a guardin or whatever figment of western law is present in qur'an is a falsehood, there is no such a thing. nd a woman to marry must be acknowledged as capable of consent. Anything else is invention and not Qur'an.
Salaam
-
ahhh....this is deplorable...many obviously have no idea of other people's lives.
If you go to many villages, in many countries, you'll see that a young male or female becomes a productive individual in his or her family at an early age. Depending on his/her family's needs, boys and girls start to work. There are no schools in such places, and no playgrounds, no shopping malls etc... so these people have a different view of life. Everyday they struggle and work hard for a piece of bread. the young boys and girls work in farms or any other simplistic job opportunity (that's all there is anyways) but some of them get to travel to cities, alone. very brave kids travelling alone at a young age to a city for a job opportunity, girls usually work as maids in houses and boys work at stores. Ironically the abuse begin only at the city, where the employer usually gets too violent or even sexual.
Back to the village now, when someone comes to the family and wants to take their 12 years old full-time worker country-traveler little girl, they see it as an opportunity of someone helping them with their living and with the living and well being of their daughter, while also growing their family, so they make a huge family meeting to get to know the family they are going to relate with, is it a respectable one, is it a financially capable one, so in most cases the marriage happens between people of the tribe since parents know each other and trust each other. What does the 12 years old full-time worker country-traveler little girl have to say about this ? Nothing, she steps into this as she stepped in every situation she's been in life, with her head low and doing whatever it takes to help her family. Such event are met by these families with great enthusiasm, they make the biggest celebration of their lives at such events.
Very brave people I'd say, very humble people too, they live with less and are content with it. They are uneducated but they have their way of living.
That's what you call , in one word, "pedophilia".
Now in the other hand you have 12 years old girls from modern countries losing their virginity to their boyfriends at their school's bathrooms while living one hell of a comfy life.
Now I don't defend child marriage at all, but I do realize the struggle of such people and their way of living, make sure you realize it too. And if you can help them to live a more comfy life like yours. Maybe then they'll have the luxury to live life before having to marry, just like you did.
P.S Governments in such countries are building schools and playgrounds and building roads to open up these villages to the cities and to "freedom", while also encouraging the parents to send their kids to school instead.
-
P.S Governments in such countries are building schools and playgrounds and building roads to open up these villages to the cities and to "freedom", while also encouraging the parents to send their kids to school instead.
Why is freedom in quotation marks?
-
ahhh....this is deplorable...many obviously have no idea of other people's lives.
If you go to many villages, in many countries, you'll see that a young male or female becomes a productive individual in his or her family at an early age. Depending on his/her family's needs, boys and girls abuse begin only at the city, where the employer usually gets tont or even sexual.
I did not know that just because other people now or in older times did something, that something is accepted / acceptable. What a nice criterio! Let's go back to slavery or let's join politheism! We found our fathers/ neiborgs doing it, right?
(Yes, sarcasm)
The point is to stand for the children of this world, not just accept the cultural Oppresion. Not to accept child marrage is even a good solution for their lives!!!
And yes, child abusers are a kind of transcultural evil, no culture has the copyright.
-
Did you read what I wrote ? Or did the idea of "not because they do it that it's acceptable" crossed your mind so you based your reply on it ? Also the quote of me you provided is messed up, one sentence from the beginning, one sentence from the end and a horrible link between the two.
They didn't do anything, my friend. Life put them in such situation, in which a young male or female are believed to be a productive individuals in their families at a young age. They do what they have to do. And unless you are gonna help them to live a luxurious life to change it, calling their way of life "pedophilia" is a fuckin insult to these humble hard working people that DO NOT KNOW any criteria of living beside the one of being able to feed yourself and your family in dignity and while preserving your values. That is the definition of a hard working person. They didn't choose that, do you get it ?
Is it acceptable that they live a miserable life like that ? Of course no,but do they still live their life like that ? Yes they do, and calling it "pedophilia" and then linking it to "quran" and then mixing everything with your modern-society garbage criteria doesn't help it either.
Please reread the story I provided.
Do you see any "philia" in it ? Then where is "pedophilia" in it ? It is misery. Those who came up with "pedophilia" meant the sexual desire to children, in a luxurious life style, of course, not the fact that some children are considered adult in some societies, and therefore live a shitty childhood to survive but they're still content with it because they don't perceive childhood as you perceive it. -
ahhh....this is deplorable...many obviously have no idea of other people's lives.
I have an idea, I grew up in such a society and have even family members who engaged in such sick nonsense.
If you go to many villages, in many countries, you'll see that a young male or female becomes a productive individual in his or her family at an early age. Depending on his/her family's needs, boys and girls start to work. There are no schools in such places, and no playgrounds, no shopping malls etc... so these people have a different view of life. Everyday they struggle and work hard for a piece of bread. the young boys and girls work in farms or any other simplistic job opportunity (that's all there is anyways) but some of them get to travel to cities, alone. very brave kids travelling alone at a young age to a city for a job opportunity, girls usually work as maids in houses and boys work at stores. Ironically the abuse begin only at the city, where the employer usually gets too violent or even sexual.
ok, so?
Back to the village now, when someone comes to the family and wants to take their 12 years old full-time worker country-traveler little girl, they see it as an opportunity of someone helping them with their living and with the living and well being of their daughter, while also growing their family, so they make a huge family meeting to get to know the family they are going to relate with, is it a respectable one, is it a financially capable one, so in most cases the marriage happens between people of the tribe since parents know each other and trust each other. What does the 12 years old full-time worker country-traveler little girl have to say about this ? Nothing, she steps into this as she stepped in every situation she's been in life, with her head low and doing whatever it takes to help her family. Such event are met by these families with great enthusiasm, they make the biggest celebration of their lives at such events.
Very brave people I'd say, very humble people too, they live with less and are content with it. They are uneducated but they have their way of living.
Very brave and humble people to sell their daughter for their their own luxery, and a very brave and humble person to marry a child.
btw what do you think happens with the girl when she is 35 with six kids and a deceased husband? Do you think she has any chance to remarry?What about you? When you were 12, would you have liked to marry a 50 years old woman?
That's what you call , in one word, "pedophilia".
Yes, pedophilia is when a grown up has a sexual relationship with a child, no matter what fairy tale you try to cover it.
Now in the other hand you have 12 years old girls from modern countries losing their virginity to their boyfriends at their school's bathrooms while living one hell of a comfy life.
apples and oranges
Now I don't defend child marriage at all, but I do realize the struggle of such people and their way of living, make sure you realize it too. And if you can help them to live a more comfy life like yours. Maybe then they'll have the luxury to live life before having to marry, just like you did.
selling their daughter is not the solution
-
Did you read what I wrote ? Or did the idea of "not because they do it that it's acceptable" crossed your mind so you based your reply on it ? Also the quote of me you provided is messed up, one sentence from the beginning, one sentence from the end and a horrible link between the two.
I read alm of it and i reject all of it
They didn't do anything, my friend. Life put them in such situation, in which a young male or female are believed to be a productive individuals in their families at a young age. They do what they have to do. And unless you are gonna help them to live a luxurious life to change it, calling their way of life "pedophilia" is a fuckin insult to these humble hard working people that DO NOT KNOW any criteria of living beside the one of being able to feed yourself and your family in dignity and while preserving your values. That is the definition of a hard working person. They didn't choose that, do you get it ?
No one is blaming the child involved, they are innocent. But in case there is an adult, yes you can consider i insult that adult. If sending your little gorl to marriage to get rid of her expenses or to give her a better life is "hard working people", i just will never agree with that definnition.
Is it acceptable that they live a miserable life like that ? Of course no,but do they still live their life like that ? Yes they do, and calling it "pedophilia" and then linking it to "quran" and then mixing everything with your modern-society garbage criteria doesn't help it either.
It is paedophilia or a kind of child selling and Quran discourages it. The fact that that is their only way in life (which is not) is just an excuse, primitive excuse.
Please reread the story I provided.
Do you see any "philia" in it ? Then where is "pedophilia" in it ? It is misery. Those who came up with "pedophilia" meant the sexual desire to children, not the fact that some children are considered adult in some societies, and therefore live a shitty childhood but they're still content with it because they don't perceive childhood as you perceive it. Help them maybe ?Childhood is childhood. There are not different kinds of childhood according to different cultures. The story you provide is, for me, nothing but an excuse based on citcumstances/ situations.
Abraham found a society before him too, and he stood up for the right, no matter ehat others said and the others said "we just use to live like this".
Sorry bro, i will never agree not even with the misery/ poverty criteria. God will provide those who are patient and do right. And protecting a child is always Right, no excuses.
-
ahhh....this is deplorable...many obviously have no idea of other people's lives.
Back to the village now, when someone comes to the family and wants to take their 12 years old full-time worker country-traveler little girl, they see it as an opportunity of someone helping them with their living and with the living and well being of their daughter, while also growing their family, so they make a huge family meeting to get to know the family they are going to relate with, is it a respectable one, is it a financially capable one, so in most cases the marriage happens between people of the tribe since parents know each other and trust each other. What does the 12 years old full-time worker country-traveler little girl have to say about this ? Nothing, she steps into this as she stepped in every situation she's been in life, with her head low and doing whatever it takes to help her family. Such event are met by these families with great enthusiasm, they make the biggest celebration of their lives at such events.
Very brave people I'd say, very humble people too, they live with less and are content with it. They are uneducated but they have their way of living.
That's what you call , in one word, "pedophilia".
Now in the other hand you have 12 years old girls from modern countries losing their virginity to their boyfriends at their school's bathrooms while living one hell of a comfy life.
Peace -- situation with 12 year old girls in modern countries is different topic nothing to do with offering underage girls into marriage and there are many communities of poor people in villages (I came from one in my youth) and if someone came asking for a girl in my family that was of marriageable age would kindly thank them and leave it up to the girl.
On the other-hand, if someone came asking for an underage girl in my family would happily break his ribs and bust his head along with his entourage/family for suggesting it.
I don't think that word "mar'at" itself indicating that the female is in marriageable age or not.
Perhaps study the words being used
411 instructs you the god in offspring yours lildhakari/to the male (any age) similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (any age) so if are (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (i.e. daughters any age) over ith'natayni/two so for them third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left
2282 ? so if not being dual rajulayni/menfolk two (adult) so man wa-im'ra-atni/and women two (adult)
335 when said (f) im'ra-atu/woman (adult) imran
340 ? and surely has reached me the oldness wa-im'ra-at/and woman mine (adult) barren ?
783 ? im'ra-atahu/woman his ?
1171 wa-im'ra-atuhu/and woman his ?
1181 ? im'ra-ataka/woman your ?
1221 and said the one of purchased him from mi'ra li-im'ra-atihi/to woman his1230 and said nis'watun (women adult (f/p) the community) in the town im'ra-atu/woman the mighty sought to seduce she young man hers about soul his/himself hence infatuated her love surely we surely we see her in misguidance clear
1250 ? l-nis'wati/the women (f/p) ?
1251 ? said (f) im'ra-atu/woman ?
1560 ? im'ra-atahu/woman his
195 ? and be she im'ra-at/woman mine barren of
198 ? and be she im'ra-at/woman mine barren of
2757 ? amrat-hu/woman his
289 and said she im'ra-atu/woman firaun ?
2823 ? im'ra-atayni/women two
2932 ? im'ra-atahu/woman his
2933 ? im'ra-ataka/woman your
5129 ? im'ra-atuhu/woman his
6610 ? im'ra-ata/woman noah wa-im'ra-ata/and woman lot
6611 ? im'ra-ata/woman firaun
1114 wa-im'ra-atuhu/and woman hisAnyway, my point by quoted verse 2827 and also 2237 was to show that there are two possible person who will act as party of marriage contract on female side, i.e. the woman itself, or her guardian (wali).
Again, study the words being used
43 ? so sponsor marriage ye of
425 ? so sponsor marry ye them by permission family theirs
2432 and sponsor marriage ye of?
2827 said surely I want that sponsor marriage you ?2235 ? the marriage ?
2237 ? the marriage ?Quran 46. It's just unrelated. God didn't state that one who under certain age is forbidden from marriage in that verse, even the "marriageable age" itself is not His creation, it's just a social concept!
No it clearly states
46 and test ye of the bereaved until when attained they of the marriage so if perceive you from them right way of/rational so deliver ye of to them wealth theirs...
Hence according to you, it?s OK to give in marriage 6 or 9 year old little girls or even a 2 year old baby without any consent who have not even started menstruating yet or attained maturity/rational to a pedophile who offers money. nope
-
I see some people here still trapped in error way of thinking which I think should be eliminated completely when we choose to become a "Quran only" muslim.
Imagine a conversation between a non-muslim with a muslim like this
Non-muslim Do we allow to give coke to a baby according to Quran?
Muslim I don't find specific verse about that
Non-muslim OMG! so muslims are allowed to give coke to they baby? how can Quran doesn't forbid such dangerous practice? We know it can harm a baby badly right? Quran is so evil!
Muslim (in his mind) It so awful! it's a shame! There should be a verse that ban such thing. I have to find one! or... maybe I can force a verse as if it support the opinion of not letting a baby drink coke.You can find error way of thinking on conversation above right? You may change "give coke to a baby" with "texting while driving" etc, etc. The same error way of thinking seems happened here hmm
Ladies and gentlemen, you don't need verse of Quran to claim that something is wrong )
Maybe some of us react defensively regarding pedophilia issue because this issue is often used to attack Islam by saying that prophet Muhammad did it. For me pedophilia is unwise practice and for some extent could be banned. If one ask my opinion regarding story about prophet Muhammad I will simply answer that I can't comment on it because (hi)story is easy to fabricated.
Peace peace
You didn't reply to my earlier post. That's okay. But I would really love to see what would be your answers to
But if you want to replace one wife with another and you have given one of them a great amount , do not take from it anything. Would you take it in injustice and manifest sin? And how could you take it while you have gone in unto each other and they have taken from you a solemn covenant? 420-21
How does Allah view marriage covenant?
And when you divorce women and they have fulfilled their term, do not prevent them from remarrying their husbands if they agree among themselves on an acceptable basis. That is instructed to whoever of you believes in Allah and the Last Day. That is better for you and purer, and Allah knows and you know not. 2232
Why won't Allah allow other people's (lets' say parents) decision in the above verse?
O you who believe! Not (is) lawful for you that you inherit the women (by) force. And not you constraint them so that you may take a part (of) what you have given them except that they commit immorality open. And live with them in kindness. But if you dislike them, then perhaps that you dislike a thing and Allah placed in it much good. 419
Can a child consent to marriage? If her parents are to do everything without caring about what she wants are they helping the guy force marriage onto her?
How while, if they gain dominance over you they do not regard (the ties) with you (of) kinship and not covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths but refuse, their hearts and most of them (are) defiantly disobedient.98
Can a child give consent right from the heart or should parents? consent be pushed onto the her, violating 419 ?
O mankind! If you are in doubt about the Resurrection, then indeed, We created you from dust, then from a semen-drop then from a clinging substance then from an embryonic lump, formed and unformed, that We may make clear to you. And We cause to remain in the wombs what We will for a term appointed, then We bring you out (as) a child, that you may reach maturity. And among you (is he) who dies, and among you (is he) who is returned to the most abject age, so that not he knows, after having known, anything. And you see the earth barren then when We send down on it water, it gets stirred and it swells and grows of every kind beautiful. 225
Why doesn?t Allah take a kid as mature in the verse?
And what is with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper?" 475
Why didn't Allah say just "men and women" in the above verse if women = children in the Quran?
Thanks
If you go to many villages, in many countries, you'll see that a young male or female becomes a productive individual in his or her family at an early age. Depending on his/her family's needs, boys and girls start to work. There are no schools in such places, and no playgrounds, no shopping malls etc... so these people have a different view of life. Everyday they struggle and work hard for a piece of bread. the young boys and girls work in farms or any other simplistic job opportunity (that's all there is anyways) but some of them get to travel to cities, alone. very brave kids travelling alone at a young age to a city for a job opportunity, girls usually work as maids in houses and boys work at stores. Ironically the abuse begin only at the city, where the employer usually gets too violent or even sexual.
Back to the village now, when someone comes to the family and wants to take their 12 years old full-time worker country-traveler little girl, they see it as an opportunity of someone helping them with their living and with the living and well being of their daughter, while also growing their family, so they make a huge family meeting to get to know the family they are going to relate with, is it a respectable one, is it a financially capable one, so in most cases the marriage happens between people of the tribe since parents know each other and trust each other. What does the 12 years old full-time worker country-traveler little girl have to say about this ? Nothing, she steps into this as she stepped in every situation she's been in life, with her head low and doing whatever it takes to help her family. Such event are met by these families with great enthusiasm, they make the biggest celebration of their lives at such events.
How about having a conversation with such children? Mentally, they do not see labor with rose colored glasses. And just as Bender said, it puts their future at stake.
Humans' civilization began from village. The more we learned the more we improved. That's how towns and cities came. It is our duty help those parents in such a way that they don't have to send their kids to work. As for the western 12 year old, if her partner gets caught law won't spare him
California Penal Code Section 261.5 state(a) Unlawful sexual intercourse is an act of sexual
intercourse accomplished with a person who is not the spouse of the
perpetrator, if the person is a minor. For the purposes of this
section, a ?minor? is a person under the age of 18 years and an
?adult? is a person who is at least 18 years of age.Also known as Statutory Rape laws, it takes place when a person engages in sexual intercourse with a person under 18 also known as unlawful sex with a minor and that they were not married at the time.
This particular statute can either be filed as a felony or misdemeanor offense by the prosecution and there is no need of ?force? being shown in this offense. The age differences between the perpetrator and the victim also plays a significant factor as to the gravity and seriousness of the offense.
If the age difference between the perpetrator and the victim is no more than 3 years difference, it most likely will be filed as a misdemeanor by the prosecution. Misdemeanors can be punishable by up to one year in jail, informal probation and up to $1000 in fines whereas a felony offense is far more serious and is punishable by state imprisonment.https//www.wklaw.com/criminal-act-of-having-sex-with-a-minor/
-
The female's breasts should probably have finished growing before mating becomes viable. The female should have a body ready for all phases of pregnancy so that it will not be damaged by pregnancy and the baby hurt. I would say physically no younger than 15.
Signs of Puberty in Girls
Breasts and hips begin to grow.
Growth rate increases.
Pubic hair begins to appear, usually within 6 to 12 months after breast development starts.
Sexual organs increase in size (The uterus and vagina, as well as labia and clitoris.)The female reaches her adult height at about 15 years of age. She is fertile before that, but the body has not finished its growth cycle.
The female is of breeding age on average to her mid 40's. Giving birth to children is therefore not a hurry meaning she can well live into her 20's before reproduction and gain life experience. It is safer for the female to get her offspring before she gets closer to her menopause.
Pedophilia is a human concept and socially spread opinion, but it is exposing the young female to risks to impregnate her and making her pregnant. A younger female is very likely to get pains from intercourse, especially if the male is considerably older due to the difference in size development. There is a high risk of infection because of tissue damage.
Strictly from logic it is foolish to have that kind of relationship with her.
Be well
Amenuel
