What is the Purpose of Life?
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Peace Nonetheless.
Here are the verses numbers to ponder1966
The human being asks, "After I die, do I come back to life?"1967
Did the human being forget( does he not remember) that we created him before, and he was nothing?The ""Yadhkuru" , I translated as "see" in my post before, it should have been "Remember".
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Nonetheless.
Here are the verses numbers to ponder1966
The human being asks, "After I die, do I come back to life?"1967
Did the human being forget( does he not remember) that we created him before, and he was nothing?The ""Yadhkuru" , I translated as "see" in my post before, it should have been "Remember".
GOD bless you.
Peace.I believe you are reading to much into the two verses.
What I read in context is, the statement is addressed to individual human , i.e.
Don't you remember what is told in the Quran, you were created before this present time that you were created out of nothing. .
If Allah wanted to introduce the concept of 'reincarnation' into Islam, Allah would have made it a central issue. The overall context of the Quran do not support reincarnation.
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Peace Nonetheless.
Where did I mention reincarnation?Are you saying your next life is reincarnation?
Nothing to do with the reincarnation of a soul as different bodies in the same life!!!!!
This is about a soul living a first life that led to it being a human living this life that will lead him to the destination and new creation of the next life . The same soul
Or are you saying GOD s words are not carefully chosen in the verses I quoted?
One is saying we were "Amyatan" then created in this life. The other is saying we were "nothing-Lam Yakun Shayan-"before that and we were created a first time.
Does "Amwatan" and "Lam Yakun Shayan- nothing-" mean the same thing?
Now tells us your understanding of those verses if you disagree?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace hansolo.
MOF s logic has a bit of "arrogance" in it. GOD gave him his faculties and brain and now he is using it unfairly against others.
Is he saying he was "sinless" before?
What about animals? Does he know what kind of bad sin they committed to deserve this life?
In fact he has not got a clue about how GOD assigns the souls and how GOD chooses why and what He creates.
MOF is having wild guesses and he knows it.
As for his kind of reincarnation,does he really think one soul has multiple goes at this life in different bodies?
Does he read the Qoran he claims to believe in? Each soul has only one single go in this life!! No more.
GOD bless you.
PeaceDo you call me arrogant? In that case you call me arrogant merely for knowing things.
Have I said I was sinless before? I am trying to become sinless now, but that is a long path which not many people try to take because they do not understand its necessity.
Animals are spiritually lifeless beings and only exist as an environmental feature. Some call them to be of the world soul and that is a good description.
You say I have wild guesses and while you claim it you have wild guesses yourself, and you make false claims that I know something which is not true. There are no wild guesses in what I am writing.
I do have a clue how God assigns the souls, but I do not have insight into the running process and only know the system itself. A person is born and grows or diminishes their soul depending on their performance and this determines their rebirth condition. This is similar to the sectarian doctrine except they only give people only one chance and then they are immediately reborn in Hell or Heaven. Hell does however not exist as a punishment but this is a test environment and is this very location. You cannot go to where you already are. The matter is how many days you will be required to be here, if you even ever get out. With the attitude and disinformation in your possession it may be incredibly difficult.
It is the sectarian interpretation of Quran which says one has only one go in this life. I read Quran, but I read it with my own eyes.
And I also say one has one go at this life, you are not reborn in this life. When your body dies it will not return.
Anyways be well and hope you will ever see the world for what it is,
Amenuel -
And your kind of doctrine is so primitive it does not require much reflection to realize it does not hold water. I wrote here that if people are born into this world with all sorts of horrible mutations and in awkward conditions, situations and locations, then it is absolutely not fair if you say people only have one chance and some are born with greatly disadvantageous handicaps and are expected to be running their test of their lives. Many people have innate mental diseases virtually making normal functionality impossible.
Now is however their condition a consequence of past living, but if it was not then it would simply not make sense.
Include every living human in your equation and you shall see it cannot work. The parameters reason and logic will not permit you to make the equation.
It is you and clergymen including those who had their hands on Quran since it compilation who have shaped your fallible doctrine which you hold on to without reflecting on the whole picture.
Be well
Amenuel -
It is for that reason clever atheists will not believe in your god too. You cannot come with an intelligent explanation that people will accept.
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And I also say one has one go at this life, you are not reborn in this life. When your body dies it will not return.
Amenuel
Man of Faith, so You mean after we die, we as an individual perish, if one does not graduate so to speak? So even if we Do come back here, its not us anymore right? So yeah with this logic, indeed we die when we die (If we dont ascend into the next level). So one only keeps himself/herself if He/She graduates from this place? If so, The word "save yourself" gained a whole new meaning for me. I dont want to die.
Peace
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Peace Man Of Faith.
Please read my post properly. Quote where I called you arrogant.
If you mean I called your logic arrogant that is because you believe too much in your warped logic. .You keep going on about the sectarians,yet you are just as dangerous with your logic as they are with their interpretations.
Yes, so to you your logic and to me the clear Arabic Qoran.As for your clever Atheist,I am not their guardian. I just wonder how clever they are with all GOD s signs around them and inside their bodies?
Of course you will keep on talking and making all these deluded statement without a shred of evidence from Qoran and you claim your logic is superior tp everyone.
So of course I will call this logic arrogant.
However you are entitled to have your logic.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Nonetheless.
Where did I mention reincarnation?Are you saying your next life is reincarnation?
Nothing to do with the reincarnation of a soul as different bodies in the same life!!!!!
This is about a soul living a first life that led to it being a human living this life that will lead him to the destination and new creation of the next life . The same soul
Or are you saying GOD s words are not carefully chosen in the verses I quoted?
One is saying we were "Amyatan" then created in this life. The other is saying we were "nothing-Lam Yakun Shayan-"before that and we were created a first time.
Does "Amwatan" and "Lam Yakun Shayan- nothing-" mean the same thing?
Now tells us your understanding of those verses if you disagree?
GOD bless you.
Peace.From Wiki
Reincarnation is the philosophical or religious concept that an aspect of a living being starts a new life in a different physical body or form after each biological death. It is also called rebirth or transmigration, and is a part of the Sasra doctrine of cyclic existence.Reincarnation usually refer to many life cycles.
In your case you stated the same "soul" live in another life then died is reborn into a human being.
This is similar to reincarnation or rebirth albeit involving one cycle but how can you confirmed in your case there are no previous lives for that same soul?•
Pickthall's
327. Who made all things good which He created, and He began the creation of man from clay;
328. Then He made his seed from a draught of despised fluid ;
329. Then He fashioned him and breathed into him of His spirit ; and appointed for you hearing and sight and hearts. Small thanks give ye!•
According to the Quran, there is no mentioned of previous life and death of soul.
From 327-9 Allah breathed his spirit into lifeless thing to create a live human being.Or are you saying GOD's words are not carefully chosen in the verses I quoted?
Note "amwatan" from Miim-Waw-Ta has a range of meanings;• To die, to pass away from the earthly life, to be destitute or deprived of life, deprived of sensation, deprived of the intellectual faculty, to be still/quiet/motionless, to be calm/still, to sleep, lifeless, to be assuaged, dried up by the earth, to cease, wear out/be worn out, to be poor/reduced to poverty, abject/base/despicable/vile, disobedient or rebellious, lowly/humble/submissive, to be soft/loose/flabby/relaxed, lack spirit or life.
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In the context of 228 the most appropriate translation is 'lifeless'.
Thus God's words and its related intended meaning was carefully chosen.Does "Amwatan" and "Lam Yakun Shayan- nothing-" mean the same thing?
In the context of 228 they do not mean the same thing.
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Peace Nonetheless.
1-You have just demonstrated in your post that there is reincarnation according to Qoran if you say ,quote
Reincarnation usually refer to many life cyclesBecause according to Qoran we are going to have another life cycle?
2-If GOD puts someone to death this must mean they were alive before? So how do you explain this
4011
They will say, "Our Lord, you have put us to death twice,* and You gave us two lives; now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out?"According to you they only died once., contradicting 4011.
According to the verse there must have had a life before this one for them to be "Amwatan" =put to death= the first time?And of course there is " Wa Lakad Alimtumu AL-NASHATA Aloula Afala Tadhakkaroun?" GOD is reminding here that we had a first life before this one ,hence adding "Don t you remember"?
There fore what you say here (in your previous post) is not true,quote
According to the Quran, there is no mentioned of previous life and death of soul.There is a mention of a previous death of a soul,hence there must have been a previous life.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Peace Nonetheless.
1-You have just demonstrated in your post that there is reincarnation according to Qoran if you say ,quote
Reincarnation usually refer to many life cyclesBecause according to Qoran we are going to have another life cycle?
2-If GOD puts someone to death this must mean they were alive before? So how do you explain this
4011
They will say, "Our Lord, you have put us to death twice,* and You gave us two lives; now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out?"According to you they only died once., contradicting 4011.
According to the verse there must have had a life before this one for them to be "Amwatan" =put to death= the first time?And of course there is " Wa Lakad Alimtumu AL-NASHATA Aloula Afala Tadhakkaroun?" GOD is reminding here that we had a first life before this one ,hence adding "Don t you remember"?
There fore what you say here (in your previous post) is not true,quote
According to the Quran, there is no mentioned of previous life and death of soul.There is a mention of a previous death of a soul,hence there must have been a previous life.
GOD bless you.
PeaceNope there is no concept reincarnation within Islam.
This is supported by the point the life of a human being start off with God breathing God's spirit into a lifeless thing as in 329, with Adam, Isa in Mary's womb, ...Thus 4011 is overriden by the above critical verses and principles, therefore no reincarnation in Islam.
The two lives and two deaths cannot be taken too literally.
Many translators translated "amattan" as 'lifeless' that is once before birth and once when in tarrying after physical death and before Judgment Day.
The 'lifeless_ness' may be slightly different but nevertheless still without life until they are made alive again for Judgment.There are other alternative points to support the two deaths and two lives, but definitely there is no reincarnation.
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Peace Nonetheless.
I told you there is no reincarnation ,however you are digging a hole for yourself,allow me to clarify
1-You claimed reincarnation is having many ife cycles. Then I pointed out the contradiction about us having at least two different life cycles according to Qoran.
2- You claimed ,quote"Thus 4011 is overriden by the above critical verses and principles, therefore no reincarnation in Islam here I need to point out the contradiction in Qoran that nothing overrides/abrogates GOD s words.
3- I have not seen a single verse quoted by you that supports your argument . If something is "Amwatan" which you say it just means lifeless. Well what does lifeless mean? . How can you put something to death that did not exist if there was nothing there before?
You are just insisting on your wrong contradictory argument with all due respect. At least study the verses I gave you and all relevant verses of life/death/other life..etc and present your argument from the context of all the verses of Qoran?
I gave you my evidence of my argument using verses from Qoran, If you cannot do the same I suggest we leave it here and move on .
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace good logic,
You missed the finer point, note I stated
"Reincarnation usually refer to many life cycles."
In other cases, it can apply to two lives.
There is no contradiction.Thus as long as you maintain humans were dead before they were born, then that is associated with reincarnation to some degrees .
As I had stated some translators do use "lifeless" or in similar form, e.g.
• Umm Muhammad (Sahih International)
They will say, "Our Lord, You made us lifeless twice and gave us life twice, and we have confessed our sins. So is there to an exit any way?"Bilal Muhammad
They will say, ?Our Lord, twice have You made us without life, and twice have You given us life. Now have we recognized our sins, is there any way out??Syed Vickar Ahamed
They will say "Our Lord! Twice have You made us (when we were) without life, and twice You have given us Life! Now we have recognized our sins Then, is there any way to get out (of this)?"Abdel Haleem
They will say, ?Our Lord, twice You have caused us to be lifeless and twice You have brought us to life. Now we recognize our sins. Is there any way out??They shall say " O Allah, our Creator, twice did you deprive us of animate existence by death and twice did you bring us into being and caused us to exist, and now we confess our sins and confess to the charge, but is there a way out of this agony and torment? "
Yusuf Ali
They will say "Our Lord! twice hast Thou made us without life, and twice hast Thou given us Life! Now have we recognised our sins Is there any way out (of this)?"•
I agree with the above.
They avoided the term 'die' 'dead' to avoid veering to physical death before birth and mortality.
One can translate as 'die' or 'dead' twice, but one must be careful not to interpret there are two lives, i.e. one before birth. -
Peace Nonetheless.
1-Still when you say,quote Thus as long as you maintain humans were dead before they were born, then that is associated with reincarnation to some degrees .You know we will die before we get reborn(resurrected) in the next life! Now what do you call that? Two life cycles?
Where did I miss the point? You just repeated the same contradiction!2- You then add, Quote One can translate as 'die' or 'dead' twice, but one must be careful not to interpret there are two lives, i.e. one before birth.
You still have the problem of "Amattana" in 4011 means "You have put us to death". Now how can GOD put them to death the first time if they were nothing? They must have been alive!!!! Hence a first life
Read the verse again it does not say we were "Amwatan" like you claim it means lifeless?
Also you have the problem of the two lives in 40;11, it says "Ahyaytana" in the past tense which means they already had two lives before the standing in front of GODi.e they are talking to GOD at the beginning of the third life. Yes the third life which just started for them after the two life they had in the past.By all means believe any translation you wish to believe, the problem that is clearly pointed out to you in my posts will not go away.
I am saying, with Qoranic evidence(4011) that "Amattana" means "you have put us to death" cannot mean lifeless( non existing). It can only mean "life" before they were put to death.
And of course you know full well it cannot be "overridden" by any other verse ,since GOD s words are true and nothing can override/abrogate them.GOD bless you.
Peace. -
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By all means believe any translation you wish to believe, the problem that is clearly pointed out to you in my posts will not go away.
I am saying, with Qoranic evidence(4011) that "Amattana" means "you have put us to death" cannot mean lifeless( non existing). It can only mean "life" before they were put to death.
And of course you know full well it cannot be "overridden" by any other verse ,since GOD s words are true and nothing can override/abrogate them.GOD bless you.
Peace.Note I mentioned earlier;
Note "amwatan" from Miim-Waw-Ta has a range of meanings;
• To die,
to pass away from the earthly life,
to be destitute or deprived of life,
deprived of sensation,
deprived of the intellectual faculty,
to be still/quiet/motionless,
to be calm/still,
to sleep,
lifeless,
to be assuaged,
dried up by the earth,
to cease,
wear out/be worn out,
to be poor/reduced to poverty,
abject/base/despicable/vile,
disobedient or rebellious,
lowly/humble/submissive,
to be soft/loose/flabby/relaxed,
lack spirit or life.•
God used one word, but who give you the right to choose any of the above meanings of the word?
I believe 'lifeless' from the list of the above meanings is most appropriate for "Amattana" in the context of 4011. 'Lifeless' will not lead into the concept of possible reincarnation or rebirth.
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Lifeless can also be lacking in spirit, that one is weakminded.
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Peace Nonetheless.
So we have reached the following,quote;
God used one word, but who give you the right to choose any of the above meanings of the word?
I believe 'lifeless' from the list of the above meanings is most appropriate for "Amattana" in the context of 4011. 'Lifeless' will not lead into the concept of possible reincarnation or rebirth.
This means pick and choose regardless of any context or best meaning.
Anyone, in the same way, can claim as you did by picking a meaning at random( apart from lifeless) from the list and saying to you "who give you the right to choose lifeless?"
You are sticking with lifeless despite the evidence given to you. That is fine by me as long as you say that and we move on.
What can I say ?
This "my mind is made up" attitude is not a good way to study GOD s words.
However ,you are entitled to your choice.
Hope you read again GOD s words and reflect.
May GOD guide us to the best meaning.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Lifeless can also be lacking in spirit, that one is weakminded.
True, "lifeless" can have lots of meanings.
Note the various meaning of 'lifeless
• "Lifeless"
dead or apparently dead.
"his lifeless body was taken from the river"
synonyms dead, departed, perished, gone, no more, passed on/away, stiff, cold, (as) dead as a doornail; Morelacking vigor, vitality, or excitement.
"my hair always seems to look lifeless"
synonyms lackluster, spiritless, apathetic, torpid, lethargic; Moredevoid of living things.
"the moon is lifeless"
synonyms barren, sterile, bare, desolate, stark, arid, infertile, uncultivated, uninhabited; bleak, colorless, characterless, soulless
"a lifeless landscape"•
What is critical is one has to take the context into account.
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Peace Nonetheless.
So we have reached the following,quote;
God used one word, but who give you the right to choose any of the above meanings of the word?
I believe 'lifeless' from the list of the above meanings is most appropriate for "Amattana" in the context of 4011. 'Lifeless' will not lead into the concept of possible reincarnation or rebirth.
This means pick and choose regardless of any context or best meaning.
Anyone, in the same way, can claim as you did by picking a meaning at random( apart from lifeless) from the list and saying to you "who give you the right to choose lifeless?"
You are sticking with lifeless despite the evidence given to you. That is fine by me as long as you say that and we move on.
What can I say ?
This "my mind is made up" attitude is not a good way to study GOD s words.
However ,you are entitled to your choice.
Hope you read again GOD s words and reflect.
May GOD guide us to the best meaning.
GOD bless you.
Peace.I agree we move on but you do not seem to let go and imply I am rigid and stupid.
Note the Principle of Charity
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charityIn philosophy and rhetoric, the principle of charity requires interpreting a speaker's statements to be rational and, in the case of any argument, considering its best, strongest possible interpretation.
In its narrowest sense, the goal of this methodological principle is to avoid attributing irrationality, logical fallacies or falsehoods to the others' statements, when a coherent, rational interpretation of the statements is available.
According to Simon Blackburn "it constrains the interpreter to maximize the truth or rationality in the subject's sayings." -wikiMy rationale is to avoid others interpreting Islam with the possibility that Islam accept 'reincarnation' or 'rebirth' the term 'lifeless' is the most effective translation.
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Peace Nontheless.
This is not about principles of fallacies or charity or burdens of proofs...etc.
This is a simple what does 4011 say?
Let me summarise for the benefit of the readers, then leave it at thatIf you stay put on "Amattana" means lifeless( nothing existed before), then the second one must also mean the same- lifeless,nothing existed-
According to you these people never existed at all?
I say 4011 says a first life before the first "Amattana".
And of course these people are projected to the future in 4011 and had "two lives before"- "Ahyaytana Ithnataini" ( The first life and the human life) and are now asking for some respite .I will now also move on.
Thank you for the conversation.
GOD bless you.
Peace.