The White race are Jinn?
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Oh, thank you all that have made me aware that fire is a metaphore, I would never have guessed, just as who would have guessed that mud or earth or whatever could also be a metaphore. It is nice that people feel so absolutely sure about things like that.
But the question is that metaphore or not metaphore Iblees is just a case of being jinn, not the only possibility that there be jaann and that as far as I can verify all identifications of jinn as this or that that you are doing and whether metaphore or not are conjecture.
Salaam
i m not talking about ibless.. i m talking about the beings other than humans...
yeh i wanted to make you aware about one more thing... about humans.. interestingly and fortunately you have labotratory in which you can experiment the human particles with the particles of earth and you will find out both have same properties... so its not a methaphor...
about jinns/invisible beings/energy beings/smoklessfire beings you cannot do experiment on them ,well when you do one let me know what you have find in them . properties of fire , or an action to a reaction that cause a form of energy like wood catch a fire by a reaction.. ! but make sure one thing find a kind of fire in which reaction will not cause a smoke otherwise its discarded ... so let me guess niether you will manage to find/understand the smokeless fire nor you will b able to do experiment on any jinny... you are blocked from both sides ..
so fire here is perfectly a methphor... but human and the addressed particle is not methphor... u can always test it... yeah
so as far i think the fire is a methphor or the availaible form of energy at that time so God use that word to make some people understand... people need to understannd what is the defination of methphor...
when u cant see anything then language borrow a word to make you understand ... hence fire methphor perfectly fit with jinns...
if the electricity or plasma were discovered at the time of revelation then probably God make you understand by a methaphor plasma... or electric beings rotfl
ahh i have another understanding according to your point of view... the concealed things are jinns... so gravity vaccum, kinetic energy ,potential energy, magnetic field all are also a form/kind of jinnies... unfortunately all these things were also not discovered at the time of revelation so God missed to use that word too....
But the author of quran is very intelligent he use the easy language for people to understand ...
same like in general language we use ladies and genetleman... instead of using ladies ,genetleman and transgenders...
does it mean transgender dosent exist or God was unaware about the third sex... nope
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Fire is not a metaphor. When it's written fire, literally, it's fire. So if it's said the rejecters will burn, then they will burn.
If we use Quran, I'm sure we will understand what the Jinn are, without using metaphores.
Salam
Fire is only a visual phenomenon of another process. Heat is another way of seeing it and heat and flammability determines when the matter will "burn" which is when a matter is disintegrating. But it is the heat which accomplishes it all.
And heat could be regarded as energy which is being discharged. The nuur word is meaning something like "energy". And all living beings in the world are just constructed from energy or whatever to call the phenomenon forming the atoms of the universe which in return make the molecules which we can observe in our world through various methods depending on substance.
What I wanted to say, nothing can be made of fire and what causes the fire is something building up energy so much that its heat starts a kind of chain reaction fueled by such as oxygen. The "burning" is actually on atomic (even subatomic) level while we perceive it as a flame. Fire is not an element which was the common belief many centuries ago and is only a visual effect of a process going on in a worldly substance. The flame going up is particles including heat coloring the environment.
What Quran means with fire is to have to endure being a being of energy continually and feel this energy ("fire" forever unless they find a way to stop it. That is the non-distorted version before Pagan-minded clergymen added their bias.
Be well
Amenuel -
Fire is only a visual phenomenon of another process. Heat is another way of seeing it and heat and flammability determines when the matter will "burn" which is when a matter is disintegrating. But it is the heat which accomplishes it all.
And heat could be regarded as energy which is being discharged. The nuur word is meaning something like "energy". And all living beings in the world are just constructed from energy or whatever to call the phenomenon forming the atoms of the universe which in return make the molecules which we can observe in our world through various methods depending on substance.
What I wanted to say, nothing can be made of fire and what causes the fire is something building up energy so much that its heat starts a kind of chain reaction fueled by such as oxygen. The "burning" is actually on atomic (even subatomic) level while we perceive it as a flame. Fire is not an element which was the common belief many centuries ago and is only a visual effect of a process going on in a worldly substance. The flame going up is particles including heat coloring the environment.
What Quran means with fire is to have to endure being a being of energy continually and feel this energy ("fire" forever unless they find a way to stop it. That is the non-distorted version before Pagan-minded clergymen added their bias.
Be well
AmenuelStill doesn't make sense.
There's another verse saying
8112
And when Hell is ignited.Earth will be burning. I don't know how Earth will be ignited; perhaps through when the sun expands as is said in Quran. So if something is ignited, it means there will be fire. Earth will become a fireball, and God will save those who believed and did good away from Hell (burning Earth) and to His Paradise.
It's not a metaphor!
Salam
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The Qur'an states that Iblees is of the mala'ika, and Iblees says of himself that he is made of fire.
As far as I can remember no other jinn is mentionned as being made of fire.
Again, jaann (plural of jinn) are not a particular creation but a trait, a feature, a characteristic.
Most of the mentions of jinn appear together with the mention of 'ins and are presented as something akin or parallel.
The basic meaning of j-n-n- is to conceal
The basic meaning of a-n-s is to be sociable.
So from there we might infer that both may be people, the ins of them associate visibly and the jinn do not associate visibly. If we translate that to the spiritual or religious sphere, might be the jinn are beievers that do not make it obvious, that do not associate for rituals and the the ins those tho do or show their "intimate being openly".
May be people who do not worship apparently or in collectivities and people who do.
Salaam
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When does Quran state that ebless is of the maleika? I have never read about it in any sectarian translation, not even Free-minds own one.
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Jinn as a root, Jiim-Nun-Nun, refers to the cover of something, e.g. someone's clothing, armor etc, but most importantly it is the bodily overall.
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When does Quran state that ebless is of the maleika? I have never read about it in any sectarian translation, not even Free-minds own one.
2.34
2.34 And when We told the angels, "Prostrate yourselves before Adam!" -they all prostrated themselves, save Iblis, who refused and gloried in his arrogance and thus he became one of those who deny the truth. (34)
Salaam
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If they are in Human Form, my question would be? Do they know they are jinn? Or have they lost that ability? I don't buy into the race argument, it only leads to divisions, when we are supposed to be united. peace
Why would it have to cause divisions if a certain race were to be identified as jinn?
I don't understand the division argument.
Being different doesn't bring disunity, that is why we have different languages and colors of skin. It is so that we can know one another.
Also Allah said that mankind will never cease to differ, whether it is in regards to accepting the Truth or physically, socially, culturally...By the way I am not expressing favor towards any side of the argument being proposed, I just want to understand why you think that if whites were jinn, it would reinforce disunity.
Allah made us all different already, from malaika to jinn to human to trees, plants and animals all different.
We are only to be grateful to what we are given and be respectful of all -
2.34
2.34 And when We told the angels, "Prostrate yourselves before Adam!" -they all prostrated themselves, save Iblis, who refused and gloried in his arrogance and thus he became one of those who deny the truth. (34)
Salaam
quran never claim anytime that ibless was one of the malika...
quran once claim he was one of the jinn...here
1850 And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Satan(ibless). He was of the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord.
which by default make him disqualified from the catagory of angels...
let say the mention of ibless is in quran about 10 times (approx)
out of which 9 times quran did not say either he was jinn or angel...so we again need to look for the single verse in which God catagorised him as jinn...
God bless you all..
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quran never claim anytime that ibless was one of the malika...
quran once claim he was one of the jinn...here
1850 And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Satan(ibless). He was of the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord.
which by default make him disqualified from the catagory of angels...
let say the mention of ibless is in quran about 10 times (approx)
out of which 9 times quran did not say either he was jinn or angel...so we again need to look for the single verse in which God catagorised him as jinn...
God bless you all..
Does the red word not include him?
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Does the red word not include him?
well that red word only apply to the one who did not obey the order of God.
look from this angle
1850 And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Satan(ibless). He was of the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord.
(RED first part) all angels obey the order of lord ..
(GREEN second part started from) except one being further link connect the being with his nature he was jinn at this point it give the explaination of last part and he was the only who disobeyed.. at the play...God knows best...
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quran never claim anytime that ibless was one of the malika...
quran once claim he was one of the jinn...here
1850 And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Satan(ibless). He was of the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord.
which by default make him disqualified from the catagory of angels...
let say the mention of ibless is in quran about 10 times (approx)
out of which 9 times quran did not say either he was jinn or angel...so we again need to look for the single verse in which God catagorised him as jinn...
God bless you all..
Qur'an Arabic grammar is dead, long live Imrankhawaja
Salaam
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1850's grammatical usage makes hard to justify Ebless being a member of the maleika. Even considered that traditional grammar is correct, it says "fsejeda ala ebless" i.e. "so submitted except ebless". You could infer ebless is of the maleika due to that, but it is not necessarily clear.
It says (in the sectarian interpretation) "God said to the maleika "be submitted to Adam" so submitted, but not ebless because he was...."
It is not at all clear ebless is of the maleika in the context but that is a deduction however not necessarily correct.
Furthermore, that would give maleika free will which they do not have according to the sectarian interpretation.
Ebless is a jinn and therefore of the nuur. Nuur is a kind of material projection meaning they have a material restriction. Humans, testable by science, also show humans are made of the nuur, by energetic derivative which is what may present itself as fire depending on the material composition and worldly projection through the generation of heat. When the material composition of atoms reach their molecular limitation they will begin to burn which shows fire in the spatial environment. And the human's body has geothermal heating within the body due to chemical reactions leading to innate heat production, therefore the nuur term may be used in reference to humans.
Humans may due to medical conditions begin to generate an increased temperature level exceeding standard temperature (36-37 degrees Celsius) and the same chemical reaction accomplishes this internally. This is a kind of minimal "burning" which does not lead to ignition of a full-fledged flame and the body consists of too much water for this.
So, humans are also made of the nuur, it has the ability to produce heat, the chemical reaction is a kind of burning from within. It is the chemical reactions in the world themselves which are the nuur, this sort of energy discharges. Basically anything in the world will release massive amounts of energy if the atom is cleaved. And it shows all the matter has a source of energy which presents itself as heat when in friction (reaction) and will in many cases burn like in fire, but in all cases the matter will disintegrate given a sufficient level of heat.
And the word ebless means be shattered or split from. It is not necessarily a name.
Ebless is us humans being shattered from God and who need to grow while under delusion. The arrogance (kabar) translation in chapter 2 example means be growing. We do not submit to Adam unless we fulfill the purpose of the Adam project. We have to grow and cease being deluded.
And Adam is a word with a meaning. It means something like be persistent. The angels have been successful as Adam while the ebless are not. We must submit to the purpose of Adam and succeed.
Be well
Amenuel -
It is Iblees that is made of fire (nar), not the jaann by themselves. Iblees compares himself with adam, who are made of mud (tin), in no other case of jaann being mentionned are they said to be made of fire (nar)
If Iblees is made of fire, it will not be because he is a jinn but because he is of the mala'ika.
But the nar is only mentionned concenring Iblees.
Again root j-n-n- means conceal, not naar or anything related to that. jinn depicts a trait not a class of beings, any being is a j-n-n he it is concealed.
I guess it is a "concealed with respect to what".
When 'ins and jinn are mentionned in parallel what it signals is that by comparison ins are concealed, whereas 'ins are open.
Salaam
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And, we know nothing can be made of fire as it is not an element, i.e. it is factually wrong, or naar is something other than fire.
Jinnun means the cover which conceals, not the act of concealing, e.g. the clothing of a person.
Ansan is the human soul and spirit while the Jinn is his bodily appearance in this world. Jinn is not an invisible entity but quite the opposite.
Be well
Amenuel -
Whatever Iblees is made of or if it is possible or not is not the question, the question is that HE SAYS he was made of fire (nar). So nobody, not I anyway is saying this is impossible or possible or what fire or nar is that. I am speaking about what the Qur'an says. Iblees is right or not as to what he was made of, but that is what he says.
And what the Qur'an says is that he was os the mala'ika.
Salaam
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Imo however you read it the target is malaikats and not malaikats and iblis.
This sentence does not make sense to me "The teacher said to the boys be quiet, they all were silent except Dora, she was a girl."ok if we have to go with your theory it also have some points to ponder..
for example all angels addressed ... and ibless is an angel too ,, but further explaination of his nature as jinn in the next part of verse make him .. malik + jinn.. was he 2 in 1 type being...
or he was same as jibraeel ?
or is there is anymore angle who ever disobeyed God...?
is it possible for such a higher being (maliks) /controllers/angels to disobey God ? when they are already submit their self to God as they know the truth about God.
are angles are also giving test like humans? (apparently it looks he committed racism,arrogance ,disobeying,jealousy,selfishness) its mean he was an angle with still in testing stage what usually jinn and humans have,,,?
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It means status is nothing permanent.
Malaikat is a role not a class of being, otherwise MOF could not be an angel one day.
From my understanding, we are given freedom to choose, that freedom remains when we developed ourselves, its not like we become robots. Iblis is from a class of beings called jin with a malaikat role. A jin is a class of beings that we as humans normally can't see. From the rendition, iblis who was a jin was also given the role of malaikat but when iblis objected he was stripped of his malaikat's role. Iblis assumed a new role as syaitan. Syaitan is a role played by jin and humans.