Questions about the soul
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Cannot reply in full now, but I am not contradicting myself about the soul and I think you misinterpreted my words.
Animals do not have an independent soul but share a "world soul" just as the autonomous human body and its system follows the same. An animal is therefore not a person but so to say part of a collective run by God.
God "put his spirit image" into man and that is what makes us i to what we are. This is what sectarians translate as "blew us into of His spirit". We are nafs's and only we can be such. Nas and nafs are two very related Arabic words.
What I say does not match with the sectarian interpretation of Quran. There is no reason to try. If it does this is a mere coincidence.
I suppose I might be misunderstood about what I wrote saying God is not good nor evil. This is more esoteric than I first thought since good can be different in meaning and can be subjective. Also Eysua's good needs a proper perspective. I gave examples how God is not all out good because God subjects mankind to an enormously deceptive trial. This is in relationship to the human perception of goodness. But God is also not evil. It is not possible to use any category.
I do not cherry pick elements from the Biblical Gospels, but I am aware it has interpretation errors too, just as Quran. The Gospel's interpretation is not as perverted as Quran though somehow. It is as if the Semitic clergymen were not able to hold their grip on the faith due to it being spread into ancient Greek. So therefore you have the Greek writings testifying to something more correct than the Semitic sects (modern) Judaism and Islam (Judaism 2.0).
Eysua did also challenge the Jewish fabricated religion a couple of millennia ago, but he was not able to eradicate their false doctrine obviously and much like in Star Wars there could be a book named "The Clergymen Strikes Back" with sectarian Islam and their way of understanding Quran. The clergymen saw that the blasphemous offshoots resulting after the coming of Eysua had to be stopped and they had gotten their hands on a book called Quran. They inserted their doctrine into it and used that to rally crowds of people to strike back at the religious elite in Shush and Persia who stood for the faith in the Middle East at that time. Opposite of traditional belief, the clergymen who were rebels did undermine the Persian empire under several years and got to find the trust of many people and so the takeover of Persian was quite peaceful although obviously some fighting occurred locally. But the Persian empire as a faction could barely put up any resistance falling apart from within.
So Islam is a "revenge of the clergymen". It turned lots of people refusing the sect on the run or killed them. This is a reason many East Asian faiths have some fragments of Abrahamic faiths in them. Many Persians fled East, they could for obvious reasons not flee West towards the Romans. There is proof available that many Persians emigrated East, you have religious subgroups remaining today in India. I have studied a little about them and they have an intriguing faith system reminding of ancient Judaism, not modern Judaism, a little bit like contemporary people of Eysua.
Zoroastrianism as we now today particularly in Iran is only a subgroup of the original faith. Their practices are almost identical to the oldest parts of the Old Testament, as interpreted. I have studied the similarity and compared it to Persian ancient remains while in the country and by reading historical sources. It is fascinating the people in Persia in ancient times practiced exactly the same thing as in the Old Testament. This has contributed to my confidence it is Persians depicted in the Old Testament. And there were contending religious groups. The religious elite was opposed to the fire altars but let them continue for basically the whole time. It is depicted in the Bible. The fire altars were positioned high up in hillsides of mountains and I have visited a few.
It was also quite obvious Persians were quite involved since one of their King of Kings (Shahansha) came to the rescue of the Babylonian prisoners who were Jewish. He helped them construct a new temple as well which is quite unlikely unless he believed in their faith wholeheartedly. The construction of such temple would have cost tremendous amounts of resources and labor at that time and a king would not have done it just like that.
One thing I have been doubtful about is the location of Jerusalem. I have not been able to prove it is not where it is supposed to have been, but there were magnificent enormous ruins of temples within the former Persian empire while in Israel there are none such ruins (although Israel was part of the Persian empire for most of its era).
For some reason there is the ruins of a building named after David in the Fars province of Iran high in the mountains close to Persepolis.
David had his own city while Solomon chose to create another.
I gave sought to be able to bind and prove any connection between ancient Persian Kings and Biblical lore. I am beyond certain that it is Persia the Old Testament speaks about but I cannot connect them due to language barriers. Also there was not always one uniting King and kingdom who reestablished the failing empire. It is like a puzzle.
The Old Testament also seems to speak of Persians as a distinct group besides Hebrews, yet they practice the exact same religion.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Peace Jafar
A good video discussing the question of "What are you?"
https//youtu.be/JQVmkDUkZT4-Your body is a country with millions of living things inside.. which one are 'you'?
-The maximum age of any cell within your body is 7 years, none of them will stay 'alive' if your age has reached more than 7 years old. As such it raise the question of "Where does memory / information being stored"? Certainly it's not within any of your brain cells.. or in any other cells..The video says only that most of the cell will be replaced.
I have heard the theory before. But I think its just a myth.
I think the braincell last all life and also i think if all was replaced it wouldnt be able to make tatoo.Of course you have the right not to believe in judgment day. Gospel and quran just tell something else. And that someone believed in it before could imo just a confirmation.
Me myself dont believe in any prediction. Everybody has a free will that cant be predicted I think.
So I cant see the conclusion you make that God should judge someone he already directed.
Dont you believe in justice after all. Is everything just without any concequence.God Bless
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Me myself dont believe in any prediction. Everybody has a free will that cant be predicted I think.
Dig further on such issue... and you shall realize that human 'will' is very easy to manipulate.. even by another human.. let alone by Him who control all of the universes...
There is no such thing that is "Unknown" or not under the control of the true God..Pagan think otherwise though.. their gods has enemies, there are things which is not within the control of a god (because it is being controlled by another god) and sometimes the human can launch rebellion against a god or a group of gods..
So I cant see the conclusion you make that God should judge someone he already directed.
Dont you believe in justice after all. Is everything just without any concequence.Oh there is indeed consequences.... action->reaction
As such the #1 tenet is do to others what you like others do unto you..
Every second is a 'judgement day'... -
Can you give an example of how the will is easily manipulated, Jafar.
The one who gets rid of bodily affection is not a predictable person. But you must not confuse predictability with "the most logical action to perform". The person who parts from the bodily for the spirit is an independent one and they are in control of what they face and their reaction is decided by their person alone.
It is the body which makes us into predictable persons because they are "programmed" to make us act in certain ways much like animals. Many of our actions become compulsory when we cannot resist it and you could take the sex drive as an example, which many people have trouble controlling in the world.
Those instincts also may control how we think and behave around people. In that regard we may be slaves. But being in control, it is possible to be in opposition to the body's desires.
And once you start to assume control of yourself you realize in how primitive a world you reside, with the dead burying their dead as a certain Mr. Eysua said most sarcastically. That day you feel like the most lonely person in the world being in an environment with a lot of victims. And by that moment you realize you got to do something and spread some light in the darkness. If you do not bring light people err around blind in the darkness chasing their meaningless lives that anyway end in some years.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Can you give an example of how the will is easily manipulated, Jafar.
Hint
Propaganda, Advertising
One reside in the domain of politics/religion the other in business.Study them plus Human / Social Psychology.. and you will understand on how easy it is to manipulate the will of human.
And I think I have posted a paper on this forum before on experiment about Human Internal Conscience vs External Authority where External Authority win 98% of the time to drive the will of a group of human... although it goes against human internal conscience..
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
Again I don't want to spread any 'dogmatic' idea..(thus I will then creating yet another religion)
Feel free to research it yourselves and make your own conclusion.. -
Peace Jafar
I agrre with you that the will is easily manipulated. But that just shows that its there, and what happend isnt predicted by anyone.
The experiment you refere to shows that we are under great influence of authority. But aint that just why God also using his authority to send us some instructions.
We are after all interacting with our surroundings. A lot of our behavior are affected by social control. But again we have our free will.Total free will wouldnt create any civilisation Im sure. -
Hint
Propaganda, Advertising
One reside in the domain of politics/religion the other in business.Study them plus Human / Social Psychology.. and you will understand on how easy it is to manipulate the will of human.
And I think I have posted a paper on this forum before on experiment about Human Internal Conscience vs External Authority where External Authority win 98% of the time to drive the will of a group of human... although it goes against human internal conscience..
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
Again I don't want to spread any 'dogmatic' idea..(thus I will then creating yet another religion)
Feel free to research it yourselves and make your own conclusion..That does not work on a person who is not affected by the instinct. You cannot manipulate the will of a controlled being. It is the instinct which makes people weakening in their so-called 'free will'.
Psychology and sociology is good at explaining behavior in instinctive beings who give in to their bodily self, but it can never explain a person who broke free of its shackles.
I primarily use the science of psychology to better understand people. And I understood why I was so alienated in life because I was born with a strong spirit.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Peace Jafar
I agrre with you that the will is easily manipulated. But that just shows that its there, and what happend isnt predicted by anyone.
The experiment you refere to shows that we are under great influence of authority. But aint that just why God also using his authority to send us some instructions.
We are after all interacting with our surroundings. A lot of our behavior are affected by social control. But again we have our free will.Total free will wouldnt create any civilisation Im sure.I disagree with Jafar. While his argument is true for a person who is a Homo sapiens in being (son of Man), it is not applicable on a person who developed their spirit very much and refuse to listen to the bodily.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
I disagree with you, MoF, even I enjoyed reading your post about language in salat<>education process.
We don't have the knowledge if any of us is son of (hu)man (and human woman), because there're sons of el-jinnet and sons of el-jinnet and en-nas mixed.While I was awaking I saw a word "tesawwuf" and discovered something impressive about it.
We're (humans) forgetting that we're not alone on the plane (<> planet) Earth. -
Feel free to disagree with me.
Each of us is both halves, son of God and son of Man. But son of God is some part of you to develop, work on. It starts as an undeveloped seed and is placed in a challenging environment which is your very body.
There one must separate the spirit from the bodily.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Feel free to disagree with me.
Each of us is both halves, son of God and son of Man. But son of God is some part of you to develop, work on. It starts as an undeveloped seed and is placed in a challenging environment which is your very body.
There one must separate the spirit from the bodily.
Be well
Qarael AmenuelWe are servants of God...And how can women be "son of God". I disagree with this.
930
The Jews said ?Ezra is the son of God,? and the Nazarenes said
?The Messiah is the son of God.? Such is their utterances with
their mouths, they imitate the sayings of those who rejected
before them. God will fight them. They are deluded from the
truth!Ezra and Jesus were humans too.
Salam
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We are servants of God...And how can women be "son of God". I disagree with this.
930
The Jews said ?Ezra is the son of God,? and the Nazarenes said
?The Messiah is the son of God.? Such is their utterances with
their mouths, they imitate the sayings of those who rejected
before them. God will fight them. They are deluded from the
truth!Ezra and Jesus were humans too.
Salam
Children of God.
What is being human anyway? Without body, what are you then? Without body it is just your spiritual identity left.
And what is being servant? What kind of use does God have of servants?
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Children of God.
What is being human anyway? Without body, what are you then? Without body it is just your spiritual identity left.
And what is being servant? What kind of use does God have of servants?
Be well
Qarael AmenuelServants of God...
1123
?He does not beget, nor was He begotten,?1990
The heavens are about to shatter from it, and the earth crack
open, and the mountains fall and crumble.
1991
That they claimed that the Almighty had a son!
1992
And what need does the Almighty have to take a son?
1993
When all there is in the heavens and the earth will come to the
Almighty as servants. -
That does not work on a person who is not affected by the instinct. You cannot manipulate the will of a controlled being. It is the instinct which makes people weakening in their so-called 'free will'.
Psychology and sociology is good at explaining behavior in instinctive beings who give in to their bodily self, but it can never explain a person who broke free of its shackles.
I primarily use the science of psychology to better understand people. And I understood why I was so alienated in life because I was born with a strong spirit.
Be well
Qarael AmenuelPeace MoF
Maybe you are right about the so-called controlled being.
But do such a person excist, I mean can anybody know what to do right in each situation. Such person would be out of this world (=God) imo.
Anyway the situation is more down to earth. If a person has been manipulated and he realize so, or being told so. Then he wouldnt be easy to manipulate again in same circumstances
Experiments like the one Jafar referring to learns us not always just to follow the crowd/authority blind.
But generally we depend on the crowd to live in an comunity. And in some country you can rely on the authority. Otherwise you would be a social paria.
But that thing to depend on other are not working when some unreliable persons are involved.
So thats why we have our sceptic, and if we have time , we can put things to the test.
Here also comes the question of God inside. Like eg. in the society there is a lot of pressure to eat pig, and not pray at certain times.
But would you here be acting by your free will if you followed Gods instruction.Like Isa says Thy will be done not mine. So even he didn?t wanted to be controlled by his own will all the time ( atleast thats what the Gospel says)
So just to think you always act by free will is an illusion. Or maybe you are one in a trillion
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Peace Jafar
I agrre with you that the will is easily manipulated. But that just shows that its there, and what happend isnt predicted by anyone.
The experiment you refere to shows that we are under great influence of authority. But aint that just why God also using his authority to send us some instructions.
We are after all interacting with our surroundings. A lot of our behavior are affected by social control. But again we have our free will.Total free will wouldnt create any civilisation Im sure.The best 'manipulator' are those (or He) who able to manipulate while the subject do not realize that he was being manipulated.
The best 'controller' are those (or He) who able to control while the subject do not realize that he was being controlled.I realized this while reading a book written and authored by human (and not God), the book who do not threatened any of it's reader with eternal damnation and torture if they disagree with any of it's content... yet nearly all the idea written inside seems to be so true.
For 'something' which knows all things and none is unknown. it will 'control and direct' all thing..
Time and space is not a barrier for it..God does not 'send instruction'.. in a manner as if a human king send out it's decree... and some subject obey while some other disobey / rebelled.
God control everything, all of his plan was, is and will be executed by everything..When time doesn't exist.. the word 'prediction' will lose it's meaning..
When space doesn't exist.. the word 'send' will lose it's meaning.. -
Experiments like the one Jafar referring to learns us not always just to follow the crowd/authority blind.
I seriously do not understand what so special about that experiment.
Is it not a known fact that people make choices based on internal and external factors?
Of course people are ready to hurt others if there is something to gain for them or if they are forced, seriously I do not get the hype for that experiment.
And why the need for such an experiment? Do they not know about WW2, Rwanda, Drug wars, etc etc etc -
I seriously do not understand what so special about that experiment.
Is it not a known fact that people make choices based on internal and external factors?
Of course people are ready to hurt others if there is something to gain for them or if they are forced, seriously I do not get the hype for that experiment.
And why the need for such an experiment? Do they not know about WW2, Rwanda, Drug wars, etc etc etcSpecial or not special is subjective / relative.. so I wouldn't touch that topic..
Just like any other 'revelation', the experiment makes a great realization of the state / nature of things inside this universe.. in this case; a being called human.
The experiment was actually inspired by WW2 Holocaust.. does it really true that all Germans are evil and has no conscience? (Which was the general opinion) Or was it merely the case of 'suppressed conscience by authority'...Subsequent research was actually focusing on the 2% group... the group who dare to side with their own conscience (despite the odd) and resist / fight the authority.. What makes them do such thing? Is there a shared characteristics among those 2% group? Is it DNA related? etc...
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Peace MoF
Maybe you are right about the so-called controlled being.
But do such a person excist, I mean can anybody know what to do right in each situation. Such person would be out of this world (=God) imo.
Anyway the situation is more down to earth. If a person has been manipulated and he realize so, or being told so. Then he wouldnt be easy to manipulate again in same circumstances
Experiments like the one Jafar referring to learns us not always just to follow the crowd/authority blind.
But generally we depend on the crowd to live in an comunity. And in some country you can rely on the authority. Otherwise you would be a social paria.
But that thing to depend on other are not working when some unreliable persons are involved.
So thats why we have our sceptic, and if we have time , we can put things to the test.
Here also comes the question of God inside. Like eg. in the society there is a lot of pressure to eat pig, and not pray at certain times.
But would you here be acting by your free will if you followed Gods instruction.Like Isa says Thy will be done not mine. So even he didn?t wanted to be controlled by his own will all the time ( atleast thats what the Gospel says)
So just to think you always act by free will is an illusion. Or maybe you are one in a trillion
Regarding Eysua and not his will is because he is under the power of a standing prophecy and must follow it because he is "destined".
The purpose of our existence is to become perfected and become "God" although the term god is quite misleading. Your purpose is to become "Being" (Allah) and that is by being complete/whole (salam) like Rabb. Then you have your own independent identity as you were made to be and you truly exist rather than a slave to the human instinctive body. You are then not predictable and you make your own rulings based on "what you will". That is not possible without separating the spirit from the flesh however. That is when you know your (true) self. Your body is a "trick" imposed on you and your life depends on coming to realize you are confused between two you's, the body identity (son of man) and the spiritual identity (son of God). The son of man is enslaved and will be very weakminded because the running of the body is autonomous and being ruled by pleasure and instinct means you do not really make the life your own.
God obviously knew the corruption capabilities of the body is harsh, so anyone able to have so strong willpower as to reject the body's signals is a potential to fulfill the set criteria to succeed the purpose of this development environment.
There are many examples when it is strong to hold up against the instinct. When you are challenged the most and have extra much pressure on you it is meritorious to be able to resist.
Examples
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You are humiliated and your instinct drives you to seek to defeat in revenge, but your inner peace and control over judgment makes you capable of overriding the emotional input. Revenge feels good hormone-wise, but it has no real benefit beyond that. The most developed person would be relatively unaffected and can control the situation and surprise the community by a show of wise judgment through act and saying.
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You have a strong hormone level meaning you are very fertile and it means you have trouble controlling arousal, but your exemplary ruling of the body makes dissociations with triggering stimulus causing the mind to be too distracted to become aroused even at the sight of a fertile and healthy person of the opposite gender.
You are not meant to destroy the body by mistreating it during its interim, but be like the good master and his dog. If the master says "NO!" the dog obeys. The same way your spirit should be able to tell the body "No!" and it obeys. It knows the master is in command and does not rebel.
The body will come with very strong signals (emotions and impulses), but being unaffected by them is a show of development.
And those signals are from the human instinct and what is called Satan in ancient Semitic languages.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
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Regarding Eysua and not his will is because he is under the power of a standing prophecy and must follow it because he is "destined".
Why do you think Eysau is more destined than you and me. Was he in that term a lower human being not able to act by his own will?
I think its nothing to do with being destined. Then that should be the premise for all of us. I think the case is that we should submit to God, and not just do our own will.
Aint that the meaning of Islam to submit to a greater will. We see it also in the so called "Lords prayer" here are all told to pray for the submitment to God.The purpose of our existence is to become perfected and become "God" although the term god is quite misleading. Your purpose is to become "Being" (Allah) and that is by being complete/whole (salam) like Rabb. Then you have your own independent identity as you were made to be and you truly exist rather than a slave to the human instinctive body. You are then not predictable and you make your own rulings based on "what you will". That is not possible without separating the spirit from the flesh however. That is when you know your (true) self. Your body is a "trick" imposed on you and your life depends on coming to realize you are confused between two you's, the body identity (son of man) and the spiritual identity (son of God). The son of man is enslaved and will be very weakminded because the running of the body is autonomous and being ruled by pleasure and instinct means you do not really make the life your own.
God obviously knew the corruption capabilities of the body is harsh, so anyone able to have so strong willpower as to reject the body's signals is a potential to fulfill the set criteria to succeed the purpose of this development environment.
There are many examples when it is strong to hold up against the instinct. When you are challenged the most and have extra much pressure on you it is meritorious to be able to resist.
Examples
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You are humiliated and your instinct drives you to seek to defeat in revenge, but your inner peace and control over judgment makes you capable of overriding the emotional input. Revenge feels good hormone-wise, but it has no real benefit beyond that. The most developed person would be relatively unaffected and can control the situation and surprise the community by a show of wise judgment through act and saying.
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You have a strong hormone level meaning you are very fertile and it means you have trouble controlling arousal, but your exemplary ruling of the body makes dissociations with triggering stimulus causing the mind to be too distracted to become aroused even at the sight of a fertile and healthy person of the opposite gender.
You are not meant to destroy the body by mistreating it during its interim, but be like the good master and his dog. If the master says "NO!" the dog obeys. The same way your spirit should be able to tell the body "No!" and it obeys. It knows the master is in command and does not rebel.
The body will come with very strong signals (emotions and impulses), but being unaffected by them is a show of development.
And those signals are from the human instinct and what is called Satan in ancient Semitic languages.
Be well
Qarael AmenuelThe thought you bring forth is like a brick in your big picture. Or am I wrong?
Anyway your thoughts are quite sympathetic. And they remind me in some manner of the Freud?s view on the human psychology.
He just have three divisions id, ego and super ego.
In your version the ego and super ego are one I think
So do you have the aspect of the things given by the surroundings (Parents, education, self study, freinds etc)You say the criteria to emancipate is to have a strong willpower. But I think willpower in this case has nothing to do with emancipation in general.
Emancipation is much more than willpower. Just think of a child full of willpower screaming at his parent. He are used to get his will and thats why he have a strong willpower. But that dont mean that he in any manner is right in his purpose.
Anyway to get free from basic instinct you first have to acknowledge what you want to achieve. You have to learn what's wrong and right to put it simple.
That ain't just coming from yourselves, even though a child can have a great sense of justice.Right and wrong are something we are socialized into in general. And here comes the Creator plan with us in perspective.
We are given options to chose wrong and right based on what we acknowledged in life.
Can you depend on your own judgement, the society or on God?
In my opinion it should be a combination. But most of all you should submit to the will of God (Islam- Lords prayer).
Otherwise you would be misguided by any other source.Peace and all the best
Niels
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Eysua was chosen for a standing prophesy because of the impression he had made. I am also destined for something just like him, so he was not unique and I could also say on the matter "my will is not my own but of the one who sent me" and by that I mean I am destined.
In general we are all destined, i.e. we live through something we cannot control.
I am not propagating predestination and if you think this is what I am saying you misunderstand me. I mean a person is selected to fulfill something and such is not random.
The whole concept of submission is misconceived and it is not about submitting to anything in particular except good. The word meant to mean submission does not but means to be sound, soundness. What is submission anyway? And what are you supposed to do with your submission?
We are however submitted to the fate of Adam (Perseverance), this condition in which we are and what we have to do to persevere. In this condition we are shattered/broken off from our originator (God) and do not benefit from the control we would be able to possess in unity with God. This is a test how we fare in delusion, if we can grow and this while being deluded this body is our identity. We are like a disconnected platform possessing the same potential (runtime capacity) as the mainframe but without the benefits an uplink would give such as global control to features and at the same time we are exposed to a "virus" called Homo sapiens infecting our software which is intentional as part of the test.
I am not misguided however, it is more that I am able to channel from the record and I am using parables to try to explain more comprehensively.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel