New understanding on "AJURAHUNA" and chapter 33 n 60
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@bender
W salam and Thank you for welcoming me.Maybe it's an idea to make the arabic words
Are you making fun on my idea? Or I shouldn't use word "idea"? I would like to know how to qoute from others post.
W. Salam thanks for welcoming me. I m learning and biginner in Arabic its not my native language. But I will like if you reply your views on my post.
Salam n peace.
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Thanks Mahnoor for your reply. It is nice to know you are a beginner in learning Arabic.
And those verse which I mentioned as example 59 and 3339 both contain words which ends same as female plural ends.
59 contains words in which is written as same as plural form of feminine use to write.
3339 contain words In which is same as feminine form.
But in both verses above words use for both genders.= who convey the messages of Allah (means they continuously convey never stop like hypocrifes )
= those who do righteous deeds (continuously do rigtious deeds)
Please allow me to change your translation as under
= ......messages of Allah.....
= .....and They do the righteous deeds.....
and are female plurals and are used for
may refer to both - males and females.
Hope it helps. Salaam
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= ......messages of Allah.....
Sorry for my translation your made it correct.
= .....and They do the righteous deeds.....
" and they do the righteous deeds...." Means they continuously/keep doing the righteous deeds i wrote it in brackets to make clear my point.
If it used for both genders as feminine form then why not in verse 3335 this feminine form translated as for both genders.
= those who submitted their will to Allah
= those continuously/keep submitting their will to Allah and never become hypocrites) only ajar is for those people not for hypocrites.used for both genders
used for both genders
used for both genders
used for both genders
And so on. -
" and they did the righteous deeds...." Means they continuously/keep doing the righteous deeds i wrote it in brackets to make clear my point.
My bad please see the red correction. The verb is past tense so it cannot be translated as "they continuously/keep doing the righteous deeds".
If it used for both genders as feminine form then why not in verse 3335 this feminine form translated as for both genders.
= those who submitted their will to Allah
= those continuously/keep submitting their will to Allah and never become hypocrites) only ajar is for those people not for hypocrites.used for both genders
used for both genders
used for both genders
used for both genders
And so on.and are not used as feminine but they are feminine nouns. I feel you have not finished your Arabic lessons for nouns and pronouns otherwise you won't have any confusion.Please wait until you finish your basic Arabic lessons.
Salaam
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Salam and peace,
Are they not nouns? And
If they are nouns then why in verse 5 9 = (those who do righteous deeds), which is feminine noun, is for both genders?
Salaam Mahanoor
is plural for males or (for males and females when they are in a group) who do right deeds.
is a plural for females only who do right deeds. For example as in 434
....... ......
In 59
is the plural for good deeds.
So in 434 are the female actors
whereas in 59 are the actions which can be done by both males as well as females.
Hope it helps.
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Peace,
Aw i forgot to welcome you to the forum!
welcome
I get your point but i find it quite acrobatic to claim that the feminine plural ending could contain an imperfectiveness nuance which is strictly verbal in any language. Of course you could say we are talking here about active participles, therefore their verbal nature would permit the desinence to bring imperfectiveness and continuity nuances but even in this case the feminine meaning wouldn't be lost in any case, it would remain, so it would keep addressing femenine entities.
In 6010 all the verbs include the attached "hunna" and also there is an independent "hunna". If "ta" would be just a desinence for imperfectiveness, the pronoun would not be femenine because, simply, pronouns are deictic, they tend to address natural or conceptual gender and not grammar gender. The pronouns here would be masculine... Feminine better brings the nuance of abstract in arabic...
In addittion, a desinence cant mean two things at the same time (not in an excluding one eachother), so "ta" adding the nuance of continuty would have to be applicable in every single participle in Quran (and not to mess it up with nouns). I find it hard to implement.Finally i wanted to point out the same points Novice pointed.
In any case you have a great point and I agree why 434 is translated in a way and 1846 in anoother, but your explanation doesnt fit in other cases. Also take into account it is a particple (hybrid form between verb and adjective/ noun-adjective nature) and the verb in 1846 but not in 434 may be the key, otherwhise "who do righteous deeds" would be unnecessary reduntant, and Arabic has verbal forms for that emphatic nuance.
Have a great day sun
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Salam and peace,
whereas in 59 are the actions which can be done by both males as well as females.
This is what I m trying to say that
are the action of . Not only in 59 but also in 299 and 3335 and all verses in which this word is present.Verse 299
And those who believe and do righteous deeds - We will surely admit them among the righteous .
. ....... ......
The word in red is written in this form 434
In above line are written in same form then why only has translated as "righteous womens" why not other two? It seems to make AN NISA only for women they translated only as "rightious women" and made it feminine noun. But actually these three words are ACTIONS of AN NISA people.
Verse 1846 same word use as for both genders then why in 434 its feminine noun?
Wealth and children are adornment of the worldly life. But the enduring good deeds are better to your Lord for reward and better for hope.
In 1976 it used for both genders
my point is if add in the end it becomes action.
In chapter 33 Al Ahzaab is taking about hypocrites and hypocrites are those who don't continue their believe and say this is not what Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) promised us and keep malignity in their hearts. So the verse 3335 are for those who continue the actions as
Thanks
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The word in red is written in this form 434
In above line are written in same form then why only has translated as "righteous womens" why not other two? It seems to make AN NISA only for women they translated only as "rightious women" and made it feminine noun. But actually these three words are ACTIONS of AN NISA people.
Salaam Mahanoor
No they are not written in same form, first word has "Fa and Al" in the beginning whereas next two don't. Al is only put before nouns.
.... .....So in this verse is a noun meaning "...so THE righteous women..."
Hope you can see the difference.
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Salam and peace virginia,
Thanks for your explanation and effort and for welcoming me here.
. Also take into account it is a particple (hybrid form between verb and adjective/ noun-adjective nature) and the verb in 1846 but not in 434 may be the key,
So translaters just did efforts to make verb to noun and noun to verb to justify those verses in which they suddenly changed the audience as women. But if we read whole chapter we get confuse why there is a sudden change.
As novice said "Al " is only put before nouns. So in 1846 and 19 76 is present with Al which is making it noun not verb. But these two verses have translated for both genders. Why they didn't make this verse for women since they have feminine noun . Because there are no such words like ANKIHU, NISA, AZWAJ and AJUR. They need to look for the right meaning for these words which make sense.
. In any case you have a great point and I agree why 434 is translated in a way and 1846 in anoother, but your explanation doesnt fit in other cases.
Can u give me some example please.
And what are your views on my understanding on AJAR matter?
. Assalam o alikum and peace to all,
I want to share the idea on the topic on which many people talked before and the topic is AJARUN the word mention in the Quran and translated as DOWRY.
I watched the move "The Message", in that movie when non believers use to beat those who accepted Islam in initial stage, Muslims use to pay some gold coins in the exchange of those new believers to protect them from getting more hurt by pagans. And keep them with themselves.This giving more sense rather than Dowry. Dowry looks like paying money to have physical relation and now i know many people justify dowry by making it modest with words and sayings that it is a GIFT and RIGHT of a wife but sorry to say it looks same what people do when they go to prostitute.
peace
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Salam and peace novice,
.
No they are not written in same form, first word has "Fa and Al" in the beginning whereas next two don't. Al is only put before nouns.
.... .....So in this verse is a noun meaning "...so THE righteous women..."
In 1846 and 1976 also have the same word with "Al" which is making it noun. Is it mean these verses are only for females because it is feminine noun? BUT here this feminine noun use for both genders. And in 434 they made it feminine noun to promote the concept that mans are superior and womans are inferior.
Peace.
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And in 434 they made it feminine noun to promote the concept that mans are superior and womans are inferior.
Peace, it's gender neutral word/s following qnittun/subordinate f/p (i.e. to god) applies to women...
3335 ? wal-qnitna/and the subordinate (m/p) wal-qnitti/and the subordinate (f/p)
434 the menfolk steadfast being over the womenfolk in what favor the god some them over others and in what spends they of from wealth theirs fal-litu/so the righteous qnittun/subordinate (f/p) guardians (f/p) to the unseen (i.e. private affairs) in what safeguard the god and the ones whom (f/p) thou fearing recalcitrant theirs (f/p) so admonish ye them (f/p) wa-uhjuruhunna/and leaves ye them (f/p) in the rest place wa-iribuhunna/and shuns ye them (f/p) so if obeys they you so not seek ye of over them (f/p) way of surely the god be height of great of
Arabic-English Lexicon by Edward William Lane
signifies also he was silent; he spoke not or he lowered his eyes, looking towards the ground -
In 1846 and 1976 also have the same word with "Al" which is making it noun. Is it mean these verses are only for females because it is feminine noun?
Salaam Mahanoor
A feminine noun can be used for both genders, males as well as females, and also for both and
a masculine noun can be used for both genders, males as well as females, and also for both.Do you think a feminine noun can only be used for females?
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Salaam MahanoorA feminine noun can be used for both genders, males as well as females, and also for both and
a masculine noun can be used for both genders, males as well as females, and also for both.Do you think a feminine noun can only be used for females?
Salam novice,
I m not only think but I m saying this from the beginning that these words have used as verbs and for both genders in 3335 and 6010 and many other verses. But you are saying that they are feminine noun with "Al" so they used in above verses for females only.
If now you will say that these verses have ,feminine pronoun which making those feminine verbs/noun as human females ,then this has used in 39 38 for those to whom disbelievers worship.
3938
And if you asked them, "Who created the heavens and the earth?" they would surely say, " Allah ." Say, "Then have you considered what you invoke besides Allah ? If Allah intended me harm, are they removers of His harm; or if He intended me mercy, are they withholders of His mercy?" Say, "Sufficient for me is Allah ; upon Him rely the ...
This hunna used for deities. And in other verses its use for non humans.
Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is in them; and He has power over all things.
(120)
-> See, ? ?, ? Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is in them?
37
It is He who has sent down to you, , the Book; in it are verses precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific....
So,
3335
6010
And
They are feminine nouns and verbs in nature only but used as for both genders not only for females specifically. If in other places in Quran they didn't made feminine nouns and verses complicated why they made those verses, in chapter nisa , AlAhzab , all mumtehna ,noor and many others, made complicated and made females as a property type thing.
Thanks. Hope I have explained my point well to you.
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Salam novice,
I m not only think but I m saying this from the beginning that these words have used as verbs and for both genders in 3335 and 6010 and many other verses. But you are saying that they are feminine noun with "Al" so they used in above verses for females only.
If now you will say that these verses have ,feminine pronoun which making those feminine verbs/noun as human females ,then this has used in 39 38 for those to whom disbelievers worship.
3938
And if you asked them, "Who created the heavens and the earth?" they would surely say, " Allah ." Say, "Then have you considered what you invoke besides Allah ? If Allah intended me harm, are they removers of His harm; or if He intended me mercy, are they withholders of His mercy?" Say, "Sufficient for me is Allah ; upon Him rely the ...
This hunna used for deities. And in other verses its use for non humans.
Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is in them; and He has power over all things.
(120)
-> See, ? ?, ? Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is in them?
37
It is He who has sent down to you, , the Book; in it are verses precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific....
So,
3335
6010
And
They are feminine nouns and verbs in nature only but used as for both genders not only for females specifically. If in other places in Quran they didn't made feminine nouns and verses complicated why they made those verses, in chapter nisa , AlAhzab , all mumtehna ,noor and many others, made complicated and made females as a property type thing.
Thanks. Hope I have explained my point well to you.
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I rally dont see what you are proposing.
el muhsant are feminine al right and I can't think to what you are referring to as they comprising males.
Neither I can follow were youd erive from it that thhe muhsanaat are anybodies property. That is precisely what they are not.
Salaam
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Salam novice,
Haha don't u want to talk on this topic further?
Salaam Mahanoor
Its not like that. I explained what I know about usage of nouns so nothing more to contribute from my side. If you have any question about what I wrote please let me know and I will try to explain further.
Regards