5:97

Wakas

peace all,

Whilst this is taken from my study of BYT, it was not my observation, but since it was a very good one, I felt it needed highlighted

005.097
YUSUFALI Allah made the Ka'ba, the Sacred House, an asylum of security (qiyaman) for men, as also the Sacred Months, the animals for offerings, and the garlands that mark them That ye may know that Allah hath knowledge of what is in the heavens and on earth and that Allah is well acquainted with all things.

According to Y.A. al kabba has been made an asylum of security for 1) men 2) the Sacred Months 3) the animals for offerings 4) the garlands that mark them.

PICKTHAL Allah hath appointed the Ka'bah, the Sacred House, a standard (qiyaman) for mankind, and the Sacred Month and the offerings and the garlands. That is so that ye may know that Allah knoweth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth, and that Allah is Knower of all things.

According to P. al kabba has been appointed a standard for 1) mankind 2) the Sacred Month 3) the animals for offerings 4) the garlands.

SHAKIR Allah has made the Kaaba, the sacred house, a maintenance (qiyaman) for the people, and the sacred month and the offerings and the sacrificial animals with garlands; this is that you may know that Allah knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth, and that Allah is the Knower of all things.

According to S. al kabba has been made a maintenace for 1) people 2) the Sacred Month 3) the offerings 4) the sacrificial animals with garlands.

KHALIFA GOD has appointed the Ka`bah, the Sacred Masjid, to be a sanctuary (qiyaman) for the people, and also the Sacred Months, the offerings (to the Sacred Masjid), and the garlands marking them. You should know that GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and that GOD is Omniscient.

According to K. al kabba has been appointed a sanctuary for 1) people 2) the Sacred Months 3) the offerings 4) the garlands marking them.

points to consider

Does the translation make sense?
Does the current "kabba" fulfill the criteria of the verse/sign?
Why is there significant variation in the meaning of "qiyaman"?
How is qiyaman (root QWM) used in al quran?*
What are the alternatives?

see PRL for root meanings and occurrences.

WAKAS The God has made the prominent/eminent1 the House/Establishment of the Restriction2, as a standing/management3 for the people, and the month of restrictions, and the guidance/offering4, and the administration5; that is so you know that God knows what is in heavens and what is in earth, and that God is aware of all things.

According to W. al bayt al haram has been made a management for 1) people 2) the month of restrictions 3) the guidance/offering 4) the administration.

1 - al kaAAbata, root Kaf-Ayn-Ba
2 - al bayta al harama literally means "the house the restriction", and it clearly suggests a governing structure (i.e. law/decision-making house), similar to "House of Representatives" (U.S.A) or "House of Commons" (U.K).
3 - qiyaman, (n. m.) root Qaf-Alif/Waw-Miim (core meaning of "to make straight"). The only other occurrence of the exact same derivative "qiyaman" appears in 45, in which it means "to manage". This fits perfectly with the root meanings. Can the traditional-view of "al kabba" be a standing/management for the people, month of restrictions, the guidance/offering, and the administration/garlands? No! It is an inanimate object and cannot make any decisions, therefore "qiyaman" must refer to a decision-making vehicle, which is exactly what "al bayt al haram" is.
4 - al hadya, root ha-Dal-Ya.
5 - qala-ida, root Qaf-Lam-Dal. Consider requirements of HJJ, thus infrastructure/control involved in such an event.

see PRL for root meanings and occurrences.

Wakas

hlatif

Salaam Wakas,

You said

The only other occurrence of the exact same derivative "qiyaman" appears in 45, in which it means "to manage".

This sounds incorrect to me. Here is what I saw

3191 Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing (Qiyaman), sitting, and lying down on their sides
45 To those weak of understanding Make not over your property, which Allah hath standing (Qiyaman) for you
4103 When ye pass (Congregational) prayers, celebrate Allah's praises, standing (Qiyaman), sitting down, or lying down on your sides

Then QIYAMUN where the un part is grammaticaland it means exactly the same as QIYAMAN are here

3968 The Trumpet will (just) be sounded, when all that are in the heavens and on earth will swoon, except such as it will please Allah (to exempt). Then will a second one be sounded, when, behold, they will be standing (Qiyamun) and looking on!

And here is Qiyamin which is also another grammatical thing but the same as QIYAMAN
5145 Then they could not be standing(Qiyamin), nor could they help themselves

I would want to add that your translation of 45 as manage is highly debatable.

Take care and have a good evening

Hussein

Wakas

peace Hussein,

You could have also made bold "exact same" as well as "only".

In CofQ it separates the occurrences

qawim n.m. (adj.; comp. aqwam; pl. qiyam) -

qiyam n.m. -

Furthermore, DofQ

qiyamun plu. of qa'imum standing; v.n. of qama to stand; n.livelihood; maintenace. qiyaman (acc.) source of maintenance.

Both seemed to separate them, thus implying they are not identical.

In any case, clearly, in 45 its not on about a physical stand, just like 597, can we agree to that?

Wakas

Dictionary of Quran, and Concordance of Quran

hlatif

Salaam Wakas,

Please forgive me but I did not understand all the abbreviations related to how the cofQ worked. If you explain it in more simple terms, then I may be able to give an answer. Basically, I do not see all the differences that you are talking about.

However you asked this

In any case, clearly, in 45 its not on about a physical stand, just like 597, can we agree to that?

I can easily understand 45 as an abstract meaning of standing and 597 as physical and abstract standing at the same time.

Salaam and take care

Hussein

Wakas

peace Hussein,

Sorry, I should have clarified.

n = noun
m = masculine
v = verb
acc. = accusative
adj. = adjective
comp. = compound
pl. = plural

Whilst it could be understood as both in 597, are you saying that in 597 al quran wants people to use both meanings simultaneously in order to understand 597? If you choose one meaning, what is your preference?

Wakas

Wakas

peace All,

"qiyaman" must refer to a decision-making vehicle

Is there anything grammatically to differentiate what 'qiyaman' refers to? Or if the object of the sign is 'al kabba'? The reason I ask is if it refers to al kabba, al kabba must be the decision-making vehicle, thus it would mean 'base'.

Wakas

wildguest1956

Peace Wakas,

I think you have made a good point here.

Do you plan to write an article to develop more thoroughly you idea ?

Peace

Wakas

peace,

Thanks JM. I also feel its a good point but my question has not been clarified by any of the members on the site who know about Arabic grammar more thoroughly!

Is there anything grammatically to differentiate what 'qiyaman' refers to? Or if the object of the sign is 'al kabba'? The reason I ask is if it refers to al kabba, al kabba must be the decision-making vehicle, thus it would mean 'base'.

I did have an article on bayt and associated concepts but it got deleted with a computer hard drive problem I had. It was only a third done. Most of the points I came across I have posted on this forum (I think).

The study I do is not that complicated. I just check every occurrence, extract all information I can from it, attack it from every angle I can conceive and see what classical arabic meaning(s) holds. Its actually very simple but takes a lot of time! Hence developing tools so others can do the same

http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

Samia

Salaam Wakas, all

Here is what lisaanul3arab says on the ntery of "qiyaam", with specific reference to verse 45

. .

To organize; manage

As for the following verse

005.097
YUSUFALI Allah made the Ka'ba, the Sacred House, an asylum of security (qiyaman) for men, as also the Sacred Months, the animals for offerings, and the garlands that mark them That ye may know that Allah hath knowledge of what is in the heavens and on earth and that Allah is well acquainted with all things.

"Allah made the ka'aba , (which is ) the sacred house a qiyaaman for people. (He also made) the sacred months, the animals for offering and the garlands that mark them (qiyaaman)

Words in parantheses are addition from me to clarify the grammatical construction. The verb " to make \ " usually takes two direct objects, and when it does, the second has to be indefinite. Since the sacred months, the animals and the garlands are all definite, they have to be first direct object that requires a second direct object. The only direct object we have in this verse is "qiyaaman".

Wakas

peace sister Samia,

Thanks for the clarification.

My sources seemed to suggest 45 and 597 were the only two the same for this form of "qiyam". Is that true?

progod

Peace,

My take on Al-Ka'bata here is one of its meanings from Al-Ka&bu meaning Honor/Glory. Taking into consideration the intensive feminine as in khaleef and khaleefat, or allaam and allaamat al-ka&bata naturally means true/great honor/glory. Now in this verse you will note that al-ka&bata is in mansoob. Over and Over again in the Quran the mansoob is used in place of prepositions. so ja&ala allahu al-ka&bata is God put in great/true honor al-baita al-haraama (the sacred houses i.e. sanctuaries). (I understand the same meaning for Al-ka&bati in 595 the gift reaches true honor is an expression for 'a truly honorable gift). And all this is in the context of Hajj. So my take on this is that God is telling us that God has made the sacred houses to which we make pilgrimage truly honorable. I have understood this passage in this way for some time now, and when reading the Arabic of the Quran you will see how mansoob can replace the use of prepositions. I will look for some Quranic examples that will make this obvious to you all.

Godbless,
Anwar